Tip.It Times Presents: Anything Goes

[Doxy8]

If you dont wanna die and lose all ur stuff, go to the duel arena you can die w/o losing anything

[alora229]

What about those pkers who try to kill you when it's obvious you're not there to fight but for another reason, like doing treasure trails. I don't think these players are "honorable"!

[Wesleyao]

Awsome Article. So true but it is still a little unfair to ppl who haven't done desert treasure(or can't for that matter) to be ancients in wildy. Also Getting 85 mage isn't that easy.....i've spent over 20m in runes and i'm only level 70.

[starev91]

All Jagex does is protect the weak and the stupid, if you can't read that huge, sreen-filling sign that says "You are entering the wilderness" what reason have you to play runescape, what reason have you to exist, what reason do you have to come withing 1 foot of a computer? There is honor in winning any way you can and also honor in knowing when you can't.Everyone needs to die at least once so they know how it feels.

 

:boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo:

 

 

 

It's a game! What honor do you have from a game? You never see 99% of the people that play runescape in real life anyways. So why does it matter if you are honorable or not?

 

 

 

It's a game! What money and work do you have from a game? You never see 99% of the people that play runescape in real life anyways. So why does it matter if you steal their gold through scams?

 

 

 

That kind of attitude is one that a scammer would have, only slightly modified from yours. And you wonder why I quit...

[britrockdude]

Excellent article. Fantastic points about outsmarting. Thats what it's there for. If you can think quickly, you can prevent any of those things that people would call noob on. Maybe they just can't equal the quick wit of some.

[Kiara_Kat]

In all seriousness, an article detailing the other side of the issue should be done by someone if you're going to put a biased article...

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but simply because you don't agree with the article does not mean it's biased. It means that you don't agree with the author's opinion. He has an opnion, and so do you. Which one is correct? Both and neither. That's why they're called opinions. And if you feel that strongly about it, then why don't you write that article and submit it for publication? Remember, one of the Times' goals is to stimulate debate and discussion -- and this week, it certainly has. Mission accomplished.

 

 

 

And remember...

 

Tip.It Times Index Page[/url]":1wb30fj9]

 

The views expressed in these articles by The Editor or any author do not necessarily represent those of Tip.It or our staff.

 

 

 

And lastly, to those who think that posting in LARGE or bold text helps to get your point across...it doesn't. It just makes you look like you're shouting. And then nobody listens to anything you have to say. So if you want to post your opinon, go ahead. But please, do it in normal fonts, and say something constructive. Sorry, but the last time I looked, saying "the article sucks" or calling the author an idiot is NOT constructive.

 

 

 

Please everyone, stay on topic and no flaming. If you can't follow the rules, this topic will be locked.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

I love how this board is directed toward p2pers when the topic is posted on a board meant for a general f2p and p2p population. Aren't there ANY f2pers that object to this obviously flawed article? Anyone at ALL?

[0ne_time]

Yeah, I'm f2p aswell, and I find this article only says stuff about P2P. But I guess that's not the point. My point is that the goal of Pking is to have fun and become richer. Fun is not teleporting. I admit, some of the rules stated in your article are flawed, such as far-casting. Mages are MEANT to do that. I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with teleporting, on the other hand. Many of the times, people teleport ON SIGHT! Honestly, you cannot get more lame than that. When my friend and I PK together, we never tele on sight unless the group has more than 12 people (In all truth, I don't tele, I run, but for the purpose of this, I will call it teleporting). Some tele on sight, such as groups larger than us! We were outnumbered 2:1, but we were about 3 levels higher than them. Guess what, they teled on sight! That is dishonorable, and you deserve to be called a noob for that. We, on the other hand, always at least try to defeat the opposition, which is the goal of PKing, other than fun and riches. Many times, we have made groups larger than us lose against us. At least try to fight!

 

 

 

You say we PK'ers are afraid to fight anyone stronger than us? Then why do you defend tele'ing on sight? What is that but cowardice towards those stronger than you? Why do you defend people one-iteming? They are the ones who should be frowned down upon! They are the ones who are scared of losing all of their "precious pixels" as you say yourself towards PK'ers who believe in honor? By defending them, in a way, you are saying that we PK'ers are the ones who care the least about losing our items and the most about having fun. We are the ones that take expensive items to the wilderness. Or are we still pixel hoarders?

 

 

 

As far as F2P goes, there is no way to hold your opponent. Some people are VERY dishonorable. For example, at the Dark Warrior's Castle, which is a major DM'ing/fighting spot. Some people DM there, which are level 90-115. I DM there occasionally too. Well - I used to. But now? Never! There is no honor there! They call a deathmatch, and they bring their teammates. What do they do? They stop attacking me so their teammate can attack me and then they run. I'm sorry, but if you don't find this dishonorable, I will call you a noob. Call me ignorant, call me a moron. It doesn't change the fact. We had an agreement. You broke it. ( I'm talking the agreement as a DM and you as the DM'er). You deserve to be ridiculed. I would adhere to the rules of our fight, yet you would not. Now, do you honestly believe there is honor in that?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

One Time

 

 

 

EDIT: To make it more clear for everyone, the DM's in question were official, and both of the Dm'ers did agree on having a DM; it wasn't just one side thinking it was a DM, but both side's knowing it was a DM. Often, it is the person who offers to have the DM who brings his teammate along.

[djmans]

This article has logical point, yes. However, the writer fails to realise that it is enforced into human code that we should effectively have an honour system.

 

 

 

Its like saying, if you are in a fight (in an actually physical fight, due to some conflict etc ) , whats wrong with hitting the person you are fighting where it hurts, or if your a guy, whats wrong with hitting a girl?

 

 

 

Following the supposed "honour code" in the wildy leads to greater self fulfilment: it takes more skill to fight and time a ko than to pj and farcast. If items are the only thing your interested in, in rs, then fine, but having honour does win you respect.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

This article has logical point, yes. However, the writer fails to realise that it is enforced into human code that we should effectively have an honour system.

 

 

 

Its like saying, if you are in a fight (in an actually physical fight, due to some conflict etc ) , whats wrong with hitting your the person your fighting where it hurts, or if your a guy, whats wrong with hitting a girl?

 

 

 

Following the supposed "honour code" in the wildy leads to greater self fulfilment: it takes more skill to fight and time a ko than to pj and farcast. If items are the only thing your interested in, in rs, then fine, but having honour does win you respect.

 

 

 

Farcasting, I'd say not necessarily, since your opponent may have heavy range armor and a high magic level (which means a high magic defense- check the knowledge base). If you want to risk farcasting someone, you'd better be prepared to face them if they have such armor.

[LordoftheSquishies]

Yeah, I'm f2p aswell, and I find this article only says stuff about P2P. But I guess that's not the point. My point is that the goal of Pking is to have fun and become richer. Fun is not teleporting. I admit, some of the rules stated in your article are flawed, such as far-casting. Mages are MEANT to do that. I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with teleporting, on the other hand. Many of the times, people teleport ON SIGHT! Honestly, you cannot get more lame than that. When my friend and I PK together, we never tele on sight unless the group has more than 12 people (In all truth, I don't tele, I run, but for the purpose of this, I will call it teleporting). Some tele on sight, such as groups larger than us! We were outnumbered 2:1, but we were about 3 levels higher than them. Guess what, they teled on sight! That is dishonorable, and you deserve to be called a noob for that. We, on the other hand, always at least try to defeat the opposition, which is the goal of PKing, other than fun and riches. Many times, we have made groups larger than us lose against us. At least try to fight!

 

 

 

You say we PK'ers are afraid to fight anyone stronger than us? Then why do you defend tele'ing on sight? What is that but cowardice towards those stronger than you? Why do you defend people one-iteming? They are the ones who should be frowned down upon! They are the ones who are scared of losing all of their "precious pixels" as you say yourself towards PK'ers who believe in honor? By defending them, in a way, you are saying that we PK'ers are the ones who care the least about losing our items and the most about having fun. We are the ones that take expensive items to the wilderness. Or are we still pixel hoarders?

 

 

 

As far as F2P goes, there is no way to hold your opponent. Some people are VERY dishonorable. For example, at the Dark Warrior's Castle, which is a major DM'ing/fighting spot. Some people DM there, which are level 90-115. I DM there occasionally too. Well - I used to. But now? Never! There is no honor there! They call a deathmatch, and they bring their teammates. What do they do? They stop attacking me so their teammate can attack me and then they run. I'm sorry, but if you don't find this dishonorable, I will call you a noob. Call me ignorant, call me a moron. It doesn't change the fact. We had an agreement. You broke it. ( I'm talking the agreement as a DM and you as the DM'er). You deserve to be ridiculed. I would adhere to the rules of our fight, yet you would not. Now, do you honestly believe there is honor in that?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

One Time

 

 

 

They teled? lol! Guess you're just that scary... Can't say I'd blame them if they're skilling or drastically weak though (which they obviously weren't). Was the DM agreement officially stated though, or was it just assumed? Is there an agreement before these fights or is it a breach of honor if you go against what the other person expects? (These are honest questions. No point trying to be made like with my last few.)

[0ne_time]

It was officially stated. A DM is a deathmatch. A deathmatch involves no running, teleporting, or teaming. Yes, we also DO agree on that before we DM. So it is, in a way, an official DM.

[quitthegame]

 

I'm sorry, but simply because you don't agree with the article does not mean it's biased. It means that you don't agree with the author's opinion. He has an opnion, and so do you. Which one is correct? Both and neither. That's why they're called opinions.

 

 

 

That's a huge oversimplication isn't it Kiara? 80% of the article is obvious fact, that no one disputes. 15% of the article is personal preference, which isn't opinion. If I say I like chocolate ice cream, that's not an opinion, that's a fact about my preferences. Unless I'm lying :P . 5% of the article is an attempt to have an opinion, that fails. Unfortunately that 5% was the whole point of the article.

 

 

 

From dictionary.com: An opinion is a belief or judgment that falls short of absolute conviction, certainty, or positive knowledge; it is a conclusion that certain facts, ideas, etc., are probably true or likely to prove so.

 

 

 

If someone has an 'opinion' that 2 + 2 = 5, it's not really an opinion, it's a false belief. A necessary component for a belief to be an opinion is insufficient evidence to establish the truth of the matter with 100% certainty. In matters that are not mathematical, there usually isn't 100% certainty about anything, however if the statement contradicts itself one can be 100% sure the statement is false. In modern society, as moral relativism spreads across the land, the only way for many to refute someone else's moral judgement with certainty is to level charges of self-contradiction or hypocrisy. This has done very little except render these kind of charges very boring and ineffective, as people just drop their relativist standards lower instead of modifying their behavior. Still, when someone makes a self-contradictory argument, like that found in this week's Times, there's really no other sensible rebuttal, as boring as it might be.

 

 

 

And if you feel that strongly about it, then why don't you write that article and submit it for publication?

 

 

 

While I don't share starev's sentiments about bias in the original article, this does seem like a good topic for another article with a different viewpoint. But it's not like one can just take the opposite viewpoint-- the original article is basically "1 a certain subset of the pking world has made their own rules, 2 i don't like it, 3 and they should stop making their own rules because there are no rules in the wildy" The first part is so well known that it's redundant, the second part is irrelevant, and the third part is incoherent. What's the opposite viewpoint to that?

 

 

 

The article I would want to see on the subject of pking is an article that examines possible changes to the current system in the wildy and the effects they would have. Anything else is too likely to be either ranting or redundant, unless someone has a really brilliant idea. Sadly, good articles like that are harder than they look, and they look plenty hard from here.

 

 

 

Maybe an article on the history of the wildy could work also. I see so many people blame the difference in demographics for the wildy being less honorable and fun than before. But there are so many other factors, more expensive gear being added to the game, better training spots outside the wildy being added, a different distribution of levels in an older game, the rise of pking teams over solo pkers (which I see as a direct result of the first 3 things). People have such a tendency to blame predictable economic patterns on some imaginary moral degradation over time. When you consider all the changes Jagex has made outside the wildy, it seems obvious that it's due for an incredibly massive overhaul to keep up. For me, the wildy is an obsolete area where I go to do agility and clues, and I think that's due to a conscious choice by Jagex to supplant the wildy with minigames.

[LordoftheSquishies]

One_Time, tyvm for answering. The information really helped me understand what happened.

 

 

 

Flammacor, let's not split hairs here... The only difference between an opinion and a "fact about personal preference" is whether you say, "Ice cream is the bomb," or, "I think ice cream is the bomb." They both mean the same thing.

 

 

 

As for your example about the opinion of 2+2=5... that's a proven fact. Losing honor when you pray isn't. Winning when you pray against a pure who wants you to throw away 7 of your combat levels is. They can keep their ethics to themselves after I own them though. Having a noob follow you around saying you have no honor is similar to a protestor following you around after a rally. The latter results in a restraining order.

 

 

 

And I'm with you on the Wildy history article. Not an editorial, but sounds fun to read.

[quitthegame]

 

 

 

Flammacor, let's not split hairs here... The only difference between an opinion and a "fact about personal preference" is whether you say, "Ice cream is the bomb," or, "I think ice cream is the bomb." They both mean the same thing.

 

 

 

They do both mean the same thing, because the first is understood to mean the second in everyday conversation, so that's a very misleading example. So, they obviously are both not opinions, as they have the exact same meaning.

 

 

 

As for your example about the opinion of 2+2=5... that's a proven fact. Losing honor when you pray isn't. Winning when you pray against a pure who wants you to throw away 7 of your combat levels is. They can keep their ethics to themselves after I own them though. Having a noob follow you around saying you have no honor is similar to a protestor following you around after a rally. The latter results in a restraining order.

 

 

 

"Losing honor when you pray isn't." Yes, that's an opinion, but it's not an opinion expressly held by the author of the article, so if you were trying to give an example of that, you haven't succeeded. If you weren't trying to do that, then I don't really know what you were trying to do and it's not relevant to my post, so nvm. :)

[estarayella]

flammacor this article has contains facts and the authors opinion.

 

 

 

as a lingustics student at university i feel i can comfortably say that short of turning round and starting the entire article with "in my opinion" the author has made it pretty clear that the content of the article is based on his opinion.

 

 

 

the examples that LordoftheSquishies used about ice cream are actually both opinions unless delievered in very unusual circumstances.

 

 

 

and in fact if we are going to get really technical, personal preference and opinions are the same thing, just delivered in a different manner ( we had a huge debate last year over that).

 

 

 

i really think that, In My Opinion!, you should accept that you simply dont agree with the article content, rather than nitpick over the technicalities

[LordoftheSquishies]

confused... *begins splitting hairs to find the meaning of life*

[quitthegame]

 

as a lingustics student at university i feel i can comfortably say that short of turning round and starting the entire article with "in my opinion" the author has made it pretty clear that the content of the article is based on his opinion.

 

 

 

appeal to authority, a classical fallacy

 

 

 

the examples that LordoftheSquishies used about ice cream are actually both opinions unless delievered in very unusual circumstances.

 

 

 

Your total lack of proof or justification or logical argument underscores how wrong you are.

 

 

 

and in fact if we are going to get really technical, personal preference and opinions are the same thing, just delivered in a different manner ( we had a huge debate last year over that).

 

 

 

Considering how you eschew the use of references, or logical argumentation, I'm going to say that we are in fact NOT getting really technical.

 

 

 

i really think that, In My Opinion!, you should accept that you simply dont agree with the article content, rather than nitpick over the technicalities

 

 

 

That would be foolish of me, since I actually do agree with the 95% of the article that's the supporting information and personal preference, and merely disagree with the thesis statement... I don't however agree with you, in your nutty theory that a self contradiction in the thesis statement is a technicality.

[dorington]

it takes a while to get prayer up to 43 so i will use if you like it or not! I will also teleport as i have the magic level and runes and if i want to run i will! however im not disshonourable. If i say i wont run i wont, no matter what i would lose. I've done it before and will probably do it again. As for pkers pures are probably more disshonourable as it were than people who use prayer imo

[Tekilla]

TRUE! I have a pker acount myself and usually pk in lv20+ wilderness to make sure teleporting is impossible,always carry an entangle and i always bring food,i myself use prayer so?This is real PKING! You wanna kill?well be prepared to die as well,use nails and claws and dont follo any stinkin rule ppl set up cuz if you wanna win,you gotta do the BEST you CAN,not the BEST OTHER PEOPLE WANT TO LIMIT YOU TO.understood?so stop whining LAZY PKERS!and get real!

[Freemenik_Warrior]

I enjoyed the article though without much understanding never having pked and I never will.

 

 

 

Some of the debate though...what a load of pony!

 

 

 

A pker is a murderer - where is there any honour in that? [No, do not reply - that was rhetorical]

 

 

 

Some of the replies put me in mind of the Black Knight in Monty Python's 'Holy Grail' - they would reduce us all to skilless, weaponless, limbless bleeding idiots (oh, but with loads of loot). - Magic?-BAD; Prayer?-BAD; Agility?-BAD; Too much Strength?-BAD; Too much Defence?-BAD.

 

 

 

Yeah, this reply is biased - i h8 all pkers.

[djmans]

I agree with flammacor to a certain extent. The tip it article presents a view, but it is a biased one, albeit his opinion. A good article contains consideration of all points of view to make the reader allow to deduct his own conclusion.

[operation001]

Well said! Finaly somebody who says the right thing... :thumbsup:

[Geadas]

Very good article, i agree with the writer by hundred percent. Exactly, there are no rules in the wildereness, and the honor is only then u are bs'ing team members, who joined recently (this is againsts rules now). You can do whatever u want and use everything, it's all up to you. i really don't want to lose my rune scimitar only for some stupid reason of beeing honorable, if i don't use protect prayer. what's against all economics in playing.

[darkb0wzer]

There are certain things that abide to honor in the wild such as being in a deathmatch for one because when I fight someone with no ablility to escape death(not teleporting) I expect the other person to do the same there for it being a fair fight. Without this its sorta like fliping a coin saying heads I win tails you lose. Because if the person with no teleport runes on them loses the deathmatch they lose everything but if he wins and the other person teleports out he gets nothing :shame: