"God hates fags"

[shadow_00083]

Puredoom's "proof" for why god is real is because he gets a tingly sensation (or whatever you would want to call it) when he is in church listening to hymns.

 

 

 

Satanza proved him wrong because he gets the same feeling listening to Pink Floyd. Getting a feeling like that is not proof something is divine in nature.

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, if you offend easily I would not visit a topic that is essentially a religious debate. Your views will be questioned.

 

 

 

I know my views will be questioned, thats fine.

 

 

 

But what I don't like is him disrespecting everything I believe in.

 

 

 

If he doesn't believe in God, thats fine, you don't see me shouting at him saying he's going to hell or something.

 

 

 

ALL I want is for him to be mature, he can have all the views he wants, but if he is more respectful, I'll treat him with more respect.

[Nadril]

Puredoom's "proof" for why god is real is because he gets a tingly sensation (or whatever you would want to call it) when he is in church listening to hymns.

 

 

 

Satanza proved him wrong because he gets the same feeling listening to Pink Floyd. Getting a feeling like that is not proof something is divine in nature.

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, if you offend easily I would not visit a topic that is essentially a religious debate. Your views will be questioned.

 

 

 

I know my views will be questioned, thats fine.

 

 

 

But what I don't like is him disrespecting everything I believe in.

 

 

 

If he doesn't believe in God, thats fine, you don't see me shouting at him saying he's going to hell or something.

 

 

 

ALL I want is for him to be mature, he can have all the views he wants, but if he is more respectful, I'll treat him with more respect.

 

 

 

No but incessant whining about how you are so offended by a statement that wasn't even an attack on your religion may as well be the same thing.

[Tigra00]

I may say things in an angry tone (I'm not really angry, it just seems you morons don't get it, that's all), but I can think of nothing more immature than crying everytime someone says anything even remotely offensive. The one guy said a band member was God, and he cried over it. Are you kidding me? That's not even offensive to anyone. It's a figure of speech saying the dude is good at what he does...Perhaps the best, in his opinion.

 

 

 

Cry when someone says something actually offensive about God, so people don't think you're just a sniveling little dork that was spanked with a Bible all his life.

[LordoftheSquishies]

Ok, I popped my little head in here because the headline caught my attention, and quite frankly, I'm surprised this topic hasn't been locked between that and all the flaming... I'll take my hands off the keyboard temporarily so they don't catch on fire... Feel the burn.

 

 

 

In any case, I'm not going to get into the whole topic, because I have to do an English assignment that I've been running away from the past... heh heh. I only want to say one thing: Your relationship with God is a personal one. If it's anything like mine you won't change anything just knowing it. You won't change anything feeling it. Things will change when you believe it, and that took a heck of a lot for me. I was raised in a semi-Christian home and I'm now 15, 16 in a few months. I was a good kid... pudgy but good. Then real temptations started coming around 14. I crumpled like that lousy English assignment I've hid under the couch. I tried to change... failure. Tried again... failure. Copy and past that line a few hundred times and you have the story of my entire year. So that did a number on my self-esteem. Suicide seemed like a good idea... Making the world a better place as someone said a few posts ago? Well bawling like a baby I gave up control to God, absolutely sure the nicest thing he'd do for me right then was strike me with lightning and watch me broil in hell for all eternity. I deserved nothing better. But he didn't. I don't know how to describe it. It's not a "fuzzy" feeling like I've ever gotten before. I felt nothing at first. But that nothing was amazing. I stopped crying. There was nothing to cry about. I got up and went downstairs. I had nothing to be ashamed of. God became more real to me a few months ago than he had ever been in my entire life, despite how I was raised. Now I'm not gonna stick around for the comments. I could argue, but like I said, the intellectual battle isn't what matters here. You know my story, or at least a summary. Now I'll say one last thing:

 

 

 

With God you're all in or you're all out. There's no playing it safe and no reason to. Go all the way or go back to sleep.... Friggin English assignment.

 

 

 

Just looked at this... I said more than one thing. Deepest apologies. Friggin English assignment.

[Tetsuya]

I shiver when i hear the intro to shine on you crazy diamond. Syd Barrett is GOD!?!??!?!

 

 

 

Sorry but that was absolutely uncalled for and rude.

 

Somebody doesn't like Floyd. :lol:

[fear_skiddle]

ok ive only read the last page of posts, as its late and i cant be bothered, so forgive me if anything i said is a repeat/ slightly off topic

 

 

 

addressing the intial idea of God hating gays - My belief is that God hates no one, but hates sin. One being Gay is not a sin itself, but the practicing of homosexual acts is a sin. I get this from the Pope from Michealangelo's times. Michealangelo was gay, asked the pope for advice, and the pope said to pratice the gay lifestyle. I belive being gay is a sin, but so is taking the lords name in vain, and who am i to judge what sin is worse in God's eyes?

 

 

 

You all have discussed which religion is right. My understanding of the church's position is that, even if you are not a christian, you can still make it to heaven as long as you have lived a virtuious life. This is becuase a sin is only a sin if you know what you're doing is wrong, and if you were raised as a Muslim/Jew/Atheist/Buddhist etc. you will naturally believe that this is the right lifestyle

 

 

 

And as for yall who question God's existence, i can understand your doubt, but i would just like to share with you a few of the reasons many scientists belive in God and Evolution and the like

 

An object at rest will remain at rest, and object in motion will remain in motion, yet was everyhing infinently moving? Because static elements could not have touched and therefore reacted to create the big bang

 

 

 

Matter and Energy are neither created or destroyed, only changed forms. Where then, did the intial matter and energy come from? Was is always there, sitting in oblivion for an infinte time before the big bang?

 

 

 

With my limited knowledge of the universe, the only thing i can see being the cause is a Supreme Being - however, how involved in our day-to-day can easily be debateable

[Satenza]

Ok, but where does the jump from what caused the big bang to a SPECIFIC GOD COME IN ANYWHERE.

[fear_skiddle]

well the part about the big bang was generally directed at atheists (i just saw a couple people arguing about it), as most ive met think that citing the big bang and evolution is proving Christianity wrong, while John Paul II actually said that the two beliefs could work together

 

 

 

and the thing about which religion is right was seperate and directed at the people debating the idea of Christianity being the right relgion, as it is one out of 2000, i was just trying to say that living a righteous life is probably more important than getting the religion correct

[Ambassadar]

My understanding of the church's position is that, even if you are not a christian, you can still make it to heaven as long as you have lived a virtuious life.

 

What Church believes that? Also is that what you think they believe or do you know it as a 100% fact? Just wondering since I have never heard this in my life from any of the denominations I have visited or have knowledge of.

 

 

 

Just struck me as sorta odd since that statement counters Jesus coming to Earth in the first place as well as counters a good bit of what he said on this Earth while he was here.

[assassin_696]

My understanding of the church's position is that, even if you are not a christian, you can still make it to heaven as long as you have lived a virtuious life.

 

What Church believes that? Also is that what you think they believe or do you know it as a 100% fact? Just wondering since I have never heard this in my life from any of the denominations I have visited or have knowledge of.

 

 

 

Just struck me as sorta odd since that statement counters Jesus coming to Earth in the first place as well as counters a good bit of what he said on this Earth while he was here.

 

 

 

I've heard that statement as well, it's one of those contradictions in the Bible. Basically, you get statements for non-Christians entering heaven, and statements against. The same's true in Islam, although most take the apostates-are-going-to-hell view.

 

 

 

See: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_savn.htm

 

 

 

well the part about the big bang was generally directed at atheists (i just saw a couple people arguing about it), as most ive met think that citing the big bang and evolution is proving Christianity wrong, while John Paul II actually said that the two beliefs could work together

 

 

 

and the thing about which religion is right was seperate and directed at the people debating the idea of Christianity being the right relgion, as it is one out of 2000, i was just trying to say that living a righteous life is probably more important than getting the religion correct

 

 

 

The argument from the first cause is one of the better ones, but the whole idea of causality breaks down for a couple of reasons.

 

 

 

1. The laws of cause and effect break down in some areas of physics (quantum mechanics, the quantum electro-weak force etc).

 

 

 

2. We think time began at the big bang. To talk about it having a cause necessitates a time before the big bang for a cause to exist in, but there is none.

 

 

 

3. Even if we don't know the exact big bang theory (which we don't, it's still an active area of research) that's no reason to fill the 'gap' in our present knowledge in with God, because as our knowledge progresses there are increasingly few places for him to hide.

[specialcharacter]

These people disgust me, I mean protesting at a funeral is a terrible thing to do. However I do enjoy the predicaments they get themselves into when interviewed, trying to preach their views of hatred, these people are as bad as the Nazis.

[LordoftheSquishies]

On the whole "a righteous life is more important than the religion" kick... Where do you get that? Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the light. No man comes to the father but by me." There are references to others coming to God, without believing in Christ or being an Israelite. However that wasn't because they lived a "righteous life". Romans 6:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans chapter 1 also states that "men are without excuse" "for since the beginning of Creation God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature- have been known through what has been made." So we see that a righteous life and not having heard the gospel doesn't get someone off the hook. That doesn't mean that God doesn't choose to save them some other way though. Basically, if you've heard the gospel and rejected Christ, bad. If you haven't heard the gospel, the Bible doesn't say what happens. Seriously, read Romans. I'm not too good at explaining this.

 

 

 

P.S. This is clarifying what the Bible says, not just what I think. If you disagree on some of the more murky passages, fine. If you think something else entirely, you're not a Christian so don't call yourself one. You're just... whatever you decide to be.

[fear_skiddle]

On the whole "a righteous life is more important than the religion" kick... Where do you get that?

 

 

 

P.S. This is clarifying what the Bible says, not just what I think. If you disagree on some of the more murky passages, fine. If you think something else entirely, you're not a Christian so don't call yourself one. You're just... whatever you decide to be.

 

 

 

I got that from my theology teacher (a priest) of the Roman Catholic Church. Im pretty sure (not positive) that it was a part of his speciality

 

 

 

The Roman Catholic Church believes that certain things in the bible may (not often) be replaced with teachings reveald by the Holy Spirit. Church belives is based on Teachings of the Bible combined equally with revalations of the Holy Spirit People who believe the Bible word for word are fundamentalist Christians, and this doesn't reflect some of the views of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

 

 

And to assassin_69

 

the idea that time just started without a cause seems as complex as saying that a Supreme Being was the cause for all of this beginning.

[Kwisatz]

 

 

 

according to the ridiculous Bible.

 

 

 

yet he follows the bible, a 2000 year old piece of trash, like his life depends on it.

 

 

 

Oh yeah and Pro Atheism

 

 

 

So what makes you any better and less closed-minded than them, [bleep]wad? I'm interested. It's so easy to call an ancient text and moral code a "piece of trash," but when you hate them as they hate you it's rather difficult to justify your reasoning. Unless you can give me solid proof that there is no God (and by proof I mean something beyond "I want to impregnate my girlfriend and get an abortion" or "I haven't seen any evidence" since you haven't seen any evidence that there ISN'T a God either) then you can kindly stfu imo.

 

 

 

And for the record, as usual, I'm Agnostic and honestly I'm still making up my mind. People like you make me want to believe there is something better, and people like them make me want to believe I have the power. And also for the record these people are terrible; they are what cause people like the above to form such negative views about organized religion in general.

 

 

 

Jehova's Witnesses believe that Hell is a misinterperetation of text, and that the word originally referred to a hole in the ground, and it's likely that the whole fiery death thing came about because Pagan's cremate their dead..

 

 

 

The word in question is "sheol" I believe. Outside of an ancient city, I can't remember which, there was a wasteland which people were cast into and/or buried and/or cremated, and this word was used to refer to this place. However in the ancient King James translation of the Bible it got rendered into Hell. Jehovah's Witnesses also use a more modern, updated version of the Bible that has the Dead Sea Scrolls and several other historical texts incorporated into it, contrary to the Catholics. Say what you will about them, they are probably some of the more informed and up-to-date followers of Christ. Don't quote me on that explanation BTW, it's something to that effect though.

[Ezz]

Religious people like that seem to live in their own little world making up own definitons of sins for their own needs :roll:

 

 

 

Atheist here by the way, I see no reason why to believe in god.

[assassin_696]

And to assassin_69

 

the idea that time just started without a cause seems as complex as saying that a Supreme Being was the cause for all of this beginning.

 

 

 

It's not an easy to concept to get your head round i'll admit, but it's certainly not the same as invoking a God, because; who made God? (I feel like a broken record).

 

 

 

There's no scientific explanation in saying god did it, you just get in physicists way.

[Satenza]

I agree, its stupid to say "Well, things can't have just come from nothing" then apply a "God must have created the universe" because apparently God has come from nothing. But thats alright for some reason because it's "God". Why can't "God" be the emergence of whatever created the big bang, and why do you need to attribute all these qualities and moral lessons that he has supposed to have given us. If we look at the reality of the universe, if God created all this for us then WHY create anything beyond our solar system that usually cause more natural harm than good. AKA Comets, meteors ect. It makes no sense.

[assassin_696]

I agree, its stupid to say "Well, things can't have just come from nothing" then apply a "God must have created the universe" because apparently God has come from nothing. But thats alright for some reason because it's "God". Why can't "God" be the emergence of whatever created the big bang, and why do you need to attribute all these qualities and moral lessons that he has supposed to have given us. If we look at the reality of the universe, if God created all this for us then WHY create anything beyond our solar system that usually cause more natural harm than good. AKA Comets, meteors ect. It makes no sense.

 

 

 

There's no justification for it, it's just a desperate last ditch attempt by theists to try and reconcile their particular god with science because there's some small aspect of the Universe which we're still not sure about, so the theists jump on it and say "Aha! You can't explain that so there must be a god!" But that's just ridiculous, it's a god of the gaps type argument that simply fails because it begs the "well who made god?" question immediately. A Christian trying to justify their faith in Christianity is a very desperate Christian indeed. I semi-prefer it when Christians just say "God is beyond science" because at least they're acknowledging that you can't prove God with a gap in our present knowledge, but that argument still fails, especially when we try and deal with a personal Christian god. There might well be a deist type higher being, we couldn't disprove that, but there just doesn't need to be one, so Ockam's razor prunes it succinctly.

[bbalking]

 

 

 

according to the ridiculous Bible.

 

 

 

yet he follows the bible, a 2000 year old piece of trash, like his life depends on it.

 

 

 

Oh yeah and Pro Atheism

 

 

 

So what makes you any better and less closed-minded than them, [bleep]wad? I'm interested. It's so easy to call an ancient text and moral code a "piece of trash," but when you hate them as they hate you it's rather difficult to justify your reasoning. Unless you can give me solid proof that there is no God (and by proof I mean something beyond "I want to impregnate my girlfriend and get an abortion" or "I haven't seen any evidence" since you haven't seen any evidence that there ISN'T a God either) then you can kindly stfu imo.

 

 

 

And for the record, as usual, I'm Agnostic and honestly I'm still making up my mind. People like you make me want to believe there is something better, and people like them make me want to believe I have the power. And also for the record these people are terrible; they are what cause people like the above to form such negative views about organized religion in general.

 

 

 

You whining little "[bleep]wad". Try making a point without attempting and unsuccesfully insulting me. The Bible is a piece of contradicting trash, which was translated into english and is over 2000 years old making it an inaccurate, most likely edited to show only things which the translater agreed with, piece of trash. And if you're "agnostic" and you're so strongly defending the Bible, then you're a believer you "[bleep]wad".

[malo2]

 

 

 

according to the ridiculous Bible.

 

 

 

yet he follows the bible, a 2000 year old piece of trash, like his life depends on it.

 

 

 

Oh yeah and Pro Atheism

 

 

 

So what makes you any better and less closed-minded than them, [bleep]wad? I'm interested. It's so easy to call an ancient text and moral code a "piece of trash," but when you hate them as they hate you it's rather difficult to justify your reasoning. Unless you can give me solid proof that there is no God (and by proof I mean something beyond "I want to impregnate my girlfriend and get an abortion" or "I haven't seen any evidence" since you haven't seen any evidence that there ISN'T a God either) then you can kindly stfu imo.

 

 

 

And for the record, as usual, I'm Agnostic and honestly I'm still making up my mind. People like you make me want to believe there is something better, and people like them make me want to believe I have the power. And also for the record these people are terrible; they are what cause people like the above to form such negative views about organized religion in general.

 

you are the biggest idiot i have seen in a long while for reasons i don't feel i should waste my time on pointing out. Honestly, just shut the [bleep] up, you dropped OT's average iq by about 50 points already, don't make it worst and spew out more bs by replying to me, i know you won't have anything half decent to say.

[richpoepaap]

 

 

 

according to the ridiculous Bible.

 

 

 

yet he follows the bible, a 2000 year old piece of trash, like his life depends on it.

 

 

 

Oh yeah and Pro Atheism

 

 

 

So what makes you any better and less closed-minded than them, [bleep]wad? I'm interested. It's so easy to call an ancient text and moral code a "piece of trash," but when you hate them as they hate you it's rather difficult to justify your reasoning. Unless you can give me solid proof that there is no God (and by proof I mean something beyond "I want to impregnate my girlfriend and get an abortion" or "I haven't seen any evidence" since you haven't seen any evidence that there ISN'T a God either) then you can kindly stfu imo.

 

 

 

And for the record, as usual, I'm Agnostic and honestly I'm still making up my mind. People like you make me want to believe there is something better, and people like them make me want to believe I have the power. And also for the record these people are terrible; they are what cause people like the above to form such negative views about organized religion in general.

 

 

 

You whining little "[bleep]wad". Try making a point without attempting and unsuccesfully insulting me. The Bible is a piece of contradicting trash, which was translated into english and is over 2000 years old making it an inaccurate, most likely edited to show only things which the translater agreed with, piece of trash. And if you're "agnostic" and you're so strongly defending the Bible, then you're a believer you "[bleep]wad".

 

Still I'd like you to refrain from calling the bible a piece of trash. A little respect or politeness would be nice.

[hellbellz]

 

Still I'd like you to refrain from calling the bible a piece of trash. A little respect or politeness would be nice.

Seriously.

 

 

 

Bbalking; why do you hate The Bible so much?

[LordoftheSquishies]

Fear_Skiddle, thanks for the explanation. But don't you find it odd that when the Bible states, "All Scripture is God-breathed, useful for teaching and rebuking... (I forget the rest, sorry)" that anything in the book would be replaceable? Remember the warnings from the latter chapters of the gospels and the epistles where Paul says, "Even if an angel teaches you something and it goes against this word, don't listen to him." Be careful.

 

 

 

As for Sheol... My understanding is that it got it's origin from a wasteland and in the early applications of the afterlife, it was kind of like oblivion. I think King David held that opinion because somewhere in the Psalms he says something to the effect of, "Lord God, kill all my enemies, but first make sure their lives suck." Jesus clarifies it a bit more in the gospels with phrases like "weeping and gnashing of teeth" and personally, I think oblivion wouldn't be that bad. Going to bed for all of eternity? Beats waking up at 4 A.M.

 

 

 

Satenza and Assassin, thank you for thoroughly shooting up the Theory of First Cause, which is the most pathetic argument I've ever seen. The Big Bang is just as believable as theism. Until you factor in other things... But thanks again.

 

 

 

Bbalking, get a life and a spell checker. (Is flaming someone always this much fun? Why's it not allowed on here? Can I do it more often???)

[underu2000]

Ah, i had a big essay-speech-debate thing ready to type...but i realize i dont care anymore.

 

But look at the whole matter this way.

 

If God exists (i believe he does btw, just too tired to argue the point), and you're faithful, you go to Heaven as a reward.

 

If God doesnt exist (gack), then you get a degree in physics, bio or chem as a reward, at best.

 

If you bet wrong either way, your finished.

 

Ill edit this for a better argument sometime later. Until then, remember than 15 minutes can save u 15% on car insurance.

[Ezz]

Heaven and Hell were invented as scare tactics in medieval times.

 

 

 

I guess it could be good so that people are nice and all these days, but isn't it better if we're ourselves instead of letting some Heaven/Hell dillema control our actions?