The Herbalist & Merchant Debate.

[Lime_Mercury]

There are a number of people that this update will effect in a critical way.

 

 

 

The first is low-leveled players and low leveled herbalists who didn't much care for getting large stacks of herbs they couldn't ID. So instead of people being able to get a good deal from a new player selling a bunch of herbs that were of no use to them, they'll be much more motivated to hoard and merchant the herbs that are worth the most in the open market.

 

 

 

Have any guess as to how many new players that would demand 5k for each dirty ranarr they pick up? Having players actually determine what an herb was after it was picked up did a much better job of ensuring that herbs of all sorts entered the market because people had a tendency to keep the herbs that they ided as ranarr+, but now if they see an avantoe on the floor, they'll be less inclined to pick it up when they can just kill a couple more cave crawlers for something better.

 

 

 

Something tells me that this will jack up the prices of prayer pots.

[Mukkor]

There are a number of people that this update will effect in a critical way.

 

 

 

The first is low-leveled players and low leveled herbalists who didn't much care for getting large stacks of herbs they couldn't ID. So instead of people being able to get a good deal from a new player selling a bunch of herbs that were of no use to them, they'll be much more motivated to hoard and merchant the herbs that are worth the most in the open market.

 

 

 

Have any guess as to how many new players that would demand 5k for each dirty ranarr they pick up? Having players actually determine what an herb was after it was picked up did a much better job of ensuring that herbs of all sorts entered the market because people had a tendency to keep the herbs that they ided as ranarr+, but now if they see an avantoe on the floor, they'll be less inclined to pick it up when they can just kill a couple more cave crawlers for something better.

 

 

 

Something tells me that this will jack up the prices of prayer pots.

 

 

 

I think just the opposite.

 

 

 

Imagine you're a noob who is killing stuff or herbs to make money. Obviously, before you would keep anything above your level, and rannars (unless they were above your level as well). Now that you know what every single herb is, what's the point of picking up anything other than rannars and kwuarms even for level 1 herblorists wishing to sell? it takes more bank trips for less profit. I have a feeling that we will finally get a "great equalizer" in such that so many people will only pick up certain herbs we will get a huge influx of those herbs. That will lower the prices of those ones (people will be selling grimy rannar and kwuarm for cheap rather than 11-stack unids 1k each) and raise the prices of things like irit and avantoe, which previously were kept (unids above rannar 2k ea) but now will be left (nearly-useless herbs 1k ea). Since not even level 1 herblorists will be in debate over what a guam is, there will be no more selling of them and they will reach a higher price (however much they have to cost to make them worth picking up).

 

 

 

My prediction: Unid market fails, period. Grimies are sold like ID's but +100-500 gp each. Rannars and Kwuarms go down, Cad Lant and Dwarf stay similar (maybe harra too), everything else goes up. Supply begins to emulate demand for all of the herbs and causes steady prices.

[Jordanweb]

Woot! Finally, Jagex have come to their senses and are trying to stop merchanters ruining the skills.

 

 

 

It's going to be a good update, may make me more interested in herblore.

[meili]

I am 73 herblaw but I never buy herbs anyway. They have always been very expensive for me so I just get my own. I buy only the 2nds. :) I'd say this update is alright for helping lower levels but not really that useful for experienced herblawists.

[kelem_ryu]

I thought of this update ratheer as a disadvantage, because it will effectively kill the unid buisness, a buisness i used to play a lot. Somebody raised an interesting point though: It might lower Kwuarm and Rannar prices, because of increased supply.

 

 

 

From the mechanics the update doesn't bring any benefit to me, because i know how to use anti-scam and can id any unid i find right away anyway.

 

 

 

Overall i'd say the update makes sense though, although maybe it would even make ore sense, to remove iding/cleaning alltogether.

[Smapla]

no... this totally makes me saving all unids including toadflax, snapdragon, and torstol seem like a total waste of time, and makes me look even more insane!

[Umega]

I kinda liked the surprise... like having a ranarr pop up in an inventory full of tarromin :D

 

Yeah same. I'm like "Yey ranarr!" in my mind. :P

[highlanders]

I don't like it, unids were fun. Besides, as someone pointed out, no fun for high lvl alchemists, for whom it matters the most..

 

 

 

Another annoyance in jagex's attempt to adapt Runescape to children, instead of children adapting to Rs. *sigh*

[lordkrohn1626]

I am only a nubby 67 herby (got it this morning btw) because I id and make the pots as I get them from slayer....only attempted to buy unids once, got scammed out of 750k by a herb swapper...goes back to an old saying, "trick me once, shame on you, trick me twice, shame on me". I never bought unid herbs again. Yes, there is a nifty way to not get scammed, it isn't that serious to me, and 750k is pocket change. now it will soon be easy to train herby if I ever get around to it, I would rather just buy an herb and know I am getting what I am paying for, then worrry about which pile and how many piles blah blah blah....

 

 

 

But I totally understand and agree that prices wil rise, but if it stops the copious amount of merchant herb scammers, it is a price i am willing to pay. Sry nub scammers, gotta find another way to scam your way to a colored paper hat.

 

 

 

awwwwwwwww *wipes tear*

[mr_freddie]

This is the first update ive ever had an issue with honestly .. and if people riot over it .. heck count me in ill riot and get banned for my cause

 

 

 

since the days of rsc herblore has been the ' perfect ' skill

 

 

 

and now because of a swarm of " xomg i got szamzor3d with teh guams "

 

 

 

 

 

there going to nurf herblore .. no thats just bull

 

 

 

let the noobs struggle like we did ..

 

 

 

the wilderness ditch * cabbage *

 

trade modifications ( i didnt mind that )

 

and now completly murdering a skill ive used as my claim to fame ( tho im low lv ) mother * cabbage * ing * cabbage *

 

 

 

i hope paul and andrew are happy .. there gonna suffer a large group of rioters and people quitting alltogether over this one

[lordkrohn1626]

This is the first update ive ever had an issue with honestly .. and if people riot over it .. heck count me in ill riot and get banned for my cause

 

 

 

since the days of rsc herblore has been the ' perfect ' skill

 

 

 

and now because of a swarm of " xomg i got szamzor3d with teh guams "

 

 

 

 

 

there going to nurf herblore .. no thats just bull

 

 

 

let the noobs struggle like we did ..

 

 

 

the wilderness ditch * cabbage *

 

trade modifications ( i didnt mind that )

 

and now completly murdering a skill ive used as my claim to fame ( tho im low lv ) mother * cabbage * ing * cabbage *

 

 

 

i hope paul and andrew are happy .. there gonna suffer a large group of rioters and people quitting alltogether over this one

 

 

 

 

 

oh no....not another riot in fally! *rolls eyes* that will show them!

 

 

 

mass quitting, sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, less players clogging up my servers.

 

 

 

OFFTOPIC: woot, another whip on task! *updates siggie*

[DarkDude]

I don't see how it'll make herb prices RISE. I have never really trained herblore so I might be wrong about this but from the point of a slayer I often don't pick up herbs due to the fact I don't want to spend time iding them just to get some guams. If I see a "Grimy Ranarr" on the floor I'll be more likely to pick it up and same with a lot of high level herbs, with more herbs activly in the game surely the price has to fall.

[Twiceborn]

So all of the people who have played the game for awhile and take the time to read everything and make sure they know the risks should suffer?

 

 

 

You admit then there is risk.

 

 

 

The game should function without loopholes at its core. It should not rely on forums or the "well if you play long enough you'll know better policy".

 

 

 

Anti-scam is a nice technique developed out of necessity - but it is not good game development.

 

 

 

Finally a fix to the problem. The economy will survive it and move on like it always does- if that means things are more expensive/cheaper or skills more difficult/easier to train...- then so what? Price changes and training methods have changed hundreds of times in the last 6 years.

[YokazenoKyoukan]

you bring a good insight onto the subject...when i looked at it at first i was like "Oh great...just what we need..." but now that i fully understand it I welcome the idea

[Outsanity]

Woot! Finally, Jagex have come to their senses and are trying to stop merchanters ruining the skills.

 

 

 

It's going to be a good update, may make me more interested in herblore.

 

 

 

Merchanters weren't the issue with Herblore. Herb Merchants, unlike regular merchants, actually WORKED for their profit. You have to have 75 Herblore to be able to identify every herb and maximise the profit you make off of iding herbs.

 

 

 

Now that iding no longer exists, any noob who hasn't worked on herblore to be able to identify herbs is going to be able to make the same amount of cash as a higher leveled herblorist.

 

 

 

It's CRAP, and utterly annoying. Herblore was the one skill I could say I was proud of because of the fact that I could id every herb and other people couldn't.

 

 

 

Now there's no sense in it, and all my hard work seems pointless.

[doomy]

I've always thought this would happen, it will be a good update.

[12pure34]

I really don't get what cleaning does?! Could anyone explain it a bit as I can't see the difference between cleaning and ID'ing.

 

 

 

Let's say you have a rannar?

 

@ what level can you clean it?

 

When can you 'clean' it?

 

How would this work?

 

 

 

Help me clear this up

[Kazuma]

This is one of many updates/fixes that should have been made in RS2 beta but noooo they didn't and it's about time.

[Sy_Accursed]

I really don't get what cleaning does?! Could anyone explain it a bit as I can't see the difference between cleaning and ID'ing.

 

 

 

Let's say you have a rannar?

 

@ what level can you clean it?

 

When can you 'clean' it?

 

How would this work?

 

 

 

Help me clear this up

 

 

 

This was in the first post and pretty clear explained in the bts.

 

 

 

Each Unidentified Herb will Become an Unclean herb (since you said rannar lets use that as example)

 

 

 

Instead of "Unid Herb" you have "Unclean Rannar"

 

Instead of "Id Herb" option you have "clean herb" option

 

 

 

Cleaning is replacing Iding. Levels for Iding will become levels for cleaning.

 

 

 

It is an anti scam update so when you buy unid/unclean herbs you can no longer be scammed by someone selling "high unids 5k ea" that are actually Unid Guams

[phata_elise]

I really don't get what cleaning does?! Could anyone explain it a bit as I can't see the difference between cleaning and ID'ing.

 

 

 

Let's say you have a rannar?

 

@ what level can you clean it?

 

When can you 'clean' it?

 

How would this work?

 

 

 

Help me clear this up

 

 

 

This was in the first post and pretty clear explained in the bts.

 

 

 

Each Unidentified Herb will Become an Unclean herb (since you said rannar lets use that as example)

 

 

 

Instead of "Unid Herb" you have "Unclean Rannar"

 

Instead of "Id Herb" option you have "clean herb" option

 

 

 

Cleaning is replacing Iding. Levels for Iding will become levels for cleaning.

 

 

 

It is an anti scam update so when you buy unid/unclean herbs you can no longer be scammed by someone selling "high unids 5k ea" that are actually Unid Guams

 

 

 

Then what is the point of getting an unclean herb? If you know what it is, then why not get the cleaned herb in the first place? Just add the ID exp to the making of pots.

 

 

 

It's not that I don't believe you, I'm just wondering what the point is of getting unclean herbs. I seems like 1 additional click without any purpose.

[Sy_Accursed]

Its an anti-scam like I said

 

 

 

atm a select few herbalists do or attempt to play the herb market by buying bulk stacks of unids cheaply

 

 

 

This for some who know have to defeat any scams means they get high lvl herbs on the cheap

 

 

 

For the mass who aren't aware of scams mean they end up with far over-priced guams etc.

 

 

 

For the wider rs community all this means is when you kill an npc instead of grabbing a herb drop then id it b4 keeping or dropping you know what herb your getting before you clean it. Jagex won't just delete unids and throw the xp into potion making as that is unrealistic step to take AND herbs are used in multiple potions so there is no way to transfer the id xp across properly.

 

 

 

The argument over this update they are doing is down to this:

 

 

 

The few herbalists who know how to play the unid market are mad as the prices will now be down to what herb your buying and they can no longer get cheap herbs

 

 

 

The herb merchants are annoyed as they can no logner scam (in some cases) or they fear this update will entirely wipe out peoples desire to buy unclean herbs, thus killing their market.

[Silver_Corner]

Jagex won't just delete unids and throw the xp into potion making as that is unrealistic step to take AND herbs are used in multiple potions so there is no way to transfer the id xp across properly.

 

 

 

Actually this would be a logical idea, and I would prefer it better. You could in theroy change the xp across properly. All you would have to do is add the xp you would get for I'ding the herbs used in that potion, to the potions XP. Or perhaps, add the ID/Cleaning xp when you put the herb in water, and then the remaining xp when you add the 2nd ingrediant.

 

 

 

*Not to mention, this would clear up ROWS of BANKSPACE*

 

 

 

And also, what most people dont realize is, yes, Prices of "Unids" or uncleaned herbs will be adjusted, but they also dont realize that Herbs such as Ranarr and other popular ones will go DOWN in price.

 

Why? People who cant even identify them, know what they are, which leads to more people picking them up, and not leaving unkown herbs on the ground. More people picking them up puts more in circulation, and therefore will drop prices.

 

 

 

Yes, you cant get them for 1ke in unid form, but a declining price means you can get them for, maybe 6k or less a pop. Im not sure how much they will decline, so I cant give an exact approximation, but its the general idea.

[lordkrohn1626]

Jagex won't just delete unids and throw the xp into potion making as that is unrealistic step to take AND herbs are used in multiple potions so there is no way to transfer the id xp across properly.

 

 

 

Actually this would be a logical idea, and I would prefer it better. You could in theroy change the xp across properly. All you would have to do is add the xp you would get for I'ding the herbs used in that potion, to the potions XP. Or perhaps, add the ID/Cleaning xp when you put the herb in water, and then the remaining xp when you add the 2nd ingrediant.

 

 

 

*Not to mention, this would clear up ROWS of BANKSPACE*

 

 

 

And also, what most people dont realize is, yes, Prices of "Unids" or uncleaned herbs will be adjusted, but they also dont realize that Herbs such as Ranarr and other popular ones will go DOWN in price.

 

Why? People who cant even identify them, know what they are, which leads to more people picking them up, and not leaving unkown herbs on the ground. More people picking them up puts more in circulation, and therefore will drop prices.

 

 

 

Yes, you cant get them for 1ke in unid form, but a declining price means you can get them for, maybe 6k or less a pop. Im not sure how much they will decline, so I cant give an exact approximation, but its the general idea.

 

 

 

well put, I have changed my opinion as well to match yours, upon further contemplation, I feel in the long run, herb prices will drop. I also feel this was a quality update that benefits the masses. I dont buy herbs generally, so I could care less. But anything that makes life more inconvenient for scammers, the happier I am.

 

 

 

I don't think absorbing the iding exp into the pots would be that monumentally challenging for Jagex. Just do away with the whole iding/cleaning process altogether.

 

 

 

LK

[Jeffery]

Well I like this idea there are so many people who use "Ranarrs" to buy rares When they are guam or marrentill This is just to stop you from being scammed I mean Jagex needs their little customers to be safe don't they :roll:

[Peronix]

Pros:

 

* Probably an extra line of bank space, since I will no longer have to keep a couple unids of each type in my bank; I can have stacks of my cleaned herbs and stacks of my unclean herbs that I don't have the level for. A nice plus.

 

* I will know which herbs are worth picking up before I ever pick them up and ID them, which will save a little time while both training and collecting herbs.

 

* Easier to sell some high-end herbs that I couldn't ID.

 

 

 

Cons:

 

* There doesn't seem to be any point to the whole IDing thing anymore. You already know what everything is, and since the clean level is about the same level as making the potions, it's now just an unnecessary extra step whose xp might as well just be tacked onto the making of the potions.

 

* Can't buy multiple stacks of high-end herbs for a constant price anymore. Buying unclean herbs will be essentially the same as buying clean ones.

 

* A lot of people just leave herbs on the ground while training, and I would sometimes pick them up and ID them as a ranarr. No more of that, since the trainer will immediately know that the herb that was just dropped is worth picking up.

 

 

 

I really don't get why Jagex is doing this. The anti-scam works fine for thwarting scammers, only complete idiots wouldn't use it.