The abortion debate

[fgfuyfyuiuy0]

I believe it's a woman's choice. Because maybe she can't take care of a baby. I also hear about tons of kids never getting adopted. You can go into an orphanage, and see 100+ kids there. How many of them do you think are going to get adopted? Woman's choice.

 

 

 

I saw this from an anti-abortanist group:

 

 

 

If you were stuck in a room, there was a loaded gun, 2 bullets, and once the gun is empty, the door opens. In the room there's Hitler, Stalin, and an abortionist. What would you do?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The answer was "Shoot the abortionist twice."

[apinagez]

And as MPC said, not going to happen. This stuff takes time, lots of it. And most importantly, money.

 

 

 

MPC said that? You sure?

 

 

 

Haha I really am confusing people. :P

[Astralinre]

I saw this from an anti-abortanist group:

 

 

 

If you were stuck in a room, there was a loaded gun, 2 bullets, and once the gun is empty, the door opens. In the room there's Hitler, Stalin, and an abortionist. What would you do?

 

 

 

The answer was "Shoot the abortionist twice."

 

 

 

That's perfectly logical. Hitler and Stalin have been dead for decades; why bother shooting them?

 

 

 

apinagez: Your avatar, signature, and location are brilliant.

[Viktorkrum77]

And as MPC said, not going to happen. This stuff takes time, lots of it. And most importantly, money.

 

 

 

MPC said that? You sure?

 

 

 

Haha I really am confusing people. :P

 

 

 

It was his avatar, for some reason it reminded me of MPC's.

 

 

 

BTW wha exactly does your sig mean Apinagez?

[MyPurpleCrayon]

And as MPC said, not going to happen. This stuff takes time, lots of it. And most importantly, money.

 

 

 

MPC said that? You sure?

 

 

 

Haha I really am confusing people. :P

 

 

 

Aha, this is amazing.

[Guest AshKaYu]

Well, my mom attempted to murder my brother as a fetus, but he loves life. He would rather be in an orphanage with no food, no schooling, but life, then be dead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem with abortion is that the baby gets no say >_>

[Danielowns]

Isn't saying to leave out the Bible an attack on christians? It's just like saying "Leave out Evolotion" in a debate about how the world formed...

[deloriagod]

Isn't saying to leave out the Bible an attack on christians? It's just like saying "Leave out Evolotion" in a debate about how the world formed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It might be an attack against Christians but it seems every time a debate comes around someone has to drag the bible into it and thus it results in every argueing about the religion instead of the original debate. The way I see it is if we could actually debate using logic instead of religion, we might actually be able to have an interesting debate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A litt more on topic.. I believe in abortion. We don't start counting a babys age until it is born, so why give it rights until then? Yes, I kind of said that to make someone mad..

[Nadril]

A litt more on topic.. I believe in abortion. We don't start counting a babys age until it is born, so why give it rights until then? Yes, I kind of said that to make someone mad..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I completly agree with you here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Abortion is the mothers choice.

[issy2]

 

A litt more on topic.. I believe in abortion. We don't start counting a babys age until it is born, so why give it rights until then? Yes, I kind of said that to make someone mad..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I completly agree with you here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Abortion is the mothers choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently some expert guy same the child doesn't develop feelings and emotions until the age of I think 5 months? I think that's right anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Nadril I agree.. .but was that last comment sarcastic? Just curious.

[Guest AshKaYu]

But why must the baby suffer because of the father raping his mother, or his mother being a sixteen year old who just couldn't wait?

[mad4u689]

 

 

A litt more on topic.. I believe in abortion. We don't start counting a babys age until it is born, so why give it rights until then? Yes, I kind of said that to make someone mad..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I completly agree with you here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Abortion is the mothers choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently some expert guy same the child doesn't develop feelings and emotions until the age of I think 5 months? I think that's right anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, fantastic! Then let's not just allow abortion, but allow infanticide up unti the age of 5 months, too, since if they can't feel anything, it doesn't matter! And some expert guy said it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/sarcasm]

[Lageris89]

 

 

 

A litt more on topic.. I believe in abortion. We don't start counting a babys age until it is born, so why give it rights until then? Yes, I kind of said that to make someone mad..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I completly agree with you here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Abortion is the mothers choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently some expert guy same the child doesn't develop feelings and emotions until the age of I think 5 months? I think that's right anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, fantastic! Then let's not just allow abortion, but allow infanticide up unti the age of 5 months, too, since if they can't feel anything, it doesn't matter! And some expert guy said it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/sarcasm]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It might be different over there, but infanticide is a defence to murder (for the mother) up until the child is 12 months old.

[Randox]

It is my firm belief that obortion shoul NEVER be denied to someone. It is not fair to the child to be brought into this world in a faimily that dose not love it, and/ or a faimly that cannot support the child. Faimlys that are to poor generaly lead to a lack of education which in turn leads to crime. I know this is a sterio type but generaly the juvenile deliquents come from poor faimlys (though there are many exceptions). Under education leads to crime.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Murder is defined as: the crime of unlawfully and unjustifiably killing another under circumstances defined by statute (as with premeditation); especially : such a crime committed purposely, knowingly, and recklessly with extreme indifference to human life or during the course of a serious felony (as robbery or rape).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SO the justifyable part is alredy covered and thus does not apply. If obortion is legal wherever it takes place, than technicly the killing of an embryo IS NOT MURDER BY DEFINITION! That definition is from the "Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law". IT is also worth noting that as I do not belive an embryo is sentiant (having sense perceptian, conciosness and selfawareness),I have no moral objection to obortion. =D>

[Randox]

 

Isn't saying to leave out the Bible an attack on christians? It's just like saying "Leave out Evolotion" in a debate about how the world formed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It might be an attack against Christians but it seems every time a debate comes around someone has to drag the bible into it and thus it results in every argueing about the religion instead of the original debate. The way I see it is if we could actually debate using logic instead of religion, we might actually be able to have an interesting debate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A litt more on topic.. I believe in abortion. We don't start counting a babys age until it is born, so why give it rights until then? Yes, I kind of said that to make someone mad..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like the bibel thing. Im christian but seeing as the bibel contridicts itsel fleft right and center, it is hardly an authority on what I consider a largly scientific matter. I don't think the bible banned obortion anyway -.- .

[Guest GhostRanger]

It is my firm belief that obortion shoul NEVER be denied to someone. It is not fair to the child to be brought into this world in a faimily that dose not love it, and/ or a faimly that cannot support the child. Faimlys that are to poor generaly lead to a lack of education which in turn leads to crime. I know this is a sterio type but generaly the juvenile deliquents come from poor faimlys (though there are many exceptions). Under education leads to crime.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Murder is defined as: the crime of unlawfully and unjustifiably killing another under circumstances defined by statute (as with premeditation); especially : such a crime committed purposely, knowingly, and recklessly with extreme indifference to human life or during the course of a serious felony (as robbery or *).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SO the justifyable part is alredy covered and thus does not apply. If obortion is legal wherever it takes place, than technicly the killing of an embryo IS NOT MURDER BY DEFINITION! That definition is from the "Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law". IT is also worth noting that as I do not belive an embryo is sentiant (having sense perceptian, conciosness and selfawareness),I have no moral objection to obortion. =D>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your belief is that it is not a human, but there are plenty of people who do believe it is a human though. There are also people who don't believe that blacks and homosexuals aren't human - shall we put it to a vote?

[pro28]

Abortion shouldn't be outlawed, but it should be limited to life-threatening cases. Sure, the child may be born in horrible conditions; but the mother can always leave the child at a police station or a fire station, no questions asked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When that is an option, I just don't see how someone can have the heart to destroy a life.

[Randox]

 

It is my firm belief that obortion should NEVER be denied to someone. It is not fair to the child to be brought into this world in a faimily that dose not love it, and/ or a faimly that cannot support the child. Faimlys that are to poor generaly lead to a lack of education which in turn leads to crime. I know this is a sterio type but generaly the juvenile deliquents come from poor faimlys (though there are many exceptions). Under education leads to crime.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Murder is defined as: the crime of unlawfully and unjustifiably killing another under circumstances defined by statute (as with premeditation); especially : such a crime committed purposely, knowingly, and recklessly with extreme indifference to human life or during the course of a serious felony (as robbery or *).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SO the justifyable part is alredy covered and thus does not apply. If obortion is legal wherever it takes place, than technicly the killing of an embryo IS NOT MURDER BY DEFINITION! That definition is from the "Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law". IT is also worth noting that as I do not belive an embryo is sentiant (having sense perceptian, conciosness and selfawareness),I have no moral objection to obortion. =D>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your belief is that it is not a human, but there are plenty of people who do believe it is a human though. There are also people who don't believe that blacks and homosexuals aren't human - shall we put it to a vote?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats a double negative. Are you saying there are people who dont belive blacks and homosexuals are humman? And technicly I never said I dont belive that fetuses are human, though thats fairly acurate. Ther soon to be human, have human DNA, but are not human yet, they don't care wether they exist or not until later. I belive that the pelenty for not aborting can be much greater than the moral issue. Some times you actual yhave to think in the best interest of the child. Now if its someone who has been getting abortions repededly because they refuse anyother type on contraception...well thats a different story

[Randox]

Abortion shouldn't be outlawed, but it should be limited to life-threatening cases. Sure, the child may be born in horrible conditions; but the mother can always leave the child at a police station or a fire station, no questions asked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When that is an option, I just don't see how someone can have the heart to destroy a life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PLease, please becarful how you use that sentance. Thats prety broad and I could argue that that statment applies to killing misqitos. No offense but you could change that last sentance. :-k

[issy2]

 

 

 

A litt more on topic.. I believe in abortion. We don't start counting a babys age until it is born, so why give it rights until then? Yes, I kind of said that to make someone mad..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I completly agree with you here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Abortion is the mothers choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently some expert guy same the child doesn't develop feelings and emotions until the age of I think 5 months? I think that's right anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, fantastic! Then let's not just allow abortion, but allow infanticide up unti the age of 5 months, too, since if they can't feel anything, it doesn't matter! And some expert guy said it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OOHOOH HARSH. Now I'm not going to be silly and get all sarcastic and childish. I'm merely saying it's better to stop a life before it suffers before forcing into into the world. The mother probably knows whats best for her child. If she doesn't think her child will lead a happy life, it's best he doesn't have one at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And when I said 5 months, I meant inside the womb. And I also didn't say it was true, I was reporting what I've heard.

[issy2]

Causing pain is wrong

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* it is wrong to cause pain and suffering

 

 

 

* a foetus is sufficiently developed to feel pain by 18 weeks

 

 

 

* therefore it is wrong to carry out an abortion after 18 weeks of pregnancy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, if the abortion is carried out before 18 weeks of pregnancy, there is no reason why it cannot be done in relation to the child's suffering.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of you may want to have a look around this site, which is also where I found the above. (under Philosophical and Ethical concerns- Introduction)

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/ab ... ndex.shtml

[Guest GhostRanger]

 

 

It is my firm belief that obortion should NEVER be denied to someone. It is not fair to the child to be brought into this world in a faimily that dose not love it, and/ or a faimly that cannot support the child. Faimlys that are to poor generaly lead to a lack of education which in turn leads to crime. I know this is a sterio type but generaly the juvenile deliquents come from poor faimlys (though there are many exceptions). Under education leads to crime.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Murder is defined as: the crime of unlawfully and unjustifiably killing another under circumstances defined by statute (as with premeditation); especially : such a crime committed purposely, knowingly, and recklessly with extreme indifference to human life or during the course of a serious felony (as robbery or *).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SO the justifyable part is alredy covered and thus does not apply. If obortion is legal wherever it takes place, than technicly the killing of an embryo IS NOT MURDER BY DEFINITION! That definition is from the "Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law". IT is also worth noting that as I do not belive an embryo is sentiant (having sense perceptian, conciosness and selfawareness),I have no moral objection to obortion. =D>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your belief is that it is not a human, but there are plenty of people who do believe it is a human though. There are also people who don't believe that blacks and homosexuals aren't human - shall we put it to a vote?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats a double negative. Are you saying there are people who dont belive blacks and homosexuals are humman? And technicly I never said I dont belive that fetuses are human, though thats fairly acurate. Ther soon to be human, have human DNA, but are not human yet, they don't care wether they exist or not until later. I belive that the pelenty for not aborting can be much greater than the moral issue. Some times you actual yhave to think in the best interest of the child. Now if its someone who has been getting abortions repededly because they refuse anyother type on contraception...well thats a different story

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I meant there are people who believe homosexuals and blacks aren't human.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Under your logic, a person who is mentally handicapped or who is in a persistant vegetative state is no longer human. Are you willing to agree to that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, you said first that you think abortions should be had by anyone anytime they want - now you're saying it shouldn't be used just as another type of contraception? Make up your mind!

[frogact]

That fact that there is even debate over whether it's ok to kill a child just because he is unborn and the "mother" can't be bothered scares the hell out of me. What's next? Or should I say who's next?

[Guest GhostRanger]

That fact that there is even debate over whether it's ok to kill a child just because he is unborn and the "mother" can't be bothered scares the hell out of me. What's next? Or should I say who's next?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not the debate. The debate surrounds the idea of whether or not it is a child that's being killed.

[mad4u689]

 

That fact that there is even debate over whether it's ok to kill a child just because he is unborn and the "mother" can't be bothered scares the hell out of me. What's next? Or should I say who's next?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not the debate. The debate surrounds the idea of whether or not it is a child that's being killed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is actually where the large problem with the abortion debate comes in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pro-choicers tend to argue that it is the mother's choice because it is her body - pro-lifers tend to argue that killing the unborn baby that resides in the mother's uterus is still murder. The two arguments are almost, but not entirely, mutually exclusive. Most pro-choicers will concede that third trimester abortions are "not OK" and that ideally, abortion shouldn't be used as a form of contraception. However, when do you consider the mother's body to cease to be the mother's body? Only at birth? This is not what most pro-choicers argue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So why this arbitrary third trimester junk? What most people, if they think hard enough about it, consider to define their "humanness" is consciousness. The ability to feel. When is the baby capable of such consciousness, or at least the beginnings of such consciousness? When the nervous system begins to develop significantly, which occurs within the first month after contraception.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By this argument, stem cell research would by definition be okay, since you're aiming to get stem cells that haven't differentiated into, say, neurons yet. The point you would pause development of the fetus is necessarily before the fetus feels anything resembling consciousness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By this argument also, the "morning-after pill" would be OK, which would be a significant stop towards preventing abortions, because we all know that mess-ups DO happen.