The abortion debate

[Guest XplsvBam]

If you have sex you have consenqences. You choose to have sex with someone and if you are careless you end up being pregant.

 

 

 

Only exeption to this is if a woman was raped. Because I really doubt some woman goes outside and shouts "Rpe me!!!"

Rapes can be prevented... sure not all of them but some of them.

 

 

 

But even then I would say no abortions unless it comes to physical complications.

[BigUso]

I support abortion - it's a womans choice, for those implying the idea that "being raped is your fault, god wanted it that way so deal w/ it." you people are the reason for so many suicides. Why would you want that girl to suffer through hours of labor? I used to be a christian but lost my faith. even then I dont believe if there was a god he would want any of his children to suffer. I seriously think there's something wrong w/ you, taking faith to an extreme and twisting his words. your just more terrorist this world could do w/o...... and if I had the capability I would end you myself.

[Tetsuya]

Im pro-choice myself. I support the rights of the individuals and not what the relgions think.

[ctp080188]

I can't believe the number of ignorant replies to this topic... I couldn't even read some of them. However there have been some good arguements. I can say from experience it is not a nice position to be in...

 

 

 

I am only 19 and found myself in this predicament, looking disparingly at a positive test. My boyfriend and I made this mistake and something had to be done. Neither of us had a job, as it was both our first year at university, and come on, I just wanted to enjoy myself with the new found independance. How would i be able to bring up a child in that situation? I am barely old enough to look after and support myself, let alone a baby. I had forked out a lot of money to go to university and i had looked forward to studying my choice of degree. Surely it is more cruel to the baby to bring it into the world, where neither me or my partner can provide for it, and neither of us showing the maturity to look after someone other than ourselves.

 

 

 

It was a difficult decision to say the least, but I feel I made the right one. It took a lot of courage for me to make it, and it doesn't come without guilt. Reading these replies overwhelms me with guilt. I do not feel like it is murder, simply a lesser of the two evils. I have the whole rest of my life to do with as I please, and the time will come when i feel I am more capable of looking after a baby an moving on with my life. Now is just not the time, I have a degree to get, and a lifestyle that is unbeatable. I admire my boyfriend for sticking by me the whole way, the doctors, the clinic, everything - i don't believe many would, well not the "men" i know of.

 

 

 

Obviously it could have been avoided, celibacy being one option, but it was not to be, and although the contraception failed this time, double measures are now taken. Maybe i was selfish, but que sera sera, I can't change the past. I have no regrets. Only a bright and happy future.

[jackalope14]

I support abortion - it's a womans choice, for those implying the idea that "being raped is your fault, god wanted it that way so deal w/ it." you people are the reason for so many suicides. Why would you want that girl to suffer through hours of labor? I used to be a christian but lost my faith. even then I dont believe if there was a god he would want any of his children to suffer. I seriously think there's something wrong w/ you, taking faith to an extreme and twisting his words. your just more terrorist this world could do w/o...... and if I had the capability I would end you myself.

 

 

 

To tell you the truth I have never heard someone say that God wanted a woman to get raped :-s . If there is anyone that believes that then your right, but I dont see anybody that has said that.

 

 

 

Haha I was reading my arguments from 2004 and realized why I stopped getting involved in heated debates around here :lol:

[insane]

I can't believe the number of ignorant replies to this topic... I couldn't even read some of them. However there have been some good arguements. I can say from experience it is not a nice position to be in...

 

 

 

I am only 19 and found myself in this predicament, looking disparingly at a positive test. My boyfriend and I made this mistake and something had to be done. Neither of us had a job, as it was both our first year at university, and come on, I just wanted to enjoy myself with the new found independance. How would i be able to bring up a child in that situation? I am barely old enough to look after and support myself, let alone a baby. I had forked out a lot of money to go to university and i had looked forward to studying my choice of degree. Surely it is more cruel to the baby to bring it into the world, where neither me or my partner can provide for it, and neither of us showing the maturity to look after someone other than ourselves.

 

 

 

It was a difficult decision to say the least, but I feel I made the right one. It took a lot of courage for me to make it, and it doesn't come without guilt. Reading these replies overwhelms me with guilt. I do not feel like it is murder, simply a lesser of the two evils. I have the whole rest of my life to do with as I please, and the time will come when i feel I am more capable of looking after a baby an moving on with my life. Now is just not the time, I have a degree to get, and a lifestyle that is unbeatable. I admire my boyfriend for sticking by me the whole way, the doctors, the clinic, everything - i don't believe many would, well not the "men" i know of.

 

 

 

Obviously it could have been avoided, celibacy being one option, but it was not to be, and although the contraception failed this time, double measures are now taken. Maybe i was selfish, but que sera sera, I can't change the past. I have no regrets. Only a bright and happy future.

 

 

 

I'm just curious, if you considered giving the child up for adoption? That way you wouldn't have to fork out money, and you wouldn't have to look after it yourself, but it would be alive.

 

 

 

I'm not criticizing your decision, I'm just curious if you thought of adoption since you didn't mention it.

[ctp080188]

I'm just curious, if you considered giving the child up for adoption? That way you wouldn't have to fork out money, and you wouldn't have to look after it yourself, but it would be alive.

 

 

 

I'm not criticizing your decision, I'm just curious if you thought of adoption since you didn't mention it

 

 

 

It was a thought, but I don't know if i could give birth to a child, bring it into this world, give it to someone else and carry on with life knowing that someone else was looking after my baby. I think once going through the pain so many women have described as the worst in their life i would be able to do it... It would have saved the termination of what could have been a new life, but I wouldn't want my child to not necessarily know who i was, and then in later years to question why i could not look after them myself. It just seemed so complicated.

 

 

 

I don't know... Again maybe this appears selfish, but someone had to make a choice.

[Viv]

if they got raped then they should have abortion. i also think that it should only be allowed during the first trimester. it should not be done cause they do not want a baby they should be put up for adoption not be killed. they have 9 months to figure out the situation that is a whole school year, just aborting it doesnot teach them anything.

 

 

 

edit your post because it critisizes the bible alot and i am a christian and it may offend others. now i do not go all out and stop people from aborting but i do not think that it should be allowed after the first trimester cause they are killing a life.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

People that get abortions are obvisually being selfish.

 

 

 

"but my career isn't ready for a baby"

 

"my parents will be mad"

 

"i don't have time for a baby"

 

 

 

 

People that have children are obviously being selfish.

 

 

 

"I want to have a baby in my life, it is my choice."

 

"my parents will be pleased with me"

 

"The time is right for me to have a child"

 

"I don't want to adopt I want my own child."

 

 

 

It's just as selfish to have a child, then to abort one. Much in the way you buy a pet, because you want to have something to play with; you have a child to have something to play with. You might not play with a dog and a baby in exactly the same way, but the reasoning behind having a child/pet is the same.

 

 

 

Rapes can be prevented... sure not all of them but some of them.

 

 

 

What by not leaving the house? It wouldn't be called rape if it could be preventable.

 

 

 

I can't believe the number of ignorant replies to this topic... I couldn't even read some of them. However there have been some good arguements. I can say from experience it is not a nice position to be in...

 

 

 

What did you expect from a forum primarily populated by young male teens?

 

 

 

 

It was a thought, but I don't know if i could give birth to a child, bring it into this world, give it to someone else and carry on with life knowing that someone else was looking after my baby.

 

 

 

People commonly neglect to think of the mental implications, with regards to carrying through with having a child for the sole purpose of immediate adoption. Mental health is neglected far too much in the modern world. Even where I live, a place with free socialised medicine (a really good one at that); mental health services is not free. People donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t consider mental health problems as a true illness (and as such isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t covered by the health system), yet its effects on people can be more of a problem then many other physical problems.

[Mercifull]

No need to feel bad about it ctp080188, you made the right decision based on your circumstances. Many of the religious right seem to think that women will be quite happy to give just babies away but in reality theres some serious mental issues with that.

[Guest XplsvBam]

 

People that get abortions are obvisually being selfish.

 

 

 

"but my career isn't ready for a baby"

 

"my parents will be mad"

 

"i don't have time for a baby"

 

 

 

 

People that have children are obviously being selfish.

 

 

 

"I want to have a baby in my life, it is my choice."

 

"my parents will be pleased with me"

 

"The time is right for me to have a child"

 

"I don't want to adopt I want my own child."

 

 

 

It's just as selfish to have a child, then to abort one. Much in the way you buy a pet, because you want to have something to play with; you have a child to have something to play with. You might not play with a dog and a baby in exactly the same way, but the reasoning behind having a child/pet is the same.

 

 

 

Rapes can be prevented... sure not all of them but some of them.

 

 

 

What by not leaving the house? It wouldn't be called * if it could be preventable.

 

How is having kids selfish? Keeping the world populated what? Oh snap. I guess I missed the point to that one. #-o ...Anyways...

 

 

 

On Topic: Most people feel bad when they murder someone. Sure you get those crazy guys like manson but lets face it most people feel bad. People feel bad when they get abortions but they would rather that bad feeling then the consquences that god gave them.

 

 

 

I'm sorry I'm so biased but the opposite argument "I just wanted to enjoy myself with the new found independance" for someone reason dosn't seem to be convincing me.

 

 

 

I understand why people are pro-abortion. But maybe they don't understand why I'm pro-life. So I will 'try' to explain why I am.

 

 

 

I will never see your child dead or alive. I will never be able to help you through the mental strain of deciding to abort or not. I'm just a citizen of a country that sets standards for millions of people. And because of that I want these decisions to positivly effect our country.

 

 

 

People must realize how casual our country is becoming. Prude to MTV in 2 centuries flat. Do you really want a world were teenagers can have sex when ever they want on never have to deal with the consquences? I'm pretty sure that will result in ALOT more pain then living with an un-planned baby. Sex is too emotional to take lightly. And by being pro-abortion you are helping take sex to a deep dark place that our generation has already been dragging it to.

 

 

 

The reason why pro-life get so heated is because they realize how important sex is. Pro-abortion just seems to care about fun. "Let's have sex then I just want to enjoy myself with the new found independance."

 

 

 

I fully understand how pro-abortion people feel. Because I'm a teenager and if my parents wont let me do something that I know is wrong I will still argue because I want to have fun.

 

 

 

When I look at a abortion argument all I see is a teenager that wants to have fun and a politition to back it up.

[Bauke]

I haven't read the whole topic so what I'm about to post might be a bit double.

 

 

 

Anyways, I'm pro-abortion. I believe people should have the right to choose whether they want the baby or not. Ofcourse, it's bad to just have unprotected sex and "just" go for an abortion. But that's sort of the price for that freedom. It's their lives, their body, their soon-to-be-child, so they should have the right to do abortion. I think it's bad that people can judge over other people in saying that they don't have the right to do an abortion.

 

 

 

Furthermore, I strongly disagree with saying that abortion is murder. Abortion is allowed upto the 5th (or something, doesn't really matter, what matters is the stage of growth) month of pregnancy. In that stadium, you can't say that the unborn child is really alive. It has the ability to grow as a human, but in my opinion it's not a human just yet. Especially in the first stadium, it's just a bunch of cells that can't do anything, just grow and eventually specialize in different cell types. In that stadium I think killing an animal is worse than killing a "baby".

 

 

 

Ofcourse abortion shouldn't be just an ordinary thing. It should be a well thought choice, and not easy to perform, perhaps the doctor should charge quite a big of money for it (except in cases of rape/incest and stuff)

[Evilperson]

First off let me say I am too lazy to read the first 11 pages, ill get on around to that later tonight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes! Let's control what people do to their body that has no effect on anyone else! Let's control what people think while we are at it!

 

 

 

How can the government control something that will affect no one else? It is ridiculous to think that Oh well that person over there is offended by the fact you are getting an abortion so you can't

 

 

 

Why should someone elses opinion matter in the case of your own body? Honestly it is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard of.

 

 

 

I don't know why but this argument always pisses me off because why can't someone understand it is the choice of the person having the baby and if they don't want it they should be allowed to do whatever they want to an UNBORN NON-LIVING thing?

 

 

 

Please stop telling other people what to do.

[Guest GhostRanger]

First off let me say I am too lazy to read the first 11 pages, ill get on around to that later tonight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes! Let's control what people do to their body that has no effect on anyone else! Let's control what people think while we are at it!

 

 

 

How can the government control something that will affect no one else? It is ridiculous to think that Oh well that person over there is offended by the fact you are getting an abortion so you can't

 

 

 

Why should someone elses opinion matter in the case of your own body? Honestly it is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard of.

 

 

 

I don't know why but this argument always pisses me off because why can't someone understand it is the choice of the person having the baby and if they don't want it they should be allowed to do whatever they want to an UNBORN NON-LIVING thing?

 

 

 

Please stop telling other people what to do.

 

 

 

You've missed the whole point of the abortion discussion, as most people do.

 

 

 

The reason no one ever listens is because people are always arguing completely different point.

 

 

 

Against abortion: Abortion is murder; you're killing a baby.

 

 

 

Pro-choice: Don't tell people what to do with their own bodies.

 

 

 

On both sides, the arguments don't make sense against each other. You could very easily believe that the government shouldn't tell people what to do with their own bodies while also believing that abortion is murder. In fact, I know someone on this forum who believes pretty strongly with both of those principals.

 

 

 

The arguments is not about choice, the argument is about whether or not it's a baby. If we were to agree that it's a baby, I'm sure that 99% of the population would agree it's wrong (the Timothy McVeigh's might disagree). If we were to agree that it's nothing more than tissue, then I'm sure that a great majority of people would agree with the "it's my body" idea - afterall, we allow tumors to be removed, tattoos to be given, and other such things.

 

 

 

So quit arguing about whether or not the government has the right to tell you what to do with your own body. The abortion debate is truly, at heart, about whether or not it's a baby or not.

[insane]

You've missed the whole point of the abortion discussion, as most people do.

 

The reason no one ever listens is because people are always arguing completely different point.

 

Against abortion: Abortion is murder; you're killing a baby.

 

Pro-choice: Don't tell people what to do with their own bodies.

 

On both sides, the arguments don't make sense against each other. You could very easily believe that the government shouldn't tell people what to do with their own bodies while also believing that abortion is murder. In fact, I know someone on this forum who believes pretty strongly with both of those principals.

 

 

 

The arguments is not about choice, the argument is about whether or not it's a baby. If we were to agree that it's a baby, I'm sure that 99% of the population would agree it's wrong (the Timothy McVeigh's might disagree). If we were to agree that it's nothing more than tissue, then I'm sure that a great majority of people would agree with the "it's my body" idea - afterall, we allow tumors to be removed, tattoos to be given, and other such things.

 

 

 

So quit arguing about whether or not the government has the right to tell you what to do with your own body. The abortion debate is truly, at heart, about whether or not it's a baby or not.

 

 

 

The problem is, people don't take their views on abortion from their views on whether its a baby or not - they decide their view on abortion, and then use that to decide whether or not it's a baby - it works the other way around alot of the time.

 

 

 

 

 

Many of the religious right seem to think that women will be quite happy to give just babies away but in reality theres some serious mental issues with that.

 

 

 

I've never heard of/spoken to a woman that has regretted giving a baby up for adoption. Are you calling the women that give their babies up for adoption instead of blasting their existence into oblivion people with serious mental issues?

 

I think there's something seriously wrong with that.

[Kwisatz]

As far as I'm concerned, abortion is not a matter of religion, it's a matter of thinking about what's universally moral and accepting responsibility. No offense to the poster who aborted their baby, but they PORKED THEIR BOYFRIEND. It is their own fault that they did it in the first place. Even if they use birth control they know that the risk still exists. Biologically sex is designed to create children, and we should always be expectant of that outcome. What did you think was going to happen by attempting to procreate, nothing?

 

 

 

Consequently if you willingly engage in sexual activity and become impregnated you have absolutely no right to get an abortion. You KNEW the risks, you KNEW what you were doing. As for the sentiment that abortion is not killing, think of it this way. What if somebody traveled back in time and killed your mother before she had you, and you ceased to exist? Well, it's not techincally killing since they didn't end your life, but they prevented it from starting. I don't think you'd be very appreciative if somebody did that. Conversely, preventing an embryo from developing into a child is effectively killing it, making one less life on Earth.

 

 

 

Don't ask me about rape; I still haven't quite reconciled that with myself, and I fear that I never will. But still, if you knowingly commit a sexual act and get pregnant, then abort the baby, you refuse to accept the consequences of your actions as well as end a human life before it even begins. Such people can only hope that deities are indeed fairy tales, because if they aren't I pity them.

[ctp080188]

As far as I'm concerned, abortion is not a matter of religion, it's a matter of thinking about what's universally moral and accepting responsibility. No offense to the poster who aborted their baby, but they PORKED THEIR BOYFRIEND. It is their own fault that they did it in the first place. Even if they use birth control they know that the risk still exists. Biologically sex is designed to create children, and we should always be expectant of that outcome. What did you think was going to happen by attempting to procreate, nothing?

 

 

 

Consequently if you willingly engage in sexual activity and become impregnated you have absolutely no right to get an abortion. You KNEW the risks, you KNEW what you were doing. As for the sentiment that abortion is not killing, think of it this way. What if somebody traveled back in time and killed your mother before she had you, and you ceased to exist? Well, it's not techincally killing since they didn't end your life, but they prevented it from starting. I don't think you'd be very appreciative if somebody did that. Conversely, preventing an embryo from developing into a child is effectively killing it, making one less life on Earth.

 

 

 

Don't ask me about rape; I still haven't quite reconciled that with myself, and I fear that I never will. But still, if you knowingly commit a sexual act and get pregnant, then abort the baby, you refuse to accept the consequences of your actions as well as end a human life before it even begins. Such people can only hope that deities are indeed fairy tales, because if they aren't I pity them.

 

 

 

Obviously I know it's my own fault, I'm not stupid. I made a mistake yes, and to deal with the consequences for me by having a baby was not an option. Yes I knew the risks, but contraception is there for a reason. It is there to have sex without procreating. Which is indeed what was planned to have happened. If i had WANTED a baby I would have not used it, so why should i continue to have the baby if the intention is not there? Sex is not only to procreate but for pleasure, so if a child is born without any planning, who's to tell you you must keep it? It's not like I didn't know what could have happened, I just took precautions to try and ensure it didn't. How can you say it is murder when you have not specified when this ball of cells is regarded a human life? It is living off the mother, it is not living as a single being, and at the time i had the abortion it didn't even have any arms or legs. Is that a human being?

 

 

 

The real debate here should be when you consider a foetus to become a human being, because in reality whenever you believe that time is, is when you would consider abortion to be a murder. For me? I'd have to say that when the baby is first born and breathes air and stops living off the mother is when i would consider the baby to be a human being.

 

 

 

A thank-you to those who supported my decision, it brings me a reassurance in myself. I haven't told even many of my closest friends, only for the reason abortion is a controversial issue and even though i know they would support me, i still doubt in whether they would think I made the right decsion. Ugh why am I even thinking about other people's ideas on it. I know the decision i made was right for me.

[Kwisatz]

 

Consequently if you willingly engage in sexual activity and become impregnated you have absolutely no right to get an abortion. You KNEW the risks, you KNEW what you were doing. As for the sentiment that abortion is not killing, think of it this way. What if somebody traveled back in time and killed your mother before she had you, and you ceased to exist? Well, it's not techincally killing since they didn't end your life, but they prevented it from starting. I don't think you'd be very appreciative if somebody did that. Conversely, preventing an embryo from developing into a child is effectively killing it, making one less life on Earth.

 

 

 

Curious how you didn't touch on that. It's not whether it's technically a human being. Everybody is running around "oh it's not a human since it's this and that." That isn't the point. The point is that it WOULD be human were it not for you stopping it. Think fourth-dimensionally, cause-and-effect. If I abort the baby, there is no human. If I have the baby, there is a human. The absence of the human is caused by me if I abort the baby.

 

 

 

That simple.

[pianofrieak2]

Obviously I know it's my own fault, I'm not stupid. I made a mistake yes, and to deal with the consequences for me by having a baby was not an option. Yes I knew the risks, but contraception is there for a reason. It is there to have sex without procreating. Which is indeed what was planned to have happened. If i had WANTED a baby I would have not used it, so why should i continue to have the baby if the intention is not there? Sex is not only to procreate but for pleasure, so if a child is born without any planning, who's to tell you you must keep it?

 

 

 

Actually, I don't see why an evolutionist would say that sex is intended for anything BUT procreation. After all, if it doesn't help your race survive, it's not useful and gets eliminated from the gene pool. Unless of course you believe sex was "created" for something with multiple outcomes. But any creation has to have a creator.

 

 

 

It's not like I didn't know what could have happened, I just took precautions to try and ensure it didn't. How can you say it is murder when you have not specified when this ball of cells is regarded a human life? It is living off the mother, it is not living as a single being, and at the time i had the abortion it didn't even have any arms or legs. Is that a human being?

 

 

 

Yes, you're correct. A fetus could be classified as a parasite since it lives entirely off the mother. But why does that matter? If it's human, then it's human. I don't see why classifying it as a parasite in its earliest stages of development is any big deal. Like that kid said before me, if it's alive then it's a human. If it's a human, then it deserves to live.

 

 

 

The real debate here should be when you consider a foetus to become a human being, because in reality whenever you believe that time is, is when you would consider abortion to be a murder. For me? I'd have to say that when the baby is first born and breathes air and stops living off the mother is when i would consider the baby to be a human being.

 

 

 

So basically that the fetus is more developed, right? That it can survive on its own, so it's more developed. Well, let me ask you this: One doesn't stop growing until one is usually around 20-25. They don't stop maturing their mind until they're about 40. So does that mean that a 40 year old has a better reason for living than a 5 year old? No.

 

 

 

A thank-you to those who supported my decision, it brings me a reassurance in myself. I haven't told even many of my closest friends, only for the reason abortion is a controversial issue and even though i know they would support me, i still doubt in whether they would think I made the right decsion. Ugh why am I even thinking about other people's ideas on it. I know the decision i made was right for me.

 

 

 

Man, lots of kids have postmodern ideas now. What is up with that? Do we teach that in our schools?

 

 

 

Do you mean that your decision to abort your baby was right for you but is wrong for someone else in the exact same circumstances? Why is that?

[Death_By_Pod]

 

So quit arguing about whether or not the government has the right to tell you what to do with your own body. The abortion debate is truly, at heart, about whether or not it's a baby or not.

 

 

 

That is the reason why it isn't called a baby or child but a foetus. Even if you were to concede that it were a person, would it be wrong to kill something that isn't even aware of its own existence? After all we remove people from life support all the time; they are not self-aware and are taking up resources that more promising patients can use. Maybe the next day the patient will make a miraculous recovery; to bad you pulled the plug yesterday.

 

 

 

From any of these topics that pop-up I have never seen any medical evidence to show that a foetus is self-aware from the beginning or near the beginning. Hence there should be a period of time to allow abortion to occur, medical consensus at the moment is the third trimester; whether that changes or not will depend on new insight to a foetusÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s self awareness.

 

 

 

 

The point is that it WOULD be human were it not for you stopping it. Think fourth-dimensionally, cause-and-effect. If I abort the baby, there is no human. If I have the baby, there is a human. The absence of the human is caused by me if I abort the baby.

 

 

 

 

In that case not bringing all unfertilised ova to full term is an abortion. What's the difference between a fertilised egg and an unfertilised one? They both have the same potential; they can both turn into people given the right conditions.

 

 

 

 

Actually, I don't see why an evolutionist would say that sex is intended for anything BUT procreation. After all, if it doesn't help your race survive, it's not useful and gets eliminated from the gene pool. Unless of course you believe sex was "created" for something with multiple outcomes. But any creation has to have a creator.

 

 

 

Yes, you're correct. A fetus could be classified as a parasite since it lives entirely off the mother. But why does that matter? If it's human, then it's human. I don't see why classifying it as a parasite in its earliest stages of development is any big deal. Like that kid said before me, if it's alive then it's a human. If it's a human, then it deserves to live.

 

 

 

So basically that the fetus is more developed, right? That it can survive on its own, so it's more developed. Well, let me ask you this: One doesn't stop growing until one is usually around 20-25. They don't stop maturing their mind until they're about 40. So does that mean that a 40 year old has a better reason for living than a 5 year old? No.

 

 

 

Do you mean that your decision to abort your baby was right for you but is wrong for someone else in the exact same circumstances? Why is that?

 

 

 

Of course sex is for procreation, but that doesn't describe why dolphins like having sex for reasons other then procreation. People take pleasure from having sex as an incentive to have children. I can't see what is wrong from preventing the children part while maintaining the pleasure part. Not everything has a creator, dEdt>=hbar/2 has you wrong but what does this have to do with abortion?

 

 

 

A foetus requires life support from its mother, a person doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t. So I guess you donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t agree with pulling life support from patients with next to no chance of survival?

 

 

 

It is impossible to have someone in the exact same circumstances. Sure there are many young, poor university students put in the same situation, however some may feel more inclined to have an abortion, adoption or to leave university and take up a full time role supporting a child.

[Kwisatz]

 

In that case not bringing all unfertilised ova to full term is an abortion. What's the difference between a fertilised egg and an unfertilised one? They both have the same potential; they can both turn into people given the right conditions.

 

 

 

The difference is that an unfertilized ovum has potential to develop into a person, not that it necessarily will. A fertilized one will almost certainly develop into one, unless you act upon it by aborting it. More cause and effect.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

A fertilized one will almost certainly develop into one, unless you act upon it by aborting it. More cause and effect.

 

 

 

You do know not all pregnancies come to full term. Statistics on the number of miscarriages is hard to get however there have been a few to show that there is around ~25% chance of miscarriage in the first 6 weeks, which increases to very high levels (~50%) as you get older. Note that the study was only based on the first 6 weeks, as you know many more miscarriages can occur after that time. Fertilisation and implantation will certainly not 'almost' guarantee coming to full term.

[insane]

That is the reason why it isn't called a baby or child but a foetus. Even if you were to concede that it were a person, would it be wrong to kill something that isn't even aware of its own existence? After all we remove people from life support all the time; they are not self-aware and are taking up resources that more promising patients can use. Maybe the next day the patient will make a miraculous recovery; to bad you pulled the plug yesterday.

 

 

 

I disagree with your syllogism;

 

 

 

The fact that you call the life support patients recovery miraculous is enough for me to say that the chance a foetus becomes self-aware is tons greater than a patient "miraculously" coming back into awareness.

 

 

 

Furthermore, a patient on life support that gets removed is thus transferring resources over to more promising patients; when a foetus gets aborted, I don't see any freed up resources moving onto another more "promising" foetus.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

The fact that you call the life support patients recovery miraculous is enough for me to say that the chance a foetus becomes self-aware is tons greater than a patient "miraculously" coming back into awareness.

 

 

 

Furthermore, a patient on life support that gets removed is thus transferring resources over to more promising patients; when a foetus gets aborted, I don't see any freed up resources moving onto another more "promising" foetus.

 

 

 

In terms of "potential" an aborted foetus could become a person much like a coma patient could become a person, they both have the same ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅpotentialÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[Guest XplsvBam]

Alot of people don't realize there is a reason why god created them. And because of that people don't realize how important babys are.