Good read, as always, Qeltar. Sums up my thoughts in a very organized, intelligent manner. I sure hope the guys over at Jagex Towers read this article, and do something about it.

 

 

 

I hope they throw it in the bin.

 

History proves that listening to players and their complaints merely screws it up more.

 

 

 

This post actually does more negative effect in the long run.

 

 

 

Do you think you could possibly explain *why* you write off the whole article as being "more negative effect in the long run"?

 

 

 

I thought it was obvious that this post is like all the others.. An attempt to undermine Jagex' authority, decisions and pretty much their image as a good company.

 

For gods sake the post even mentions WTC 9/11.

 

 

 

So it seems you *cannot* come with any good counter-arguments, you just think my article is bad and that's that. Okay. :)

 

I don't think your article is bad, I just think its a fancy version of another whining post about staking.

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has more money than someone level 99 smithing who worked for it?

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has BILLIONS worth in items, gained in few months, when someone else playing the exact same game for longer has practically nothing, seeing as the person wanted to .. hmm lets just say construct, or do smithing.

 

 

 

I'm sure you can see how imbalanced that is.

 

 

 

It was ridiculous that stakers, a mere different kind of fighter, with stats so obvious and so easy to get, could be the most powerful people in RS, moneywise.

 

 

What you seem to be forgetting is that Jagex has specifically said that dealing with this imbalance issue is not why they made this change.

 

 

 

I mentioned this in the article. Did you even read it?

 

 

I don't think your article is bad, I just think its a fancy version of another whining post about staking.

 

 

Then that would definitely suggest that you didn't read it.

I have two (quite) off topic comments:

 

First: I surely think all that killing on the schools and university will continue too if we ban guns. Just as all those gun accidents. But I understand this is a debate on its own and I won't discuss is any further.

 

Second: Why does everyone here hate this change but didn't care about PC change? It's about the same IMO, they did something the majority didn't want and it ruined a good way of training for a lot of people.

 

 

 

Well, PC was a semi compromise. People can still play it and still gain about half of the xp they once did. However, 50mill compared to 3k is absolutely nothing.

I have two (quite) off topic comments:

 

First: I surely think all that killing on the schools and university will continue too if we ban guns. Just as all those gun accidents. But I understand this is a debate on its own and I won't discuss is any further.

 

Second: Why does everyone here hate this change but didn't care about PC change? It's about the same IMO, they did something the majority didn't want and it ruined a good way of training for a lot of people.

 

 

 

The STAKING update was needed... It was extremely overpowered MONEY FOR NEWBIES and was not even meant to replace normal MERCHANTING or MONEYMAKING.

 

 

Hope you like my revised version of your quote.

I have two (quite) off topic comments:

 

First: I surely think all that killing on the schools and university will continue too if we ban guns. Just as all those gun accidents. But I understand this is a debate on its own and I won't discuss is any further.

 

Second: Why does everyone here hate this change but didn't care about PC change? It's about the same IMO, they did something the majority didn't want and it ruined a good way of training for a lot of people.

 

 

 

The STAKING update was needed... It was extremely overpowered MONEY FOR NEWBIES and was not even meant to replace normal MERCHANTING or MONEYMAKING.

 

 

Hope you like my revised version of your quote.

 

 

 

Again, Jagex said this is NOT why they did it. You are off topic.

Lovely article. I always enjoy reading these things.

 

Just a few minor points...

 

 

 

Jagex has repeatedly claimed that it has sophisticated systems capable of tracking gold sales conducted by the trade interface, for example. As a programmer myself, I see no practical reason why these could not be similarly adapted for use with stakes. Simply log all stakes over a certain value and feed them into a program that searches for patterns of unbalanced stakes with the same people ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅlosingÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has more money than someone level 99 smithing who worked for it?

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has BILLIONS worth in items, gained in few months, when someone else playing the exact same game for longer has practically nothing, seeing as the person wanted to .. hmm lets just say construct, or do smithing.

 

 

 

I'm sure you can see how imbalanced that is.

 

 

 

It was ridiculous that stakers, a mere different kind of fighter, with stats so obvious and so easy to get, could be the most powerful people in RS, moneywise.

 

 

What you seem to be forgetting is that Jagex has specifically said that dealing with this imbalance issue is not why they made this change.

 

 

 

I mentioned this in the article. Did you even read it?

 

 

I don't think your article is bad, I just think its a fancy version of another whining post about staking.

 

 

Then that would definitely suggest that you didn't read it.

 

 

 

If they told the real reason they'd just have more whiners on their hands than currently. You're the one questioning Jagex, so how plausible is it that they might just have said what they said to calm down 13 yr olds who see staking as their life on RS.

Makes no sense bawling your eyes out over something that they won't give back . Raising to 5k is obviously a smack in the face to the whiners, one they deserve, and I'd happily do it IRL to everyone of them with a metal glove.

 

 

 

And you misread my last lines, I'm talking about the stakers to stop whining. If you take it personally its not my affair.

 

 

 

p.s. IMBALANCED, and illegitimate are two different words, where do i mention illegitimate?

 

I heard that picture was a fake, just making fun of jagex's attitude on this. As far as I know they haven't made a statement in response to the complaints, and it's possible that as we speak they're debating together, fully acknowledging that the update was ridiculous. The stakers are acknowledging this too, and they have every right to. They're not whining - when the game is taken away from them, when their time, the most valuable thing, is taken from them, they have more than enough reason to argue and debate this change. Jagex often changes things back, so why shouldn't they post in the rant forums if it's not set in stone that this is permanent? I don't take this personally, but I can see when a group of people have had something really unfair done to them.

I have two (quite) off topic comments:

 

First: I surely think all that killing on the schools and university will continue too if we ban guns. Just as all those gun accidents. But I understand this is a debate on its own and I won't discuss is any further.

 

Second: Why does everyone here hate this change but didn't care about PC change? It's about the same IMO, they did something the majority didn't want and it ruined a good way of training for a lot of people.

 

 

 

The STAKING update was needed... It was extremely overpowered MONEY FOR NEWBIES and was not even meant to replace normal MERCHANTING or MONEYMAKING.

 

 

Hope you like my revised version of your quote.

 

 

 

Again, Jagex said this is NOT why they did it. You are off topic.

 

 

 

You go ahead and believe that.

 

 

 

I'll choose to believe what I believe, just like you believe Jagex is all out to get you because they hate you and wish to destroy your perfect idea of gaming.

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has more money than someone level 99 smithing who worked for it?

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has BILLIONS worth in items, gained in few months, when someone else playing the exact same game for longer has practically nothing, seeing as the person wanted to .. hmm lets just say construct, or do smithing.

 

 

 

I'm sure you can see how imbalanced that is.

 

 

 

It was ridiculous that stakers, a mere different kind of fighter, with stats so obvious and so easy to get, could be the most powerful people in RS, moneywise.

 

 

What you seem to be forgetting is that Jagex has specifically said that dealing with this imbalance issue is not why they made this change.

 

 

 

I mentioned this in the article. Did you even read it?

 

 

I don't think your article is bad, I just think its a fancy version of another whining post about staking.

 

 

Then that would definitely suggest that you didn't read it.

 

 

 

If they told the real reason they'd just have more whiners on their hands than currently. You're the one questioning Jagex, so how plausible is it that they might just have said what they said to calm down 13 yr olds who see staking as their life on RS.

 

 

 

Yes, they COULD be lying, but that's not the point. They claim this was done because of RWT, and that approach is the topic here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll choose to believe what I believe, just like you believe Jagex is all out to get you because they hate you and wish to destroy your perfect idea of gaming.

 

 

These sorts of childish comments add nothing to the discussion. I already said clearly that I said there might be other reasons.

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has more money than someone level 99 smithing who worked for it?

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has BILLIONS worth in items, gained in few months, when someone else playing the exact same game for longer has practically nothing, seeing as the person wanted to .. hmm lets just say construct, or do smithing.

 

 

 

I'm sure you can see how imbalanced that is.

 

 

 

It was ridiculous that stakers, a mere different kind of fighter, with stats so obvious and so easy to get, could be the most powerful people in RS, moneywise.

 

 

What you seem to be forgetting is that Jagex has specifically said that dealing with this imbalance issue is not why they made this change.

 

 

 

I mentioned this in the article. Did you even read it?

 

 

I don't think your article is bad, I just think its a fancy version of another whining post about staking.

 

 

Then that would definitely suggest that you didn't read it.

 

 

 

If they told the real reason they'd just have more whiners on their hands than currently. You're the one questioning Jagex, so how plausible is it that they might just have said what they said to calm down 13 yr olds who see staking as their life on RS.

 

 

 

Yes, they COULD be lying, but that's not the point. They claim this was done because of RWT, and that approach is the topic here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll choose to believe what I believe, just like you believe Jagex is all out to get you because they hate you and wish to destroy your perfect idea of gaming.

 

 

These sorts of childish comments add nothing to the discussion. I already said clearly that I said there might be other reasons.

 

 

 

I found an interesting quote while scanning through the RSOF's Duel Arena rants sticky. With no personal comment, here is the quote, with player names censored out:

 

 

 

Mod Mark H

 

Jagex Mod

 

 

 

20-Nov-2007 19:40:06

 

**********: No, oddly enough this isn't the only thing we have done.

 

 

 

Let me set the record the straight for you, we can ban a lot of gold farmers, we *do* ban a lot of gold farmers.

 

 

 

The problem is, that doesn't stop them. They come back, and they can continue coming back over and over again because they have the time and resources for it.

 

 

 

We need to stop this problem at the source, and we are taking measures to do this.

 

 

 

This is one way we can limit how they transfer money. We will be working on other methods as well, implementing new systems to make Runescape a NICER game to play.

 

 

 

So many of you complained that macroers and goldfarmers were ruining the game, now we are doing something about it and if you don't want these people hogging all the resources and giving other players unfair advantages by selling them gold, I am afraid that a few changes will need to be made.

 

 

 

What would you prefer...

 

 

 

1) A Runescape with no cheating, or unfairness?

 

2) One less way to make money.

 

 

 

I know that's simplifying the situation heavily, but it boils down to that.

 

 

 

We know this would have major changes and sadly cause loyal members to quit. But we wouldn't be doing it if we could resolve it another way.

 

 

 

~ MMH ~

 

 

 

The Duel Arena Update

 

Quick find code: 27-28-630-54011496 : page 378

 

 

 

I quoted this from another post.

 

 

 

I quoted this from another post.

 

 

 

I saw that before I wrote my article. It doesn't contradict what he said in my screenshot.

 

 

 

There is no evidence here that they deliberately did this to take out stakers because they make too much money. It's POSSIBLE but there's no proof.

 

 

 

Just because you WANT that to have been the reason doesn't make it so. As long as Jagex does these things and claims it is because of RWT, then their RWT approach is suspect and that's the subject of the article.

The root of the problem with RWT is that they can trade their items. If we want to make the game perfect, why not just remove all methods of transfering of items: option 2! Just keep removing methods of making money until the game is safe and enjoyable for everyone.

 

Or until there's nothing left to do in the game. That too would solve the problem of autoers.

 

 

 

I quoted this from another post.

 

 

 

I saw that before I wrote my article. It doesn't contradict what he said in my screenshot.

 

 

 

There is no evidence here that they deliberately did this to take out stakers because they make too much money. It's POSSIBLE but there's no proof.

 

 

 

Just because you WANT that to have been the reason doesn't make it so. As long as Jagex does these things and claims it is because of RWT, then their RWT approach is suspect and that's the subject of the article.

 

 

 

So you're saying their excuse isn't good enough ?

 

If the ONLY reason was to cut down on real world trading (and nowhere have they said they've gotten rid of it totally) , than thats a good enough reason to change staking as it has been.

 

 

 

Who are you to call their approaches suspect, as if they are committing some heinous criminal act? The only criminal act would be to give in to the moaning and groaning of the general population.

 

 

 

Just so you know, I don't WANT anything at all. I play f2p, have never tried p2p since january 2001, and stakers have never affected my in any shape or form. But what does affect me is the overdose of players trying to undermine Jagex and portray them as amateurs, or people who just don't care. Admit that the purpose of your post is to make jagex seem dumber than they really are. Only after people accept your first agenda, are they willing to take on the second one, that being that you don't trust their "rwt" campaign.

The root of the problem with RWT is that they can trade their items. If we want to make the game perfect, why not just remove all methods of transfering of items: option 2! Just keep removing methods of making money until the game is safe and enjoyable for everyone.

 

Or until there's nothing left to do in the game. That too would solve the problem of autoers.

 

 

 

Easier to remove the whiners, moaners and groaners. Since your so into going into extremities in the first place.

 

That way the people who actually like playing will still have a game.

Fook, why the hell do you keep talking? Seriously could you brown nose Jagex even more?

 

 

 

You got no member stats ranked so I assume your f2p so why you having such a passion about this update? I mean it affects you in no way.

 

 

 

Keep cutting your yews and leave stakers and other people who seem smarter then you alone.

Fook-A-Ji, I'm going to tell you everything I know about how your way of arguing is wrong:

 

 

 

You only speak half-truth though.

 

I know many don't agree with this post, and they aren't dumb 13-12 year olds, who's way of winning a debate is who can scream the longest and loudest.

 

So fact of the matter is, that intelligent people also disagree, meaning we wouldn't get much further from the state we're in. I don't think Jagex should listen to anyone at all except themselves.

 

Jagex...listen to only themselves? The point of the article was that Jagex was messing up by listening to themselves, that their decisions were hurting the game. Put up reasons/evidence to support your claim.

 

 

 

I thought it was obvious that this post is like all the others.. An attempt to undermine Jagex' authority, decisions and pretty much their image as a good company.

 

For gods sake the post even mentions WTC 9/11.

 

Undermine? No. Criticize their actions, yes. You take a very, very narrowminded approach that any criticism of Jagex is blatant libel against them. No. This is a very well thought out and supported criticism that Qeltar wrote.

 

As for the 9/11 reference, it is an ARGUMENT BY ANALOGY THAT COMPARES THE U.S. GOVT'S ACTIONS TO THOSE OF JAGEX BECAUSE THEY BOTH OVERREACT AND HURT THEIR RESPECTIVE CHARGES

 

 

 

I understand that YOU think there was a stable duel system running.

 

 

 

But.

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has more money than someone level 99 smithing who worked for it?

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has BILLIONS worth in items, gained in few months, when someone else playing the exact same game for longer has practically nothing, seeing as the person wanted to .. hmm lets just say construct, or do smithing.

 

 

 

I'm sure you can see how imbalanced that is.

 

 

 

It was ridiculous that stakers, a mere different kind of fighter, with stats so obvious and so easy to get, could be the most powerful people in RS, moneywise.

 

Lets face it, its only because people can't make millions in a matter of minutes, that they whine like female dogs now. Well news flash, people played before staking was changed, and they certainly will AFTER. I know I will, and I hope that the ones who played for staking ONLY, actually do quit. Either that or stop whining.

 

Simple bias vs. stakers. As you mentioned in your first paragraph, it's a matter of choice whether or not someone wants to stake or "construct, or do smithing". Just because staking is particularly lucrative doesn't mean that Jagex should totally kill of that avenue of moneymaking.

 

 

 

Makes no sense bawling your eyes out over something that they won't give back . Raising to 5k is obviously a smack in the face to the whiners, one they deserve, and I'd happily do it IRL to everyone of them with a metal glove.

 

 

 

And you misread my last lines, I'm talking about the stakers to stop whining. If you take it personally its not my affair.

 

 

 

p.s. IMBALANCED, and illegitimate are two different words, where do i mention illegitimate?

 

So somebody comes into your house, steals everything, and you can't get it back. Should I tell you not to cry about something you can't get back? Stakers deserve to complain, although the ones that simply whine instead of giving good arguments are a bit stupid.

 

 

 

I don't think your article is bad, I just think its a fancy version of another whining post about staking.

 

It's obviously not a whining post but a good, cohesive argument.

 

 

 

Hope you like my revised version of your quote.

 

Misquoting is a sin in arguments.

 

 

 

You go ahead and believe that.

 

 

 

I'll choose to believe what I believe, just like you believe Jagex is all out to get you because they hate you and wish to destroy your perfect idea of gaming.

 

Ah, here we go. You admit that you "choose to believe what [you] believe". After looking at your posts, this statement seems to mean that you're choosing to be closed-minded.

Fook-A-Ji, I'm going to tell you everything I know about how your way of arguing is wrong:

 

 

 

You only speak half-truth though.

 

I know many don't agree with this post, and they aren't dumb 13-12 year olds, who's way of winning a debate is who can scream the longest and loudest.

 

So fact of the matter is, that intelligent people also disagree, meaning we wouldn't get much further from the state we're in. I don't think Jagex should listen to anyone at all except themselves.

 

Jagex...listen to only themselves? The point of the article was that Jagex was messing up by listening to themselves, that their decisions were hurting the game. Put up reasons/evidence to support your claim.

 

 

 

I thought it was obvious that this post is like all the others.. An attempt to undermine Jagex' authority, decisions and pretty much their image as a good company.

 

For gods sake the post even mentions WTC 9/11.

 

Undermine? No. Criticize their actions, yes. You take a very, very narrowminded approach that any criticism of Jagex is blatant libel against them. No. This is a very well thought out and supported criticism that Qeltar wrote.

 

As for the 9/11 reference, it is an ARGUMENT BY ANALOGY THAT COMPARES THE U.S. GOVT'S ACTIONS TO THOSE OF JAGEX BECAUSE THEY BOTH OVERREACT AND HURT THEIR RESPECTIVE CHARGES

 

 

 

I understand that YOU think there was a stable duel system running.

 

 

 

But.

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has more money than someone level 99 smithing who worked for it?

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has BILLIONS worth in items, gained in few months, when someone else playing the exact same game for longer has practically nothing, seeing as the person wanted to .. hmm lets just say construct, or do smithing.

 

 

 

I'm sure you can see how imbalanced that is.

 

 

 

It was ridiculous that stakers, a mere different kind of fighter, with stats so obvious and so easy to get, could be the most powerful people in RS, moneywise.

 

Lets face it, its only because people can't make millions in a matter of minutes, that they whine like female dogs now. Well news flash, people played before staking was changed, and they certainly will AFTER. I know I will, and I hope that the ones who played for staking ONLY, actually do quit. Either that or stop whining.

 

Simple bias vs. stakers. As you mentioned in your first paragraph, it's a matter of choice whether or not someone wants to stake or "construct, or do smithing". Just because staking is particularly lucrative doesn't mean that Jagex should totally kill of that avenue of moneymaking.

 

 

 

Makes no sense bawling your eyes out over something that they won't give back . Raising to 5k is obviously a smack in the face to the whiners, one they deserve, and I'd happily do it IRL to everyone of them with a metal glove.

 

 

 

And you misread my last lines, I'm talking about the stakers to stop whining. If you take it personally its not my affair.

 

 

 

p.s. IMBALANCED, and illegitimate are two different words, where do i mention illegitimate?

 

So somebody comes into your house, steals everything, and you can't get it back. Should I tell you not to cry about something you can't get back? Stakers deserve to complain, although the ones that simply whine instead of giving good arguments are a bit stupid.

 

 

 

I don't think your article is bad, I just think its a fancy version of another whining post about staking.

 

It's obviously not a whining post but a good, cohesive argument.

 

 

 

Hope you like my revised version of your quote.

 

Misquoting is a sin in arguments.

 

 

 

You go ahead and believe that.

 

 

 

I'll choose to believe what I believe, just like you believe Jagex is all out to get you because they hate you and wish to destroy your perfect idea of gaming.

 

Ah, here we go. You admit that you "choose to believe what [you] believe". After looking at your posts, this statement seems to mean that you're choosing to be closed-minded.

 

 

 

/argument :boohoo:

A stark representation on the whole issue which im ashamed to say is absolutely truth.

Come Monday, Jagex is going to announce the removal of player-to-player trading with the advent of the GE, which will have a price cap on all items of 10m. Enjoy your last few days of RuneScape, for the end is near.

The root of the problem with RWT is that they can trade their items. If we want to make the game perfect, why not just remove all methods of transfering of items: option 2! Just keep removing methods of making money until the game is safe and enjoyable for everyone.

 

Or until there's nothing left to do in the game. That too would solve the problem of autoers.

 

 

 

Easier to remove the whiners, moaners and groaners. Since your so into going into extremities in the first place.

 

That way the people who actually like playing will still have a game.

 

 

 

There are times when moaning and groaning are just annoying, like when the server crashes, because things like that are nobody's fault, and there's nothing anybody can do about it but wait for Jagex to bring them back up.

 

 

 

But there are also times when this is justified (well, somewhat, spam and riots obviously are obviously pointless). Let me remind you, the guys at Jagex aren't gods. We have every right to question their decisions. They can ignore the 12-13 year old whiners all they want, and they should, but when more reasonable players start to speak out, not listening to them is just arrogant.

The root of the problem with RWT is that they can trade their items. If we want to make the game perfect, why not just remove all methods of transfering of items: option 2! Just keep removing methods of making money until the game is safe and enjoyable for everyone.

 

Or until there's nothing left to do in the game. That too would solve the problem of autoers.

 

 

 

Easier to remove the whiners, moaners and groaners. Since your so into going into extremities in the first place.

 

That way the people who actually like playing will still have a game.

 

 

 

remove the whiners and the people who think and you are left with a load of brainless addicts :thumbsup: (in borats voice) Great Success :thumbsup:

 

 

 

no being serious people only moan about what affects them therefore if you poke around enough you might just be able to screw up the entire community

 

 

 

also i just noticed what it said in your signature, never surrender, never defeat

 

 

 

ill rephrase that "however crap and non sencical my arguement you cant let the opposition win"

 

 

 

good article qeltar im with you all the way

i personally agree with this update even though i think the limit is a bit low....

 

 

 

i am not a staker, only used duel arena to get rid of some decent items which were impossible to sell, in hope of gaining something, however with ge that problem will be solved.

 

 

 

I did not go there often so i really don't know the extent of the goldsellers using it to trade, however i know it was an easy and relatively safe way of trading gold, that will now have stopped

 

 

 

Most of you have noticed this and think that there were too few doing this for it to be justified, this is probably the case, however will you pause and think and tell me what happened to a lot of "good" stakers such as cursed you ?

 

 

 

they make a lot of money very quickly (once they have the stats) and sell it, i am not condemming all big stakers however a significant number of stakers did this, while many others also got banned for other reasons.

 

 

 

These proportions are a lot greater in stakers than say skillers or pkers because these groups don't make money that easily so they can make less profits over a lot greater period of time, so they are less likely to risk getting banned, and stakers are gamblers so are more likely to risk it

 

 

 

 

 

this update, although a bit extreme, brings an end to high level staking as a source of irl income as well as removing one of the best methods (imo) of transferring gold between accounts

Haha, I don't know what to think about [bleep]ex er.... I mean... Jagex, anymore. They have displayed so many times in the past that they are obsessed with money and value it over everything else, but then they go and do this... Which resulted in probably a good 15% or more of the RS population canceling their subscriptions. One would think they would've been able to foresee that result... But they probably just thought to themselves "Oh, they'll get over it. They always do *snicker*"

 

 

 

Also, as you mentioned the senseless obsession to stop RWT, it makes me fear what the Grand Exchange will be like. Will they go as far as to remove player-to-player trades, and force everybody to use the GE? Will they set maximum prices for items, which are completely unrepresentative of the actual market prices? Honestly, nothing Jagex does anymore surprises me. They have proven time and time and time and time again that they are completely and utterly out of touch with their player base, which only spells disaster, regardless of what updates they make.

 

 

 

If anywhere near 150,000 members have/will quit due to this update, then I'm the dictator of Australia.

 

 

 

Jagex is not totally out of touch with its players. They've just made some bad decisions, that's all. It's nothing like SOE.

That was a very good article, I enjoyed reading it. I have to say that I am on the side of the stakers, although I have never staked myself. I would be very upset if Jagex were to remove dust devils from the game, the same way stakers are upset over the 3k stake limit.