Great thread, it provides a lot of good points and i really hope jagex takes a look at it.

I have always stood behind Jagex in most of their updates. Sure, I may not have liked the latest generic quest or whatever - but complain? Nah. At least they were trying, and I respected them for that.

 

 

 

Not anymore.

 

 

 

This update has totally and completely destroyed my respect for Jagex as a whole.

 

 

 

I haven't played regularly in over a month now, but this settles without a doubt that I will never come back to this game. Ever. This is beyond [cabbage]ty customer service and half-baked updates, and when a company falls this far out of touch with it's fans, it's past time to leave.

 

 

 

Blizzard Entertainment just got a new customer.

Good article

 

 

 

You put up some valid points

I am astounded that the author would have the gaul to compare a terrotist attack on America and the subsequent deaths of thousands on both sides to a computer game just to get a rise out of his audience. I suppose its not enough that people had to die fighting terrorists, now we have to degrade them by comparing them to a meaningless computer game. That sickens me.

I am astounded that the author would have the gaul to compare a terrotist attack on America and the subsequent deaths of thousands on both sides to a computer game just to get a rise out of his audience. I suppose its not enough that people had to die fighting terrorists, now we have to degrade them by comparing them to a meaningless computer game. That sickens me.

 

At least read the entire thread before posting. :roll:

 

 

 

Qultar, I have to say you made some terrific points and this is one hell of an essay. Jagex should get over here and read it now.

 

 

 

I have always stood behind Jagex in most of their updates. Sure, I may not have liked the latest generic quest or whatever - but complain? Nah. At least they were trying, and I respected them for that.

 

 

 

Not anymore.

 

 

 

This update has totally and completely destroyed my respect for Jagex as a whole.

 

 

 

I haven't played regularly in over a month now, but this settles without a doubt that I will never come back to this game. Ever. This is beyond [cabbage] customer service and half-baked updates, and when a company falls this far out of touch with it's fans, it's past time to leave.

 

 

 

Blizzard Entertainment just got a new customer.

 

Exactly as I feel. Jagex just Omega-ultra-overkilled it by making it 3K per 15 minutes. I mean 3K?! Christ! What a number...

 

 

 

Jagex should really take example of Blizzard though, not on the game but their community. Blizzard is greatly in touch with their fans and look at them: WoW has 7 million+ accounts and all paying. Jagex has NO connection to its community compaired to Blizzard...none.

I am astounded that the author would have the gaul to compare a terrotist attack on America and the subsequent deaths of thousands on both sides to a computer game just to get a rise out of his audience. I suppose its not enough that people had to die fighting terrorists, now we have to degrade them by comparing them to a meaningless computer game. That sickens me.

 

At least read the entire thread before posting. :roll:

 

 

 

Qultar, I have to say you made some terrific points and this is one hell of an essay. Jagex should get over here and read it now.

 

 

 

 

I did read the whole thing, and the truth or not Qultars comparison left a bad taste in my mouth.

I am astounded that the author would have the gaul to compare a terrotist attack on America and the subsequent deaths of thousands on both sides to a computer game just to get a rise out of his audience. I suppose its not enough that people had to die fighting terrorists, now we have to degrade them by comparing them to a meaningless computer game. That sickens me.

 

 

 

People who can't understand analogies probably shouldn't read my articles. Suffice to say that you completely missed the point.

Jesus Christ, you blithering fools. Don't get so hung up on that comparison... The point of it was to reinforce the stupidity of of taking unnecessary and asinine measures to correct a problem, without any regards for collateral damage.

 

 

 

It's an analogy; get used to it, because you will see them and likely use them later on, once you start writing at a professional level. Just because you don't like an analogy doesn't mean you can strike through the entire argument.

I am astounded that the author would have the gaul to compare a terrotist attack on America and the subsequent deaths of thousands on both sides to a computer game just to get a rise out of his audience. I suppose its not enough that people had to die fighting terrorists, now we have to degrade them by comparing them to a meaningless computer game. That sickens me.

 

At least read the entire thread before posting. :roll:

 

 

 

Qultar, I have to say you made some terrific points and this is one hell of an essay. Jagex should get over here and read it now.

 

 

 

I have always stood behind Jagex in most of their updates. Sure, I may not have liked the latest generic quest or whatever - but complain? Nah. At least they were trying, and I respected them for that.

 

 

 

Not anymore.

 

 

 

This update has totally and completely destroyed my respect for Jagex as a whole.

 

 

 

I haven't played regularly in over a month now, but this settles without a doubt that I will never come back to this game. Ever. This is beyond [cabbage] customer service and half-baked updates, and when a company falls this far out of touch with it's fans, it's past time to leave.

 

 

 

Blizzard Entertainment just got a new customer.

 

Exactly as I feel. Jagex just Omega-ultra-overkilled it by making it 3K per 15 minutes. I mean 3K?! Christ! What a number...

 

 

 

Jagex should really take example of Blizzard though, not on the game but their community. Blizzard is greatly in touch with their fans and look at them: WoW has 7 million+ accounts and all paying. Jagex has NO connection to its community compaired to Blizzard...none.

 

 

 

Blizzard aside. I've been playing another game for a while now - great game, I love the pvp system, fanbase is great - but unfortunately, it's a dying game. It has all the marks; decreasing funds, time between patches is increasing, the client is starting to look dated; heck, its dev team has shrunk to half what it used to be. It was originally a traditional paygame like WoW or EQ, but has since gone free and makes its revenue through advertisement.

 

 

 

But even on it's deathbed, with available resources dwindling, it's CS system rocks RuneScape's socks. Sure, they may only have 10 people working at their office - but dammit, they're going to do the best job they can. Each new patch is tested by actual players on a special test server, and the developers listen to the advice, ideas, and concerns of players. Recently there was a problem with the options available to one of the guild charters that put that charter at a disadvantage against others, and the players simply put together a petition and calmly turned it in to the dev team. Guess what? Next patch, they got their wish. No riots, no swamping the forums, and no, not even plain ol' Jagex inactivity. Just a simple request from the consumers, and a bit of brainstorming from the developers.

 

 

 

Sure, sure, we're talking about a much smaller fanbase here. Some things that can work with a base of 15,000 players won't work with a base of 5 million. But that doesn't mean that the game's owners and developers have no alternative but to sit on their hands and grow further and further out of touch with the wants and needs of the very people that keep them in business.

 

 

 

And that's not even mentioning other large, successful MMO companies that stay tuned to their player's wishes; I don't need to name names, you know what companies I'm talking about.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I've defended Jagex for far too long. There is no excuse for the way they're handling this game. They haven't fallen out of the loop, I think they broke it.

Well at the end of the day regardless of whether I agree with (all of) Qeltar's analysis [hide](America doesn't live in a bubble, we can point to 4 other MASSIVE terrorist attacks around the world since September the 11th that have been responsible for the continuing paranoia and subsequent changes in policy across the WORLD and we CANNOT say that these policies are degrading our economies or societies OR that they are a disproportionate response){I don't disagree with it being used as an analogy I just plain disagree with the sentiment}[/hide]or not Jagex has dropped the ball on this one, they have created a whole lot of dissatisfaction in the user base and the fact they aren't being particularly transparent about whats going on isn't helping. Jagex must make a decision if a large percentage (of users) are angry at this (I think we can safely say they are). Do they stick to their intentions and leave things they way they are despite massive unrest or do they change the maximum stake for individual duels to appease people?

 

 

 

Tough call if you're Jagex, yes we play the game and if Jagex wants to continue earning our money they must satisfy us, but at the same time the game is PLAGUED by cheaters and Jagex is aware that this is a problem that is a HUGE issue to players. Right now Jagex must decide which is more important: following through with their attempt to rid the game of cheats(I'm fairly sure at this point this was a big motivation if not the only motivation)or to pacify all the people they have angered with this update (many of whom are legitimate players who don't cheat). The balls back in your court Jagex.

 

 

 

Edit: also WOW are we being really serious about this, shows how important the game is to us all, I don't know whether to laugh or cry

 

:D :?: :cry:

We might as well look into the future now. What could jagex possibly do next? I'll tell you what's next. First, let's take a look at jagex's philosophy as of now:

 

 

 

Let me set the record the straight for you, we can ban a lot of gold farmers, we *do* ban a lot of gold farmers.

 

 

 

We need to stop this problem at the source, and we are taking measures to do this.

 

 

 

This is one way we can limit how they transfer money. We will be working on other methods as well, implementing new systems to make Runescape a NICER game to play.

 

 

 

So many of you complained that macroers and goldfarmers were ruining the game, now we are doing something about it and if you don't want these people hogging all the resources and giving other players unfair advantages by selling them gold, I am afraid that a few changes will need to be made.

 

 

 

What would you prefer...

 

 

 

1) A Runescape with no cheating, or unfairness?

 

2) One less way to make money.

 

 

 

I know that's simplifying the situation heavily, but it boils down to that.

 

 

 

We know this would have major changes and sadly cause loyal members to quit. But we wouldn't be doing it if we could resolve it another way.

 

 

 

~ MMH ~

 

 

 

So Mark gave jagex's new philosophy. A fallacious either or two extremes type situation. Often used as propaganda in having people pick a side. As Mark insinuated, they're going with option 1) A Runescape with no cheating, or unfairness? - and sacrificing 2) One less way to make money.

 

 

 

The question is, how far can they push this ideology? It's clear that they want to remove RWT from the root and will take any lengths to do it (hence ruining the game for a core group of paying members). Nobody's off limits now. But back to the game plan. We're jagex, and we have to change this game so RWT cannot possibly ever occur. What do we do next?

 

 

 

First, we get rid of trading. Transactions can only occur now in the grand exchange. But of course, we can't have people exchanging large amounts of cash. That would promote real world trading. We'll be limited to 100k cash trades an hour, and only one trade of over 1mil a day. Will we have a gp cap for trading? Why not. It couldn't hurt. Those party hats are just ruining the game. And it doesn't matter if we make another core group of players quit. We're making the game a safer and more enjoyable experience!

 

 

 

Ok, now that we've fixed trading, we've got another problem. People might still abuse the wild, treating it like the old way of dueling. Therefore, we've made a very important change! Upon reaching the wild barrier, you are no longer allowed to bring over 1500gp. This will ensure no cash is transferred via this new abusive method of "pk transferring." To ensure rares aren't transferred either, when the player dies, all items automatically are transferred into their high alchemy equivalent and dropped onto the ground. This is the only way now of having items dropped, because....

 

 

 

To combat the last issue of rwt, we have made one very important change! You may have noticed a few items have the "destroy" option rather than "drop." We have decided that for the overall benefit of the game to do away with this "drop" feature. You now can only destroy your items. We have added a new feature in the bank to quickly drop items into a bank disposal now for ease of getting rid of items. This shall add better functionality for everyone, and make the game a much more enjoyable experience now that the evils of RWT are gone.

 

 

 

We know this is a very large update and might possibly upset a large majority of you. To be sure, we took an advanced private survey of a few select members. It turns out only 10% of players would plan on continuing to pay for their membership, but in the grand scheme of things, we will view this as a triumph against real world trading. It is very important we take measures to ensure that even though a few impractical elements of the game are gone, we successfully remove the RWT issue. For the projected 1000 players left, we hope you enjoy these changes and hope to continue making runescape an enjoyable experience for everyone!

We might as well look into the future now. What could jagex possibly do next? I'll tell you what's next. First, let's take a look at jagex's philosophy as of now:

 

 

 

[

 

 

 

I'll take the cheating version of RuneScape, thank you very much.

 

 

 

If I actually believed that Jagex would fix the problem with their updates, I'd believe them, but I don't. This change to the duel arena is beyond rediculous, accomplishes nothing, and destroys much. If the only solution you can come up with is to crush flies with sledgehammers, I'll take the flies anyday.

To make a slightly off topic point: Jagex changing the duel arena is NOT getting real world trading at the 'root'. Getting it at the root would be going after the companies that are used as marketplaces {EBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY} and the companies that sell and buy Runescape gold...ANNNNND the players 'collecting'(usually by cheating in another way) the gold in-game to sell (they would prosecute them all). To do so effectively they would need a rather large department (I'm gonna guestimate 300 people) searching ebay and other such sites ALL DAY EVERY DAY(searching for sales of Runescape gold-harder than you'd think because people sell 'poems' or other such crap with a 'free' Runescape account to get round Ebays rules on these things) and the web in general looking for runescape gold selling sites(the ones that are high on google searches are easy, EASY to find but the others are much, much harder to find requiring people instead of computer programs). Also they would require an in-house law firm(included in the guestimation)for all the horrible, horrible legal processes required to achieve a prosecution against these people. Thats mighty expensive and complicated sounding isn't it? Ever wondered why ALL MMORPGS that are popular are overrun by bots, real world traders and farmers? Its because its nearly impossible to stop them, they are basically and to use a nice analogy cockroaches(cockroaches are notoriously difficult to kill/get rid of and you most definitely don't want an infestation in your house).

 

 

 

Weeeeeell sorry about that its not even relevant but now I've typed it I might as well post it. :shock:

 

 

 

Edit:for some reason I was spelling sites (as in internet sites) as sights, this has been fixed.

Excellent read. Jagex seems rather stubborn about this issue, however on the forums I noticed Mod Mark H said that a suggestion for the fix would be a 5% max discrepancy between stakes. This would allow for stakers to continue, and would make RWT'ers' work much less worth the time for their cash, and probably stop them from using the DA to do it.

 

 

 

Like many, many others, I'm on the verge of quitting. I don't even stake, the fact that Jagex has made this completely idiotic decision has crushed any faith I had left in them. Only reason I'm still here is the hope that the cap will be repealed.

 

 

 

Edit: @ AJL: Truly I would not be surprised if the part about the GE came to fruition. Sad that Jagex is so hell-bent on destroying RWT that they go to these lengths and probably to the ones you brought up :|

Sometimes I wonder if these games "upgrades" are actually "downgrades." And sometimes I'm even wondering if Jagex is doing all these intentionally to piss off RS players - to slowly kill the game and force everyone to quit since their new game is scheduled to be launched next year(?). :|

Excellent read. Jagex seems rather stubborn about this issue, however on the forums I noticed Mod Mark H said that a suggestion for the fix would be a 5% max discrepancy between stakes. This would allow for stakers to continue, and would make RWT'ers' work much less worth the time for their cash, and probably stop them from using the DA to do it.

 

 

 

Like many, many others, I'm on the verge of quitting. I don't even stake, the fact that Jagex has made this completely idiotic decision has crushed any faith I had left in them. Only reason I'm still here is the hope that the cap will be repealed.

 

 

 

That's my view, exactly. I'm not a staker. Pker, yes, staker no. The only reason I am quitting is because it's impossible to place any sort of trust in Jagex after this. There are plenty of other games out there that beat this one in so many aspects there's no reaspon to keep playing a game that you have to worry over your favorite activities for fear that they will be removed in the holy name of "stopping cheaters".

Excellent read. Jagex seems rather stubborn about this issue, however on the forums I noticed Mod Mark H said that a suggestion for the fix would be a 5% max discrepancy between stakes. This would allow for stakers to continue, and would make RWT'ers' work much less worth the time for their cash, and probably stop them from using the DA to do it.

 

 

 

Like many, many others, I'm on the verge of quitting. I don't even stake, the fact that Jagex has made this completely idiotic decision has crushed any faith I had left in them. Only reason I'm still here is the hope that the cap will be repealed.

 

 

 

That's my view, exactly. I'm not a staker. Pker, yes, staker no. The only reason I am quitting is because it's impossible to place any sort of trust in Jagex after this. There are plenty of other games out there that beat this one in so many aspects there's no reaspon to keep playing a game that you have to worry over your favorite activities for fear that they will be removed in the holy name of "stopping cheaters".

 

 

 

Wonder if they'll notice the giant drop in memberships and actually rethink this update if so many are taking the same course of action :?

We are all treating Jagex like some government organization that is answerable to us, they aren't, they haven't misled or broken our trust, all they've done is change a part of the game. They owe us nothing, sure you can quit and they lose money and if all of us quit they no longer have any way of making money but that doesn't mean we own them, much the opposite in fact they own us. They could close the game tomorrow without giving notice, sell/stop renting the servers and take down the website and we could......do absolutely nothing. There may be the issue of compensation due to membership credit being paid on a monthly basis but aside from that we couldn't make any demands of them.

 

Summation:They make a game, we play the game, they changed something in the game some(maybe a lot) of people don't like.

 

 

 

Edit: oh Qeltar i think at least 100 of my posts come from replying/arguing with you or posting on your topics, you sir are good at creating interesting discussions.

Excellent read. Jagex seems rather stubborn about this issue, however on the forums I noticed Mod Mark H said that a suggestion for the fix would be a 5% max discrepancy between stakes. This would allow for stakers to continue, and would make RWT'ers' work much less worth the time for their cash, and probably stop them from using the DA to do it.

 

 

 

Like many, many others, I'm on the verge of quitting. I don't even stake, the fact that Jagex has made this completely idiotic decision has crushed any faith I had left in them. Only reason I'm still here is the hope that the cap will be repealed.

 

 

 

Edit: @ AJL: Truly I would not be surprised if the part about the GE came to fruition. Sad that Jagex is so hell-bent on destroying RWT that they go to these lengths and probably to the ones you brought up :|

 

 

 

Same why i feel, if they don't fix it in the next 2-3 weeks, i'm gone -.-

We are all treating Jagex like some government organization that is answerable to us, they aren't, they haven't misled or broken our trust, all they've done is change a part of the game. They owe us nothing, sure you can quit and they lose money and if all of us quit they no longer have any way of making money but that doesn't mean we own them, much the opposite in fact they own us. They could close the game tomorrow without giving notice, sell/stop renting the servers and take down the website and we could......do absolutely nothing. There may be the issue of compensation due to membership credit being paid on a monthly basis but aside from that we couldn't make any demands of them.

 

Summation:They make a game, we play the game, they changed something in the game some(maybe a lot) of people don't like.

 

 

 

Edit: oh Qeltar i think at least 100 of my posts come from replying/arguing with you or posting on your topics, you sir are good at creating interesting discussions.

 

It goes without saying that jagex has the ability to shut down the game, and in that sense has control, obviously. Nobody means we literally own jagex. But from a common sense perspective, jagex will want to make updates that will please the majority of players, and our leverage towards that is that we pay membership fees to keep the game running. They can do whatever they want, but there will be financial repercussions for bad decisions.

We are all treating Jagex like some government organization that is answerable to us, they aren't, they haven't misled or broken our trust, all they've done is change a part of the game. They owe us nothing, sure you can quit and they lose money and if all of us quit they no longer have any way of making money but that doesn't mean we own them, much the opposite in fact they own us. They could close the game tomorrow without giving notice, sell/stop renting the servers and take down the website and we could......do absolutely nothing. There may be the issue of compensation due to membership credit being paid on a monthly basis but aside from that we couldn't make any demands of them.

 

Summation:They make a game, we play the game, they changed something in the game some(maybe a lot) of people don't like.

 

 

 

Edit: oh Qeltar i think at least 100 of my posts come from replying/arguing with you or posting on your topics, you sir are good at creating interesting discussions.

 

 

 

Oh, I know that. But one of the most important things that a company can have is the goodwill and trust of its customers, and this isn't helping that in any way. I think it fair to say that the vast majority of the players of RuneScape, while maybe not liking Jagex' seeming attitude towards autoers and/or the quality of some of their updates, nobody expected them to simply destroy a major segment of their game for little reason.

 

 

 

Like I said earlier, if I can't trust Jagex to at least use a sembelence of logic, they don't need (and won't get) my money. It'll go to some other company that can provide.

I've posted this before, and I'll post it again. Ever wonder why Jagex isn't even really touching skills? Look at the duel arena before. If you didn't adhere to a certain style of fighting you were "rule nub" if you lost you were "loser nub" if you win you were "cheater nub" etc etc. Also, they wanted people to work for their cash, not get it because you had a better connection to better players ( better reaction time -> 1st strike -> dead second person).

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe Jagex didn't want people to have a berjillion gp because they good stats, they wanted them to work for hours and hours, and finally have the satisfaction of getting that special item by yourself.

 

 

 

So they destroy the infected parts ( pking with lots of untradeable items, staking rule etc) so that the part they want to thrive, really gets going. If you want gp, heck, you go and get those box traps, or rcing equipment or whatever the hell you want to use, but for pete's sake, take a hint. [/b]

 

 

 

 

It would seem that you are in the minority, a lot of people on this thread are using the same rhetoric used by people berating politicians: 'they deceived us', 'they screwed everything up', 'they stole my cattle and gave my job to an immigrant'. People seem to think Jagex owes them something, rather than looking at the situation rationally, i.e: Jagex provides us a service in exchange for money. Sure you can walk away with your money but you don't really come across as sane if you're yelling abuse at the company as you walk away.

 

 

 

Edit:Oooh Oooh I meant to say: Qeltars topic is in part about Jagex's overreaction to a problem, I find it ironic that so many people are overreacting to that overreaction.

 

 

 

Edit2:Is it really a rationale course of action to abandon your account (because of a change that doesn't effect you) on principle ? What else has Jagex done recently that you feel was in the same vein as this update? If nothing you shouldn't really be considering quitting(over this).

 

 

 

By that i mean do you think Jagex has actually lost the plot and if so is it purely because of this update? (this edit is not aimed at adam007 or huta but at the thread in general).

A bit over the top on the war on terror analogy in my opinion.

 

 

 

One angle I didn't see in the article (had to skim through it, not enough time, ignore this post if it was mentioned): Jagex announcing in the behind the scenes of November that an incredibly awesome update is to happen in the new year.

 

 

 

Why did they announce it particularly in November? To soften the blow for the impopular decision to kill dueling? Something for people to look forward to and keep their membership until that update, despite November's updates. To protect their cashflow for the coming months? Just as American generals keep claiming small successes to ensure a steady flow of resources for their conintued effort.

 

 

 

P.S: Don't take this post too seriously, just providing the conspiracy theorists among us with some ammo :P

I have played since 2001, and I have never bashed an update and defended them all Until now.

 

 

 

Let me say the tournament mode is not bad, and it helped me waste 4 fun hours tonight. I did not stake prior. and I collected spinach rolls.

 

 

 

To prevent scamming, a 6 year old item was made untradeable, Moss giants drop them, Randoms drop them and the crystal chest gives them. because free players have no personal accountability and an effort is obviously being made to protect the children or the people who are dumb enough to fall privy to these scams.

 

 

 

My main question is, after paying for members since launch, pking in classic/rs2 and everything since then...Where does the line of eliminating cheating end and where does our freedoms begin ?

 

 

 

For the first time I am paranoid, I can see the wilderness being tampered with next, I can almost see trading being removed too, and this worries me. Fook you can honestly say you dont give a damn, thats fine, I did not give a damn when I was stat wiped on rsc for inactivity, then locked out, I supported jagex even though I was upset, This is where I draw mine line of enough and question the future and wonder whats next

 

 

 

I can see burnt food being untradeable, and currently I feel like if my favorite aspect of the game (pvp) is at risk to be abused by real world traders, The wilderness will be removed or made into a more pathethic version than it already is