totaly suspect update

 

i and a small team can give jagex over 5k bot names per hour jagex cant cope with the names we find

 

as a playermod i gave jagex info and two leads that would have put 2 gold farms out of bizzness(aprox 50k rwt) jagex banned the two informants.. there has to be reasons behind the dicision to bann 2 chars instead of 50k.probibal reason being over 500k rant posts in 1 day.bear in mind bots dont rant.

i saw the caddyshack metaphor/refference and realized that this topic is full of win.

i saw the caddyshack metaphor/refference and realized that this topic is full of win.

 

 

 

Qeltar did a very nice job

Good read, as always, Qeltar. Sums up my thoughts in a very organized, intelligent manner. I sure hope the guys over at Jagex Towers read this article, and do something about it.

 

 

 

I hope they throw it in the bin.

 

History proves that listening to players and their complaints merely screws it up more.

 

 

 

This post actually does more negative effect in the long run.

 

 

 

What? How could they possibly screw up staking more? They KILLED it.

 

 

 

Yes, your point being, what?

 

Stakers don't own RS, they need to shut up and get over it. And quick.

 

The comic raise up to 5k per 15 minutes should be a big sign, enough for even dumb people to understand that Jagex has made their decision, and if not respected, than stop playing. And by all means stop paying $5. I'm sure even Jagex would rather miss out on money than keep having a barrel of rotten apples intent on spoiling the bunch.

 

Fook, we understand that you think just dm'ing in the wild is fine, but jagex had a great system in place that people could all meet together and have duels. Whether or not a duel can occur in the wild like it would in the arena has no bearing. The point is that jagex had a great thing going for people. Those people invested a ton of time into it. And jagex just took it away and ruined the practicality of it, turning the duel arena into another gimmicky minigame. Just because it doesn't effect you doesn't mean it doesn't effect a lot of other people.

 

 

 

Qeltar, great article. I was thinking of writing something along the same lines, but you did a perfect job. Really though, with the way they're approaching rwt, what'll be next? Protecting us from drop trading by limiting us to only be able to drop 3k on the floor at once? Only allowing us to drop 1 item per hour? Making it so we can only drop items at certain predetermined locations? They've already made items like spinach rolls needlessly untradable, what else are they going to do? By taking these drastic measures to protect the 'honest players,' they're ruining the game for them. I can't help ask if the end really justify the means.

 

 

 

I understand that YOU think there was a stable duel system running.

 

 

 

But.

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has more money than someone level 99 smithing who worked for it?

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has BILLIONS worth in items, gained in few months, when someone else playing the exact same game for longer has practically nothing, seeing as the person wanted to .. hmm lets just say construct, or do smithing.

 

 

 

Where do those BILLIONS come from?

 

 

 

Somebody else's pocket.

qeltar get a life. :anxious: :P but seriously, i didnt read the whole thing, probably wont. but anyway jagex is doing what it can to clean up their game and i think the duel arena is fine, it's a fun part of the game and the new tournaments are also fun. that's why we play games, to have fun. and while we play runescape to skill or gain items, jagex has a game they play and that is combatting bots and gold farmers, look at it from their perspective.

 

 

 

killing two birds with 1 stone. making the game more fun and more about fun and limiting duel arena scamming and cheats. jagex are the stewards of their game and they want the game to be fair and not a bastion for cheats and scammers. and it's one step and there will be more.

 

 

 

if you really want to criticise, maybe compare jagex's non-megacorporate actions to those of the megacorporate congolomorates and their marketing and video gaming styles.

 

I'm just saying that its tasteless to mention 9/11 on a gaming forum that has nothing to do with it, much less draw parallels between the two, simply to try to win ppl over in a debate.

 

 

 

I would have to agree with this. That event is such a big thing, that mentioning it as a part of a debate, is very close to Godwin's law territory.

What i dont understand is why they think taking out one of the most profitable pass times in the game will hurt RWT. Players will no longer be able to make the large amounts of gp that they need to get those rares and might turn to RWT just to get them. Might not work like that but i wouldnt be the least surprised if it did.

 

 

 

meanwhile world of warcraft released things called "daily quests" a while back. they are quests that you can only do once a day and only a max of 10 different ones in one day. they had the sole purpose of giving players more money so they wouldnt have to buy gold-the opposite of what jagex seems to be doing. Blizzard has since announced that daily quests are destroying rwt successfully and players are happy because they have the ability to make more money THE HONEST PLAYERS.

 

I'm just saying that its tasteless to mention 9/11 on a gaming forum that has nothing to do with it, much less draw parallels between the two, simply to try to win ppl over in a debate.

 

 

 

I would have to agree with this. That event is such a big thing, that mentioning it as a part of a debate, is very close to Godwin's law territory.

 

 

 

The author is not using 9/11 tastelessly, or 9/11 at all to make his point. He is referencing the actions that the U.S. government has taken since then to make the country "more safe and secure", just like Jagex is placing a 3k cap on stakes. There was nothing tasteless at all about the author's choice of content.

Agrred. By the time Jagex gets rid of rule breakers, there will be nothing left to protect from them.

I have two (quite) off topic comments:

 

First: I surely think all that killing on the schools and university will continue too if we ban guns. Just as all those gun accidents. But I understand this is a debate on its own and I won't discuss is any further.

 

Second: Why does everyone here hate this change but didn't care about PC change? It's about the same IMO, they did something the majority didn't want and it ruined a good way of training for a lot of people.

 

 

 

The Pest Control update was needed... It was extremely overpowered experience and was not even meant to replace normal combat for training.

 

 

 

This update was absolutely unnecessary and extreme overkill.

 

Let me play the devils advocate for a bit:

 

Staking was extremely overpowered money making. It was multiple times better then many old fashion ways. And actually, if you were that good at it, it also replaced all the other moneymakers. Even worse, it dwarfed it.

 

The author is not using 9/11 tastelessly, or 9/11 at all to make his point. He is referencing the actions that the U.S. government has taken since then to make the country "more safe and secure", just like Jagex is placing a 3k cap on stakes. There was nothing tasteless at all about the author's choice of content.

 

 

 

I do not quibble with Qeltar's argument. The cap they set was arbitrarily low and there are much better methods for dealing with real world trading. While FooK-A-Ji found it tasteless, I am more reacting from a strictly rhetorical standpoint. Pulling out 9/11 as an example weakens the argument. That event is such a powerful and polarizing event in American culture. It is an event, which has been spun by many groups to so many ends that it is losing its power as a valid example. It is an example that should be used very very very sparingly. Qelter I respect you, but you lost me at 9/11.

When Jagex does nothing, everyone complains that bots and RWT's are ruling RuneScape.

 

When Jagex does something (drastic), everyone complains that bots and RWT's are ruling RuneScape.

 

The true impact of this update is not clear yet, I'm betting not that many will quit (they hardly never do), and they'll just get the combat levels and items to win the tournements.

 

 

 

If everyone is going crazy over this already, I wonder what the Grand Exchange will cause..

 

 

 

O.T.: To all the RS2 players that never knew RSC: I welcome you to seeing something vital to the game (catching/3 rounds - staking) be ruined by an update (RS2 - Duel Arena).

 

The author is not using 9/11 tastelessly, or 9/11 at all to make his point. He is referencing the actions that the U.S. government has taken since then to make the country "more safe and secure", just like Jagex is placing a 3k cap on stakes. There was nothing tasteless at all about the author's choice of content.

 

 

 

I do not quibble with Qeltar's argument. The cap they set was arbitrarily low and there are much better methods for dealing with real world trading. While FooK-A-Ji found it tasteless, I am more reacting from a strictly rhetorical standpoint. Pulling out 9/11 as an example weakens the argument. That event is such a powerful and polarizing event in American culture. It is an event, which has been spun by many groups to so many ends that it is losing its power as a valid example. It is an example that should be used very very very sparingly. Qelter I respect you, but you lost me at 9/11.

 

 

 

I understand where you're coming from now :)

This is just a typical case of "Man-Bear Pig" syndrome. I'm sure that Jagex will lose a whole lot of subcriptions in the form of staker accounts. The update confused me a bit when it was talking about the "player value" of items. Does that mean that you can't stake anything worth more thank 5k? If that is the case, there will be no point whatsoever to duel other than the joy of killing.

 

I do not quibble with Qeltar's argument. The cap they set was arbitrarily low and there are much better methods for dealing with real world trading. While FooK-A-Ji found it tasteless, I am more reacting from a strictly rhetorical standpoint. Pulling out 9/11 as an example weakens the argument. That event is such a powerful and polarizing event in American culture. It is an event, which has been spun by many groups to so many ends that it is losing its power as a valid example. It is an example that should be used very very very sparingly. Qelter I respect you, but you lost me at 9/11.

 

 

 

Lost me at 9/11 too. Very poor comparison. Otherwise a good read.

I agree with everything you have to say except the war with Iraq. But, this isn't IraqScape so we won't talk about it. Why don't Jagex as you stated, make the max around 250-400k GP. I mean, 3k? What the heck? Even I stake more then 3k. (About 10k :) ) And it's a annoying seeing them destroy a great aspect of the game, when they didn't have to. Even though I never stake, I still am hoping for, the next time I click to open SS, I'll see "Duel Arena Changes Erased" And everthing goes back to normal except for the tournament feature.

Very good article; intelligent and correct.

 

Jagex have killed the patient, but they have defibrulators if they use them in time :shock:.

 

hopefully Jagex will appreciate your 'banning guns' and 'war on terror' metaphors as much as i did. Its just so true.

 

 

 

I fear though jagex has got on its high horse :?

 

 

 

 

 

Good read, as always, Qeltar. Sums up my thoughts in a very organized, intelligent manner. I sure hope the guys over at Jagex Towers read this article, and do something about it.

 

 

 

I hope they throw it in the bin.

 

History proves that listening to players and their complaints merely screws it up more.

 

 

 

This post actually does more negative effect in the long run.

 

 

 

What? How could they possibly screw up staking more? They KILLED it.

 

 

 

Yes, your point being, what?

 

Stakers don't own RS, they need to shut up and get over it. And quick.

 

The comic raise up to 5k per 15 minutes should be a big sign, enough for even dumb people to understand that Jagex has made their decision, and if not respected, than stop playing. And by all means stop paying $5. I'm sure even Jagex would rather miss out on money than keep having a barrel of rotten apples intent on spoiling the bunch.

 

 

 

Fook a ji-

 

STFU

 

 

 

let me get this straight- stakers don't own the game, but the players have a say, whether directly (by voluntary contribution or gunarneteed content poll) or indirectly (by many ppl quitting and jagex reverting a bad decision).

 

And as a business, i'm sure overall, Jagex do care about the money more than afew rotten apples; they are no saviour holy martyrs for runescape, they are businessmen, good entrepeneurs if you will.

 

And i'm hoping for the sake of their bank accounts, they see sense and revert the change.

 

 

 

I'm no RWITer, but are they really rotten apples? or are they some guy in China trying to put food on the table, the only way they know how. Look at yourself man, and learn to goddam empathise.

 

 

 

This update effects everyone who plays runescape, don't be so ignorant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I understand that YOU think there was a stable duel system running.

 

 

 

But.

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has more money than someone level 99 smithing who worked for it?

 

Is it rational that a level 50 has BILLIONS worth in items, gained in few months, when someone else playing the exact same game for longer has practically nothing, seeing as the person wanted to .. hmm lets just say construct, or do smithing.

 

 

 

I'm sure you can see how imbalanced that is.

 

 

 

It was ridiculous that stakers, a mere different kind of fighter, with stats so obvious and so easy to get, could be the most powerful people in RS, moneywise.

 

Lets face it, its only because people can't make millions in a matter of minutes, that they whine like female dogs now. Well news flash, people played before staking was changed, and they certainly will AFTER. I know I will, and I hope that the ones who played for staking ONLY, actually do quit. Either that or stop whining.

 

 

 

Its obcious you understood nothing aobut subtlties of duelling; you think it was easy money?

 

There were subtle techniques thats took a long time to learn and become second nature; only the best became rich. the other million didn't. You think it was so easy, why didn't you do it? why didn't you become the best?

 

 

 

You complain about ppl making billions in afew hours and thats still possible if you become incredibly lucky at the godwars dungeon or loot a partyhat set. Both of these require incredible luck- the point of duelling is you control your own money, with your own skill and experience. Its not gambling when you control your chances and you can't complain that people have more skill than you- thats your fault.

 

The problem is now that skilled players have no outlet for their skill, so inevitably will move on to somewhere where they have an outlet-other games.

 

 

 

You complain about ppl who smith getting less money. Of course a shelf stacker gets less than a professional boxer. Go and become a communist.

 

 

 

You talk about thnis update as if it has actually stopped RWITing, the truth is, that runescape gold is worth more than ever, because RWITers have ppl under the impression that it is harder to trade across.

 

drop trading always has been here. And they use it now.

I've read this entire article, and for the most part, I'm going to disagree empathetically with everything that you've said here. Allow me to explain.

 

 

 

In your opening paragraphs, I notice that you say that, ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åthe predictable end result of misguided and ineffective efforts to stop crime is simply more harm and inconvenience to innocents, with little effect on the intended targetsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

Wall of text.

 

 

 

Okay, first of all, if the customer continues to give the company crap about the updates that they do painstakingly, they're going to tell them to "go the hell away", sooner or later.

 

 

 

Secondly, if Jagex cared about the money, then no member would be banned for breaking any rules.

 

 

 

Third, this update doesn't really affect me. I don't stake, but I do know stakers. If you think for a second that your $5 will affect the way that I play, think again.

 

 

 

Okay, first of all, we are not giving the company crap, we may just be trying to help them, as i'm sure advising them to make the right social and financial decisions will benefit both Jagex and their customers. We may come across as brutal, but we are trying to help jagex make a better game; and a better game means more profits and kudos for them.

 

 

 

Secondly, money is does come into it when banning members. for example if a member is known to be scamming, and he scams 5 people. If 3 of them quit because of it he has lost jagex more money than them just banning him after the first scam. Despite whatever may be said, they are businessmen and they make decisions which make their pockets heavier whether it be banning unprofitable players (rulebreakers) or making the game better.

 

 

 

Third, it does effect you...

 

Lets assume you hunt, and you go to the red chins today to find all the duellers have had to find other ways of making money, stealing all your chins.

 

 

 

Lets assume you mine and the rune rocks are full of ex-duellers moaning abonut the update and taking all your rocks. They have to find something else profitable to do.

 

 

 

Lets assume the duellers/other players quit, meaning alot less ppl on worlds, meaning less people to talk to, and slower respawn times.

 

 

 

Lets assume you runecraft and you think your unaffected because its not a competetive resource...WRONG! its a competetive market; prices go down because more people (ex duellers) are making nats for money now. Your stock of nats just lost 20% of their value.

 

 

 

Lets say you own a phat. Ppl used to use phats for staking against other phats to save problems deciding on a price to stake so phat for phat is fair right? People no longer have that use, prices go down. You just lost 100m of phat value. also ppl are quitting runescape, so before they go they are selling their phat fast and cheap so they can RWIT the gold they get from it.

 

 

 

The update has not stamped out RWITing, not atall.

First, thanks for all the replies, and for keeping the discussion mostly civil in my absence. It's a holiday weekend here in the US and I was traveling most of the day (busiest travel day of the whole year stateside.)

 

 

 

Many of the ideas that I mentioned in this article were bouncing around my head last night and this morning, and I felt I needed to get them "down on paper" while they were still fresh. The article was written in about 90 minutes, so no, it's not perfect.

 

 

 

In particular, I recognize that I used some potentially inflammatory analogies, and I also realize that some people are incapable of seeing an analogy in proper context, and assume that the author is trying to say that the two compared situations are the same or similar. That is clearly NOT what I was trying to do; as one poster here rightly pointed out, the parallels simply relate to the matter of overreaction, and how trying hard to stop a group from destroying something can lead to destroying it oneself. I do not believe that it weakens the argument for those who understand logical analogy, and that was my target audience.

 

 

 

I'll respond to Makoto separately. Thanks to all who replied, I do appreciate it, just can't reply to everyone.

 

In your opening paragraphs, I notice that you say that, ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åthe predictable end result of misguided and ineffective efforts to stop crime is simply more harm and inconvenience to innocents, with little effect on the intended targetsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

I have a feeling that Jagex well relent and change it. That thread has over 20k posts now, which may be a record, given how long the thread has been up for. I realize that probably a fifth of them are spam, but most of the RS population is incensed because of this update, and it doesn't only affect stakers. It affected the whole economy, as the fallout crushed the market on "novelty items," such as Godswords and Bandos Armor, since staking was one of the primary avenues for obtaining enough cash to afford said items. Also, the prices on middle-class items such as barrows are on the rise, likely because of this update as well. People can no longer make lucrative amounts of cash easily, so the demand on less expensive items is rising, causing the price to rise.

i feel glad that the people that make staker accounts feel they wasted the time because most, not all, would put thier winnings onto their main account; which is against the rules. The got what they were deserving.

 

 

 

 

 

note: i am not saying all stakers do that, and the ones that dont, dont deserve to feel their time was wasted

That was a very good read and you put up very good points. :