First price changes, updated

[meili]

Personally... I'm hating these new prices. Yesterday nats were 280 ea, now they're 270 ea... the price drops really seem to be getting out of hand. People are just putting their stuff up there for the lowest possible price to sell their stuff faster, and that just drives the prices down further.

 

 

 

That is what I said would happen. People want to sell fast, otherwise what is the point of having GE? If they wanted slow trading, they would do it through player to player trades. This is also how it is on other games, you can barely sell things unless it is the bottom price (if they use automated systems like GE) since the system or the player will of course search out the lowest price first.

 

 

 

Eventually things will reach their absolute bottom price where people will simply refuse to sell because it is too low but until then most common materials will be going down, IMHO.

[qeltar]

 

Eventually things will reach their absolute bottom price where people will simply refuse to sell because it is too low but until then most common materials will be going down, IMHO.

 

 

 

The prices will drop until they are attractive to buyers, and then they will stabilize. That would have happened immediately except that the price controls are making it happen in "slow motion".

 

 

 

I think it's also fair to point out that many items have had higher prices than they really should have because there was no way to sell them. Prices on less common items were rarely sold and then only when somebody needed one, so they were willing to pay more. Now that people are "cleaning out their banks" many items will drop in price until they reach a more reasonable level.

[o_knames]

The way I look at it, Jagex could only make an educated guess as to market value for every tradeable item in the game. It would be totally unrealistic to expect them to be correct on every single item.

 

 

 

For the ones they got wrong just think of it this way: the Grand Exchange was released only for those items where Jagex correctly assessed market value. Where they were wrong, those item trades will be released as the GE values adjust to get them within the 5% range.

[icecube]

The way I look at it, Jagex could only make an educated guess as to market value for every tradeable item in the game. It would be totally unrealistic to expect them to be correct on every single item.

 

 

 

For the ones they got wrong just think of it this way: the Grand Exchange was released only for those items where Jagex correctly assessed market value. Where they were wrong, those item trades will be released as the GE values adjust to get them within the 5% range.

 

But instead of the GE value adjusting to the item prices, it happened the other way around.

 

 

 

Many people believe the GE values over actual values, so they sell items on forums for higher prices, thus raising the item's real value again.

 

 

 

I guess it happens with every update, but that just shows another fault of the 5% price range.

[chris1216]

So, on one hand, you're just saying that the GE isn't adjusting prices quickly enough, even though you fail yet again to actually provide examples of how MOST items experience more than 5 percent swings in price EACH DAY.

 

 

 

 

 

And then on the other hand, you're spouting these fairly irrational conspiracy theories about how Jagex is "trying to take control" or "making a control grab"....for a game they own....which is still disproven by the fact that price changes are occurring (albeit slowly, see above for why that's not horrible), and that Jagex is asking for help in making sure prices are on-target for the market....in the RSOF thread you posted.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you always shoot yourself in the foot like this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Eventually things will reach their absolute bottom price where people will simply refuse to sell because it is too low but until then most common materials will be going down, IMHO.

 

 

 

The prices will drop until they are attractive to buyers, and then they will stabilize. That would have happened immediately except that the price controls are making it happen in "slow motion".

 

 

 

I think it's also fair to point out that many items have had higher prices than they really should have because there was no way to sell them. Prices on less common items were rarely sold and then only when somebody needed one, so they were willing to pay more. Now that people are "cleaning out their banks" many items will drop in price until they reach a more reasonable level.

[Latinoking]

They should of done more research in setting the original prices....

 

 

 

or copy and paste them from zybez

[SwreeTak]

Thank you for all the information. A lot of merchanters will have good use for it :)

[Chumley]

 

Its not like JageX is changing the prices manually.

 

 

 

Aren't they?

 

 

 

In another thread you have been very critical of Jagex for getting the initial pricing on some items off market prices. Now, you are being critical of them for trying to adjust the prices to be closer to market prices.

 

 

 

If you are going to be so critical about what a lot of people (me included) think is a great update, at least be consistent.

[qeltar]

 

Its not like JageX is changing the prices manually.

 

 

 

Aren't they?

 

 

 

In another thread you have been very critical of Jagex for getting the initial pricing on some items off market prices. Now, you are being critical of them for trying to adjust the prices to be closer to market prices.

 

 

 

If you are going to be so critical about what a lot of people (me included) think is a great update, at least be consistent.

 

 

 

If you read my article, then you'd understand my objection is with Jagex's attempt to be the Central Authority of All Runescape Prices. So I am being entirely consistent.

 

 

 

The system itself here is the problem. The market should be allowed to set prices, not half-baked guesses and partial corrections.

[Mark_560]

Partyhats and other discontinued items have seen a significant price decrease since this update was released. I believe a purple partyhat was around 185M before the Grand Exchange. It is now down to around 140M.

 

 

 

It was a good update, but it has caused many items to decrease in price, rather than having a more stable economy. I think the limit of 5% above/below the price for the boundaries is too much.

 

 

 

Judging by the amount of feedback and thoughts about this update, I can see a few changes happening to this next week.

[tetrak]

 

Its not like JageX is changing the prices manually.

 

 

 

Aren't they?

 

 

 

In another thread you have been very critical of Jagex for getting the initial pricing on some items off market prices. Now, you are being critical of them for trying to adjust the prices to be closer to market prices.

 

 

 

If you are going to be so critical about what a lot of people (me included) think is a great update, at least be consistent.

 

 

 

The system self updates. Even if players keep selling at the lowest price which will lower the prices, they'll eventually be tired of getting the such low benefits, and will instead take the normal price, maybe even the higher. It's automatic, even if it'll take a bit, it'll eventually stabilize.

[monte]

 

The system itself here is the problem. The market should be allowed to set prices, not half-baked guesses and partial corrections.

 

 

 

This market should be allowed to set prices? Seriously? The same market that is over-saturated with gp and items to begin with? With the bulk of that wealth being concentrated in a small percentage?

 

 

 

If the GE opened yesterday without restrictions, I don't even want to think about where prices for alot of items would be today.

 

 

 

...and half-baked guesses? I mean they missed the initial mark on a few items but overall given that there are, what, 7000+ items in the db I think they did OK.

 

 

 

I like you writings over on your site but I think in your 'open market' crusade, you are missing the reasons that it wouldn't work in rs.... atleast not initially.

[qeltar]

 

This market should be allowed to set prices? Seriously? The same market that is over-saturated with gp and items to begin with? With the bulk of that wealth being concentrated in a small percentage?

 

 

Yeah. Seriously.

 

 

 

The market can't be over-saturated with both items AND money -- doesn't make sense. And the bulk of the wealth is not with a small percentage, even if a small percentage has a lot of money.

 

 

If the GE opened yesterday without restrictions, I don't even want to think about where prices for alot of items would be today.

 

 

They'd be where they should be. All that is going to happen now is that there will be a slow, painful ride down in prices.

 

 

...and half-baked guesses? I mean they missed the initial mark on a few items but overall given that there are, what, 7000+ items in the db I think they did OK.

 

 

They did okay in that most are not ridiculously wrong. But because the trading range is too narrow (5%?) this magnifies even small errors. And that's why most items just sit on the exchange without selling.

[quitthegame]

 

If you read my article, then you'd understand my objection is with Jagex's attempt to be the Central Authority of All Runescape Prices. So I am being entirely consistent.

 

 

 

The system itself here is the problem. The market should be allowed to set prices, not half-baked guesses and partial corrections.

 

 

 

Qeltar, I mainly agree with you, but your arguments are presented in such a mixed-up fashion, and repeated so often, that it's quite confusing.

 

 

 

There are 3 different issues here, which you aren't really keeping as distinct as they need to be for clear presentation.

 

 

 

#1 Jagex is attempting to prevent RWT through the GE. This is why they don't allow browsing through offers as WoW's AH does. This is actually a good idea, both in practice and in theory. Because the second offerer gains the benefit of the price difference, knowing the existing prices wouldn't make the market any freer, it would only make collusion easier. I would guess that the reason Jagex wants RWT to be impossible through the GE is that they don't want to have to manually police the transactions through the GE. If the GE becomes the main method for item transfer, than it will be much easier for Jagex to police the 20% of trades that don't take place through the GE, just because the volume will be so much less. I wouldn't be surprised if additional restrictions are added to non-GE trades though.

 

 

 

#2 The second issue is that Jagex is attempting to prevent the GE for being used in price manipulation. This is why the automatic price adjustments are done so slowly. I agree with you that this is unnecessary and removes some fun from the game, but to call it socialism is totally wrong! Cartels and price manipulation is not a feature of a free market, intervention to prevent cartels and monopolies are the one thing governments DO in a laissez-faire model. In practice they usually don't prevent them, but that's because cartels know how to lobby--but sometimes they do. Also, realistically once the prices have become a bit more stable, 5% a day is enough for most non-manipulatory cases. Sure, if some update affects the supply or demand of an item and the prices double or halve, it will take 2 weeks for the GE to be useful again for that item, but there are (at least currently) many other venues to pick up the slack on that ONE item until the GE adjusts. While I think it would be more fun if Jagex hadn't attempted to control price manipulation in this fashion, it will at least be interesting to see how well it works, and how people will attempt to get around the restrictions.

 

 

 

#3 The third issue is that many of the initial prices are totally nuts. This is really rather irrelevant, a small fact to be noted and not debated, and by repeating it so often you are weakening the logical structure of your arguments.

 

 

 

In summation, I agree with you that the market should update way faster, but I believe that some of the anti-RWT features of the GE make sense and I ask you to consider both sides of the argument--i.e. give us an example of how to control RWT without requiring human supervision in a GE that doesn't have temporary price boundaries and allows browsing and choice of offers.

[monte]

 

If the GE opened yesterday without restrictions, I don't even want to think about where prices for alot of items would be today.

 

 

They'd be where they should be. All that is going to happen now is that there will be a slow, painful ride down in prices.

 

 

 

 

Think of it as a slow, cushy ride down (or up) in prices. :P

 

 

 

It's exactly what Jagex intended and exactly what this economy needed IMO. I don't believe that the large majority of the rs population (read: too young) would have been able to understand the initial and perhaps inevitable wild prices swings that would have accompanied an open-market GE. Forums would have been littered with comments about an item was bought at price one day and it was selling for amount less the next, followed by a series of rants about the GE that would likely have rivaled the staker rants. It probably would have been pretty chaotic

 

 

 

Prices wouldn't be where they should be in one day. In fact, it's entirely possible that it would have taken just as much time for things to settle into stable market prices as it will now.

 

 

 

So I think the way the GE was implemented is good for rs as a whole even if it doesn't get to where it needs to be in a day (or a week).

[Harrington]

Rune boots - 81k (and I still can't sell them lol)

 

Rune Xbow - 29k

 

Rings of Forging - 2.7k

 

G Maul - 90k

 

Black Mystic Top - 151k

 

Rune arrows - 380ea (I used to sell at 300)

 

Steel arrows - 32ea (but I still can't sell at this lowest price)

[rip400]

non of the rare items haveen been adjusted in price ....

[Mstrling70]

Qeltar,

 

 

 

Choice #1: Jagex influences the trading market by imposing controls and restriction.

 

 

 

Choice #2: Gold farming organizations with thousands on the payroll use their purchasing power, massive amounts of materials, and their interconnected network of individuals to control the market to their advantage.

 

 

 

That's it. There is no choice #3.

 

 

 

In theory, the free market system is best, but that's just it, free markets only exist in theory, not in the real world. Jagex has based their controls on the New York Stock Exchange. After the crash in October of 1987, they put in controls to slow the market when things get out of hand. When the value rises or drops past a certain percentage, the computer trading is automatically slowed. If things don't improve, trading is stopped altogether. This system has kicked in a few times since then, and has worked, particularly in the days following 9/11. These rules benefit the market, even though they are artificial controls.

 

 

 

Your argument is sound, but unrealistic given the reality of gold farming.

[Shadowcheval]

Expect more updates like that soon :P They obviously can't get them all right at once.

With the market price guides currently available on fansites, I think they should have been a lot more accurate to begin with. We shouldn't be waiting for the prices of commonly bought and sold items to "stabilize" ..they already were stable before the GE

 

 

 

Exactly. There was never any need to "stabilize" anything. This is just a control grab, nothing more.

 

 

 

What?? You're saying that the introduction of a market that is truly global will not affect prices? I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you were thinking there...

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

they ruined prices for steel bars...

 

If by ruined you mean made affordable for smiths like me then yes ^_^

 

What?? You're saying that the introduction of a market that is truly global will not affect prices? I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you were thinking there...

 

Merging the F2P and P2P economies has led to a drastic reduction in death and nature rune pricing as well as almost infinite availability. This was a great idea.

[chaosgone]

How much are steel bars now?

[aafftteerr]

ranarr went down, 7600 to 7260, clean ranarr. Dirty went down to, currently the lowest setting for ranarr is like 6950. These prices are gonna be horrible for the next few days, people only sold them at 7260 cause it was fast. people better not accept anything much lower than that, profits going down :wall:

[whocares]

Apperently the people at jagex don't even know what the market price for gold bars is. It's been going for 100-200ea on the forum (200 ea is a stretch) and they put it for 210 ea the lowest.

 

 

 

This makes it imposssible to sell gold bars. I've had them up for the lowest possible price for over 24 hours and nothing..

[backstreetboy]

Bs= Far too low!

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

Apperently the people at jagex don't even know what the market price for gold bars is. It's been going for 100-200ea on the forum (200 ea is a stretch) and they put it for 210 ea the lowest.

 

 

 

This makes it imposssible to sell gold bars. I've had them up for the lowest possible price for over 24 hours and nothing..

 

 

 

I actually bought 533 at that price yesterday, and boy do I feel dumb now.