?Ã�Æ�ââ�¬Å¡Ã�â��Ã�¿?Ã�Æ�ââ�¬Å¡Ã�â��Ã�¿?Ã�Æ�ââ�¬Å¡Ã�â��Ã�¿ Why Jagex Killed Staking ?Ã�Æ�ââ�¬Å

[Mayjest]

If this scenario is likely (which I am reserving judgement on), then it's possible that it has already happened, with the deul arena updates in response.

 

 

 

Basically, someone already sued Jagex, and Jagex agreed to change the duel arena as part of the settlement deal. It would explain the rush job on the tournaments, as it would give the changes a veil of legitimacy.

 

 

 

However, whether this actually happened or not... I do not know.

[Samurai_1909]

Whoever wrote this hasn't got the foggiest how English law works unfortunately.

 

 

 

1) Jagex has a near watertight disclaimer - that is more than enough to protect it - you forget that Jagex is a incredibly rich company, more than capable of hiring top lawyers.

 

 

 

2) The simple fact is the logic doesn't follow - trying to sue Jagex because people lost money in it would be like credit card companies trying to sue casinos when their customers lose money, it just doesn't work like that.

 

 

 

3) There is one HELL of a jump from "people buy gold" -> "people are usually 12-17" -> this gold is usually bought with a fraudulent credit card. That is one hell of an assumption to make - I had a internet-viable card from 14 which I could have used I assume, such a huge leap in reasoning cannot be made without evidential basis.

 

 

 

Sorry, but the theory is incorrect.

 

+1

 

In any case, 3k every 15 mins is ridiculous. The price cap should have been a lot higher, at least 300k or so.

[Emofury]

Good points to all of u :P

 

I dno, it just seemed like it made sence to me lol #-o

[mr_tiddles]

Lets face it, while some of this is probably true, Jagex certainly wasn't lying about gp farming happening also.

 

 

 

I believe that if you really think you are tough enough, stop staking and take your party hats out to the wilderness! I would love to pound you for a few... (Don't forget your gps also, I need more of them too)

 

 

 

:thumbsup:

[BBC3]

good theory, im pretty sure everyone on rs makes 200mil per day, couldnt think of a better way to put it.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

This makes perfect sense now! Thank you for sharing that! :thumbsup:

 

I think there is some truth behind it. I do know people who staked and sold thier profits (but it would be like 20m a day instead of 200m). I'm sure this isn't realy a common practice though and I wish they would raise the cap.

 

That makes perfect sense, and to be honest I don't think people should even be making 300m a day even for legitimate use like skilling. ...

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

And it is this obvious disconnect between what Jagex claims is its motivation and simple logic that leads people to disbelieve what they say.

 

 

 

The company is not being honest.

 

Lets face it, while some of this is probably true ...

 

 

 

Listen. You all fail, epically. None of you are really satisfied with the answer that they got from Jagex, so you turned to a THIRD PARTY [who has no proof, mind you; it's just believable opinion] and you feel that this answer better justifies the stance that Jagex took.

 

 

 

Let me tell you all something. You're wrong.

 

 

 

I can't deny that Jagex's limit on staking is a bit constrained, but I don't have the evidence to disprove their claims or doubt their true motive. So until any of you simpletons can provide real proof from someone from Jagex that their motive was to kill staking once and for all, don't say a damn thing about their "true" motive. You can't prove it, so stop blowin' hot air around.

[kunasako]

Listen. You all fail, epically. None of you are really satisfied with the answer that they got from Jagex, so you turned to a THIRD PARTY [who has no proof, mind you; it's just believable opinion] and you feel that this answer better justifies the stance that Jagex took.

 

 

 

Let me tell you all something. You're wrong.

 

 

 

I can't deny that Jagex's limit on staking is a bit constrained, but I don't have the evidence to disprove their claims or doubt their true motive. So until any of you simpletons can provide real proof from someone from Jagex that their motive was to kill staking once and for all, don't say a damn thing about their "true" motive. You can't prove it, so stop blowin' hot air around.

 

 

 

Woah! Someone honestly needs a chill-pill...

 

 

 

It doesn't take a lot of brainpower to understand that though this might not be cold hard fact, it does make LOGICAL sense, and is likely ONE OF the many reasons Jagex decided to do what it did.

 

 

 

Some people need to see beyond the screen and realize problems can overflow into REAL LIFE if they get out of hand.

 

 

 

As to 3% of all players quitting because of all this? Thats just laughable for many reasons, the first being that just because you don't play for a week doesn't mean you've quit.

 

 

 

PS. I'm referring to the original quoted text not anything else said on the rest of this thread.

[Voldmort0]

Yeah, everyone seems to be looking for conspiracy in the most innocent of actions.

 

It's hardly all that innocent. It spoiled one of the most fun parts of the game as well as one good way of money making.

[highlanders]

These people are buying massive amounts of RS gold that they gamble with.

 

 

 

Winners here can make thousands of dollars, but losers LOSE thousands of dollars. This creates a series of VERY real, legitimate problems for Runescape:

 

The people incurring debt are doing it illegally using the product of Jagex, and Jagex had to be aware of this.

 

The people incurring debt are often 12-17 years old, and are not legally liable for these debts incurred.

 

These kids rack up big deficits on fraudulently created credit cards, which are then defaulted.

 

These credit card companies are NOT going to take their losses quietly.

 

 

 

 

 

So when this spiral of abuse and casino-style mass loss transpires, who do credit card companies, personal lawyers (in a society where no one has personal accountability) and surprised (and debt-liable) parents who recently incurred a 5,000 RS gold bill turn?

 

 

Everything made perfect sense until this part, this part which also is the part on which the whole thing is based on. -.-

 

 

 

These people are buying massive amounts of RS gold that they gamble with.

 

 

So basically this guy is telling us that everyone that gets "cleaned" in the duel arena gets back on their feet by buying Runescape gold with real money. Now that's one arrogant claim. No doubt some people do it, but that's a mignority. That guy's wrong if he thinks every kid playing Runescape can afford to buy Runescape gold, or even has a credit card, people even seem to have trouble supplying the 5 dollars a month for membership. -.-

 

 

 

These kids rack up big deficits on fraudulently created credit cards, which are then defaulted.

 

 

 

This statement is made out of all sorts of lols. First off, the guy's wrong if he thinks people are ready to risk going to jail for fraud just for Runescape gp. Yes, and even more wrong to assume everyone who loses at the duel arena is stupid enough to create massive debts, while it is clearly their character, or playing style that is deficient. Only someone really stupid would do the same thing over and over again expecting different results. And the final blow, how exactly would your everybody guy find a way to create credit cards fraudulently, because you gotta be one heck of an expert to be able to actually create those, if that's even possible. When people refer to credit card fraud they mean people stealing another person's credit card number, not creating them, yep, even the profesionalls don't even try to create :roll: cards, they just steal them. So really, I'll just ignore than nonsense and assume he meant stolen credit card numbers. Very little people can steal credit cards. Honestly, nobody would risk prison for runescape game money. If somebody has the technical knowledge to steal credit card numbers, they'd rather find ways to steal Runescape passwords instead.

 

 

 

They turn to Jagex.

 

 

That's simply not how things work, god that is such a stupid statement. Jagex wouldn't get in trouble, at all. Why? It's OBVIOUS, the transactions with the stolen credit card numbers are with the gold farmers (million of little sparkles) not Jagex. The credit card company has no choice but to pay to the gold farmers the money, and usually ask the merchant (gold farmer) to pay a small percentage. And the person whose credit card was stolen may also have to pay a small fee because their credit card was stolen. But apart from that, the credit card company just lives with the losses, they make tons of money anyway, fraud losses don't really bother them.

[monkeyboo2]

That makes perfect sense, and to be honest I don't think people should even be making 300m a day even for legitimate use like skilling.

 

 

 

But that dosen't change the fact that the 3k cap is completely ridiculous. They could change it to 500k every 15 minutes and most of this "gambling" AND "covert RWTing" would still be stopped, since the cash/day wouldn't be that high and it would be more convenient for RWTers to use the trade system to transfer mills.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

And it is this obvious disconnect between what Jagex claims is its motivation and simple logic that leads people to disbelieve what they say.

 

 

 

The company is not being honest.

 

 

 

I am fully in support of Jagex stopping the huge high-stakes gambling that was going on at the DA. I am NOT in support of them destroying reasonable staking and then lying about why they did it.

 

 

 

I do not think that staking is gambling.

 

Gambling is when you bet on something that is completely out of your control; staking is betting on yourself to use skill to win.

 

 

 

OK, some people did do complete luck stakes, (dds+whip fights) LOL, and that was perhaps gambling, but atleast 70% of fights were staked not gambled. Of course there is an element of luck, with RS's combat system, but skill is dominant.

 

 

 

If Jagex was under any pressure to remove so called gambling from the game, they were misguided in removing staking...

 

 

 

When you go to the KBD, thats risking your items to gain more, but is it gambling? i don't think so. Losing is almost completely user controlled.

 

 

 

Anyway, fortunately i don't think they did it to get rid of gambling, but as they said to remove RWITing (which fails without the removal/limitation of trading and dropping aswell).

[icecube]

The best definition I found of gambling in today's society is:

 

Wagering money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods".

 

 

 

Now I think that applies to staking pretty well. Even if your skills are good/better, luck plays a huge part in duels.

 

 

 

Who's this article by? How do we KNOW this was JaGEx's intent?

[Zibl]

Turns out that the public just won't believe the truth even when it's given to them in plain English.

 

 

 

[You can't accept what Jagex said, so you're willing to listen to any cockamamie theory that anyone else has. Absolutely pathetic.]

 

 

 

Yeah, everyone seems to be looking for conspiracy in the most innocent of actions.

 

 

 

+1. I never blamed Jagex for the update. I always knew Jagex had a very good reason for killing it off, but I never thought that deeply into it. Of course, it all makes sense now and I agree with Jagex 100%. I mean come on guys... get rid of high staking or later on down the road POSSIBLY end up losing Runescape all together?

[Altricious]

Um, this may seem like a stupid statement, but why is everyone assuming that Jagex is not referring to players selling their DA profits for real world cash when they say they made the changes to stop real world trading?

 

 

 

It seems to me that from Jagex's point of view, this is all the same thing. If I use my US$ to buy RS items or gold, that's a real world trade. If I get US$ for my RS items or gold, that's also a real world trade.

 

 

 

I think everyone took the most obvious definition of using the duel arena for trading when they read Jagex's explanation. That meant presuming faked fights and planned losses. It's just as likely that they meant to shut down conditions that fueled the real world trading such as people winning more than they could ever use/spend and people losing so much that they felt like it was impossible to start over without going outside the game.

 

 

 

Of course, it's just a theory. You know Jagex will never be more elaborate in stating their reasons.

 

 

 

As a side note, I'm not one to gamble like that (and yes, I do think of it as gambling) but I still think the cap is rather low. Such a drastic change will affect the entire climate of the DA and it will take some time for the players to adjust.

[InkofDeath]

Turns out that the public just won't believe the truth even when it's given to them in plain English.

 

 

 

[You can't accept what Jagex said, so you're willing to listen to any cockamamie theory that anyone else has. Absolutely pathetic.]

 

Even though this article is a generalization of someone's own mind? Even though this object could be completely off, your willing to listen to it, and call it the truth?

 

 

 

Yes, your not contradicting yourself, good job.

[honeo]

I see how people can believe this, but no, it's wrong.

 

 

 

Jagex's motive is clearly stated on runescape.com. They are attempting to stop real world trading. Even though their attempt is not even making a dent.

[bizzyboy]

u telling me its because i can make 15 m + per 30 min then trade it for 30 real us dollar they removed staking ? , so , the next step is wildy ? they gonna cut the wildy out of the map and when ppl will say , what where is the wildy , jagex will say " wilderness , what is thats , never heard thats before " then , 2 week after , they gonan cut the nature crafting because a lil japonese is payed 25 cen per hour and make to his boss 1.75 cent per hour ? .....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ps , read under !!!

[lordkrohn1626]

ahhhhhhhh love how all the alarmists come out of the woodwork after EACH and EVERY update...."It's the end of the world! quick sell your barrows!"

[bizzyboy]

ahhhhhhhh love how all the alarmists come out of the woodwork after EACH and EVERY update...."It's the end of the world! quick sell your barrows!"

 

 

 

 

 

talking about me ???

 

 

 

been 7 years i play rs ( not a geek i do play around 10-12 hour a week )

 

 

 

in the last 6-10 month they do try to have the power on everything . they dont want anyone to make easy money , dueling , done , merchanting ? , done , wildy gonan be cut out of the map i can bet on thats ....

[lordkrohn1626]

ahhhhhhhh love how all the alarmists come out of the woodwork after EACH and EVERY update...."It's the end of the world! quick sell your barrows!"

 

 

 

 

 

talking about me ???

 

 

 

been 7 years i play rs ( not a geek i do play around 10-12 hour a week )

 

 

 

in the last 6-10 month they do try to have the power on everything . they dont want anyone to make easy money , dueling , done , merchanting ? , done , wildy gonan be cut out of the map i can bet on thats ....

 

 

 

Wasn't specifically talking to you, not that I care if you took it that way. After every update the forums fill up within seconds by all the alarmists crying about how the game is now ruined and they will quit etc etc etc.....but, no wasn't talking to you......unless the shoe fits, if so then yes. Didnt bother to pull up all of your or anyone else's posts to see if you or they fit that description, I was speaking in general.

[bizzyboy]

sorry then , just because ur post was after me ...

 

 

 

the shoes dont fit :P

[lordkrohn1626]

sorry then , just because ur post was after me ...

 

 

 

the shoes dont fit :P

 

 

 

:thumbsup:

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Turns out that the public just won't believe the truth even when it's given to them in plain English.

 

 

 

[You can't accept what Jagex said, so you're willing to listen to any cockamamie theory that anyone else has. Absolutely pathetic.]

 

Even though this article is a generalization of someone's own mind? Even though this object could be completely off, your willing to listen to it, and call it the truth?

 

 

 

Yes, your not contradicting yourself, good job.

 

 

 

I guess you didn't get my play on words. What I meant (and thought I clarified at the bottom) was that people are just willing to listen to whatever someone else's opinion is and believe that to be the true reasoning behind what Jagex did.

 

 

 

ahhhhhhhh love how all the alarmists come out of the woodwork after EACH and EVERY update...."It's the end of the world! quick sell your barrows!"

 

 

 

I'm putting this quote in my signature. Lordkrohn, PM me if you don't mind me using your name in it.

[qeltar]

 

Listen. You all fail, epically.

 

...

 

I can't deny that Jagex's limit on staking is a bit constrained, but I don't have the evidence to disprove their claims or doubt their true motive. So until any of you simpletons can provide real proof from someone from Jagex that their motive was to kill staking once and for all, don't say a damn thing about their "true" motive. You can't prove it, so stop blowin' hot air around.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

 

 

It must be nice to be so naive that you will blindly believe anything that is spouted off at you by a billion dollar corporation. I'm sure they really appreciate having lots of fanboyz running interference for them.

 

 

 

Because gee, we all know a corporation would never lie to its customers, right? :roll:

 

 

 

The evidence that Jagex isn't being forthright has been provided by the update itself. There is no sane person who could possibly believe that staking had to be dropped all the way down to 12k per hour to stop RWT, when 10x that figure would have worked just as well.

 

 

 

Blind trust of authority figures is for children and fools. Intelligent, wise individuals maintain a healthy skepticism in such matters.

 

 

 

As for me personally, Jagex lost most of the benefit of the doubt that it previously had when it tried to legalize luring and then cover it up with a giant self-serving smokescreen. I still try to be fair when it is warranted, and to give credit where credit is due, but when it is obvious that something else is going on, you bet I'm going to call them on it.

 

 

I guess you didn't get my play on words. What I meant (and thought I clarified at the bottom) was that people are just willing to listen to whatever someone else's opinion is and believe that to be the true reasoning behind what Jagex did.

 

 

Yes, and some people swallow anything Jagex dangles in front of them -- hook, line and sinker.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Qeltar, you should probably reread what you've quoted. I want some hard evidence that curbing a teen gambling addiction (or any other wild theory) could be another cause. Doubting them just because you can't forgive them for allowing (then disallowing) luring is not only unwise, it's childish.

 

 

 

I have no reason not to give them the benefit of the doubt in this case. I can't prove that Jagex really wanted to stop 'Scapers from a staking/gambling addiction (since, in my years of playing I haven't seen it mentioned ONCE on RuneScape.com), so I have to take their word for it. I may distrust their word, but I can't find any evidence to tell me otherwise.

 

 

 

Oh, and in regards to you telling me that I accepted what they told me, hook line and sinker -- you'd better check yourself, Pot. Find the true reasons before you find a reason to question my logic.

[qeltar]

I want some hard evidence that curbing a teen gambling addiction (or any other wild theory) could be another cause. Doubting them just because you can't forgive them for allowing (then disallowing) luring is not only unwise, it's childish.

 

 

Good lord.

 

 

 

The issue of luring has nothing to do with forgiving, it has to do with credibility. It's only wise to assess honesty based on past history, and they were VERY deceptive in dealing with that issue.

 

 

 

If a corporation has made its mind up to hide the true reason for doing something, they aren't going to provide you with direct and obvious contradictions to their positions on a silver platter. You have to use your brain, look at the clues and read between the lines.

 

 

 

I am far from a conspiracy theorist, but everything about this update is starting to point VERY clearly towards this not being about RWT.

 

 

 

I'll ask you this simple question. If RS gold is worth $3/mil, then if the cap on staking had been made 50k per 15 minutes, it would take 5 hours of staking to transfer $3 worth of gold. Do you think any RWTer would bother doing that?

 

 

 

If the answer is "yes", I can only boggle. If it's "no", then can you please tell me why Jagex would set the dueling cap to less than 10% of that already low figure?

 

 

I have no reason not to give them the benefit of the doubt in this case. I can't prove that Jagex really wanted to stop 'Scapers from a staking/gambling addiction (since, in my years of playing I haven't seen it mentioned ONCE on RuneScape.com), so I have to take their word for it. I may distrust their word, but I can't find any evidence to tell me otherwise.

 

 

The evidence is right in front of your nose.

 

 

 

Here's more:

 

 

 

 

What do you expect, for Andrew to come out and contradict every one of his employees in public? Well, he ended up doing EXACTLY that with the luring debacle, but it took a month, so there's still plenty of time.