Is God real post your thoughts!

[Lenticular_J]

Also John 14:6 doesn't agree with you as it states that the only way to god (ie heaven) is through jesus.

 

The "(ie heaven)" part is not in John 14:6. That would be - what? Your own interpretation. A literal interpretation of that would be that the only way to reach God is to walk through Jesus.

 

 

 

Nobody takes the Bible literally period, as that would be stupid, as I've illustrated. If you can point me to the cult that worships Jesus as being a door, I'll see what they're up to.

[Utopianflame]

Also John 14:6 doesn't agree with you as it states that the only way to god (ie heaven) is through jesus.

 

The "(ie heaven)" part is not in John 14:6. That would be - what? Your own interpretation. A literal interpretation of that would be that the only way to reach God is to walk through Jesus.

 

 

 

Nobody takes the Bible literally period, as that would be stupid, as I've illustrated. If you can point me to the cult that worships Jesus as being a door, I'll see what they're up to.

 

 

 

 

 

As much as I would wish that no one takes the bible literally, people do. Here is one fairly prominent site of such people http://www.answersingenesis.org/ . Regrettably there are others (brother randy at T-4-C springs painfully to mind). You are right it is my own intepretation, but god is supposed to be in heaven, correct?

[Saru Inc]

Cup_lion, I dont and have not. Although some people do. Literal was not the best choice of word (whether it is, or you believe it to be, inerrant is important though) a better word for the question would be complete.

 

 

 

Accepting that the bible is not literal does however create its own problem, beyond the obvious ones, who chooses which sections are literal and which are not?

 

 

 

As for gods idea of justice i'm afraid I have had a rather dim view of that ever since I read the old testament (rape victims being the obvious one).

 

 

 

Also John 14:6 doesn't agree with you as it states that the only way to god (ie heaven) is through jesus.

 

 

 

While I agree it's not the place for pointing out any given persons sins, I was not intending to do so, it was just a slightly creative way of saying 'this is a debate, try not to get abusive'.

 

 

 

First off, Cup_Lion, I asked my mom that (the south africa thing) and she said the same exact thing as you. o.O

 

 

 

Anyways, Utopia, you made a fatal flaw, you compared the oldtestament to the new. Here's the thing, the Old Testament has values used to purify the Jews to ready them for Christ, which is why, if a house had mold, it was to be destroyed, it was to set the Jews apart. Also, they did several things, like sacrificing a lamb, in order to talk to God. But when Jesus came, (New Testament) that was all abolished, and yes, the way through heaven is to him. It is said somewhere, Nicodemus (sp?) was a Chief Pharisee (Jesus haters) and when he saw Jesus he said something, like 'how can I get into heaven?' and Jesus said "To be born again through me." Nicodemus, being a literal said "how Can I go into my mother;s womb again?" And Jesus said something along the lines of that he needed to believe in Jesus, and he'd go to heaven.

 

 

 

And everyone, whether you believe in God or not, he's a just God, it may not be your version of justice, but it's justice.

 

And Utopian, it's quite obvious, which is, and which isn't. But some differ on that, such as, the Catholic Church ( I think) says each day in Genesis was 1,000 years or something like that, while others take it literal, as a day. But then, you know, for a fact, that parables are an idea.

[assassin_696]

My problem with these debates is that they normally descend into petty Bible quoting with one side claiming to know more about the context and actual meaning than the other, failing to see the inherent subjectivity in any historical document with controversial origins.

 

 

 

This to-ing and fro-ing doesn't answer the question: Is God real? Which begs the question, if yes, why? My real interest lies with the arguments for God's existence, not Yahweh's or Allah's, just some unspecified higher being. Because frankly, if there aren't any strong arguments for God existing then the whole Bible debate seems to lose some of its potency. Surely any myth/culture with enough history and followers could be debated like this, but that's not what gives it credibility.

 

 

 

I don't want a shooting gallery either of traditional arguments for me to knock down with the routine rebuttals. I'm just curious and interested as to why you think that God exists. If you want to take it on faith then that's fine, but if you can justify it then go for it.

[Saru Inc]

To be honest, I have no idea why God exists, I just know he does. I bet a theologian could answer it though.

[J a m e s]

To be honest, I have no idea why God exists, I just know he does. I bet a theologian could answer it though.

 

 

 

How the flying [bleep]ing hell do you know a god exists?

 

 

 

Oh, silly me, the Bible says so! :wall:

[jackattack]

To be honest, I have no idea why God exists, I just know he does. I bet a theologian could answer it though.

 

 

 

How the flying [bleep] hell do you know a god exists?

 

 

 

 

In a way you will never understand until you feel the same thing.

[Saru Inc]

To be honest, I have no idea why God exists, I just know he does. I bet a theologian could answer it though.

 

 

 

How the flying [bleep] hell do you know a god exists?

 

 

 

 

In a way you will never understand until you feel the same thing.

 

 

 

 

 

That's very true, actually.

 

 

 

And also, sometimes you need to believe what you can't always see. That doesn't mean you can't find facts about it, but I mean, not everything is at eye level. So many emotions and such that can't be explained, and you would'nt know anything abouty them, until you felt them. Just like (yea, this is an extreme example) if you felt suicidal, someone would say that was a stupid feeling, until they actually also become suicidal and knew how it felt. Now, I don't think I should be comparing God to suicide but... (I say many, and not all emotiuons, because some CAN be explained, such as saratonin levels (sp?) ) there's still facts that emotions such as love, and despair exist. Even though you can't see them, per se.

[Rebdragon]

It's called "faith".

 

 

 

We know, it's BS, get over it.

[Saru Inc]

*sigh* So you're saying that you never ever use faith in your life, ever?

[Rebdragon]

No, I'm saying basing my life on it is [developmentally delayed]ed. But that's just me.

 

 

 

I'll only have faith for two reasons: One, to keep myself and loved ones around me in a better mental state when something terrible happens to a loved one (ex, my hypothetical cousin gets in a car accident, better to have faith than to make everyone worry even more than they already are), or Two, when I'm really basing my faith on the knowledge that I know a person can succeed at something, making it not really faith even though it is termed as such (ex, having faith my hypothetical son's team will win the soccer game).

 

 

 

Neither of these reasons guide my actions, simply my state of mind. I merely use faith as a means to an end, if you will.

[Saru Inc]

Eh, the way I see it, is the only Faith you need, really, is getting to know God. It's like the leap of faith is asking God into your heart, then after that leap, you're on solid ground, and you realize - that it really is true. But, someone people are too scared to jump, because they're afraid they might fall.

[Rebdragon]

What a crappy analogy.

 

 

 

1: Faith isn't scary. It's a win-uh, okay situation. Pascals Wager and all that.

 

2: Because faith isn't scary, those who do not take part in it do not do so out of fear, but out of disgust for the lack of logic and thought involved in it.

 

3: Just because you've convinced yourself that something is true does not mean that it is, especially in a case where neither side has evidence. That is, telling yourself it is true does not make it any truer than the next religion's knowledge that what they believe is true.

[warri0r45]

76 pages and we've managed to reduce the debate to "I know he's real".

 

 

 

Well done guys. You're so convincing.

 

 

 

I suppose the predictable answer to my post would be that I have no idea because I'm not a believer and I don't feel what you guys do. Don't worry, I've heard it a hundred times before and it just gets more and more dull.

[Cup Lion]

If you're tired of it, why even post?

 

 

 

The physical proof that God is real (in order to convince all the atheists here) does not exist. If you are expecting physical proof, you aren't going to get it. Might as well quit discussing this whole matter if all the atheists won't relate to anything but physical evidence.

 

 

 

It really gets on my nerves when someone asks me to try to convince them that God exists, I try, and they simply say, thats illogical, you can't prove it. If you want the physical evidence, find it yourself.

[warri0r45]

If you're tired of it, why even post?

 

 

 

The physical proof that God is real (in order to convince all the atheists here) does not exist. If you are expecting physical proof, you aren't going to get it. Might as well quit discussing this whole matter if all the atheists won't relate to anything but physical evidence.

 

 

 

It really gets on my nerves when someone asks me to try to convince them that God exists, I try, and they simply say, thats illogical, you can't prove it. If you want the physical evidence, find it yourself.

 

 

 

I could ask the same of you: why do you try to convince people that god exists if it gets on your nerves all the time?

 

 

 

The simple answer to why I posted is that I'm just responding the the direction the thread's going. Perhaps my questioning will get people to explain why they know and I don't. I'd love to hear it, but then again what you said is very true. I'm not likely to get an answer that doesn't involve some personal feeling that has no relation to me at all.

 

 

 

Even if that's the case, a little more of an explanation than the holier-than-thou attitude of "I know" would be nice.

[Cup Lion]

I could ask the same of you: why do you try to convince people that god exists if it gets on your nerves all the time?

 

Heh. I like to think. You make me think, which is fun, and which is why I respect you.

 

 

 

You specifically said that you expected a post along the lines of "I have no idea because I'm not a believer and I don't feel what you guys do". Most of the posts here deal with what we feel. Since the physical evidence does not exist, we have to go to logic and feeling (faith). But that apparently is getting dull to you, but you can't expect more, as explained in my previous post.

[D Jay99]

I'm wondering. Why do people believe in something divine (God, Allah, Vishnu, whatever) if all you've ever heard or seen from it was told you by other humans?

[Saru Inc]

I'm wondering. Why do people believe in something divine (God, Allah, Vishnu, whatever) if all you've ever heard or seen from it was told you by other humans?

 

 

 

It hasn't...

[D Jay99]

I'm wondering. Why do people believe in something divine (God, Allah, Vishnu, whatever) if all you've ever heard or seen from it was told you by other humans?

 

 

 

It hasn't...

 

You mean you've actually received a message from God?

[Lenticular_J]

76 pages and we've managed to reduce the debate to "I know he's real".

 

 

 

Well done guys. You're so convincing.

 

 

 

I suppose the predictable answer to my post would be that I have no idea because I'm not a believer and I don't feel what you guys do. Don't worry, I've heard it a hundred times before and it just gets more and more dull.

 

What do you want, a map? Get off your high horse and realize that we're not trying to convert you, and even if we did, there's no logical explanation for either side. You're flying by faith that there is no God just as much as I know there is one.

 

 

 

I'm wondering. Why do people believe in something divine (God, Allah, Vishnu, whatever) if all you've ever heard or seen from it was told you by other humans?

 

Did you go to the Galapagos Islands to study evolution?

 

Did you build and learn yourself how to operate an automobile?

 

Were you there during the American Revolution?

 

 

 

The passing down of ideas and knowledge. More common then you think.

[D Jay99]

I'm wondering. Why do people believe in something divine (God' date=' Allah, Vishnu, whatever) if all you've ever heard or seen from it was told you by other humans?[/quote']

 

Did you go to the Galapagos Islands to study evolution?

 

Did you build and learn yourself how to operate an automobile?

 

Were you there during the American Revolution?

 

 

 

The passing down of ideas and knowledge. More common then you think.

 

At least there is physical evidence of those things, so I can study them if I want to.

[warren211]

I'm wondering. Why do people believe in something divine (God, Allah, Vishnu, whatever) if all you've ever heard or seen from it was told you by other humans?

 

 

 

Again, it's called faith. I don't like the direction of these threads. There is never enough physical evidence God exists, and the few miracles that are known are quickly dismissed as either coincidences, false, or not miraculous but rather scientific. No one will ever manage to get the other to convert; an active atheist has little chances of converting. Although there are plenty of fascinating books written by Atheists who converted to Catholicism, they're just not convincing for others. Faith, in essence, is belief without seeing. We don't have to see God is there, we just know he is. Fine, if you thank that's bs, I couldn't care less. I used to be actively debating here, but I now realize my efforts are futile. Nothing will prove to me that God exists, just as little will prove to an atheist that He does.

[warri0r45]

76 pages and we've managed to reduce the debate to "I know he's real".

 

 

 

Well done guys. You're so convincing.

 

 

 

I suppose the predictable answer to my post would be that I have no idea because I'm not a believer and I don't feel what you guys do. Don't worry, I've heard it a hundred times before and it just gets more and more dull.

 

What do you want, a map? Get off your high horse and realize that we're not trying to convert you, and even if we did, there's no logical explanation for either side. You're flying by faith that there is no God just as much as I know there is one.

 

 

 

I think you're overreacting a bit, Lenticular. I'm not accusing anyone of trying to convert me, I was just making a comment on recent posts. If you read "you're trying to convert me so don't" into a sarcastic "you're so convincing", then sorry, you've misinterpreted me. No one was even responding to me, so I don't know how you get that I'm on my high horse about people trying to convert me. Trust me, I've heard it all too many times over to get offended by people preaching at me (not that anyone actually was in this case).

 

 

 

Why is it so wrong to want more of an explanation than "I know god exists"?

 

 

 

On a side note, you've got me wrong. I don't have faith that god doesn't exist, I'm just not convinced that he does. There's a huge difference between not believing in what you do and believing the negative of what you do.

[Rebdragon]

I'm wondering. Why do people believe in something divine (God, Allah, Vishnu, whatever) if all you've ever heard or seen from it was told you by other humans?

 

Did you go to the Galapagos Islands to study evolution?

 

Did you build and learn yourself how to operate an automobile?

 

Were you there during the American Revolution?

 

 

 

The passing down of ideas and knowledge. More common then you think.

 

Evolution can be studied in high school experiments.

 

Are you talking about repairing it or driving it? Repairing requires you to do your suggestion, driving makes it unnecessary.

 

This is history verifiable by more than one unbiased document. Like, a quadrillion documents.

 

 

 

The Bible? One biased book, nothing more. Just because it's "passed down" don't mean it's right.