Documentary(s) about "Chinese gold gamers"

[the_god_of_soup]

All this talk of RWT'ing is getting me thinking that JAGeX is going the right direction right now :thumbsup: .

[SwreeTak]

A great collection of article, and that BBC thing is something to think about...TYVM!

[qeltar]

Solution: without thinking twice, ban all level 3s with Chinese names (like xiaohung12).

 

 

 

Whatever you may think of the Chinese, they are not stupid. That would accomplish nothing.

 

 

 

The analogy of the illegal drug trade is spot on. Both function in much the same way: the demand from those willing to cheat by buying is the reason for the supply of those willing to cheat by selling, and vice-versa.

[Armadyllo]

Solution: without thinking twice, ban all level 3s with Chinese names (like xiaohung12).

 

 

 

Just lately there's been quite a flow of suggestions from players about how Jagex could solve the RWT problem. Some of the smarter ones include intelligent IP filters, advanced random features to confuse the bots, etc. They certainly would work at first, if Jagex did a good job of it. (I'm feeling optimistic today.) However, after a while, the RWT merchants can learn and adapt.

 

 

 

Take the rather simplistic example above. If you ban all level 3s with Chinese names - on the assumption that no innocent player ever creates an account with a Chinese name, and that RWT accounts can't level combat! - the RWT merchants would just have to work out that they needed to call their accounts Johnny111, Johnny112, Johnny113 instead. Then Jagex would have upset a load of innocent players again, and it'd have achieved no long-term effect.

 

 

 

I don't believe Jagex is going to be able to release any successful anti-RWT feature that depends on blocking them heuristically, not if the feature's got to work for all future RWT accounts. In the same way, they blatantly aren't achieving anything by writing randomized features, if the existing random events are anything to go by. It's a classic arms race, where Jagex is constantly trying to develop something the RWT merchants can't work around, and Jagex's chances of winning would be zero.

 

 

 

This leaves us with the unpleasant prospect of Jagex doing something far more extreme to try obliterating the problem once and for all.

[Randox]

don't blame the farmers for ruining your game...They are just trying to make a living. Blame the Americans who pay for their service. Without them, these farmers wouldn't of had the idea to sell virtual items. The chinese are not the source of the problem.

 

Your logic is a bit weird so a irl example its not the drug dealers fault for supplying them with drugs its the ppl buying it from him? :-k

 

 

 

Its people who are willing to pay for in game money who create the demand. If no one was willing to pay real money for game money then there would be no reason for gold farmers to exist.

 

 

 

And as you stated, if no one wanted to buy illeagal drugs, then no one would bother sellign them.

 

 

 

Its both parties fault. Its the fault of gamers who pay real cash for gold pieces, and its gold faming companies fault for making that possible.

[TheAncient]

I don't think it's realistic for Jagex to completely prohibit goldfarming.

 

 

 

The difference in the value of time of Chinese workers and American workers is just much too high. The average Chinese income is around 17000 Yuan (I know since I lived there over the summer; I earned 40$ for near 120 hours of work). The average American income is around 20000 USD. That is roughly an 8-fold difference - a clear opportunity for arbitrage. In addition, labor laws are extremely lax in China, and the minimum wage is essentially ignored. The 17000 Yuan average income incorporates the absolute dirt poor and the disgustingly rich; the class separation in China is much bigger than that of the US (which is already quite high)

 

 

 

Jagex cannot take the approach of banning individual bots, or even bot-pimps. Again, this opportunity arbitrage is just too high; as long as they can make a profit (which they probably will), people will do it simply because there are that many people in China.

 

 

 

I can understand their current strategy, attempting not to prohibit but to reduce goldfarming in scale. Sometimes, though, they really are going too far (i.e. staking).

 

 

 

Ideally, Jagex would make creating accounts harder. Unfortunately this also means less customers for them. But with the sacrifices they've made to other aspects of the game, I don't understand why they haven't at least tried this approach.

[Will H]

I can't believe that people still are labouring under the delusion that RWTing is legal in real life. All in-game items and accounts are the property of Jagex Ltd., and real world traders are selling something for real money which they do not have any legal ownership of. That accounts for stealing, and then the buyers are breaking the law for buying stolen goods.

 

 

 

Say, you let someone into your house for a party, and they take your DVD player out when you aren't looking, and then sell it to another party goer. The item hasn't actually left the house, but it is stolen and sold to someone else.

 

 

 

These kind of people go around looking for 'parties' and then take 'items' to sell to other people. And worse than this, they are employed to do this by someone else.

[Mstrling70]

I can't believe that people still are labouring under the delusion that RWTing is legal in real life. All in-game items and accounts are the property of Jagex Ltd., and real world traders are selling something for real money which they do not have any legal ownership of. That accounts for stealing, and then the buyers are breaking the law for buying stolen goods.

 

 

 

Say, you let someone into your house for a party, and they take your DVD player out when you aren't looking, and then sell it to another party goer. The item hasn't actually left the house, but it is stolen and sold to someone else.

 

 

 

These kind of people go around looking for 'parties' and then take 'items' to sell to other people. And worse than this, they are employed to do this by someone else.

 

 

 

The difference is that virtual items that have no intrinsic value are not protected under the law (in the US.) The whole process of buying Runescape items and gold pieces for real money is against the rules for Jagex, but there are no laws, at least in the US, that make this activity illegal and prosecutable.

[Sand_Hill]

First of all, the Tiananmen Square Massacre was in June, 1989, not 1993.

 

 

 

Second, goldfarming is not a crime. It is against the rules of many games, but not a crime.

 

 

 

Third, there will always be a demand for this type of service because it is in the nature of some people to always find a shortcut. Any gaming company who tries to change this aspect of human nature is bailing the Titanic with a teacup.

 

 

 

What Jagex has been doing lately in their battle against this type of activity is to identify the bot-pimps and johns who perform the final transaction. There are too many bots to battle, so you go after the fewer number of bot-pimps and their in-game customers instead.

 

 

 

Transferring gold and wealth one way is what Jagex is trying to track, but there were too many options available to the bot-pimps. Staking and losing, one-way trades, voluntary PKing, Party Room drops, and drop trading would be difficult to track, so Jagex is trying to corral the bot-pimps.

 

 

 

The duel arena has been gutted, so the bot-pimps cannot use it anymore.

 

The Party Room has been changed to announce valuable drops, so it does not work for the bot-pimps anymore.

 

The GE has reduced the volume of individual-to-individual (I2I) trades throughout the game, making it easier for the employees at Jagex to track unbalanced trade patterns.

 

Bounty Hunter will likely allow some sort of Wildy change later on to make voluntary PKing less desirable.

 

We will also likely see some sort of change that will make drop trading more difficult in the future.

 

 

 

All of these changes won't eliminate real world trading, but it makes it easier for the employees of Jagex to track the few avenues the bot-pimps have left.

 

 

 

Glad someone in here actually backs up what he says. =D>

[emmanuel1233]

like some pll say its not only the workers prob. its the ppl who buy from them

 

right? if anyone likes or love rs as much as i do you wuddent need to break rules like buy cheap grafiks for 2.99 lol... i love rs but cmon who would really buy something you can't actually have? :shame: :shame:

[lordkafei]

don't blame the farmers for ruining your game...They are just trying to make a living. Blame the Americans who pay for their service. Without them, these farmers wouldn't of had the idea to sell virtual items. The chinese are not the source of the problem.

 

 

 

Yes, of course... only Americans buy rs gold with money.

 

 

 

-2 for you

[fasterthanU1]

well what ever you have to do to make a living lol but realy like most people said its mostly the demand with out demand nobody would suply the gold

[aznmidget448]

don't blame the farmers for ruining your game...They are just trying to make a living. Blame the Americans who pay for their service. Without them, these farmers wouldn't of had the idea to sell virtual items. The chinese are not the source of the problem.

 

Your logic is a bit weird so a irl example its not the drug dealers fault for supplying them with drugs its the ppl buying it from him? :-k

 

 

 

Its people who are willing to pay for in game money who create the demand. If no one was willing to pay real money for game money then there would be no reason for gold farmers to exist.

 

 

 

And as you stated, if no one wanted to buy illeagal drugs, then no one would bother sellign them.

 

 

 

Its both parties fault. Its the fault of gamers who pay real cash for gold pieces, and its gold faming companies fault for making that possible.

 

 

 

Jagex has mentioned it in their updates, however no one seems to care :-#

[Sir_Sibz]

First of all, the Tiananmen Square Massacre was in June, 1989, not 1993.

 

 

 

Second, goldfarming is not a crime. It is against the rules of many games, but not a crime.

 

 

 

Third, there will always be a demand for this type of service because it is in the nature of some people to always find a shortcut. Any gaming company who tries to change this aspect of human nature is bailing the Titanic with a teacup.

 

 

 

What Jagex has been doing lately in their battle against this type of activity is to identify the bot-pimps and johns who perform the final transaction. There are too many bots to battle, so you go after the fewer number of bot-pimps and their in-game customers instead.

 

 

 

Transferring gold and wealth one way is what Jagex is trying to track, but there were too many options available to the bot-pimps. Staking and losing, one-way trades, voluntary PKing, Party Room drops, and drop trading would be difficult to track, so Jagex is trying to corral the bot-pimps.

 

 

 

The duel arena has been gutted, so the bot-pimps cannot use it anymore.

 

The Party Room has been changed to announce valuable drops, so it does not work for the bot-pimps anymore.

 

The GE has reduced the volume of individual-to-individual (I2I) trades throughout the game, making it easier for the employees at Jagex to track unbalanced trade patterns.

 

Bounty Hunter will likely allow some sort of Wildy change later on to make voluntary PKing less desirable.

 

We will also likely see some sort of change that will make drop trading more difficult in the future.

 

 

 

All of these changes won't eliminate real world trading, but it makes it easier for the employees of Jagex to track the few avenues the bot-pimps have left.

 

 

 

Mstrling70 has a very deliciously, awesome point and view on the updates lately. \

[--fistofbeast--]

Solution: without thinking twice, ban all level 3s with Chinese names (like xiaohung12).

 

 

 

Whatever you may think of the Chinese, they are not stupid. That would accomplish nothing.

 

 

 

The analogy of the illegal drug trade is spot on. Both function in much the same way: the demand from those willing to cheat by buying is the reason for the supply of those willing to cheat by selling, and vice-versa.

 

 

 

Ever catch sarcasm? And thanks for stating the obvious captain obvious.

[epeeflecher]

poor rural farmer were sometimes forced into sweetshop labor.

 

 

 

Sweetshop labor?

 

 

 

That must be bad, being forced into selling sweets. Surely there's laws against things like that? Do they get paid in skittles?

 

 

 

lol.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

Second, goldfarming is not a crime. It is against the rules of many games, but not a crime.

 

 

 

Materials (including without limit all information, software, data, text, photographs, graphics, sound and video) placed on this website by us or on our behalf are protected by copyright and other intellectual property rights of ourselves or our business partners / suppliers / advertisers. You may not use these materials or this website except to play the Game in accordance with these terms and conditions and for personal (i.e. non-commercial) use only.

 

 

 

You agree that your Game character, account and items are and will remain our property.

 

 

 

Goldfarming is intellectual property theft.

[qeltar]

 

 

 

Goldfarming is intellectual property theft.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

 

 

No, it's not. That is not what the term means at all.

 

 

 

If someone reverse engineered the game code for RS and put up a duplicate site very similar to it to compete with it -- that would be intellectual property theft. All that gold farmers are doing is violating Jagex's T&C.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

 

 

 

Goldfarming is intellectual property theft.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

 

 

No, it's not. That is not what the term means at all.

 

 

 

If someone reverse engineered the game code for RS and put up a duplicate site very similar to it to compete with it -- that would be intellectual property theft. All that gold farmers are doing is violating Jagex's T&C.

 

 

 

My bad- not intellectual property theft. Just plain theft.

 

 

 

Unless you mean to tell me that selling someone else's property isn't illegal.

[db300]

These videos were very insightful. Thanks for posting them. =D>

[Earth_Poet]

i blame both. the weak player who is willing to spend money to cheat. and the goldfarmer who is willing to do it for them. it's not one side or the other. both of their hands are dirty. i really like the classic drug analogy. where was the crack problem? from the user who smoked the crack? the street dealer cooking it and selling it? these chinese goldfarmers would be like the poor people in columbia picking the coca plants and making the cocaine. they were just doing a job so they could eat. does that mean it shouldn't be shut down?

 

 

 

as long as there is a market for real world trading then, yes, there will be somebody there to supply it. but it ruins the game. you shouldn't be able to enjoy the spoils and the highs of the game without at least "suffering" through the work it takes to get there. if you can't be bothered with it then you shouldn't bother playing at all. where does it stop? need gp? hire an asian! skill lvls too low? hire an asian! need some combat lvls? hire an asian! quest too hard? hire an asian!

 

 

 

we're already getting to a community that wants to second guess how anybody has obtained their items, cash, or skills. if you're too rich or have too high levels you must've bought it. if you're too low in combat levels and/or don't speak much you must be a bot/farmer.

[malo2]

i doubt there chinese since china is not a third world country.

Do you by any chance live under a rock? how many bedrooms does it have?

[Darkfuhrer]

its really bad if people are trying to close these places down because its the only way of life these people have.Without it they will end up living on the streets.

[Aidos Drakon]

don't blame the farmers for ruining your game...They are just trying to make a living. Blame the Americans who pay for their service. Without them, these farmers wouldn't of had the idea to sell virtual items. The chinese are not the source of the problem.

 

Your logic is a bit weird so a irl example its not the drug dealers fault for supplying them with drugs its the ppl buying it from him? :-k

 

 

 

Its people who are willing to pay for in game money who create the demand. If no one was willing to pay real money for game money then there would be no reason for gold farmers to exist.

 

 

 

And as you stated, if no one wanted to buy illeagal drugs, then no one would bother sellign them.

 

 

 

Its both parties fault. Its the fault of gamers who pay real cash for gold pieces, and its gold faming companies fault for making that possible.

 

 

 

I agree. Both parties are responsible. I do feel sorry for people that have to be farmers to make a living, but it is not right to break legal contract. People who buy the gold are a bit scumy and should just play like everyone else does.

[Deathlypulse]

i doubt there chinese since china is not a third world country.

Do you by any chance live under a rock? how many bedrooms does it have?

 

 

 

Best Quote EVER.

 

 

 

:XD: :XD: :XD: