(Originally published on TruthScape and copied here for the benefit of the Tip.It community and to spur discussion.)

 

 

 

The TruthScape Soapbox - Issue #8 - A Lack of Communication, A Lack of Respect

 

 

 

Published: January 2, 2008

 

 

 

Today Jagex implemented the last and perhaps most significant of its major policy changes meant to combat real world trading (RWT): the elimination of ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅunbalancedÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

put it in a little summary that i can read in 10 seconds

 

 

 

edit: read most of it.

 

 

 

jagex needs to get the correct prices soon, seems pretty urgent to me.

There's a summary at the top of the article. Read faster. :D

i agree 110%!

 

 

 

jagex's prices are pathetic, loads being way off

 

Jagex doesnt seem to get that if we don't like the game, we can quit...

 

Jagex is having a dictatorship/democracy where everyone is fair and equal, just jagex is more equal

That was very good, in the past I was rather distasted by your articles but I'm glad you finally woke up and smelled the coffee.

That was very good, in the past I was rather distasted by your articles but I'm glad you finally woke up and smelled the coffee.

 

 

 

Just curious what you mean by "woke up and smelled the coffee"?

Well said. Well spoken.

Just a quick pre point.... be careful how you accuse them and use the word "lie" it may be recommendable to tone down the wording a tad, whilst conveying the same point.

 

 

 

 

 

They are some major issues with some elements of the GE, and they do need addressing, thinks like the interfaces need a tune up.... but it's nothing major and they are working on it (in this case I would have them to not take the time due to the problems it could cause if rushed).

 

 

 

But I agree with you changing the prices would take no time at all it does need attention, but maybe the issue is not the time it takes to do..... but finding the time it takes to do it.... management could be the issue here.

 

 

 

I think it will not be long till it's fixed, it was a major project and I don't think they anticipated the maintanace it would require.

 

 

 

They claim to be putting together a Jagex team solely to manage this system, and when the forum is launched for it I am sure it will have a very noticeable impact. In the long run it will work out just fine, and I personally am not as concerned as you at these teething issues.

 

 

 

It is a problem but I feel you are war over dramatising it .

I dont feel I am NOT over dramatizing my resentment for not being to help friends or my inability to give gifts. I do feel I am not overdramatising boss monstering, pking and staking being changed.

 

 

 

I dont think he should have to be careful with saying if he thinks they lied. but thats just me.

I'm not going to argue with you over the quality or quantity of CS we get, but this is what I have a problem with:

 

 

 

 

But apparently I gave the company far more credit than it deserved. Today, the company implemented its ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åunbalanced trade restrictionsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

As always, great article. Read your report card last night as well, you sure took a long time on that. :shock:

I dont feel I am NOT over dramatizing my resentment for not being to help friends or my inability to give gifts. I do feel I am not overdramatising boss monstering, pking and staking being changed.

 

 

 

I dont think he should have to be careful with saying if he thinks they lied. but thats just me.

 

 

 

I don't think this article was so much about gifts etc, as it was about the GE and as far as the GE is concerned I don't think the issue is at all as bit as he is making out..... (in my opinion)

 

 

 

The reasons I bring up the use of wording is legal reasons.... most companies don't take to kindly of being accused of lies, when in most case they can prove them in a legal connect as not being a lie, and in england under our laws the wording could have legal implications. Wether or not they can apply to Qeltar as an American I don't know.... but in a professional context it might be the moral thing to do to respect Jagex'es side (afterall the critisism is only there with the hope that it may change he way Jagex work)

Why does a company as big and successful and profitable as Jagex refuse to take the small amount of time and money necessary to keep us up to date about matters that are important to us?

 

 

 

Because they already make enough profit without having to inform us. Why ARE you surprised, qeltar, that a company as large as Jagex would see a need to change anything when their profits stay steady and they're calling the shots? When they know that even if they turned their game upside down and shook it, the addicts would cling to it? Even if they fix all the problems with the GE, it will be at their own pace and not at the players' demand. What Jagex has demonstrated with these updates is that their paying customers are essentially in the palm of their hand. The changes following December 10? Emergency mode. Now? The calm after the storm. No need to move too much.

 

 

 

1. Why should the 5% restrictions be loosened? These restrictions were put in place to prevent merchanters from going buck-wild with whatever they felt like, and to prevent specific cornering of a market..

 

The market is cornered now by the company and has a lack of elasticity to rise quickly to market demand. It isnt like every item was maniuplated by merchants.

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Why should price floors be removed?.

Supply and demand and self imposed worth. my potions are worth more to me than GE prices so I would charge more..but I really cant.. So not only do I the seller have no say in pricing my own goods and crafts, I cant undersell others to sell things quicker So I can recover funds.

 

.

 

3. If the update frequency were changed to twice, four, or eight times a day, wouldn't that make items either rise or fall dramatically, thus giving a group of merchants the chance to capitalize and corner the market?.

yes and thats how real exchanges work, ever bought and sold stock? The grand exchange in principle is a giant stock market.

 

 

4. Try to exercise patience. Jagex may have a specialized staff, but it isn't like that staff isn't used in other places..

 

They are a multi million if not BILLION dollar company, I shouldnt have to stop MY game and wait for them to fix it or update it because of an update, That is unacceptable. My Patience says it was announced month or so ago, they can do it over the holidays if they are going to impose a deadline on OUR free trade and boss monster spliting, I can damn well expect an in game update that fixes that. i shouldnt have to wait

 

 

5. Don't start up with the interface. That's fine. It isn't like the interface is impossible or difficult to use...

 

The interface is flawed, but workable.

Just a quick pre point.... be careful how you accuse them and use the word "lie" it may be recommendable to tone down the wording a tad, whilst conveying the same point.

 

 

Why would I need to "tone down the wording"? I didn't say anything negative about Jagex in general, or call them all a bunch of liars or poopyheads or whatever. I gave a specific quote from a page in the KB that says that prices in the GE are controlled by players. That's a lie. Period.

 

 

 

Unless you can convince me otherwise, I'm not going to sugar-coat my comments. It's *important* for at least a few people to be blunt and clear and direct about things, and as long as what I am saying is valid I will keep saying it. If I don't, who will -- you? I've seen what happens to RSOF mods who speak their minds. You've traded your voice for your precious crown and that's your decision, but it's really your issue, not mine.

 

 

 

I have always given Jagex credit where I feel it is due, including recently. But I really do NOT appreciate being manipulated, and that's what I feel the company is doing -- again.

 

 

They claim to be putting together a Jagex team solely to manage this system, and when the forum is launched for it I am sure it will have a very noticeable impact.

 

 

What, like the thousands of posts on the various price correction threads have so far?

 

 

In the long run it will work out just fine, and I personally am not as concerned as you at these teething issues.

 

 

Exactly how much time would it take for a J mod to post in a thread or on the main web page saying "we are working on X and here's roughly when we plan to have it ready"?

 

 

 

Makoto: Most of your questions have been beaten to death in other threads, and #4 is addressed right in this very article. So sorry, but I'm not spending a bunch of time replying to you in detail.

I completely agree with Qeltar, but Bobbington2 does have a valid point. In 2006, a Tip.It Times editor accused Jagex of false bannings, and Andrew threatened to sue him, because he claimed that the editor was saying false things about Jagex.

I'm not going to argue with you over the quality or quantity of CS we get, but this is what I have a problem with:

 

 

 

 

But apparently I gave the company far more credit than it deserved. Today, the company implemented its ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åunbalanced trade restrictionsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

 

Because they already make enough profit without having to inform us. Why ARE you surprised, qeltar, that a company as large as Jagex would see a need to change anything when their profits stay steady and they're calling the shots?

 

 

 

The question was mostly rhetorical. It was asked to make a point, not because I don't know the answer.

 

 

 

But bear in mind that companies that make a habit of considering themselves far more important than their customers often regret it down the road. I was really hoping Jagex was smart enough to avoid those historical pitfalls.

I agree with you on almost everything, I just think that it is hard to try to manage the prices of thousands of items and that they are going to take more time, some of these things are ridiculous, but I think it will smooth out over time. Loved all your articles on Truthscape, most of them are dead on... another great topic and great view on things.

I completely agree with Qeltar, but Bobbington2 does have a valid point. In 2006, a Tip.It Times editor accused Jagex of false bannings, and Andrew threatened to sue him, because he claimed that the editor was saying false things about Jagex.

 

 

 

If I said anything false tell me and I'll remove it and apologize, as I would regardless of any lawsuit threats. Such threats rarely have any merit -- they are used to intimidate. It worked very nicely for Gower, didn't it? He's got people tip-toeing on eggshells two years later. Well, the fewer people who are willing to speak openly, the more important it is that someone do so, right?

That was very good, in the past I was rather distasted by your articles but I'm glad you finally woke up and smelled the coffee.

 

 

 

Just curious what you mean by "woke up and smelled the coffee"?

 

 

 

We've had our differences in your past soapbox articles, especially your relative belief in Jagex until now.

That was very good, in the past I was rather distasted by your articles but I'm glad you finally woke up and smelled the coffee.

 

 

 

Just curious what you mean by "woke up and smelled the coffee"?

 

 

 

We've had our differences in your past soapbox articles, especially your relative belief in Jagex until now.

 

 

 

Okay, that's pretty funny considering I generally have a reputation as being "too hard on Jagex". ;)

If I don't, who will -- you? I've seen what happens to RSOF mods who speak their minds. You've traded your voice for your precious crown and that's your decision, but it's really your issue, not mine.

 

 

 

 

I am sorry.... but I really resent that...

 

 

 

When posting on the official forums of course I have to watch how I word things as my wording + a mod title can case allot of issues.... but as soon as I feel I am at a stage where the fact that i am a mod means I cannot put my view across in the manner I want I would resign my position.

 

 

 

Jagex encourage us to be our selves, and to have our own views positive or negative. It always seems to be your comeback when I disagree with you that it's because i am an official moderator... well I'm sorry but thats totally false, I disagree with you because I disagree with you.

 

 

 

I am not asking you you change your opinions... you re entitled to them and i am glad you have them.... I am also not asking that you make any major changes....

 

 

 

 

 

I mearly state that some of the wording you use is unfair, and not only unfair in many cases just one sided wording puts a hell of alot of bias on the readers, artificially changing their opinions.

 

 

 

I would have allot more respect for your opinions if you did it (in this case) in a manner that is not so leading. It can be worded much better in a fashion that lets people come to their own conclusions.... I know you can do it.... I have seen your able to do it.

As you made many points, I cannot agree with them all, but it was a well written article as usual.

 

 

 

Some feedback:

 

 

 

1. When utilizing the Jagex messaging system, you can call it to the attention of a specific mod and post it in parts for lengthy messages. Example "Attn Mod Craddock: Smith Suggestion pt. 1". I was told this by Mod Craddock when he needed further feedback for content suggestions.

 

 

 

2. The price floor I agree with if it were implemented logically: Example would be high alchemy value minus cost of nature rune or lowest price paid by store. Obviously the examples you give go WAY outside the realm of reasonable.

 

 

 

3. Jagex feedback to its customers. I HATE that technically I cannot replicate information sent to me via the messaging center. Sometimes its valuable feedback that the community should know. It's hard to know when a mod posts a response to a message in the forums (except when brought to attention in these forums). Yes, feedback is lacking or at least access to that feedback. Maybe, just maybe, allow us to view posts made by Jagex Mods similar to how we can view our own posts via "my profile".

 

 

 

4. Lootshare: probably more complicated than we can appreciate. It definately needs to be fixed sooner than later.

 

 

 

If you never experienced it, when Jagex began to consistently do "Behind the Scenes" as a monthly posts, I think the game improved. The more feedback Jagex gave, I think the better the community accepted the decisions of Jagex. Just a quick sticky on a Tuesday saying "Update is delayed this week due to unforeseen bug in Wildy Tag" alleviated tons of posts that would have been made begging for info on missing week's update. Just things I noticed over the many months.

 

 

 

Yes, Feedback Jagex, the more you give, the better the fidelity.

 

 

 

PS: For the BEST example of how communication could be handled, check out the Suggestion Stickies that are monitored by Mod Craddock. There you have (outside some useless chatter) some of the best suggestions for the game, some of which have been implemented in some form or another. For mature players with concerns (or ideas), a simple "We hear you" goes a long way.

Actually, Jagex didn't make an '[wagon]' out of me because, if you'd remember, I was against the idea of the GE from the first day it was implemented for the exact reasons you've already stated (Of course, you called me an idiot and whatnot, but that's neither here nor there). But, hey, it's good that you finally realized this-- Better late than never :mrgreen:

 

 

 

*Runs off to the RSOF*