Once you go WOW, you never go back?

[pottsie89]

Eh, watched my little brother become totally dependent on it.

 

Tried it out for about 2 days and got over it when i found out you couldn't PvP and win their items. :thumbdown:

 

 

 

Edit: wow. First post in 2 years of membership? Guess i do just read stuff.

[xblade124]

Not gonna lie, WOW is addicting. Simple concept and repetetive but keeps me wanting more. I take it in large doses and stop for awhile but somehow it always draws me back in. It's too expensive though. Last time i left i had i think a 32 orc shaman and a completely buffed lvl 24-26 undead warlock. Great game.

[jenova1692]

RS and WoW are both really repetetive...but WoW only really has combat, while RS has 20+ skills. Only good thing about WoW is, once you do get up there, theres tons more to do. I myself never had the patience to get up there, nor the time, so i quit. Now I'm back to RS.

[Knite]

I never played WOW and never will. Someone was saying WOW is harder game then RS? I have plenty of WOW friends leveling up their characters to max in 2-3 weeks. How in the hell will you level RS character to 138 in 3 weeks? You barely could get one skill to 99 with nolifing on fight stats.

 

 

 

RS is much harder game in MY opinion and that's why i like this game.

 

 

 

There is also progress from jagex to make this game easier for the younger players by adding additional features and other ways to train such as "Make all" so little kids wouldn't get fustrated by all the clicking :mrgreen:

 

 

 

Also what makes me extremely mad is that people compare RS and WOW graphics. HELLO WOW players, RS is java based game and WOW is CD-ROM game. Just wait, if Jagex ever decides to release a CD-ROM version of runescape. ;)

 

 

 

No hard feelings for any WOW players, this is just my opinion of the game.

[All_Bogs]

I never played WOW and never will. Someone was saying WOW is harder game then RS? I have plenty of WOW friends leveling up their characters to max in 2-3 weeks. How in the hell will you level RS character to 138 in 3 weeks? You barely could get one skill to 99 with nolifing on fight stats.

 

 

 

Getting a skill to 99 in 'Scape isn't hard, it's simply time consuming. A trained monkey could do it, too. What I consider hard is organizing a group of 25 people to all do their part in order to take down a raid boss. Runescape's player vs. monster combat totally pales in comparison to WoW's, and there's no way a group of trained monkeys is going to down any raidbosses at all.

 

 

 

In 'Scape, you can bring pretty much anyone to whatever you're going to kill, and it'll help. If somebody dies due to doing something stupid, their loss. You'll manage with the remaining crew. In WoW, that person dieing is probably going to make your life much harder, as frequently fights are a race against the clock, or that person has to take care of a certain aspect of a fight, etc.

 

 

 

I see some people mentioning it's easy during levelling. Right. In 'Scape, you can run through a room filled with like 20 aggresive monsters without much risk at all. In WoW, unless said monsters are well below your level, you're going to die, period.

 

 

 

When comparing the two, one should keep in mind that while Runescape pretty much ends with you getting all 99's (and possibly stuff like Chompie bird hats and Castle Wars armor), WoW only starts once you reach maximum level. Even so, if skilling is your thing, and you take satisfaction in slowly but surely grinding your way to 99's, you are going to be disappointed in WoW, as it's a completely different game in that regard.

 

 

 

As for not winning your opponent's kit when defeating them in PVP, you'd have to play to understand. Take it from me that WoW players find it equally ridicilous when told that in 'Scape, you lose your kit when you get killed by another player. In 'Scape, you can equip your standard set of full rune and still do relatively well, whereas in WoW, you'll always be running around with your very best kit in order to be competitive. It's completely different and thus shouldn't be compared.

[Randox]

You won't get good answers asking it on this forum. Something like haft of the forum are fanboys who never tried anything but one or two other mmos . As usual, this is what they're going to say, very fery predictable: "RS is just SOOO good for java!" "And it's browser-based!" "WOW fans are idiots!" "And WOW is expensive!" "OMG RS is SO much better" "TBH, I tried WOW and I didn't like it" "I prefer new RS graphics, it's SOO much better!" and so on. Really, stupid, just don't post threads like that here.

 

 

 

I'd play WoW, but considering just how much more expensive it would be (and since I am the one paying, I just can't be bothered to go out and buy it, then install it. RuneScape is much more convieniant. With RS, I don't feel any need to play to 'get my moneys worth', but I would definatly have that problem with WoW. Besides, I hate being a newb.

[dragon312]

You can't play WoW casually if you want to get good at it... the raiding alone takes like 3 hours minimum for just kara, thats the reason I don't like it.

[Roberthree]

I would be playing WoW right now if my PC could handle it.

[Georgelemmons]

I don't think you can really "go back" to Runescape or WoW, because they're different games. They have many differences, and I think one would be able to play both, without "leaving" one game, and "going back to" another.

[War_Junky_91]

Really its different things that attract different people. For me its all about game play, i could care less about graphics, i have played some awesomely amazing games that have half way horrilbe graphics. Like Quake 2, easily in my top 5 best games of all time, but look at how it looks:

 

[hide=Quake 2][/hide] It looks like that but i have had massive fun playing it, just because of how awesome the gameplay is.

 

 

 

I have played WoW and i didn't really enjoy it too much, not the right type of game play for me.

[Soldierx10]

I played runescape for about 2 years, Than I bought wow, leveled a character to 60 (top level then) I play for about 6 months, But it never emersed me into the game like Runescape does, in Runescape there is always something to do, new quests every week, new mini games. In Wow patches come very far apart, once you hit 60 you have 2 things to do, Raid or pvp.Neither of which you be successful in unless you dedicate about a month to getting the best equip you can.

 

 

 

In short:

 

WoW is all flash, its fun dont get me wrong but it doesnt get to me like runescape. In my opinion the two games are very hard to compare due to the vast differences in the little things that make each game different.

[Bloodveld]

Another gigantic difference is the role the community plays in the game. Runescape's community (including official forums and fansites) is pretty much vital to the game's success. WoW's community barely extends past the official forums (aside from a few fan sites...but none hold the kind of lnfluence that a site like Tip.It holds on RS) which are mostly a spamfest of people from 4chan. :S

Not true. A huge part of WoW is it's community, as things like guilds, raiding, and pvp at lower levels all have huge communities both ingame and on separate forums.

 

 

 

I meant the fansites. It's obvious that guilds have websites as it's just easier to communicate with a guild as a whole when you use a website. But it doesn't have communities like tip.it really. I mean you could argue that Elitist Jerks, Wowhead, and Thottbot are kind of like it, but they're also very different. I don't think WoW has a website that influences the game as much as sites like Tip.It do on RS.

 

The official forums, oddly enough, are quite nice, although there is a lot of spam to go along with it.

 

 

 

The main reason for a lack of forums in WoW is probably because they don't need it. Global chat channels, an auction house, and more make forums much less useful then RS. (Yes, rs has these things too, but in a horribly watered down version thanks to RWT.)

 

 

 

I never played WOW and never will. Someone was saying WOW is harder game then RS? I have plenty of WOW friends leveling up their characters to max in 2-3 weeks. How in the hell will you level RS character to 138 in 3 weeks? You barely could get one skill to 99 with nolifing on fight stats.

Anyone care to tell me why this is a good thing? What game would someone want to play for months just to get one stat maxed out while doing nothing but no-lifing? I mean, if it was exciting and fast-pased, maybe, but turning on auto-retaliate and running into a room full of aggressive mobs while you watch tv isn't exactly a blast.

 

 

 

In WoW, the only people who get to 70 in 3 weeks are people who have months of experience leveling alternate characters and no-life for the three weeks. Most people's first character will take much longer then that.

[re4p3r1]

WoW is a pretty fun game but it gets real old fast. if you think rs is repetitive go play WoW for a week, its pretty much non stop grinding.

 

 

 

the clans on WoW are much more active then RS clans but finding a good fight is rare many clans get outnumbered and outleveled.

[Death_Hippy]

I could really care less about this argument, if only because I've played both games and they're all rpg, the same thing. I quit most mmorpg's after realizing that I could actually hear a players voice in other games (WoW mic doesn't count. Very quiet, very low quality). Then, when I played the mmorpg's I previously thought were godly, I was like :( lonelyness. I was only hearing the constant blips or "blurrrrshss" sounds of my spells, and not the constant speak of the other games I had just tried out. Though I had a blast with Mmorpg's while it lasted (all my friends on rs quit and my WoW account got hacked =_=) I can't really play them like I used to. But, if I had to choose between WoW and Runescape...I'd say Diablo2.

[Poppet]

Why Wow I mean $15 dollars just to buy the disc $15 a month for membership if you need to upgrade your comp. thats like $50+ dollars in one month possibly lower While RS can be nonmember so free to all and You can pay $5 a month so $60 a month to $180 means RS Is so much better to play than WoW but, If your willing the pay $15 a month + starting fee Go with RS and anyways Wow requires full screen always so on Rs you can surf the web for stuff :lol: So this is a rs forum Don't play Wow kids play RS

[999134]

sorry to say this to wow players

 

COD4>WOW price

 

COD4>WOW gameplay

 

COD4>WOW graphics

 

WOW>COD4 varaiation

 

Runescape>WOW varaiation

 

 

 

Runescape is different in its own way but if you want graphic etc and not a good game buy call of duty 4 and save yourself $500 dollars a month.

[Bloodveld]

sorry to say this to wow players

 

COD4>WOW price

 

COD4>WOW gameplay

 

COD4>WOW graphics

 

WOW>COD4 varaiation

 

Runescape>WOW varaiation

 

 

 

Runescape is different in its own way but if you want graphic etc and not a good game buy call of duty 4 and save yourself $500 dollars a month.

 

Vegas 2 > CoD4

[Knite]

I never played WOW and never will. Someone was saying WOW is harder game then RS? I have plenty of WOW friends leveling up their characters to max in 2-3 weeks. How in the hell will you level RS character to 138 in 3 weeks? You barely could get one skill to 99 with nolifing on fight stats.

 

 

 

Getting a skill to 99 in 'Scape isn't hard, it's simply time consuming. A trained monkey could do it, too. What I consider hard is organizing a group of 25 people to all do their part in order to take down a raid boss. Runescape's player vs. monster combat totally pales in comparison to WoW's, and there's no way a group of trained monkeys is going to down any raidbosses at all.

 

 

 

In 'Scape, you can bring pretty much anyone to whatever you're going to kill, and it'll help. If somebody dies due to doing something stupid, their loss. You'll manage with the remaining crew. In WoW, that person dieing is probably going to make your life much harder, as frequently fights are a race against the clock, or that person has to take care of a certain aspect of a fight, etc.

 

 

 

I see some people mentioning it's easy during levelling. Right. In 'Scape, you can run through a room filled with like 20 aggresive monsters without much risk at all. In WoW, unless said monsters are well below your level, you're going to die, period.

 

 

 

When comparing the two, one should keep in mind that while Runescape pretty much ends with you getting all 99's (and possibly stuff like Chompie bird hats and Castle Wars armor), WoW only starts once you reach maximum level. Even so, if skilling is your thing, and you take satisfaction in slowly but surely grinding your way to 99's, you are going to be disappointed in WoW, as it's a completely different game in that regard.

 

 

 

As for not winning your opponent's kit when defeating them in PVP, you'd have to play to understand. Take it from me that WoW players find it equally ridicilous when told that in 'Scape, you lose your kit when you get killed by another player. In 'Scape, you can equip your standard set of full rune and still do relatively well, whereas in WoW, you'll always be running around with your very best kit in order to be competitive. It's completely different and thus shouldn't be compared.

 

 

 

1. About the fact that WOW raiding is very specific and hard to do is probably right, but we are talking about JAVA game vs CD-ROM game and that's probably why the bosses in runescape aren't too powerful. I think runescape would improve for the future, if they would release a CD-ROM game, but i admit that raiding in WOW is tons harder then in runescape.

 

2. Runescape also "starts" when you reach highest possible level in something useful such as range, hp or so. You have better possibility to survive soloing bosses or doing godwars bosses with faster tempo, etc etc.

 

3. WOW is better PVP game, I never liked runescape version 2 PK System. I really miss RSC PK which was great, but these days the armouring and weapons we have are way too powerful to go back to 3 rounding system / no eating.

 

4. I think it's exciting that you have to watch what stuff you are going to use and that you have the chance of losing your best items. For example Fire cape, if you lose that you have to go through a process to get it back which is exciting and also very frustrating sometimes. For me it just seems like it's boring if you never have risk of losing anything in the game and eventually you get bored and quit. :)

 

 

 

It's really hard to say all things for fact, because i haven't played WOW, but i am typing with the information i have heard from the game. AGAIN, these are my opinions and i am not trying to start an argument or anything about this subject, but before someone says something like that they should first train their character to max in runescape and then talk again. PEACE

 

 

 

BTW: I'd buy you a beer, if you could find me a monkey to train 99's with. I really really hate runecrafting, you know.

[Knite]

Once again double posted - Modetator remove my post, if you spot this.

[Nadril]

No idea why or how I stumbled upon this topic (I have an hour left at work and absolutely nothing to do) but these are my opinions. Keep in mind that I played runescape for a bit over a year (maybe 2 total) as a kid, I played WoW for over a year and I have played several other MMORPGs.

 

 

 

 

 

TL;DR version: Runescape sucks. WoW has ok PvE content but horrible PvP content.

 

 

 

 

 

Long version:

 

 

 

Runescape is just horrible. It's nothing but an addiction fueled game to race to the top stats and involves no thought process other than "shiny monster, click, gather loot". I'll spare going into any sort of actual detail but the only redeeming factor of this game is it's easy ascesability. But, whatever, I'd compare it to other java minigames more than a real MMO. The best thing is that I'd be willing to be a large majority of you do not play Runescape alone, and can only have fun (read: tolerate) with it when you're talking on AIM/MSN, watching TV, watching a movie, doing anything else that isn't actually focusing on runescape. I mean, if you're not going to actually be playing the game then why play?

 

 

 

WoW is "ok". This is coming from a guy who raided up to the Black Temple level so I certainly am not someone who got to 20 and quit, or someone who only did Kara. What I should say is that, for a PvE oriented player, WoW is just fine. While I never found any of the BC content (except for kael) hard at the least for most players it does at least prove somewhat of a chalange. Downing a boss for the first time is a pretty fun experience.

 

 

 

The problem comes in the carrot-on-a-stick sort of gameplay that most of the community follows upon. While I realize that gear progression is needed (to an extent) for raid encounters in WoW the entire reason of raiding, for the most part, is to get gear. Now please spare me the details of how almost all other raiding games (EQII,EQ,ect.) follow the same logic and realize that I am just talking about WoW here. What I'm trying to say is that after you clear the games content, which for a well progressed guild is quite easy and can be done in a matter of weeks, there is nothing to do but farm for gear. Gear for what? Well, not for PvP because of Blizzard handing out easy epics to players. For the most part though the raiding was at least enjoyable, although having to run instances every week sucks.

 

 

 

The games PvP is a monumental failure, however. From a very much post-BC perspective, the arenas destroyed any hopes of PvP. Well, in actuality the battlegrounds killed it and the arenas were just the salt in the wound.

 

 

 

PvP in WoW, at high end (none of this lowbie PvP or miss-matched gear PvP, but PvP at the top level with top gear) ends up being nothing more than a predictable encounter in the arenas, only determained by what classes are there, luck with crits and the numerous other [cabbage] values Blizzard put in and a very small amount of skill.

 

 

 

Ask anyone who has competed at higher levels, PvP is very formulatic. I played a rogue/druid combo (me being the rogue) in S3 at a 1900+ rating. I never cared to get higher, and my druid quit, but it doesn't mater.

 

 

 

The point is is that pretty much every fight was a formula like we did for raiding. Oh, a priest/lock? (making something up here). Well ok I'll burn the lock, cyclone his pet (for SL) and I'll blind priest when he tries to get a heal off.

 

 

 

And that was it. They would react with their own formula (like fear bomb us, try and build distance, take it slow) and numbers would win the fight.

 

 

 

 

 

The biggest problem is that the games PvP, which in most games is built upon the actual struggle between players, was turned into nothing more than a way for the casuals to get easy epics. Arena teams were made not to have fun and to try and do well into PvP but to "just lose 10 games a week" and get their easy epics. Battlegrounds revolve around a bunch of guys just AFKing for honor despite blizzards numerous attempts to stop it. There is no competition in the game any more, even at the highest level it's the same few groups fighting each other over and over.

 

 

 

If you bought WoW to play a PvP game, backout -- please. This is not some fanboy or hater talking, this is someone who has played through the game objectively and has spent plenty of time on it. During most of my time in WoW PvP was simply an afterthought to the PvE game, and I hated that which prompted me to quit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That was longer than I thought it would be. My problem with people and MMOs are that they very rarely view them outside a couple of choices, completly oblivious to so many other choices. World of Warcraft, runescape, and Guild Wars* are not the only MMOs out there folks.

 

 

 

*IMO not an MMO, thats for another thread though

[Kill_Thomas9]

2. Runescape also "starts" when you reach highest possible level in something useful such as range, hp or so. You have better possibility to survive soloing bosses or doing godwars bosses with faster tempo, etc etc.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but I have to differ with you on that one. In runescape, you can easily bring a group of 30 level 30 players (the eqivalent of level 25 in WoW) to the king black dragon (lvl 276), equip anti-dragon shields, put up melee protect, drink a few prayer pots and antifire pots, bring a few sharks, and kill him in 5 minutes.

 

 

 

If you bring a group of 30 level 25 players to a boss in WoW, first of all, they won't make it to the boss, and even if they did, they would all get 1 hitted, and would be missing, and have ALL of the attacks that don't miss either blocked of parried. And yeah, the noobs won't survive at the Daggonoth Kings. But you can bring a level 120, who has all stats at level 94 (halfway to 99) and kill the kings with considerable ease. If you bring a group of level 65's (I'd say halfway to 70) to an endgame raid, they would die. Plain and simple. Even if they were level 67 they still wouldn't have much of a chance of making it to the first boss, let alone killing it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. WOW is better PVP game, I never liked runescape version 2 PK System. I really miss RSC PK which was great, but these days the armouring and weapons we have are way too powerful to go back to 3 rounding system / no eating.

 

 

 

 

*Agreed*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. I think it's exciting that you have to watch what stuff you are going to use and that you have the chance of losing your best items. For example Fire cape, if you lose that you have to go through a process to get it back which is exciting and also very frustrating sometimes. For me it just seems like it's boring if you never have risk of losing anything in the game and eventually you get bored and quit. :)

 

 

 

Yes, that may be true for 'Scape, but imagine if you were standing in Varrok, and a group of 20 maxed players from some side opposing you came running towards the city and started attacking everybody. Everybody dies and looses their full dragon and partyhats that they're parading around the ciry. That happens in WoW, and I don't think people would appreciate loosing all their hard earned items that they spent thousands of gold on. (1g in WoW = about 2k in 'Scape.) And people die much more easily in WoW. It isn't uncommon to die 1 or 2 times while getting one level. And that is because you can't kill more than two or three monsters of around your level at once without dieing. So i you kill something while another is attacking you, you kill that thing, and then another monster or two attacks you, you have a pretty solid chance of dieing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's really hard to say all things for fact, because i haven't played WOW, but i am typing with the information i have heard from the game. AGAIN, these are my opinions and i am not trying to start an argument or anything about this subject, but before someone says something like that they should first train their character to max in runescape and then talk again. PEACE

 

 

 

BTW: I'd buy you a beer, if you could find me a monkey to train 99's with. I really really hate runecrafting, you know.

 

 

 

 

 

Get me a monkey, a bucket of grubs, a touchscreen, an LED attached to a USB port, a character with enough dragon bones for 99 prayer, and I can get a player with maxed melee..

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. I'm not arguing, I'm trying to have a discussion.

[Kill_Thomas9]

I believe this deserved it's own post.

 

 

 

 

 

No idea why or how I stumbled upon this topic (I have an hour left at work and absolutely nothing to do) but these are my opinions. Keep in mind that I played runescape for a bit over a year (maybe 2 total) as a kid, I played WoW for over a year and I have played several other MMORPGs.

 

 

 

 

 

TL;DR version: Runescape sucks. WoW has ok PvE content but horrible PvP content.

 

 

 

 

 

Long version:

 

 

 

Runescape is just horrible. It's nothing but an addiction fueled game to race to the top stats and involves no thought process other than "shiny monster, click, gather loot". I'll spare going into any sort of actual detail but the only redeeming factor of this game is it's easy ascesability. But, whatever, I'd compare it to other java minigames more than a real MMO. The best thing is that I'd be willing to be a large majority of you do not play Runescape alone, and can only have fun (read: tolerate) with it when you're talking on AIM/MSN, watching TV, watching a movie, doing anything else that isn't actually focusing on runescape. I mean, if you're not going to actually be playing the game then why play?

 

 

 

WoW is "ok". This is coming from a guy who raided up to the Black Temple level so I certainly am not someone who got to 20 and quit, or someone who only did Kara. What I should say is that, for a PvE oriented player, WoW is just fine. While I never found any of the BC content (except for kael) hard at the least for most players it does at least prove somewhat of a chalange. Downing a boss for the first time is a pretty fun experience.

 

 

 

The problem comes in the carrot-on-a-stick sort of gameplay that most of the community follows upon. While I realize that gear progression is needed (to an extent) for raid encounters in WoW the entire reason of raiding, for the most part, is to get gear. Now please spare me the details of how almost all other raiding games (EQII,EQ,ect.) follow the same logic and realize that I am just talking about WoW here. What I'm trying to say is that after you clear the games content, which for a well progressed guild is quite easy and can be done in a matter of weeks, there is nothing to do but farm for gear. Gear for what? Well, not for PvP because of Blizzard handing out easy epics to players. For the most part though the raiding was at least enjoyable, although having to run instances every week sucks.

 

 

 

The games PvP is a monumental failure, however. From a very much post-BC perspective, the arenas destroyed any hopes of PvP. Well, in actuality the battlegrounds killed it and the arenas were just the salt in the wound.

 

 

 

PvP in WoW, at high end (none of this lowbie PvP or miss-matched gear PvP, but PvP at the top level with top gear) ends up being nothing more than a predictable encounter in the arenas, only determained by what classes are there, luck with crits and the numerous other [cabbage] values Blizzard put in and a very small amount of skill.

 

 

 

Ask anyone who has competed at higher levels, PvP is very formulatic. I played a rogue/druid combo (me being the rogue) in S3 at a 1900+ rating. I never cared to get higher, and my druid quit, but it doesn't mater.

 

 

 

The point is is that pretty much every fight was a formula like we did for raiding. Oh, a priest/lock? (making something up here). Well ok I'll burn the lock, cyclone his pet (for SL) and I'll blind priest when he tries to get a heal off.

 

 

 

And that was it. They would react with their own formula (like fear bomb us, try and build distance, take it slow) and numbers would win the fight.

 

 

 

 

 

The biggest problem is that the games PvP, which in most games is built upon the actual struggle between players, was turned into nothing more than a way for the casuals to get easy epics. Arena teams were made not to have fun and to try and do well into PvP but to "just lose 10 games a week" and get their easy epics. Battlegrounds revolve around a bunch of guys just AFKing for honor despite blizzards numerous attempts to stop it. There is no competition in the game any more, even at the highest level it's the same few groups fighting each other over and over.

 

 

 

If you bought WoW to play a PvP game, backout -- please. This is not some fanboy or hater talking, this is someone who has played through the game objectively and has spent plenty of time on it. During most of my time in WoW PvP was simply an afterthought to the PvE game, and I hated that which prompted me to quit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That was longer than I thought it would be. My problem with people and MMOs are that they very rarely view them outside a couple of choices, completly oblivious to so many other choices. World of Warcraft, runescape, and Guild Wars* are not the only MMOs out there folks.

 

 

 

*IMO not an MMO, thats for another thread though

 

 

 

 

 

Although all your points are great ones, and very much true, that is the way everything in the world works. When you are playing any sport in the world, there are formulas that involve "We are going to X player X. Player Y will most likely try to X, in which case we will Y" ect. This is also true in war, the closest thing to PvP we have in the real world. The come up with X plot to do if the other side acts in X way. If the other side does Y, we will do Z. And so on. That is the way the world works. Sure you can try to confuse the other team by doing something they don't expect, but they most likely have a plan for that too.

 

 

 

The only way I see to have a game that is truely random in PvP, is to have a game where PvP isn't ture PvP at all. Meaning the player presses such a button, and the computer reacts in a random way, deciding on some random type of attack or freezes the other player in some way, and the other player reacts by doing some action of his own choice. In that case the game is more EvP, not PvP.

 

 

 

And yes, some of the other games you posted do have better PvE systems than WoW (some by a long shot), but if you pay attention to the new expansion comming out reletively soon, there are going to be many changes to PvP such as Seige warfare, destructable building, ect.

[Nadril]

Although all your points are great ones, and very much true, that is the way everything in the world works. When you are playing any sport in the world, there are formulas that involve "We are going to X player X. Player Y will most likely try to X, in which case we will Y" ect. This is also true in war, the closest thing to PvP we have in the real world. The come up with X plot to do if the other side acts in X way. If the other side does Y, we will do Z. And so on. That is the way the world works. Sure you can try to confuse the other team by doing something they don't expect, but they most likely have a plan for that too.

 

 

 

Of course there is always "if they do X, we should do Y". However part of the difficulty in say, football, is you don't know what they'll do. In the arena it quite simply is almost always the same. You know that the enemy is going to do X because to do Y would leave them open. There is no multiple plans of action at the higher end, you always do some things because it is foolish to do it any other way.

 

 

 

 

 

And comparing it to the real world is just sad. You don't know what's going to happen in war.

 

 

 

The only way I see to have a game that is truely random in PvP, is to have a game where PvP isn't ture PvP at all. Meaning the player presses such a button, and the computer reacts in a random way, deciding on some random type of attack or freezes the other player in some way, and the other player reacts by doing some action of his own choice. In that case the game is more EvP, not PvP.

 

 

 

True random is never possible in a game or computer simulation. ;p

 

 

 

At any rate however numerous other games have done the PvP thing much better due to the fact that there are much more ways to take care of something. In WoW's arena, for one, only a few various type of team builds are ever really that effective. Sure there are oddities up there, but if you use a tool like on sk-gaming.com you can see a clear cut trend in various team matchups.

 

 

 

 

 

In most MMOs that do good for PvP they usually focus on a larger scale PvP, but also try and turn away from certain needs. In WoW PvP you almost have to have a PvP circle (in top end, 5v5 and even 3v3/2v2 a lot) that has a healer, CCer and debuffer (MS Debuff). Without those 3 things a team is very useless.

 

 

 

In other MMOS however you don't need these to be effective. Since most others focus on world PvP there is so many other options and situations that can happen, such as the element of suprise, that balances out certain team choices.

 

 

 

And yes, some of the other games you posted do have better PvE systems than WoW (some by a long shot), but if you pay attention to the new expansion comming out reletively soon, there are going to be many changes to PvP such as Seige warfare, destructable building, ect.

 

 

 

I've paid plenty attention to WoTLK and the expansion is just more of the same. More raids, in which they nerf content again by making it 10 or 25 mans and "more" PvP. Seige warfare sounds fine and all except that it still is very much just a glorified minigame or sorts, and something that other PvP MMOs have done years and years ago much better.