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jenova1692

Charging for item lending moral?

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A player must pay for an item to own it in the first place. It only makes sense that someone should pay you some money for using an item you spent your money on.

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Game items must only be exchanged for other items/services within the game. Exchanging game items for items or other benefits in other online games, real-life money or other real-life benefits is not allowed.

 

I believe loaning someone an item is a service?

 

 

 

Not to mention the fact that pretty much every Jagex mod gives a different answer on the same question, I highly doubt that it is actually against the rules, not that I'd really care.

 

 

 

And as for morality? It's just rent. If it's immoral to rent someone a sword, then it's immoral to rent a car, hotel room or house. It's that simple.


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Good topic by the way. :thumbup:

 

 

 

I'm questioning what I want to do with my items I don't use often. I own a Yellow, Red Mask, Santa, D Axe just to name a few. AND, I am rarely using them. I personally would like to set up a business to rent out the items daily. The extra income will definitely help future Slayer tasks for equipment and supplies. Right now, I'm extremely focused on Slayer, but often find myself running out of Runes/Arrows/Cannonballs. I hate breaking my "Keep Going" attitude to have to sidetrack and make the supplies again. And believe it or not, I'm not rich. The items I have I got lucky with before the big price increases. For example, I got my Yellow Phat at 16m. Its now like 170mish. Good investment? Nope. Because I will never sell it. It was, in fact, a 16m loss. And has absolutely no return value. But now, I see a way to make a modest return by using it as a rental item. I keep it for events and sometimes just to hang out with on Free Servers. And its also a sign that I achieved a goal I fought hard to get. Back then, I think I was a lowly level 60. So before anyone says "Sell it," that is the reason why. But for the most part, it sits in my bank and does nothing for me.

 

 

 

That is my thoughts on it. And I'm hoping (after someone clears up the rules around it) I can make a modest supply income off the above mentioned items.

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I think they should have made the Item lending feature available to your Friends. Meaning that you can only lend items to people on your friend list. This would certainly cut down on the beggars.

 

 

 

Its rather realistic, since why would you lend an item to a complete stranger? Surely you would only want to do that if you got some kind of currency or item in return.

 

 

 

I see why some people think this is unfair, lending an item to a friend should be free, I dont see you charging friends for borrowing your cycle to go to the hospital.

 

 

 

Last but not least, plug your ears with banana's when the noobs are talking. This way any physical or mental damage from utter nonsence is prevented. Please do not push those banana's in too deep though, you might damage your ear.


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The reason it's against the rules is not because it's immoral, but because it is impossible to control. Say you are lending an item for 3k. You have two options here. One, you can collect your 3k before you lend out the item. In this case, you could just pocket the money and walk away, as the old "trust trade" scam went. In the second case, you lend the item for a select period of time, and then collect. This time, the other player can just walk away with the lent item and you are out of luck until the time period is over. If you choose to lend until one player logs out, then you are back to the first situation of you walking away, or, in this case, logging out, and you pocket the profit without any penalty.

 

 

 

It's against the rules because of the possibility of scammers promising to lend an item just so they can get rich and it would be a nightmare for customer support to sort through the valid complaints of scamming.


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well lets put it this way. last night i have some1 offer 3m to barrow my bgs for 24 hours...and if i wasnt barrowing it myself i would have


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Lol people ask me all the time to lend them my AGS, Bandos armour, etc. I charge 30k an hour for AGS, and 15k an hour for bandos top and bottom, using junk trading where neccesary. Totally fine, and it's pretty cheap. I skill mostly now, so we're both happy. :D


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It's renting. During the time that you don't have it, you can't use it. Of course it is.


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There is nothing wrong with charging people to borrow your items. I repeat.. nothing wrong with it. There is a problem with people being dishonest and not fulfulling their end of the bargain. In its present state, that can happen and I would advise not "renting" a peice of equipment unless you trust the person or until Jagex can add this in, in some way. The reason it is ok to do this is because nobody is making you pay for renting that item. You have two choices. 1. Trust this person and do the trades. 2. You don't do it and no harm is done... To think that it is immoral is goofy. If people we taking advantage of somebody to make money WHEN THAT PERSON HAS NO OTHER ALTERNATIVES, then it is wrong.


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The reason it's against the rules is not because it's immoral, but because it is impossible to control. Say you are lending an item for 3k. You have two options here. One, you can collect your 3k before you lend out the item. In this case, you could just pocket the money and walk away, as the old "trust trade" scam went. In the second case, you lend the item for a select period of time, and then collect. This time, the other player can just walk away with the lent item and you are out of luck until the time period is over. If you choose to lend until one player logs out, then you are back to the first situation of you walking away, or, in this case, logging out, and you pocket the profit without any penalty.

 

 

 

It's against the rules because of the possibility of scammers promising to lend an item just so they can get rich and it would be a nightmare for customer support to sort through the valid complaints of scamming.

 

 

 

If I am correct there is no rule against "renting" out your items. If you are refering to the Item scamming rule then you are also wrong. It would only be item scamming if the person took the money and didn't finish the deal. You are not breaking the rules if you complete your end of the deal.

 

I myself will never "rent" some elses peice of equipment because I get no sense of accomplishment getting it. Secondly, I don't trust most people in the game. I have numorous examples, but so does everyone else.

 

 

 

EDIT: If I had a rare item, I would def. rent it out to people for a price (A way for me to get rid of alot of hardleather bodies). I would not scam this person at all. I would be honest about it, but I do understand there is no way to insure this.


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I Personaly disagree with it, But i can see your reasoning. As long as the person knows that they are only getting it for a short while and not buying it then thats ok. I dislike it, I think the system was made to help friends out. Not just anyone.


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You paid X amount of money for the item, if you rent it for free you're just Giving Away an amount of money/experience that you could have made with that item had you kept it. So if you rent it out for free, you're losing X money/exp. It's only natural that the renter should pay.

 

 

 

I'm no expert woodcutter, but let's say you have a dragon axe. You decide to lend it out after one hour of woodcutting, in which time you made 40k exp and got 800 willows. (im not much a wcer so these figures aren't real.) So, let's say, if you sold those willows you would make X amount of money. If you rent it out and the renter does not pay you more than the amount of money you made with the item, you're losing potential money that you could have made just by keeping the item. Not to mention the exp!


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jagex mods has said its reportable to charge money for lending items. gf


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The reason it's against the rules is not because it's immoral, but because it is impossible to control. Say you are lending an item for 3k. You have two options here. One, you can collect your 3k before you lend out the item. In this case, you could just pocket the money and walk away, as the old "trust trade" scam went. In the second case, you lend the item for a select period of time, and then collect. This time, the other player can just walk away with the lent item and you are out of luck until the time period is over. If you choose to lend until one player logs out, then you are back to the first situation of you walking away, or, in this case, logging out, and you pocket the profit without any penalty.

 

 

 

It's against the rules because of the possibility of scammers promising to lend an item just so they can get rich and it would be a nightmare for customer support to sort through the valid complaints of scamming.

 

 

 

It's not against the rules, or the very numerous threads in Armor&Weapons that have "renting X item $$$K an hour"

 

are not locked. Also, the sticky for lending items specifically says that thread is not for Renting, or Charging people to borrow an item, yet there are tons of posts advertising borrowing X godsword $$K/hour and vice verca. They're not hidden.


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jagex mods has said its reportable to charge money for lending items. gf

 

 

 

See above post. Also,

 

 

 

RULE 12: Game items must only be exchanged for other items/services within the game.

 

 

 

To quote someone again, just earlier in this thread someone wrote that item lending is a service, no? Well, ingame coins are an item. And they are within the game. So they're going to have to change rule 12 if they make this illegal...


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time = money

 

 

 

so asking some k's for you item is ok imo. BUT i don't lend out items, only items people want r dfs + fury, fury i use myself and dfs is not lendable

 

 

 

jagex mods has said its reportable to charge money for lending items. gf

 

 

 

wooo you're cool for flaming us while we are DISCUSSING if it's reasonable to ask money for item lending, we're not talkin' how much for what item for what time.

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The reason it's against the rules is not because it's immoral, but because it is impossible to control. Say you are lending an item for 3k. You have two options here. One, you can collect your 3k before you lend out the item. In this case, you could just pocket the money and walk away, as the old "trust trade" scam went. In the second case, you lend the item for a select period of time, and then collect. This time, the other player can just walk away with the lent item and you are out of luck until the time period is over. If you choose to lend until one player logs out, then you are back to the first situation of you walking away, or, in this case, logging out, and you pocket the profit without any penalty.

 

 

 

It's against the rules because of the possibility of scammers promising to lend an item just so they can get rich and it would be a nightmare for customer support to sort through the valid complaints of scamming.

 

 

 

It's not against the rules, or the very numerous threads in Armor&Weapons that have "renting X item $$$K an hour"

 

are not locked. Also, the sticky for lending items specifically says that thread is not for Renting, or Charging people to borrow an item, yet there are tons of posts advertising borrowing X godsword $$K/hour and vice verca. They're not hidden.

 

Just because it isn't hidden doesn't mean that it isn't against the rules. Here's proof:

 

 

 

[Source]

 

Charging or offering gold to rent an item is effectively a trust trade. There is no guarantee that either party will honour their end of the offer.

 

 

 

------

 

 

 

Hi ***********,

 

 

 

Please do not offer rentals of items as this is classed as 'trust trading' and is not allowed. Please read the opening post of this thread for more information.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Mod Dave


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It seemed pretty obvious that they wouldn't allow "renting" items to other players by charging cash. They'll surely add this rule somewhere soon.

 

 

No rule to add, its a form of 'trust trading' and therefore reportable in the time honoured tradition.

 

 

 

Here's what one forum mod had to say.

 

 

 

Don't like it? Don't lend would seem to be the answer.

 

 

 

Imo, even if it wasn't against the rules, charging for lending an item is against the spirit of the game and defeats the object of doing a friend a favour. You want your item to make you money? Press it into use by skilling with it or sell it.


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Press it into use by skilling with it or sell it.

 

 

 

So I'm assuming you've come up with a method to skill with a party hat? I find your post extremely stupid. How is it "against the spirit of the game". You seem to know what your talking about so do enlighten us on what "the spirit of the game" is.

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Press it into use by skilling with it or sell it.

 

 

 

So I'm assuming you've come up with a method to skill with a party hat? I find your post extremely stupid. How is it "against the spirit of the game". You seem to know what your talking about so do enlighten us on what "the spirit of the game" is.

 

 

 

Oooh, touch a ickle nerve did I? :roll:

 

 

 

Well since you've decided to mention rare's as an example, you'll no doubt be aware that there is and continues be a market for these items, one way of skilling with these types of items is to predict/guess/calculate or similar the rise or fall in price of said item for trading resulting in the owner gaining more wealth. The act of demonstrating the command of the accumulated wealth, ie, buying and selling these items is the logical progression of obtaining the skill in the above. Does that fit into your description of skill?

 

 

 

Spirit of the game? Depends on the context, but I think here its undertaking of a act without seeking a tangible gain. If you like charging for every least thing you do in this game, fine by me and all that, but the community at large don't expect to be billed for every nice thing that happens to them.

 

 

 

Edit: I did also put 'or sell it' in case you phailed to observe that?


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or how bout another "skill" related to rares, using your own vast wealth to buy a rare and then let others use for a VERY small fraction of that cost. And undertaking of an act without tangible gain? By that you mean doing something to get money? Well that contradicts what you said earlier about buying and selling rares. You are gaining money by giving someone else what they want, which happens to be almost exactly the same as renting an item out, except renting is targeting a less wealthy audience. So now buying or selling anything is against the "spirit of the game". What is the GE for?

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or how bout another "skill" related to rares,

 

Go suggest it to the right people?

 

 

 

or how bout another "skill" related to rares, using your own vast wealth to buy a rare and then let others use for a VERY small fraction of that cost.

 

A trust trade is still a trust trade, even if its for a 'VERY small fraction of that cost'.

 

 

 

And undertaking of an act without tangible gain? By that you mean doing something to get money?

 

Well done, yes, though not necessarily money on every occasion.

 

 

 

Well that contradicts what you said earlier about buying and selling rares.

 

No, not really. If you want to permanently move item-x to your account, you have to part with amount-y in value, if you manage to convince someone else at a undefined period of time later to pay amount-z which is higher, this could be put down to your skill in buying/selling.

 

Renting a item in manner that has been described here and on the RSOF, along with the current trading system is considered a form of trust trading.

 

So now buying or selling anything is against the "spirit of the game". What is the GE for?

 

Were you unable to read my previous post in its entirety? You asked me to 'enlighten' you on what I felt the spirit of the game is, I specified that its usage was dependent on the context of how it is being applied.

 

I didn't say buying or selling was against the spirit of the game, so wise up and try not to put words in my mouth eh?


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I like how all of your counter-arguments just referred to "trust trades" and not to your original arguments, like mine did.

 

 

 

Go suggest it to the right people?

 

ok...when i said "skill" that was referring to the "skill" you mentioned earlier known as merchanting, and yes you indirectly mentioned that it was a skill

 

 

 

A trust trade is still a trust trade, even if its for a 'VERY small fraction of that cost'.

 

That has nothing to do with the relation between my argument and yours. And I never said anything about "trust trades" being against the rules, just that item lending is neither immoral nor "against the spirit of the game".

 

 

 

No, not really. If you want to permanently move item-x to your account, you have to part with amount-y in value, if you manage to convince someone else at a undefined period of time later to pay amount-z which is higher, this could be put down to your skill in buying/selling.

 

Renting a item in manner that has been described here and on the RSOF, along with the current trading system is considered a form of trust trading.

 

 

 

And using your buying/selling skill to decide what item is best to buy if you want to rent it out to others is directly related to your first argument. For your second argument....what does that have to do with any of my posts, or even yours for that matter?

 

 

 

Were you unable to read my previous post in its entirety? You asked me to 'enlighten' you on what I felt the spirit of the game is, I specified that its usage was dependent on the context of how it is being applied.

 

I didn't say buying or selling was against the spirit of the game, so wise up and try not to put words in my mouth eh?

 

 

 

I was not putting words in your mouth, I was making logical assumptions about your thoughts based on earlier arguments. You have yet to make a logical argument describing how your words could not lead someone to the conclusions I made, nor have you said how this particular "context" is "against the spirit of the game".

 

 

 

oh and this is something I forgot to add in earlier

 

 

 

Oooh, touch a ickle nerve did I? :roll:

 

 

 

Yeah, stupid people do that to me :lol:

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