"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[Ginger_Warrior]

Why? Can't over-50s have sex, or something...?

[iBe]

Why? Can't over-50s have sex, or something...?

 

Nobody is going to call a 50 year old woman a slut

[Ginger_Warrior]

That's really only due to people's stereotypical attitudes towards the idea of anyone past 45 having a sexual relationship. It has no relevance to whether the original activity is 'right' or not.

[nine naked men]

mods please rename thread to official golden girls appreciation station

[iBe]

Nooo, I've never seen an episode of golden girls in my life :(

[constrictor]

Ermmm..women after 50 can still be "sluts", actually, I'd argue by that point they tend to be even more trashy etc then sluts who are younger, they're just not as obvious about it on social network sites. Loool.

 

Also, as I always say, if it's a stereotype, it's a stereotype because it's true (or at least at one point in time was true).

[Ginger_Warrior]

Except it isn't.

 

65% of over-50s are sexually active, yet according to stereotypes, it "just doesn't / shouldn't happen".

[constrictor]

Except it isn't.

 

65% of over-50s are sexually active, yet according to stereotypes, it "just doesn't / shouldn't happen".

 

Personally, I think the stereotype is more that people over 50 have more sex then we are comfortable (we being younger generations) and thus we just say they don't perform coitus at all to qualm our "fears".

 

In nearly every other stereotype, however, they are normally true, brute generalizations to say the least, but generally true as well.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Let's assume that they are true. Doesn't that ignore why stereotypes which act as self-fulfilling prophecies may be flawed?

 

Listen, we all stereotype because it helps us to save time in understanding the world around us, but you seem to be accepting them as inherently true, or at the least 'excusable', which is... puzzling.

[constrictor]

Let's assume that they are true. Doesn't that ignore why stereotypes which act as self-fulfilling prophecies may be flawed?

 

Listen, we all stereotype because it helps us to save time in understanding the world around us, but you seem to be accepting them as inherently true, or at the least 'excusable', which is... puzzling.

 

Not sure entirely what you mean in the first part.

 

In respect to the second half, I agree, we stereotype to compartmentalize how we view the world, because quite frankly our natural state is ease/laziness. However, I don't think that just because a stereotype is true that it is excusable.

 

Example being, just because it is stereotypical for a slut to be trashy doesn't mean it's ok or should be expected, however, the reason it is stereotypical is because over the years, society has noticed that, in this example, sluts tend to be trashy.

 

I am not condoning sluts to be trashy or am I saying all trashy people are sluts or vice versa, however, the stereotype is there for a reason, and so it's not like society is viewing things all wrong because it is stereotyping a certain action etc

 

But this also brings to rise that people are individuals, and they are unique, and so as much as stereotypes are/can be true, they also are not, because every person is different, every experience is had, viewed, and applied differently.

 

So when discussing stereotypes, well honestly it'd be wise to challenge them but not claim them as false just because it was society who chose them. And on the contrary, when discuss individuals you should take each instance as it is: a unique and different experience for each unique and different individual.

 

Just my two cents.

[muggiwhplar]

When you look at it from the context of evolutionary biology, slut shaming is not entirely irrational.

 

I'm not suggesting it's acceptable, not in this day and age. But it's not completely irrational either.

 

What makes you say that? I can't really think of how it could be considered rational from that perspective

[constrictor]

[bleep]ing plants ruined us.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Let's assume that they are true. Doesn't that ignore why stereotypes which act as self-fulfilling prophecies may be flawed?

 

Listen, we all stereotype because it helps us to save time in understanding the world around us, but you seem to be accepting them as inherently true, or at the least 'excusable', which is... puzzling.

Not sure entirely what you mean in the first part.

Self-fulfilling prophecy is the concept that if person A treats person B differently due to their expectations of person B, then the person being stereotyped will mimic behaviour which is consistent to the stereotype. In this example, it would be that the stereotype of voluntary celibacy in the over-50s would cause over-50s themselves to engage in less sex-seeking behaviour. The stereotype is reinforcing the stereotype, even if the original stereotype holds no validity otherwise.

 

However, I don't think that just because a stereotype is true that it is excusable.

I wasn't referring to the stereotyped person's behaviour being excusable; that's an ethical debate, not a sociological one. I was suggesting that you find stereotyping ubiquitously excusable, even when those stereotypes are proven to be the inverse of reality, as iBe had with sexuality in the over-50s.

 

Example being, just because it is stereotypical for a slut to be trashy doesn't mean it's ok or should be expected, however, the reason it is stereotypical is because over the years, society has noticed that, in this example, sluts tend to be trashy.

 

I am not condoning sluts to be trashy or am I saying all trashy people are sluts or vice versa, however, the stereotype is there for a reason, and so it's not like society is viewing things all wrong because it is stereotyping a certain action etc

See my point on self-fulfilling prophecy. If society labels people who are sexually active with multiple partners 'trashy', is it really so hard to understand why a person labelled in that manner would, indeed, act more 'trashy'? We all gravitate towards society's expectations on how we behave; negative associations are no exception to that.

 

Essentially, you've confused the causal relationship between a woman being perceived as 'trashy' and that woman being more sexually active.

So when discussing stereotypes, well honestly it'd be wise to challenge them but not claim them as false just because it was society who chose them. And on the contrary, when discuss individuals you should take each instance as it is: a unique and different experience for each unique and different individual.

Just because "society chooses it" (however you define that specifically) does not necessarily mean the stereotype has much validity, if any at all. Society once stipulated that "N-words" had smaller brains and were therefore incapable of equal intellectual capacity with their white counterparts. Society once also stipulated that gay men and women were gay due to mental illness. Society once claimed women were incapable of doing any of the jobs men traditionally did.

 

Did any of these stereotypes hold any validity? Perhaps the last one holds very little validity given very exceptional circumstances (mixed gender physical sport, for instance), but none at all otherwise.

[obfuscator]

When you look at it from the context of evolutionary biology, slut shaming is not entirely irrational.

 

I'm not suggesting it's acceptable, not in this day and age. But it's not completely irrational either.

 

What makes you say that? I can't really think of how it could be considered rational from that perspective

 

GirlWritesWhat had a video where she explained it pretty well. Unfortunately with her I can never remember what video it actually was.

 

The gist of it was (if I remember correctly) that women are biologically more choosy when it comes to mates, because they bear greater biological risk when reproducing. As a result if she "gets around" she's more likely to become pregnant more often, and populate a community with many kids who may not be well cared for, etc.

 

Once again this is all from an evolutionary context. It doesn't apply so much in modern society.

 

This video explains it a lot more as well:

 

[iBe]

That was a very interesting video, I like how he compared us to animals biologically. It actually made a lot of sense, lol.

[Randox]

That man is always interesting.

 

Honestly, right now all I can think of is American Pie 2 explaining the rule of 3.

When asking someone about the number of sexual partners they've had MULTIPLY a woman's answer by 3, 'cause ladies don't wanna seem like the slut. When a man answers DIVIDE his number by 3 because he wants to seem like a player.

 

Anyway, Ginger has some excellent points about stereotypes, and their impact on behaviour. That is, we can show empirically that people in deindividualized situations (where a person has no identity, they do not believe they are being observed) will often display different behaviour. Off the cuff, there was a study that observed aggressiveness in males and females in a game where you drop bombs on each other. In the control, regular conditions, the males were the more aggressive gender, as expected, dropping more bombs on average than the females. In a deindividualized setting, the women were more aggressive, suggesting that women may actually be the more aggressive gender. You don't see it day to day because, much like being sexulay promiscuous, agressiveness is rewarded in men, and considered to be undesirable when women display the same traits.

 

You can see it in men too, probably within your own circle of friends. There is a point where a lot of men become embarrassed to admit they are virgins. It's not something you typically see guys be proud of. It's the reversal of the promiscuity stereotype. For us, it can be considered a virtue (on the flip side, some guys don't want a girl who has no experience), where it can be considered a failing in men. People lie, or you even end up with American Pie or, more recently, Sex Drive. I'm can't say for certain that guys never go out of their way to try and get their male virgin friends laid (though I'd be pretty surprised if it didn't), but the movies wouldn't be there, making money, if they didn't speak to people.

 

It's all a very long way of saying that stereotypes are not based purely on observation, because they create social pressure of their own, and thus have an influence on the behavior they observe. We are social creatures who try to fit in, which means trying to conform to stereotypes on the whole.

[constrictor]

I'm a virgin and 100% proud of it.

[Low Levelled]

I'm a virgin and 100% indifferent about it.

[MuffinMaddy]

Right, so picking up where I left off a few weeks ago, my attraction to the guy I newly fancy is getting stronger.

 

He had his birthday party yesterday which I went to. Before that, we hadn't spoken for like a week, as we had been texting about playing the bass guitar but it seemed to be me asking all the questions and making the effort. On one hand, apparently boys don't like texting, so it might just be that. On the other hand, he's just being friendly but eventually I'm going to get annoying if I keep up these texts/SMS'es. Hence, I took a break from it which seemed to do more good than harm. He invited me to his party which I excited about and I went to it yesterday.

 

He opened the door and gave me a hug, seemed genuinely happy to see me. Everyone was kind of casual, I felt a bit overdressed but it was still nice. I started by drinking a couple of beers, getting in the sociable mood, and then started getting tipsy quickly after some vodka. Then, he asked me to do a rap which I did which was quite fun, and we danced together in the garden. Probably because we were both a bit crazy. We did hug about five times during the night, and he had his hands around my waist when I was leaving. He saw me off and we took some photos and there is evidently some kind of Chemistry there. As friends maybe, but maybe there's potential for more.

 

However, the girl he got off with a few weeks ago seems to actually like him. I quite like her as well. However, I know that he doesn't like her, as it's come up in conversation and he says he doesn't find her actually attractive. She doesn't know this.

 

So I'm not sure as to whether to go for it, as in, maybe 'go' for something more with this guy or not

[Ginger_Warrior]

Before that, we hadn't spoken for like a week, as we had been texting about playing the bass guitar but it seemed to be me asking all the questions and making the effort. On one hand, apparently boys don't like texting, so it might just be that.

I suppose it depends on the guy, but generally I've found that guys text less than girls. Same goes for IM and Facebook Chat too. Wanna conversation with me? Come and talk to my face. I like body language.

 

He opened the door and gave me a hug, seemed genuinely happy to see me.

Positive sign, although friends hug too.

 

Everyone was kind of casual, I felt a bit overdressed but it was still nice.

Overdressing isn't possible. What matters more is whether the clothes are appropriate for the situation. A few young men I've met like going around in suit jackets and black trousers, even on a blisteringly hot summer's day in the park--they're also the type of blokes with long, scruffy, greasy hair and tour tee-shirts of rock bands who were playing before they were even born. Aside from ruining the jacket, that's clearly not appropriate and gives them the appearance of trying to be purposefully strange or rebellious against accepted 'norms' (not a trait which genuinely attracts many people). However, it would be suitable for, say, a job interview. If you came in a party dress which was simply fancier than everyone else's, I'd say there's no issue there; it's a party after all.

 

I started by drinking a couple of beers, getting in the sociable mood, and then started getting tipsy quickly after some vodka. Then, he asked me to do a rap which I did which was quite fun, and we danced together in the garden. Probably because we were both a bit crazy. We did hug about five times during the night, and he had his hands around my waist when I was leaving. He saw me off and we took some photos and there is evidently some kind of Chemistry there. As friends maybe, but maybe there's potential for more

It also suggests that he knows you feel the way you do about him, and that you wouldn't have minded him holding you.

 

However, the girl he got off with a few weeks ago seems to actually like him. I quite like her as well. However, I know that he doesn't like her, as it's come up in conversation and he says he doesn't find her actually attractive. She doesn't know this.

 

So I'm not sure as to whether to go for it, as in, maybe 'go' for something more with this guy or not

You like him. He likes you. So long as you're not literally sticking two fingers up at this girl, then "that's life" and she should accept that.

 

As an aside: You need to care less about what other people think or feel about you--for the most part, we tend to stereotype everyone we meet based on prior experiences anyway (as explained a couple of days ago in this thread), and so people's expectations of you are largely set in their own minds before you've even met them. This is completely out of your control and not something you should worry about.

 

By all means, accept positives, reflect on negatives, because that's how you pick out your strengths as a person and identify parts of yourself you might want to apply some polish to. But only accept things which people actually say to you. If he's not texted back, he might be bored, he might be busy, his phone's battery might have died. There are a thousand and one rational explanations other than "He doesn't like talking to me." Likewise with the clothes you wore: If you made an effort to make yourself look attractive, then so long as it wasn't disproportionate (see: tangerine-orange tans), there's much more chance of people being impressed than there is them thinking you looked awful or were trying too hard. If you assumed the latter, then the inverse statement would be: "If I dress down, wear dirty clothes and make myself look trashy, guys will find me attractive," which is a clearly ridiculous statement.

[constrictor]

In addition to what Gingy said, I'd also add that be careful to not overthink this.

 

Maybe this is just a problem in my life, but for months I over thought everything that went on between my girlfriend and I and it really doesn't help. Yes think throuh things, don't be blind about your relationship, but also enjoy it, take things at face value, etc. overthinking things can be equally as bad for building a relationship as not thinking throughg things can.

 

Hope it works out.

[MuffinMaddy]

Before that, we hadn't spoken for like a week, as we had been texting about playing the bass guitar but it seemed to be me asking all the questions and making the effort. On one hand, apparently boys don't like texting, so it might just be that.

I suppose it depends on the guy, but generally I've found that guys text less than girls. Same goes for IM and Facebook Chat too. Wanna conversation with me? Come and talk to my face. I like body language.

 

He opened the door and gave me a hug, seemed genuinely happy to see me.

Positive sign, although friends hug too.

 

Everyone was kind of casual, I felt a bit overdressed but it was still nice.

Overdressing isn't possible. What matters more is whether the clothes are appropriate for the situation. A few young men I've met like going around in suit jackets and black trousers, even on a blisteringly hot summer's day in the park--they're also the type of blokes with long, scruffy, greasy hair and tour tee-shirts of rock bands who were playing before they were even born. Aside from ruining the jacket, that's clearly not appropriate and gives them the appearance of trying to be purposefully strange or rebellious against accepted 'norms' (not a trait which genuinely attracts many people). However, it would be suitable for, say, a job interview. If you came in a party dress which was simply fancier than everyone else's, I'd say there's no issue there; it's a party after all.

 

I started by drinking a couple of beers, getting in the sociable mood, and then started getting tipsy quickly after some vodka. Then, he asked me to do a rap which I did which was quite fun, and we danced together in the garden. Probably because we were both a bit crazy. We did hug about five times during the night, and he had his hands around my waist when I was leaving. He saw me off and we took some photos and there is evidently some kind of Chemistry there. As friends maybe, but maybe there's potential for more

It also suggests that he knows you feel the way you do about him, and that you wouldn't have minded him holding you.

 

However, the girl he got off with a few weeks ago seems to actually like him. I quite like her as well. However, I know that he doesn't like her, as it's come up in conversation and he says he doesn't find her actually attractive. She doesn't know this.

 

So I'm not sure as to whether to go for it, as in, maybe 'go' for something more with this guy or not

You like him. He likes you. So long as you're not literally sticking two fingers up at this girl, then "that's life" and she should accept that.

 

As an aside: You need to care less about what other people think or feel about you--for the most part, we tend to stereotype everyone we meet based on prior experiences anyway (as explained a couple of days ago in this thread), and so people's expectations of you are largely set in their own minds before you've even met them. This is completely out of your control and not something you should worry about.

 

By all means, accept positives, reflect on negatives, because that's how you pick out your strengths as a person and identify parts of yourself you might want to apply some polish to. But only accept things which people actually say to you. If he's not texted back, he might be bored, he might be busy, his phone's battery might have died. There are a thousand and one rational explanations other than "He doesn't like talking to me." Likewise with the clothes you wore: If you made an effort to make yourself look attractive, then so long as it wasn't disproportionate (see: tangerine-orange tans), there's much more chance of people being impressed than there is them thinking you looked awful or were trying too hard. If you assumed the latter, then the inverse statement would be: "If I dress down, wear dirty clothes and make myself look trashy, guys will find me attractive," which is a clearly ridiculous statement.

Yeah, we just need to find more opportunities to actually see each other in person. These look few and far between. Don't know the next time I'm seeing him before potentially results day, although something *might* crop up. Is there anything wrong with me asking him to the cinema or something? (In a week or two) casually to see how things go? I've always not known the 'rules' about girls asking guys out too. Yeah, the hugging I don't dwell on. I've never hugged him before, until yesterday when he welcomed me to his house. I think that was more a welcome thing for everyone which is fair enough. However, we hugged a lot during the evening. Pretty much whenever we crossed paths we'd stop and have a hug. I'm not sure if he knows, or accepts how I feel. I didn't see him dance with any other girls, or hug people frequently throughout the night other than the greetings. He spent most time just looking around making sure everyone was having a good time/topping up the beers etc.

 

Agree with you, Constrictor, and while it's hard, I try to take a realistic stance, and it's hard to do that when you don't know the facts. So I'm thinking of finding out how he feels asap. If it's a no, that's fine, just move on and stuff, but I don't want the 'what ifs'. It worked out last time, as in, the guy didn't like me that way back, but we're still very good friends and I don't have to panic about 'feeling for him' because I know where we both stand, and it's not the end of the world. I didn't have a crush for a long time until late May which is this new guy, and it feels nice lol. I am buzzing for the outcome, even if its a no, at least I'll know where I stand! And things dont have to be awkward unless I make it awkward myself :) There's no shame in liking someone and them not liking me back, so yeah. Thanks guys

[Ginger_Warrior]

Hugging, especially in our generation, is an extremely common greeting, especially when the relationship between two people is already quite intimate. I'm the type of person that has few, deeper friendships, mostly with females, so when I go back to university this week, the first thing I'll do when I see them is offer a hug. Doesn't necessarily mean I'm looking for sex, though, nor does it mean that they'd be wanting it if I tried, of course.

 

Hugging is a very safe way of breaking the "physical contact" barrier with someone new, although it doesn't provide much of an opportunity to show your intentions. Are you just wanting to be friendly, or you do see something more? Hugging doesn't really help answer that question, unless it's followed by something else. It's therefore not something I'd read into all that much, unless there was something auspiciously sexual about the hugging; where his hands touched you, for example.

 

As far as girls asking guys out... people do have these attitudes about gender roles, probably because we live in a patriarchal society (anyone who denies this latter fact is doing so in blatant and horrible ignorance, in my opinion). The basics are the same for guys and girls. Flirting: Start sooner rather than later, but not too strong up front. Get the other person talking about their interests, try to link them back to you, pay compliments to show interest and so on. If he flirts back, raise the level. It will become very obvious what his answer would be if you asked him on a date. Guys would normally want to choose time and location, so perhaps leave that power with him after asking.

 

It really depends on personal preference though; if you're the type who wants to swept off their feet, that isn't going to happen if you ask. You'll need to wait for him to do it, and just show an interest in the meantime.

[Kaida23]

I don't see anything wrong with a girl asking a guy out. It sounds like you get on well enough, so I'd say go for it. :thumbup:

 

Also, thanks for the reminder that girls go though the same nervousness and self-doubt that guys do when they like someone.

[MuffinMaddy]

Hugging, especially in our generation, is an extremely common greeting, especially when the relationship between two people is already quite intimate. I'm the type of person that has few, deeper friendships, mostly with females, so when I go back to university this week, the first thing I'll do when I see them is offer a hug. Doesn't necessarily mean I'm looking for sex, though, nor does it mean that they'd be wanting it if I tried, of course.

 

Hugging is a very safe way of breaking the "physical contact" barrier with someone new, although it doesn't provide much of an opportunity to show your intentions. Are you just wanting to be friendly, or you do see something more? Hugging doesn't really help answer that question, unless it's followed by something else. It's therefore not something I'd read into all that much, unless there was something auspiciously sexual about the hugging; where his hands touched you, for example.

 

As far as girls asking guys out... people do have these attitudes about gender roles, probably because we live in a patriarchal society (anyone who denies this latter fact is doing so in blatant and horrible ignorance, in my opinion). The basics are the same for guys and girls. Flirting: Start sooner rather than later, but not too strong up front. Get the other person talking about their interests, try to link them back to you, pay compliments to show interest and so on. If he flirts back, raise the level. It will become very obvious what his answer would be if you asked him on a date. Guys would normally want to choose time and location, so perhaps leave that power with him after asking.

 

It really depends on personal preference though; if you're the type who wants to swept off their feet, that isn't going to happen if you ask. You'll need to wait for him to do it, and just show an interest in the meantime.

Okay, I'll update you.

 

Another thing is I kind of wish I had the confidence I have when I'm drunk all the time. It makes me a much more lively, sociable and friendly person and I care less about little things and I don't really over-think. Every time I get drunk, I prefer how I am then to how I am normally. It sounds so bad, but if I had the same confidence all the time, it'd take me a long way. I tend to burst into Spanish randomly as well.

 

My friend brought up a valid point. She said "Do you like him because he's paying some attention to you?"

and it's really made me think about it. In reality, yeah. There are dangers and obvious risks associated with that but first we need to either confirm/deny that the feeling is mutual from his end.