Does RS need a threat system?

[jackal_55]

i've recently spent about a year away from RS, and coming back i've noticed something.

 

RS has stagnated, its in exactly the same place it was when i left, and it doesn't seem to be able to do much about it with current mechanics, reading the current tip.it times brought this to my mind.

 

 

 

so my question is this, should Jagex introduce a threat system, up the hitpoints cap to 200, so that RS can progress to much harder team based content?

 

 

 

consider that the GWD has the hardest bosses in the game, but all the bosses can be killed with 2 to 3 people, multiple times.

 

basically, my belief is that jagex needs to extend the limitations of RS, or its just not going to change.

 

you might consider that the amount of damage a say, level 2000 monster would do, but with a bit of clever use of lunar magic i'm sure it wouldn't be to bad.

 

 

 

the problem is, for this you need someone to tank, and in current Armour which is easily obtained you could just have a full team of tanks, so higher end, like level 95+ defence armour with hefty attack negatives, i think, would actually make it possible to have a proper tank.

 

 

 

for those not familiar with what a threat system is, basically its a way of forcing a monster to focus on a particular player, a tank, so much "squishier" players can go to town on it without having to worry about getting flattened, of course, if that tank dies you're all supposed to be outright screwed.

 

 

 

opinions?

[muggiwhplar]

http://www.tip.it/runescape/?page=corpo ... illing.htm

[jackal_55]

http://www.tip.it/runescape/?page=corporeal_beast_killing.htm

 

 

 

the corporeal beast is one thing, but it still only takes a fairly small team to kill it.

[00hydro]

I agree with your hitpoint cap idea. I have toyed around with the thought of hitpoints going up to a max of 149, but still need 13m exp to reach that. Basically it would take about the same effort to get 99 hits as it would to get 70 hit nowadays, but the hitpoints cape would now be awarded at 149, and those who have it momentarily can will have theirs.

[compfreak847]

Corporal beast is tough. A large team can only get a few kills. I'm not sure how big of a team Jagex could rely on; the tank can only eat so fast and for so long. I'm in favor of raising the HP cap, though.

[jackal_55]

the tank can only eat so fast and for so long.

 

 

 

which is largely my point.

 

before i left, at least, there was a lunar spell that was rarely used, which would heal another person at the cost of your own health, i think its about time RS went from all healing being self-healing, to making i worthwhile for people to act as a healer.

[DUELMASTER30]

so you think runescape should be almost EXACTLY like World of Warcraft? I like Runescape because you constantly don't have to rely on teams, thats why I didn't even finish my one free week of WoW. You should never have to rely on teams, mainly because people can never be reliable. Runescape is unique BECAUSE you can play casually and mainly by yourself, it would just become another boring mmo if it wasn't like that.

[Cheefoo]

Teams shouldn't be a requirement if you're good enough. Once you're high enough level, you can fight any monster solo, except one... The Corporeal Beast. I don't mind having one, if not a few monsters too hard to solo, however I don't want all bosses to be like that. WoW relies a lot on having teams, and relying on random strangers. Runescape doesn't need to be like WoW just because you secretly like it more and you're a spy trying to change Runescape from the inside... Sorry, when it comes to WoW, I jump to negative conclusions, because 99% of the people I know who play it hate Runescape.

 

 

 

I'd love to get into a rant like rage comparing World of Warcraft to Runesccape, but I doubt anyone wants to hear that.

[Giordano]

While I do agree on combat reforms, making it a copy-pasta of Warcraft won't solve it. I think Jagex needs to redo the combat stats; not basing it largely of luck. That way someone will 99 def WILL last longer than someone with 90.

 

 

 

But most importantly, I think that they should increase the HP but don't give out more powerful weapons than the one we have right now. Give more weapon types: like a sword that does more damage to cloth users than leather or a staff that increases damage for fire spells, etc etc. Nothing too fancy but little boosts.

[Obtaurian]

I like that Runescape can be played solo. We have the CB for teams. I'm okay with that.

[smobo]

There is one flaw with just raising the max hp cap, it doesn't do as much as you'd think. Say they raised the cap to 149 as previously said. That only gives you 50 more hp, which is two and a half sharks. If you dedicated 24 inv spaces to sharks, your hp is effectively 579hp at lv 99 . At lv 149 , you have 629 hp, only a small amount more. Whats even worse is that level 60 over there with a hp lv of 50 (idk if you have 50 hp at lv 60, just go with it), has 530 hp with the same set up. Though I am in favor of raising the max hp cap, I think the real problem is the current healing. Sara brews and sweetcorn are the only things in the game that heal based on your hp lv, but imo, there should be more. Foods that heal over 22, if they come out, should have hp lv reqs to eat, or heal based on a percentage of your total hp. All 149 hp is going to do for you is make it easy to safe.

[Eddo89]

High levels always hate luck.

 

 

 

A level 99 defense will last longer than a 90 defense generally. Is like a dice with 3 sides being the same number. If the system do not have any luck in place, a lower level will ALWAYS lose if in the same circumstance, it be too linear. The amount of skill (as in player skill) in RS is limited, there is only so much you can do. If you do make it a more complex system, it will affect all the way from PvP to hitting a cow. RS is simple, keep it that way. There are plenty of work arounds.

 

 

 

It is too reliant on luck on the basis that a duel between 2 players is based too much on much damage you did with your dds special, then the subsequent whip/GS damage. Thats why a lot of people prefer F2P combat, as it is less so about outright KO power.

[Madmanpur3]

Corporal beast is tough. A large team can only get a few kills.

 

Sorry, but this gave me a pretty good laugh.

[Silver_Corner]

There is one flaw with just raising the max hp cap, it doesn't do as much as you'd think. Say they raised the cap to 149 as previously said. That only gives you 50 more hp, which is two and a half sharks. If you dedicated 24 inv spaces to sharks, your hp is effectively 579hp at lv 99 . At lv 149 , you have 629 hp, only a small amount more. Whats even worse is that level 60 over there with a hp lv of 50 (idk if you have 50 hp at lv 60, just go with it), has 530 hp with the same set up. Though I am in favor of raising the max hp cap, I think the real problem is the current healing. Sara brews and sweetcorn are the only things in the game that heal based on your hp lv, but imo, there should be more. Foods that heal over 22, if they come out, should have hp lv reqs to eat, or heal based on a percentage of your total hp. All 149 hp is going to do for you is make it easy to safe.

 

 

 

I agree with this point, and Ill even take it one step further.

 

Raising the HP will not solve anything, as its all about proportions.

 

 

 

A monster hitting 50 on someone with 99 hp is the EXACT same thing as a monster hitting 100 on someone with 198 hp. The only difference is the numbers are larger, but the numbers don't matter. Its the proportion that matters.

 

 

 

If you raise everyone's HP levels, you do 2 things:

 

1) Don't really make bosses "harder" as they still hit in the same proportions.

 

2) Give everyone higher HP so current monsters/bosses are so easy its not even funny.

 

 

 

If you want a harder monster, they need to go about different ways to make it team-killed, rather than just "raise the HP cap". CB was a step in a good direction, but raising the HP cap wont solve anything.

 

 

 

Anyways, RS is unique because it is a 1 player game if you chose it to be. That's what makes it different from WoW and not just another mmorpg out there.

 

 

 

EDIT: The only way to create a true "Threat system" is to design a boss which hits up to 70+, but always attacks the player with the highest hp in the room, allowing the chance for players to get 2hitko'ed without a team, but easily kill-able with a larger team of players, while still providing a risk.

[Soma2035]

Corporal beast is tough. A large team can only get a few kills. I'm not sure how big of a team Jagex could rely on; the tank can only eat so fast and for so long. I'm in favor of raising the HP cap, though.

 

 

 

Yet, myself, Madmanpur3, and Muddybob, a 3-man team with only one person with maxed stats, took down 2 beasts taking a total of about 40 damage both kills, using a method that's known to dozens of monster hunters... :wall:

 

 

 

Yea. I'm sorry but the Corporeal beast isn't so tough. It takes a long time to kill, yes, but that's pretty much it.

 

 

 

I think the right way to go is making armor boost HP. For example, any higher level armor should be split into "tiers":

 

 

 

For Helmets:

 

 

 

Tier 1 (+1): Adamant Med Helm, Fremmenik Helms (Warrior, Berserker, Archer, Farseer)

 

Tier 2 (+3): Adamant Full Helm, Rune Med Helm, Neitiznot Helm, Karils, Ahrims

 

Tier 3 (+5): Rune Full Helm, Torags, Veracs, Guthans, Dharoks

 

Tier 4 (+7): Dragon Med Helm

 

Tier 5 (+10): Dragon Full Helm

 

 

 

No item actually "loses" anything. But less popular helms like the Dragon helms will now have some incentive for use. Also, another interesting addition is that for every 10 points you have, every food heals an extra hitpoint. If you scale the equipment, someone could potentially boost his max HP by ~50 HP. Food could be increased to heal 27 HP. This all comes at the lack of offense or prayer bonuses, however, so it's a choice. Another possible addition would be to make this apply to each bite of a pie / pizza / cake. If each bite of a pizza heals 16 HP, it makes it a more viable food for use as well, even if you have to take 2 bites.

 

 

 

The biggest problem is that Jagex can't make stronger monsters and weapons at this point. A player can only have 115 HP, and even with prime equipment, reduce damage by a maximum of 30%. Another player, barring minigame specific stuff, can already inflict almost 80 damage with a Godsword, about that much with a Dragon Dagger, and over 95 damage with Dharoks. I have personally been taken from 115 HP to 0 HP once on accident at Corporeal Beast when something went horribly wrong.

 

 

 

How much better can you make weapons without making defenses stronger? If weapons keep getting stronger and stronger, the newest ones would have no purpose. Say we have a weapon, a year from now, that hits 200s. So what if the next weapon hits 300s? It's totally and completely unnecessary. So what if the next boss monster hits 120s? The Corporeal Beast can already OHKO with Stomp + Claw.

[Fools_Taco]

I would like to see them make it possible to have one stat at 126. You can pick that stat and max it out if you want. If you want to do hits, do hits, if you want to do fletching, do fletching. It would add some diversification to the characters of runescape and they could have something cool you can do for each skill at 200m.

[Lethargick]

IDK... It kind of sounds like World of Warcraft to me with all this talk of healers and tanks etc. Yeah I agree with the hp level cap raise so all of 126s and 138s can get back to grinding lol, would'nt really effect me =P

[tortilliachp]

I agree that runescape has stagnated, but that's because of the trade limitations. that's what makes it hard to play as a team. However, i don't agree they should be removed, as it would leave the game in a state it couldn't handle. Jagex were right to act when they did (or could have acted a lot earlier).

 

 

 

To develop runescape further, what needs to be added is rather a focus on areas that are currently not in use, and to upgrade these for more visits, than adding new material. Rediscovering old areas could create a game where the expansion of the world isn't jagex' only way of adding new content.

 

 

 

there are massive unused areas. the widlerness could be populated with a LOT more creature, and be dangerous again, removing the use of revenants that are currently too random to be an effective deterring factor. There are huge desert areas that don't offer any content but sand. cities unused because they're impractical.

 

 

 

Think if all new quests, minigame and content was added in current areas (with a possibility for finishing off the borders of the mainland), and then adding only dungeons / purpose in houses, minigames, basically layers on top of existing content. That is how runescape can evolve into a dynamic game again.

 

 

 

There are countless opportunities for making the game harder/ more action packed, where less walking through desolate areas is required, while at the same time adding new content. Graphical updates of smaller areas adding layers of content at the same time, new quests, giving currently useless persons and areas a function would focus the game, and significantly evolve playing capabilities.

 

 

 

If we want a continued evolution in the field of items, the time has come not to up the limits, but to reduce the stats of all items by 20% accross the board. do that with all items, and we have a continued potential for growth. suddenly everything becomes harder again, without having to mess around with levels, and make levels less useful because items can replace thier benefits. remvoing 10% on the stats of all items could be done whenever the current level of being able to kill most monsters in few hits with relative ease, would make for a game that constnatly develops and re-invents itself. For newer players, it would mean slower levels / xp in the start of a "stat cycle" but an improved game over time, where one can always be challanged, even by the same monsters using the same gear over time.

 

 

 

 

 

The way jagex has made the game, they need to re-invent it at this stage. So far things have worked relativly well, but like with the trading rules, things could have been implemented sooner with the same beneficial effect.

[spyderownzyou]

runescape's combat system has always failed to a degree and is all based on luck :roll:

 

As far as I can tell, why fix what isn't broken, runescape is good for it's variety in skills not it's combat system, if you want team based, tougher combat go play W.O.W or a game on a console

 

If you want a simple point and click game with lots of customization and social interactions stick to runescape : I know i am :lol:

[cydoor]

Max HP can't be raised to 149 or 200 without raising the max xp cap.

 

As 200m xp stands for lvl 126, it would be enough if the max hp would be even that.

 

It would give us a bit more resistance but not make us ultimately resistant to anything.

[Will H]

runescape's combat system has always failed to a degree and is all based on luck :roll:

 

As far as I can tell, why fix what isn't broken, runescape is good for it's variety in skills not it's combat system, if you want team based, tougher combat go play W.O.W or a game on a console

 

If you want a simple point and click game with lots of customization and social interactions stick to runescape : I know i am :lol:

 

But the combat system is broken, and just because other aspects of RS are more important in proportion compared to other games, doesn't mean that combat doesn't deserve a revamp. I don't agree with a raise in level caps, getting 99s make the game enough of a grind already and only delays inevitable stagnation again. :|

 

 

 

Totilliachp got it bang on. Make items weaker and the game harder. New functions to old areas, dynamic content, more activity to activity interaction. Weapons made from the same metal should never be more powerful than another in all situations. There should be no 'ultimate weapon', only a lot of really good ones. I would like to be able to break up and customise parts of weapons and armour as well, to adjust their focus. Defence, Strength, Accuracy and Speed should equally affect combat, with no inferior trait (e.g. Defence) and no superior trait (e.g. Strength and Speed) all the time. Luck should only decide the result if both opponents have about the same stats, equipment, tactics and style. Anything other than that, and luck should take almost no part. Better NPC AI is really needed as well, if they can't reach the attacking player, they should either find a way around in a similar way as the player movement algorithm or try to get out of the player's range, again using the same barrier avoiding algorithm.

 

Put the potential for victory back into the player's hands. :) :thumbup:

 

 

 

So many things can be done to make Runescape great again, the potential of this game is so high it's almost silly.

[Dragons_Might]

Max HP can't be raised to 149 or 200 without raising the max xp cap.

 

As 200m xp stands for lvl 126, it would be enough if the max hp would be even that.

 

It would give us a bit more resistance but not make us ultimately resistant to anything.

 

 

 

Who says they have to raise the level to raise your max HP? - easy example.

 

 

 

If they wanted players to have 200 HP, or technically 198 in this situation, they could easily make it so that for every HP level you have, your max HP is raised by 2. (so therefore, In your stats screen it could show you have level 99/99, but in the HP bubble next to your minimap, you have 198) That could technically work as well if they ever wanted to raise the cap without messing up levels. (Sure this might make sense to some or others might think this is completely stupid, but I'm saying if they ever did raise it, this is an idea that could work.)

[spyderownzyou]

Max HP can't be raised to 149 or 200 without raising the max xp cap.

 

As 200m xp stands for lvl 126, it would be enough if the max hp would be even that.

 

It would give us a bit more resistance but not make us ultimately resistant to anything.

 

 

 

Who says they have to raise the level to raise your max HP? - easy example.

 

 

 

If they wanted players to have 200 HP, or technically 198 in this situation, they could easily make it so that for every HP level you have, your max HP is raised by 2. (so therefore, In your stats screen it could show you have level 99/99, but in the HP bubble next to your minimap, you have 198) That could technically work as well if they ever wanted to raise the cap without messing up levels. (Sure this might make sense to some or others might think this is completely stupid, but I'm saying if they ever did raise it, this is an idea that could work.)

 

that in theory could be very useful, and opens up further expansions to combat

 

3 hp per level +

 

it doesn't have to be 1 hitpoint per level :

 

and that allows for more powerful items to be introduced and stronger monsters/better food

[Seraphi]

indeed, i often wonder where jagex will go from here. the only choice they have is to keep rolling out stronger armour and weapons. they're eventually gonna get too overpowered, and all the current bosses will become training fodder.

 

i have no idea how they plan to fix this.

[NukeMarine]

With the spirit shield that actually takes your prayer points as damage instead of you hp, Jagex is showing forward thinking.

 

 

 

Imagine a level 90 armor called Tortoise (or Manta) Armor where the full set has a unique feature: It automatically uses raw tortoise (or manta) from your inventory to counteract damage, every 1 point of healing counteracts 1 point of damage. You don't have to eat.

 

 

 

Now, some would call that armor useless. Others might consider it too powerful. Still, you've effectively given a 90 hitpoint warrior the potential of 500 hitpoints.

 

 

 

Granted, such armor means you can justify having heavier hitting weapons. Maybe a Blood Sword that uses 10 blood and death runes in the special attack for chance of 150 damage.

 

 

 

So yeah, I agree that there's not too much to be gained by lifting the 99 cap. A level 106 takes 26 million xp, while 113 takes 52 million, etc. That's A LOT of effort for little gain. Jagex can compensate by providing unique and diversified weapons and armor and spells.