pureprayer Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 What caused her to snap? Something must've been wrong at home or something... I think it was with a personal relationship of some sort. Pureprayer, you're awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan18 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 It seems as though you missed the whole sentence referring back to "inability to cope well with stress". So looks like that's one thing we can both agree on. By the way did you know anxiety is the "inability to cope well with stress"? (and other facets of course, but that one is a real winner). As Zierro said it comes down to self control. Throwing babies and giving them 1st and 2nd story injuries, resulting in death doesn't happen to just anyone. It happens to people who can't control their feelings. Nobody suggested an exam to "filter out" childcare workers. If you have the inability to cope with stress, don't apply. If she does realize she has poor self control, why would you put yourself in the circumstance where something terrible can happen? That's just stupid really. "I snap easily, so I applied for a job to work with babies and children" :wall: much?? lol The point is she applied for a job that has high stress levels. Even if outside factors contributing to her stress made her "snap" she could have dealt them appropriately such as seeking counselling or time off. If that's too much to ask for, don't work with children. Everyone acts impulsively at times, it IS a bad judge of character and that's exactly why you apologized for it afterward. Should that be the sole judge of your character? No it isn't, as it is a part of the personality that makes you a whole. I don't see anyone here judging her character as a whole at all, I see people judging the part of her that killed an innocent baby. I didn't miss the sentence, my sentence referring to how i thought there wasn't a preexisting psychological condition addressed it - you think theres an "underlying issue", which is an inability to cope with stress, and i think not. Psychiatrically, anxiety isn't the inability to cope with stress; rather, it is often a side effect of anxiety, which is "generally a uncontrollable worry about everyday events". If its a preexisting psychological condition, then she'd probably have generalized anxiety disorder, which, according to how her family and friends described her, she did not have. The above was simply to explain why i don't think she had a preexisting psychological condition. I agree she may have been overwhelmed with stress; i would not go as far as to say she has the inability to cope with stress (which is a personality factor more than a psychological condition), otherwise she would have crashed much, much earlier (say, before she even got the job at the center). But she was stressed. Whats left, then? You and zierro also said "self-control". What is she controlling, then? Self-control usually refers to limits set by the person on something with the intent on controlling. How much they eat, and the ability to stop when they can. How much they watch tv, and their ability to stop when they can. In zierro's case, his tolerance for his cousins. Where does this girl come into play? Her self control involved her, presumably, frustration in the face of mounting stress. Self control itself has limits, though. Eventually, people snap, impulsively acting to reduce stress. In her case, the cause of stress was the baby, who wouldn't shut up. Was she thinking straight? Of course not. Shes frustrated and angry and under a mound of stress, adrenaline and cortisol pumping through her. Thats a lot of stress, and the (evolutionary, i think to how basic it goes) response would be to stop the stress before the mind breaks down (aka nervous breakdown) So then, i have to disagree with your saying that her inability to cope with stress and her self control makes this her fault. Of course, this couldn't have happened to anyone - not everyone is a childcare worker. But everyone has stress, everyone has limits, and few people know their limits and their capabilities because few people ever reach that point. Everyone gets stress, and they get stress in varying amounts. She can't just get therapy because she doesn't know if or when she'll snap - no one does, because, once again, no one knows their limits. I'm stressed as [bleep] right now, should i get therapy? What if i snap? What if the stress passes? Therapy is for people who know their limits are low; i'm sure she'll get therapy now (of course, more for trauma than for stress control) If someone knows they are unable to handle stress, they'll keep that in mind. But normal people w But for all the other normal people who can't control how much stress gets mounded on them (esp in a short period of time, where therapy ), including this girl, theres little we can do. Oh, and i meant she realizes Now that she has poor control, which isn't really what i meant, because i meant she knows her limit now. I don't think she necessarily has poor control (once again, her description doesn't seem like it). And the psych exam reference i made was to the post you made before mine. I hope all of this makes sense, i wrote it over a period of an hour, one chunk of it involved trying to fix my friend's watch with superglue and superglue covering half my thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawn Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I came, I lol'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flodder450 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Maybe she had MS? As said before:Jail isnt the only option 99 Firemaking 30-5-2010 | 99 Fletching 13-7-2014 TET-AU member:6-10-2010 - 21-10-2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I didn't miss the sentence, my sentence referring to how i thought there wasn't a preexisting psychological condition addressed it - you think theres an "underlying issue", which is an inability to cope with stress, and i think not. Psychiatrically, anxiety isn't the inability to cope with stress; rather, it is often a side effect of anxiety, which is "generally a uncontrollable worry about everyday events". If its a preexisting psychological condition, then she'd probably have generalized anxiety disorder, which, according to how her family and friends described her, she did not have. Psychiatrically, anxiety works (although is not defined) like this: First you start neutral for example when sleeping, then something stressful happens and you deal with it okay, then something stressful happens, you start to become a little irritable, then something stressful happens, you start to become a little more talkative than usual, once again when you apply the stress you become a little aggressive, then the tiniest little thing that causes stress will then result in an instant SNAP (but at all times you are aware that things have been bugging you and you have no de-stressed). Then that person feels guilty, can't believe they did what they did, feels remorse, goes from being aggressive and back to being reserved. If it were a preexisting psychological condition her family nor her friends would have known, after all they're not professionals. Generalized anxiety is "shy", "reserved", "can't talk to others easily", "feels uneasy in social situation" etc they're symptoms of different type of anxiety. What I described, is exactly how all anxiety works (minus the added symptoms to distinguish between types). I know quite a few people who suffer from anxiety and I can safely tell you that unless you asked, you wouldn't have a clue. In some cases it can be next to impossible to pick it from the outside. They don't even mention this in most text books (as I'm sure you're aware text book knowledge and application of knowledge is completely different... as an example "insomnia" is a symptom of bi-polar disorder but it does not go in to deeper behavioural knowledge of application that it's actually insomnia for weeks or even months of a time of literally not sleeping at all). It's something you learn on the job and when you get in to clinical practice. It's much more complex than what you're taught or read about. That's why it is diagnosed by psychiatry and not psychology nor counselling. As recapped by someone with over 40 years experience. The above was simply to explain why i don't think she had a preexisting psychological condition. I agree she may have been overwhelmed with stress; i would not go as far as to say she has the inability to cope with stress (which is a personality factor more than a psychological condition), otherwise she would have crashed much, much earlier (say, before she even got the job at the center). Depends which therapeutic stance you choose to use. Many cognitive behavioural therapists would argue that you can break the anxiety cycle by recognizing or unintentionally recognizing the symptoms. A person with anxiety can go through life with very few "snaps" by simple things in life such as meditation, yoga, tai chi and other calming activities. If there was an activity she engaged in outside of the childcare that she found relaxing, it would reset the triggering. For example, perhaps she was at the stage where she was becoming very talkative. Then she went home, engaged in a relaxing activity and so her anxiety was reset back to neutral. I also don't recall saying "she has the inability to cope with stress", if I have I apologize, that isn't what I meant. I do remember saying "If you have the inability to cope with stress, don't apply" but that is talking about people who can't handle stresses in general. I also remember saying she seems to have the "inability to cope well in stressful situations." Which are all very different from what you're saying. But she was stressed. Whats left, then? You and zierro also said "self-control". What is she controlling, then? Self-control usually refers to limits set by the person on something with the intent on controlling. How much they eat, and the ability to stop when they can. How much they watch tv, and their ability to stop when they can. In zierro's case, his tolerance for his cousins. Where does this girl come into play? Her self control involved her, presumably, frustration in the face of mounting stress. Self control itself has limits, though. Eventually, people snap, impulsively acting to reduce stress. In her case, the cause of stress was the baby, who wouldn't shut up. Was she thinking straight? Of course not. Shes frustrated and angry and under a mound of stress, adrenaline and cortisol pumping through her. Thats a lot of stress, and the (evolutionary, i think to how basic it goes) response would be to stop the stress before the mind breaks down (aka nervous breakdown) So then, i have to disagree with your saying that her inability to cope with stress and her self control makes this her fault. Of course, this couldn't have happened to anyone - not everyone is a childcare worker. But everyone has stress, everyone has limits, and few people know their limits and their capabilities because few people ever reach that point. Everyone gets stress, and they get stress in varying amounts. She can't just get therapy because she doesn't know if or when she'll snap - no one does, because, once again, no one knows their limits. I'm stressed as [bleep] right now, should i get therapy? What if i snap? What if the stress passes? Therapy is for people who know their limits are low; i'm sure she'll get therapy now (of course, more for trauma than for stress control) If someone knows they are unable to handle stress, they'll keep that in mind. But normal people w But for all the other normal people who can't control how much stress gets mounded on them (esp in a short period of time, where therapy ), including this girl, theres little we can do. Oh, and i meant she realizes Now that she has poor control, which isn't really what i meant, because i meant she knows her limit now. I don't think she necessarily has poor control (once again, her description doesn't seem like it). And the psych exam reference i made was to the post you made before mine. I hope all of this makes sense, i wrote it over a period of an hour, one chunk of it involved trying to fix my friend's watch with superglue and superglue covering half my thumb. There is always a point before a snap where you realize something is bugging you. If you do not take advantage of that point, ignore the warning bells then you are definitely at fault. People who "snap" know they have problems and should sort them out. Even if they've never snapped before, it doesn't take rocket science to look back in to your history or feelings. It is installed in every person who walks this Earth. I could be wrong about something being pre-existing (I don't think either of us is actually going to know unless we happen to be inside her head) but I still think it is a possibility. And if it is a correct possibility I hope she is trialed fairly. Oh side note - you should try using super glue and touching the bed cover (no not literally but I did it by accident) IT BURRRRRRNNNNNSSSS! :( Anyway this has gone quite tangent and am more than happy to discuss it via PM. I'm glad I finally found someone on here who also has experience and knowledge in the field. I'm sure we could learn a lot from one another. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My_Eggs Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Yuck. Does this really need to be a topic? If you don't like it, don't click on it. Anyways, I think "killing" is too heavy of a statement. The article states she dropped the baby on the ground, which was the cause of death. I doubt killing was her intention. Nevertheless, it's a very serious case and she should be severely punished. Though, I think it's right to modify the term "killing" with a bit more nuance. There have been crazier cases of people being said to have "killed" someone. I recently saw an article about a man who robbed a bank, then ended up crashing his car, so he went into the nearest house. In the house was an old woman (I think the age was like 71 or 81 years old). He told the woman he didn't want to hurt her, and told her to stay in her chair. She got scared and ended up having a heart attack and died. Police charged the man with murder..... 99 HP, Attack, Strength, Defence, Summoning, Ranged, Herblore, Prayer, Agility, Magic, Slayer, Fletching, Fishing, Woodcutting, Mining, and Thieving. Jagex'd out of my untrimmed hp cape on 6/14/2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkbullet3 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I lived in Carpentersville 11 years ago. I don't know this place, though. That's really disgusting, though. I'd like to throw her to the ground and see what her reaction would be. :evil: ^ Blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parcedon Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Anyone who ends inoccent life like that on purpose or by being a [bleep] like i didnt think i hit him\her that hard or i didnt mean to throw him\her that far should get the same treatment in my opionion. to be burned to death in a vat of oil "Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment"Livin in Alaska, the best dang place ever People in OT eat glass when they are bored... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riku3220 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Anyone who ends inoccent life like that on purpose or by being a [bleep] like i didnt think i hit him\her that hard or i didnt mean to throw him\her that far should get the same treatment in my opionion. to be burned to death in a vat of oil So I suppose anybody who has ever killed a fly or a spider deserves to burn to death in a vat of oil huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parcedon Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 so your regarding young children's lives to be equivalent to that of flies? "Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment"Livin in Alaska, the best dang place ever People in OT eat glass when they are bored... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1_man_army Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 so your regarding young children's lives to be equivalent to that of flies? I presume he/she was just referring to the phrase "innocent life". Also, would you please stop using that annoying dark red in your text, it makes you posts irritating and difficult to read. He who learns must suffer, and, even in our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart,and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus (525 BC - 456 BC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patr1ck Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I tell you what, I'm surrounded by young kids in my family and they can get annoying and cause a snap but never a snap that would cause you to hurt someone let alone kill them. Saying that, some other force must have been involved maybe drugs? alchohol? possibly mental problems? All in all this women should be charged to the full extent of the law and hopefully never get to see the real world outside of prison for the rest of her life. People like this make our world hard to live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutters Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 People like this make our world hard to live in. Oh. I thought that was the terrorists, and those who kill others in the streets without any provocation. AKA, the bad people. The ones that mean to do and do do harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patr1ck Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 People like this make our world hard to live in. Oh. I thought that was the terrorists, and those who kill others in the streets without any provocation. AKA, the bad people. The ones that mean to do and do do harm. Not on the sense of me getting killed. What I mean is hearing all these stories of what people do can really take a toll on your emotions and mental state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutters Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 People like this make our world hard to live in. Oh. I thought that was the terrorists, and those who kill others in the streets without any provocation. AKA, the bad people. The ones that mean to do and do do harm. Not on the sense of me getting killed. What I mean is hearing all these stories of what people do can really take a toll on your emotions and mental state. I'm just tired of looking at a majority of the responses and seeing how everyone is calling her a bad person. Everyone eventually breaks down; it just varies how far they will fall from person to person. I'm still willing to bet the amount of damage was accidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Arrrgh stop using the word accidental. It wasn't an accident, it was clouded judgment. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pureprayer Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 She confessed and it was anger. Case and Point Pureprayer, you're awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 That's what clouded judgment is :P An accident is like tripping over and dropping him. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronzewarrior Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 She took abortion to a whole new level... 2nd troll to 840+ post count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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