Why is it that in our society, a pornographic game based on rape is not okay, yet,

 

 

 

- Games revolving around capturing wild animals and making them fight to the death against each other is okay,

 

 

 

- Games where your only purpose is to assassinate a VIP, such as the US President, with an assortment of weapons is okay,

 

 

 

- Games that consist stealing cars and running over innocent civilians is okay,

 

 

 

- Games that allow you to set up a fully automated turret-like cannon in a city square that kills civilians and guards alike, for the sake of "range training", is okay,

 

 

 

- Games where you make money by killing dozens and dozens of wild animals of the same species in a row are okay,

 

 

 

Etc.

 

 

 

I don't think it's a bad thing this game was removed, but it's pretty disturbing that these other games entail committing crimes far worse, and yet none of them are looked down upon...

 

 

 

The game has you rape a 10 year old child.

 

 

 

Why do people keep skipping over this little bit I posted?

 

 

 

Because, in my opinion, mass murder of innocent guards and civilians using an automated cannon that fires heavy steel cannonballs is far worse than the rape of a 10 year old child?

 

 

 

Because, in my opinion, a game where you hunt down important people and slay them to strike terror in entire nations, is also worse than the rape of a 10 year old child?

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I must be in the minority who thinks that Osama Bin Laden's actions were worse than, say, Michael Jackson's. I must be in the minority who would prosecute mass murders more forcefully than a normal child rapist. #-o

 

 

 

It all comes down to the same thing. Games let us do things that are illegal and frowned upon in real life. Some of them are horrible, some of them not quite. Why is it perfectly okay to role play the demon overlord Laharl who would annihilate a planet because he's a sore loser, to roleplay the terrorist organization hunting the president, to role play an insane, emotionless adventurer who would set up a dwarven made cannon in Falador square and murder the guards, but not okay to role play a pedophile?

 

 

 

I'm not saying this in defense of this game, I am curious as to why we find a wide assortment of games that entail far worse crimes acceptable.

Personally we are desensitized to graphic and physical violence while not sexual violence.

 

 

 

Look at Cartoons of the 80's Gi Joe was a billion dollar brand - that sold kid's tanks, planes, and basically, war. Toys are more hardcore now. Look at Movies. Red Dawn was considered "Violent" but is now - nothing, Punisher War Zone and Dark Knight - Dark and gory films in ways, got tons of parents flocking to see them because the characters have household status.

 

 

 

Society thrives on violence, it's evident in Rap - which has been relying om drugs, violence and misogyny.

 

 

 

However from a moral standpoint - It is week when amazon pulls that and leaves a movie like Salo

 

http://www.amazon.com/Salo-120-Days-Sod ... 385&sr=8-1 Online.

 

 

 

I enjoyed Saints Row 1 & 2 - Why violent and immoral - the story was so well done and far fetched you had to know it was fantasy. Asides if you got shot in real life, smoking weed won't restore your health.

 

 

 

I think it comes down to cultural taste - While it may be ok to glorify violence, and it's been glorified since the roman era, Sexual violence such as rape - has never really gotten acceptance outside of japan.

 

 

 

Now while yes the game is a fantasy, I do think you cross a line of morality when you simulate rape on a child in a "game".

 

 

 

While I see your viewpoint, and respect it, I just don't see how you can compare stealing a car in an sandbox enviroment and running over a civilian that the AI is so stupid the civ wont move, to a game that you rape people in any fashion.

 

 

 

I've played saints row 2 through with over 10k civilians dead, and through it with 3. It's all based on how you want to play the game and how you want to play. Personally if the game removed children from the equation, I feel amazon would of looked silly removing the game, because yes, in many ways SR2 is worse. But in some countries a game with "Child rape" is possible child pornography. It's a fine line between decency and ethics.

 

 

 

 

 

I think a fine line of what goes points to GTA3? The Hot Coffee bug, The game was pulled NOT because you could murder, steal and kill people, but because of a bug using a gameshark that let you have sex.

 

Custards last stand - a horrible atari game is still mentioned to this day - because it involves racism and rape

 

 

 

I think it boils down to social decency and where you are from and what boils down to the act of being "heinous".

 

Most movies, tv programs, cartoons, music, plays and forms of media have exposed us to increasingly violent act's (guns, carjackings etc) and the same can not be said for sexual activity.

I think there are serious moral issues that come into play with a videogame that condones raping small children and forcing them to have abortions. It's when you bring sexuality and especially children into the picture that things get way more sensitive and awkward. You will not see anything revolving around killing small children in any popular games today; children are off-limits, period.

 

 

 

Another thing is that "killing" has always been a natural part of videogames, whether it's entailed jumping on your enemies' heads or simply shooting them in the head, it's always been there. So we've obviously become quite desensitized to that whole concept over time. I don't think there's any deep underlying "meaning" to be made from that though, it's just entertainment. I however can't help but think that there's gotta be a somewhat twisted mentality behind the sort of people who find it entertaining to play a rape simulator, which is all about stalking and raping a family - I mean, you can even "make out the glistening tears" in their faces as you attack and rape them. I don't see many popular games that get that disturbingly detailed today.

 

 

 

On a slightly different note I've never seen a country more apologetic towards pedophilia than Japan.

The thing is, does amazon even sell "porn" in the first place? I don't think so, and this was very much so a porn game.

I'm gonna state the obvious and say rape games are bad. I'm gonna state the more obvious and say people who enjoy these games are sick.

 

 

 

And there is a difference between games like this and games like Grand Theft Auto.

 

 

 

Ask yourself this question: How many movies do you see where the plot of the movie involves being involved in gangs, stealing cars, killing people(war and streets), etc. How many of these are good movies? Gone in sixty seconds, saving private ryan, godfather series..etc. No one gripes about these. All of a sudden you make a video game that does the same thing and all the mothers out there have a hissy fit. Video games aren't just for kids anymore. They have ratings just like movies. If you think a video game is too violent, than don't buy it for your kids. Don't ruin it for the rest of us who are old enough and know the difference between right and wrong.

 

 

 

Now ask yourself this: how many movies base themselves around raping woman? None that I can think of. Sure there are movies that may have a rape scene in it, but the whole point of this game is to rape woman and make them have abortions. It's just a sick game.

 

 

 

Comparing games like this and games like grand theft auto is like comparing watching a porno and watching the godfather. Although both involve criminal acts, one is more for sexual pleasure, while the other is more for entertainment.

 

 

 

But thats just my input. I can only control my own life.

Wait wait wait. So much hypocrisy in this subject. I in no way condone what this game is about, nor would I ever play this game, but man you are making very odd statements.

 

 

 

 

 

When the first shooter games came out, and people saw pixels that were blood, people were horrified, and were all 'wtf?!!?!? this is so violent!' The fact is, you are all correct in that over time we have gotten desensitized to violence, there is no doubt about it, but when you start saying 'killing games are morally okay, while a game with rape is not morally okay', there are some questions about our culture. Why is it that the taking of a life is deemed less 'sick and twisted' compared to say 'raping a young girl'? They are pretty both damn wrong and twisted, at least thats what I think. And I'm pretty sure if you compare the sentence a person would receive in court for murder, and the one for pedophilia, you would find them very identical (And if anything, the murderer would get it worse).

 

 

 

This is much like the case where one of the earlier FPS came out, and you had to kill dogs, people were up in arms (not even groups that were animal activists) about killing an animal over killing a human. Should they both be bad?

 

 

 

 

 

As for the statement about the rape game being used for sexual pleasure, while a game where you blow people's heads off is just 'entertainment'. I have news for you all: Violent video games are meant to fulfil our desire for violence. The same goes with sports. Both are nothing more then substitutes for the real deal (war, violence, being aggressive), much like watching porn and some other things are nothing more then substitutes for sex. Anyone that would know anything about psychology would know about the id, the ego, and the super ego. Our id constantly gives us our lust for our two main desires: sex and violence. The ego is the part of our mind that knows we cannot just go crazy and fulfil our lust for sex and violence through any means. The super ego is the moderator between the two, and allows us to fulfil the id, while fulfilling the ego.

 

 

 

TL;DR: Violent video games are just as bad as games about rape. It's our cultural difference, and less need for sexual fulfilment that makes us not need something like that kind of game.

Wait wait wait. So much hypocrisy in this subject. I in no way condone what this game is about, nor would I ever play this game, but man you are making very odd statements.

 

 

 

 

 

When the first shooter games came out, and people saw pixels that were blood, people were horrified, and were all 'wtf?!!?!? this is so violent!' The fact is, you are all correct in that over time we have gotten desensitized to violence, there is no doubt about it, but when you start saying 'killing games are morally okay, while a game with rape is not morally okay', there are some questions about our culture. Why is it that the taking of a life is deemed less 'sick and twisted' compared to say 'raping a young girl'? They are pretty both damn wrong and twisted, at least thats what I think. And I'm pretty sure if you compare the sentence a person would receive in court for murder, and the one for pedophilia, you would find them very identical (And if anything, the murderer would get it worse).

 

 

 

This is much like the case where one of the earlier FPS came out, and you had to kill dogs, people were up in arms (not even groups that were animal activists) about killing an animal over killing a human. Should they both be bad?

 

 

 

 

 

As for the statement about the rape game being used for sexual pleasure, while a game where you blow people's heads off is just 'entertainment'. I have news for you all: Violent video games are meant to fulfil our desire for violence. The same goes with sports. Both are nothing more then substitutes for the real deal (war, violence, being aggressive), much like watching porn and some other things are nothing more then substitutes for sex. Anyone that would know anything about psychology would know about the id, the ego, and the super ego. Our id constantly gives us our lust for our two main desires: sex and violence. The ego is the part of our mind that knows we cannot just go crazy and fulfil our lust for sex and violence through any means. The super ego is the moderator between the two, and allows us to fulfil the id, while fulfilling the ego.

 

 

 

TL;DR: Violent video games are just as bad as games about rape. It's our cultural difference, and less need for sexual fulfilment that makes us not need something like that kind of game.

 

 

 

If I recall, the game where you shot dogs was Postal?

 

 

 

But still, you present valid points. I'd say it's a cultural problem more than anything though.

I guess I could get into this debate a little bit.

 

 

 

 

 

For one, it's obvious why the game was pulled. Most of us have been desensitized to violence being the "norm", and violence is really not a taboo subject in any art form, and it hasn't been for centuries.

 

 

 

With rape, however, it's another story. Really I think that rape is still very much a taboo subject to talk about, just as pedophilia is. It's not to say that rape, nor pedophilia, never gets mentioned (or happens) in popular media. There are many incredible films which have acts of rape in them, but you have to remember that it is done in such a way that rape is cast in a negative light.

 

 

 

 

 

In the case of why violence is more acceptable than rape, well, you can't really look at something in terms of how much harm it does I think. I don't think anyone would argue that rape is more harmful than violence. However when we look at popular media I really don't think it's hypocritical to say that violence is ok, but that this rape game is not.

 

 

 

Let me explain. This "game" casts rape in a very favorable manner. You have no consequences ([bleep] gets pregnant? Have her get an abortion!) and there is no story or reason other than prime instincts.

 

 

 

Now, I'm not sure if I could say that a game built solely on being able to (visually) torture others in a graphic manner would be much better. No doubt that if a "game" which had you do nothing but visually torture others, including children, would probably fall prey to the same kind of ban as said "rape simulator" has. In reality there really is not any game which has a simulator feel when it comes to violence and casts it in a positive light.

 

 

 

GTA4? The cops come after you! Plus, the game does not actually show that much violence. Peoples heads don't blow up, limbs don't fall off, it's very much easy to tell that it is fake. Other games that use violence may use it for the purpose of artistic expression.

 

 

 

This isn't to say that I never want rape in games. In fact, I would be fine with a game where the main protagonist gets raped or, even though it's a huge step culturally, your own character actually gets involved in a raping. (either getting raped or being the rapist). However it all has to be used in the correct context I think, and with such a taboo subject it's a really touchy thing to do correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

But really there is no easy answer to it Lionheart. I don't really view myself as hypocritical in any way (that being said I don't think anyone who plays this game would actually want to go out and rape, but instead I just view them as sad) for agreeing with Amazon's decision. Fact is, there are battles that you should try and fight and should just stay away from, and this is something you just want to stay the hell away from.

Personally we are desensitized to graphic and physical violence while not sexual violence.

 

 

 

Look at Cartoons of the 80's Gi Joe was a billion dollar brand - that sold kid's tanks, planes, and basically, war. Toys are more hardcore now. Look at Movies. Red Dawn was considered "Violent" but is now - nothing, Punisher War Zone and Dark Knight - Dark and gory films in ways, got tons of parents flocking to see them because the characters have household status.

 

 

 

Society thrives on violence, it's evident in Rap - which has been relying om drugs, violence and misogyny.

 

 

 

So... how is this a good thing? Violence is okay, murder is alright, simply because it's so common now?

 

 

 

I enjoyed Saints Row 1 & 2 - Why violent and immoral - the story was so well done and far fetched you had to know it was fantasy. Asides if you got shot in real life, smoking weed won't restore your health.

 

 

 

There's no arguing taste. I loved playing Disgaea, despite the story centralizing on a self-centered, powerful heir to the throne who would sooner blow up a planet than admit defeat. Which he did do. And, seeing as Hentai games have existed for years, I am pretty sure there are people out there who would enjoy games including sexual content.

 

 

 

So it goes back to the question: Is it okay for games to permit you to explore fantasies that are considered immoral in reality? And if so, why the censorship? Why is it that I can role play the demon overlord, others can role play terrorists, but some other person can't role play a pedophile?

 

 

 

I think it comes down to cultural taste - While it may be ok to glorify violence, and it's been glorified since the roman era, Sexual violence such as rape - has never really gotten acceptance outside of japan.

 

 

 

So, because it's been done longer, it's okay right? Because, you know, slavery was considered a basic concept of life for a VERY long time... and there's no way that could've been wrong. How long something has been accepted is really irrelevant. Murder is morally wrong in our society, as is rape, as is pedophilia, as is terrorism.

 

 

 

Now while yes the game is a fantasy, I do think you cross a line of morality when you simulate rape on a child in a "game".

 

 

 

While I see your viewpoint, and respect it, I just don't see how you can compare stealing a car in an sandbox enviroment and running over a civilian that the AI is so stupid the civ wont move, to a game that you rape people in any fashion.

 

 

 

GTA - You're stealing a car in a sandbox environment and running over innocent civilians controlled by a poor AI.

 

 

 

Whatever this game was called - You're running around in a sandbox environment raping innocent civilians controlled by an AI. Not sure if it's poor or not.

 

 

 

I only see two differences there. The crime, and possibly the quality of the AI, although seeing as I would never bother playing it, and neither would anyone else on this thread (I hope), no one's going to find out. Are you trying to imply that if GTA had a better AI for civilians it would then be censored? If not, then it comes back to the question... we detest mass murderers and child rapists alike in our world. Why is it that we allow games to explore one fantasy, but not the other? Particularly when many people would easily vouch for mass murder being a worse crime?

 

 

 

 

 

I've played saints row 2 through with over 10k civilians dead, and through it with 3. It's all based on how you want to play the game and how you want to play. Personally if the game removed children from the equation, I feel amazon would of looked silly removing the game, because yes, in many ways SR2 is worse. But in some countries a game with "Child rape" is possible child pornography. It's a fine line between decency and ethics.

 

 

 

I think a fine line of what goes points to GTA3? The Hot Coffee bug, The game was pulled NOT because you could murder, steal and kill people, but because of a bug using a gameshark that let you have sex.

 

Custards last stand - a horrible atari game is still mentioned to this day - because it involves racism and rape

 

 

 

I think it boils down to social decency and where you are from and what boils down to the act of being "heinous".

 

Most movies, tv programs, cartoons, music, plays and forms of media have exposed us to increasingly violent act's (guns, carjackings etc) and the same can not be said for sexual activity.

 

 

 

And this is the problem I see with our society. It's completely upside down. It's okay to have movies with people getting punched, kicked, shot, dropped off of cliffs, run over, hit by airplanes, hurled into grinders, thrown off a ship, keelhauled, drawn and quartered, etc. But if you show a woman's naked breast... oh dear you've crossed the line.

 

 

 

So why is this line THERE of all places? We have a pretty strict order of how badly we perceive activities. Why is the line in a totally different place when it comes to our media?

 

 

 

The answer? It's been there longer. Which is, as I've pointed out, [developmentally delayed]ed. Just because we've become accustomed to something doesn't make it right. We need to come up with a real answer: is it okay for us, as a society, to accept fictional entertainment that consists of greatly immoral behavior? It's incredibly hypocritical for people to protest Amazon selling this game, when Amazon is also a source of media permeated with violence, mass murder, and terrorism, that we accept without a second thought.

 

 

 

I'm gonna state the obvious and say rape games are bad. I'm gonna state the more obvious and say people who enjoy these games are sick.

 

 

 

And there is a difference between games like this and games like Grand Theft Auto.

 

 

 

Ask yourself this question: How many movies do you see where the plot of the movie involves being involved in gangs, stealing cars, killing people(war and streets), etc. How many of these are good movies? Gone in sixty seconds, saving private ryan, godfather series..etc. No one gripes about these. All of a sudden you make a video game that does the same thing and all the mothers out there have a hissy fit. Video games aren't just for kids anymore. They have ratings just like movies. If you think a video game is too violent, than don't buy it for your kids. Don't ruin it for the rest of us who are old enough and know the difference between right and wrong.

 

 

 

Now ask yourself this: how many movies base themselves around raping woman? None that I can think of. Sure there are movies that may have a rape scene in it, but the whole point of this game is to rape woman and make them have abortions. It's just a sick game.

 

 

 

Comparing games like this and games like grand theft auto is like comparing watching a porno and watching the godfather. Although both involve criminal acts, one is more for sexual pleasure, while the other is more for entertainment.

 

 

 

But thats just my input. I can only control my own life.

 

 

 

Again. Why is it that people who enjoy rape games are sick but people who enjoy murder games and terrorism games aren't? I can't be the only person in the world who finds murder and mass terrorism and assassination far worse than rape.

 

 

 

It comes down to the same problem. Humans have glorified violence forever. Therefore it's acceptable. And that's what I find sickening... we accept it because we've become so accustomed to it. This is wrong.

 

 

 

Things should not be "okay" just because we've had them longer. We should make the decision: do we let people entertain their fantasies, which may or may not be heavily immoral? If so, then we should each make our own decision about what games we do and don't buy, and not make a

 

huge fuss about what games a website is willing to sell. If not, then we should draw the line with respect to how bad the crimes actually are.

 

 

 

*****EDIT*****: A friend has brought it to my attention that my statement,

 

The crime, and possibly the quality of the AI, although seeing as I would never bother playing it, and neither would anyone else on this thread (I hope), no one's going to find out.

 

May seem hypocritical, so I'd like to explain it really quickly.

 

 

 

I think the line should be redrawn of what is overall considered acceptable and unacceptable, particularly in regards to distributors. If we feel it's okay to permit games that essentially exist only to simulate illegal and immoral activity, then fine and dandy, but we should at least be fair in where we draw the line on what's allowed and not allowed, and I find our current "drawing of the line" so to speak as being horribly biased... and not in a good way.

 

 

 

However, this says nothing to personal opinion. As the age old saying goes, "there's no arguing taste." If you personally find these games acceptable or unacceptable, that's your personal choice. But that's different from starting a ruckus on a business's website, demanding a game not be sold. If you do intend to play Rapelay, whatever, that's your choice. I will say you have a crude taste in entertainment, but I'd say that to players of GTA as well.

And this is the problem I see with our society. It's completely upside down. It's okay to have movies with people getting punched, kicked, shot, dropped off of cliffs, run over, hit by airplanes, hurled into grinders, thrown off a ship, keelhauled, drawn and quartered, etc. But if you show a woman's naked breast... oh dear you've crossed the line.

 

 

 

The part at the end pisses me off more than anything else, other than child rape, personally. Cultural standards would make the human body seem to be gross. The human body is a beautiful piece of art, the Greeks actually had statues of naked people and no one was going "omg naked person aah it's horrible".

 

 

 

Times change, but sometimes not for the better.

I should say that nudity and rape are two very different things. I'm perfectly fine with nudity in a medium.

I should say that nudity and rape are two very different things. I'm perfectly fine with nudity in a medium.

 

So you're not ok with rape being simulated in a game, but you're ok with people getting skinned alive being simulated in a game?

 

 

 

It's no secret that the video game industry isn't exactly the role model for society's standards, hell many game creators are terrorists by definition. Everyone understands it's not real, and should not be perceived as real. This is why rape being simulated in a game is perfectly fine by me.

 

 

 

Video games like this are like abortions for real world crimes, you get the experience (to a degree) with no strings attached.

Props to you soma, I never thought I would hit such an intellectual discussion on the video game forum, I am enjoying this

 

 

 

So... how is this a good thing? Violence is okay, murder is alright, simply because it's so common now?

 

 

 

I never stated it was a good thing, While I enjoy violence, I guess I grew up on it, Die Hard, Comic books, contra and GI Joe, the Difference is knowing it's fiction to me. Most Mainstream violence paints a clear picture of good vs evil, you rarely see a bad guy displayed in the mainstream who you grow attached too during a course of a film or game. We are made to dislike them. Making most linear violence ok because they have commited a crime so bad, they need to pay. As far as violence like say final fantasy, the story is fantasy, is tales of caveman killing dinosaur's violent? Is killing a bug in your room violent? Personally to me - No. The difference is - I can separate fantasy from reality, While I may play violent games, None of the aforementioned things like murder, thieving etc have the lasting physcological impact that rape does.

 

 

 

Asides, Violence is not the only issue.

 

People worry about kids playing with guns, and teenagers watching violent videos; we are scared that some sort of culture of violence will take them over. Nobodies worries about kids listening to thousands - literally thousands - of songs about broken hearts and rejection and pain and misery and loss

 

 

 

Too true of words.

 

 

 

 

 

There's no arguing taste. I loved playing Disgaea, despite the story centralizing on a self-centered, powerful heir to the throne who would sooner blow up a planet than admit defeat. Which he did do. And, seeing as Hentai games have existed for years, I am pretty sure there are people out there who would enjoy games including sexual content.

 

 

 

 

Honestly outside of Japan, these games have little to no market, USA is to my knowledge the most second liberal game market, Many of our M games get banned elsewhere, Like manhunt 2 - that we don't even bat an eye over here. Japan has a different culture than we do, and i've been to lots of places where comics/anime goods are sold and NEVER seen a hentai game in person. To say that the market is big, Is like comparing american flag sales elsewhere - I clearly believe outside of japan and similar countries - The market for these games is very very small.

 

 

 

 

So, because it's been done longer, it's okay right? Because, you know, slavery was considered a basic concept of life for a VERY long time... and there's no way that could've been wrong. How long something has been accepted is really irrelevant. Murder is morally wrong in our society, as is rape, as is pedophilia, as is terrorism.

 

I never justified morality for anything. Slavery was wrong, and I am from the South and know both sides of the issue well, no tension exists here right? Not really, If anything slavery has had such a traumatic effect in the south people still demand reparation for it today. You don't really hear of people watching gone in 60 seconds demanding a free car from the movie company because they had one stolen - you do hear of rape victims having psychological issues throughout life.

 

 

 

I only see two differences there. The crime, and possibly the quality of the AI,

 

 

 

Depending on your religion, Things are weighed differently, Supposedly worrying is a sin, but you know, I dont see people ever mention little things like that as bad.

 

 

 

Are you trying to imply that if GTA had a better AI for civilians it would then be censored?

 

 

 

Do I think if the civilians tried to run from car's, screamed and the bodies were mutilated and it was graphic, censoring would be a thought but did you know you will soon be able buy this in a regular mainstream toy isle or at least in FYE/Suncoast etc?

 

http://www.figures.com/sponsors/images2 ... 00x494.jpg

 

 

 

we detest mass murderers and child rapists alike in our world

 

 

 

George Patton, Robert E Lee, Grant, Macnamera, Doolittle, and others are men who killed in mass who are praised as hero's. Do you think the Nuclear bombing of Hiroshima was taken as mass murder to the US? War is hell, I bet the Japanese felt differently though. Do I think Rapists are despised more than murderers? Honestly yes. I know for me - I could find forgiveness easier in someone who shot someone vs someone who took a child's innocence. I guess alot of either people share my beliefs since most local county newspapers (At least in the south), Have a registered sex offender photo gallery every week in the paper. No such directories exist for thieves and murderers.

 

 

 

 

 

I've often heard the arguement the USA was founded on terrorism, after all - did we not terrorize the british goverment?

There's no arguing taste. I loved playing Disgaea, despite the story centralizing on a self-centered, powerful heir to the throne who would sooner blow up a planet than admit defeat. Which he did do. And, seeing as Hentai games have existed for years, I am pretty sure there are people out there who would enjoy games including sexual content.

 

 

 

 

Honestly outside of Japan, these games have little to no market, USA is to my knowledge the most second liberal game market, Many of our M games get banned elsewhere, Like manhunt 2 - that we don't even bat an eye over here. Japan has a different culture than we do, and i've been to lots of places where comics/anime goods are sold and NEVER seen a hentai game in person. To say that the market is big, Is like comparing american flag sales elsewhere - I clearly believe outside of japan and similar countries - The market for these games is very very small.

 

 

 

Actually, the market for these types of games is much bigger than you would think. It's not something you typically hear about, simply because the nature of this brand of gaming tends to coincide with what we in America typically considered "secretive". It's like how you can go through highschool and college campuses without hearing about students with pornographic products that often... but you know plenty of people have them.

 

 

 

The market for this type of product is more of an undercover one, but it's certainly their, judging by discussions of this sort of game on major gaming sites.

 

 

 

So, because it's been done longer, it's okay right? Because, you know, slavery was considered a basic concept of life for a VERY long time... and there's no way that could've been wrong. How long something has been accepted is really irrelevant. Murder is morally wrong in our society, as is rape, as is pedophilia, as is terrorism.

 

I never justified morality for anything. Slavery was wrong, and I am from the South and know both sides of the issue well, no tension exists here right? Not really, If anything slavery has had such a traumatic effect in the south people still demand reparation for it today. You don't really hear of people watching gone in 60 seconds demanding a free car from the movie company because they had one stolen - you do hear of rape victims having psychological issues throughout life.

 

 

 

Yes, but neither do the rape victims attribute these psychological issues to pornographic movies?

 

 

 

I only see two differences there. The crime, and possibly the quality of the AI,

 

 

 

Depending on your religion, Things are weighed differently, Supposedly worrying is a sin, but you know, I dont see people ever mention little things like that as bad.

 

 

 

But isn't freedom of religion one of our core beliefs? We weigh morals differently, true, but hasn't our country been founded on the concept that we would respect each others right to exercise their own moral beliefs, unless it infringes on the rights of others? We don't permit religions that condone human sacrifices, of course, but if we can accept murder and grand theft in simulations judging on our own morals, why doesn't this apply to other distasteful preferences? Also, there's the fact that not one religion I know of glorifies stealing, manslaughter, and escaping the law enforcement.

 

 

 

Are you trying to imply that if GTA had a better AI for civilians it would then be censored?

 

 

 

Do I think if the civilians tried to run from car's, screamed and the bodies were mutilated and it was graphic, censoring would be a thought but did you know you will soon be able buy this in a regular mainstream toy isle or at least in FYE/Suncoast etc?

 

 

 

Graphics and AI are separate issues, really. And I've played games like Diablo before... there's plenty of graphic, violent media in our society as well, with quality varying based on the generation. Anyhow, something tells me that even had this Rapelay game had poor AI and lower quality graphics, it would still have given rise to these protests... especially seeing as it seems to be anime - styled.

 

 

 

we detest mass murderers and child rapists alike in our world

 

 

 

George Patton, Robert E Lee, Grant, Macnamera, Doolittle, and others are men who killed in mass who are praised as hero's. Do you think the Nuclear bombing of Hiroshima was taken as mass murder to the US? War is hell, I bet the Japanese felt differently though. Do I think Rapists are despised more than murderers? Honestly yes. I know for me - I could find forgiveness easier in someone who shot someone vs someone who took a child's innocence. I guess alot of either people share my beliefs since most local county newspapers (At least in the south), Have a registered sex offender photo gallery every week in the paper. No such directories exist for thieves and murderers.

 

 

 

 

 

I've often heard the argument the USA was founded on terrorism, after all - did we not terrorize the british goverment?

 

 

 

First, I think you may have misinterpreted or misquoted someone. The US was founded on a rebellion, yes, but terrorism and revolution or insurgence are two very different concepts. Terrorism generally refers to the use of fear as a method of coercion. Placing a bomb in a building and demanding them surrender a sum of money. Taking hostages and demanding ransom. Destroying valuable property and killing hundreds of a people for the sake of scaring people, for the sake of making them feel unsafe. The American Revolution is really nothing like that. What it was, is a conflict of interest that could not be settled appropriately, and a digression from the subject at hand

 

 

 

Also, war and mass murder are really two completely unrelated subjects. Even the best of men can't always agree, which is what spurs war. But that's different from, say, a school shooting, or the holocaust. Conflict is unavoidable, and unfortunately, in the past, we have been forced to resort to violence, but I'm pretty sure there's a difference between the Civil War, and the Holocaust.

 

 

 

Finally, in regards to Hiroshima, the attack saved more lives than it cost. More Japanese lives, than it cost. It may seem ridiculous, but Japanese suffer greatly from pride. When the United States attacked Hiroshima, the war was already essentially over. However, the Japanese military leaders seemed determined to fight to the death, sacrificing not just soldiers, but their own civilians. The whole "island hopping" episode of the war was literally them refusing to accept a loss, and fighting every inch of the way, failing to acknowledge the continued death of their own people. Whether this justifies the attack or not, is again, a completely different topic.

 

 

 

Anyways, my point is that there's a difference between a serial killer and a war hero. There's a difference between war and genocide. And there's a very big difference between a man who knowingly sells poisoned food nationwide in hopes of turning a profit and a man who leads a group of like minded people into war, to defend his own beliefs. I'm not saying that man is RIGHT, but there is definitely a moral difference in their actions, from any perspective. You can find a general's actions misguided, you can find his beliefs flawed, but there's a major difference between what he does, and what the CEO of Peanut Corp. just recently did.

went to my friend's house to play it :lol:

 

not gonna lie, we had lots of laughs. i'm not saying raping girls is fun, but it was about as enjoyable gameplay as sniping someone in the eye, assassinating people, killing law enforcement and innocent people

 

 

 

it's pretty graphic also

 

he gets arrested for groping the older daughter, gets out of jail and rapes her sister and mom and takes pics of their body covered with semen. uses it as blackmail to get the older daughter to agree and he rapes and and uses all three as sex slaves

 

um yea i'd steer clear of this game for anyone. me and my friends played it together just to see what the fuss was about, it'd be totally creepy is an older man plays it in secrecy.

So you're not ok with rape being simulated in a game, but you're ok with people getting skinned alive being simulated in a game?

 

What the hell kind of videogames are you playing?

[hide=]

I guess I could get into this debate a little bit.

 

 

 

 

 

For one, it's obvious why the game was pulled. Most of us have been desensitized to violence being the "norm", and violence is really not a taboo subject in any art form, and it hasn't been for centuries.

 

 

 

With rape, however, it's another story. Really I think that rape is still very much a taboo subject to talk about, just as pedophilia is. It's not to say that rape, nor pedophilia, never gets mentioned (or happens) in popular media. There are many incredible films which have acts of rape in them, but you have to remember that it is done in such a way that rape is cast in a negative light.

 

 

 

 

 

In the case of why violence is more acceptable than rape, well, you can't really look at something in terms of how much harm it does I think. I don't think anyone would argue that rape is more harmful than violence. However when we look at popular media I really don't think it's hypocritical to say that violence is ok, but that this rape game is not.

 

 

 

Let me explain. This "game" casts rape in a very favorable manner. You have no consequences ([bleep] gets pregnant? Have her get an abortion!) and there is no story or reason other than prime instincts.

 

 

 

Now, I'm not sure if I could say that a game built solely on being able to (visually) torture others in a graphic manner would be much better. No doubt that if a "game" which had you do nothing but visually torture others, including children, would probably fall prey to the same kind of ban as said "rape simulator" has. In reality there really is not any game which has a simulator feel when it comes to violence and casts it in a positive light.

 

 

 

GTA4? The cops come after you! Plus, the game does not actually show that much violence. Peoples heads don't blow up, limbs don't fall off, it's very much easy to tell that it is fake. Other games that use violence may use it for the purpose of artistic expression.

 

 

 

This isn't to say that I never want rape in games. In fact, I would be fine with a game where the main protagonist gets raped or, even though it's a huge step culturally, your own character actually gets involved in a raping. (either getting raped or being the rapist). However it all has to be used in the correct context I think, and with such a taboo subject it's a really touchy thing to do correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

But really there is no easy answer to it Lionheart. I don't really view myself as hypocritical in any way (that being said I don't think anyone who plays this game would actually want to go out and rape, but instead I just view them as sad) for agreeing with Amazon's decision. Fact is, there are battles that you should try and fight and should just stay away from, and this is something you just want to stay the hell away from.

[/hide]

 

 

 

I think you misunderstand me. My main point wasn't about this game being okay because it has rape, but that we are putting violence and death at a lower level then rape. Although I can understand people's large negative feelings toward someone who has raped another, why don't we feel the same about mass murderers (And exclude anything to do with War, because that is different). My whole point was that violent video games (And I don't even count GTA4 as violent) are still there simply to fulfil our lust for violence, much like sports.

 

 

 

The reason I don't see GTA4 as violent (Baring I have never played it) is because if it is like the older games, if you shoot down a regular joe on the street, they never actually die. In other games I have played, ambulance drivers just come by and put them in, or in the originals, just revive them there. And all the time, you always get 'wasted', not killed.

 

 

 

A violent video game is kinda like.... House of the dead, halo (on multiplayer), ect ect. Games or portions of games where there is no other objective but to gain or loose land by means of killing.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't want to play that rape game, but I am just making a point about how it is not okay to rape someone, but it is perfectly fine to murder someone, at least virtually.

So you're not ok with rape being simulated in a game, but you're ok with people getting skinned alive being simulated in a game?

 

What the hell kind of videogames are you playing?

 

I've played the Twisted Metal games, the Silent Hill games, the Metal Gear games....all of which have very disturbing moments in them, especially the cutscenes from Twisted Metal Black and Silent Hill.

 

 

 

[hide=Quote]The fearsome Pyramid Head is one of gaming's most disturbing adversaries. From his immense polygon of a noggin to his penchant for forcible sexual action (and murder), the deformed apron-wearing monster who made his debut in Silent Hill 2 has become somewhat of a mascot for the series. So we were pleased as punch when he made his appearance in Christophe Gans's 2006 flick, which captured a lot of the atmosphere of the games at the expense of narrative coherence. After the air raid sirens blare and the residents of Silent Hill scramble for refuge inside a church, the Pyramid Head comes out to play, materializing out of thin air to rip the skin off of a cultist with his bare hands. The scary thing is, that's like polite conversation to this dude.[/hide]The getting skinned alive that I was talking about took place in the movie (don't think it happened in the game itself), my mistake. But as you can see, that Pyramid Head character is essentially a psychological mind [bleep].

 

 

 

All of the game's I've just mentioned (Metal Gear not really that bad, just has some frightening moments in it) are currently for sale on the Amazon website, and have been since their release.

I should say that nudity and rape are two very different things. I'm perfectly fine with nudity in a medium.

 

So you're not ok with rape being simulated in a game, but you're ok with people getting skinned alive being simulated in a game?

 

 

 

It's no secret that the video game industry isn't exactly the role model for society's standards, hell many game creators are terrorists by definition. Everyone understands it's not real, and should not be perceived as real. This is why rape being simulated in a game is perfectly fine by me.

 

 

 

Video games like this are like abortions for real world crimes, you get the experience (to a degree) with no strings attached.

 

 

 

If anything, a better analogy would be masturbation, or watching porn videos. I'm sure that stealing a car in a game, or assassinating a president in a game, or raping a 10 year old girl in a game, is nothing like actually stealing a car, or assassinating a VIP, or raping a 10 year old girl. ;)

^True.

 

A lot of people really are quite jumpy when it comes to videogame subjects. Admitted, there are people who play a game and then say: "let's do that for real", like when some kids played GTA and then tok their dads gun and started shooting at cars. But those people are in the minority.

 

I think the only factor that should count with games, is if the people who play can get along with it in a healthy way.

^True.

 

A lot of people really are quite jumpy when it comes to videogame subjects. Admitted, there are people who play a game and then say: "let's do that for real", like when some kids played GTA and then tok their dads gun and started shooting at cars. But those people are in the minority.

 

I think the only factor that should count with games, is if the people who play can get along with it in a healthy way.

 

There's an M rating on it for a reason, aka not meant for kids. ;)

Those people who get turned on by hentai need to get checked into asylums imo.

Only the crazy Japanese can come up with this stuff...only the crazy Japanese...

 

 

 

I wanted to say something but...Lionheart totally did it much better I could have. Crazy game...

^True.

 

A lot of people really are quite jumpy when it comes to videogame subjects. Admitted, there are people who play a game and then say: "let's do that for real", like when some kids played GTA and then tok their dads gun and started shooting at cars. But those people are in the minority.

 

I think the only factor that should count with games, is if the people who play can get along with it in a healthy way.

 

There's an M rating on it for a reason, aka not meant for kids. ;)

 

Still doesn't stop parents from buyin them for the kids.

 

<--Owns over 20+ M rated games and not once attempted to murder..

 

 

 

Hey I only said murder.

^True.

 

A lot of people really are quite jumpy when it comes to videogame subjects. Admitted, there are people who play a game and then say: "let's do that for real", like when some kids played GTA and then tok their dads gun and started shooting at cars. But those people are in the minority.

 

I think the only factor that should count with games, is if the people who play can get along with it in a healthy way.

 

There's an M rating on it for a reason, aka not meant for kids. ;)

 

 

 

Actually, my friend (15) walked into a store alone to buy Pineapple Express(R - movie equivalent to M). All the clerk asked was "are you 17?" My friend doesn't look 17+, but said yes, and got the movie.