The Milgram Experiment: What would YOU do?

[Demeige]

How many of you have heard of the Milgram Experiment? To those of you that haven't:

 

(NOTE: The following is a long excerpt from a textbook on Sociology. I Spoiler'd the stuff that you should read beforehand. If it's interesting enough, feel free to read the entire thing although it's not entirely necessary.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it says embedding is disabled by request: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXcwUJ-HMQ0

 

[yt]pXcwUJ-HMQ0[/yt]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If ordered to do so, would you comply with an experimenter's instruction to give people increasingly painful electric shocks? Most people would say no; yet, the research of social psychologist Stanley Milgram suggests that most of us will obey such orders.

 

 

 

They were told that the purpose of the research was to investigate the effects of punishment on learning. The experimenter, dressed in a gray technicians coat, explained that in each testing, one subject would be randomly selected as the learner while another would function as the teacher.

 

 

 

However, this lottery was rigged so that the real subject would always be the teacher while an associate of Milgrams served as the learner.

 

The teacher was taken to an electronic shock generator with 30 lever switches. Each switch was labeled with graduated voltage designations from 15 to 450 volts.

 

 

 

The experimenter instructed the teacher to apply shocks of increasing voltage each time the learner gave an incorrect answer on a memory test. Teachers were told that although the shocks can be extremely painful, they cause no permanent tissue damage. In reality, the learner didn't receive any shocks; however, the teacher believed that the procedure was genuine.

 

 

 

The learner deliberately gave incorrect answers and acted out a prearranged script.

 

At 150 volts: learner would cry out Experimenter, get me out of here! I wont be in the experiment anymore!

 

At 270 volts: the learner would scream in agony.

 

At 350 volts: the learner would fall silent.

 

 

 

If the teacher wanted to stop the experiment, the experimenter would insist that the teacher continue, using such statements as You have no other choice; you must go on.

 

 

 

Psychiatrists had predicted that virtually all subjects would refuse to shock innocent victims. Yet almost two thirds of participants fell into the category of obedient subjects" and shocked the learned up to 450 volts (the MAXIMUM).

 

 

 

 

Why do you think someone would go all the way up to 450 Volts without stopping? Are these people necessarily cruel or heartless? What do you think of the experiment?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[hide=]Obediance to Authority:

 

 

 

 

 

 

If ordered to do so, would you comply with an experimenter's instruction to give people increasingly painful electric shocks? Most people would say no; yet, the research of social psychologist Stanley Milgram suggests that most of us will obey such orders. In Milgram's words "Behavior that is unthinkable in an individual...acting on his own may be executed without hesitationw hen carried out under orders."

 

 

 

 

 

Milgram placed advertisements in New Haven, Connecticut, newspapers to recruit subjects for what was announced as a learning experiment at Yale University. Participants included postal clerks, engineers, high school teachers, and laborers. They were told that the purpose of the research was to investigate the effects of punishment on learning. The experimenter, dressed in a gray technicians coat, explained that in each testing, one subject would be randomly selected as the learner while another would function as the teacher. However, this lottery was rigged so that the real subject would always be the teacher while an associate of Milgrams served as the learner.

 

 

 

 

 

At this point, the learners hand was strapped to an electric apparatus. The teacher was taken to an electronic shock generator with 30 lever switches. Each switch was labeled with graduated voltage designations from 15 to 450 volts. Before beginning the experiment, subjects were given sample shocks of 45 volts to convince them of the authenticity of the experiment.

 

 

 

 

 

The experimenter instructed the teacher to apply shocks of increasing voltage each time the learner gave an incorrect answer on a memory test. Teachers were told that although the shocks can be extremely painful, they cause no permanent tissue damage. In reality, the learner did not receive any shocks; however, subjects in the role of teacher believed that the procedure was genuine.

 

 

 

 

 

The learner deliberately gave incorrect answers and acted out a prearranged script. For example, at 150 volts, the learner would cry out, Experimenter, get me out of here! I wont be in the experiment anymore! At 270 volts, the learner would scream in agony. When the shock reached 350 volts, the learner would fall silent. If the teacher wanted to stop the experiment, the experimenter would insist that the teacher continue, using such statements as The experiment requires that you continue and You have no other choice; you must go on.

 

 

 

 

 

The results of this unusual experiment stunned and dismayed Milgram and other social scientists. A sample of psychiatrists had predicted that virtually all subjects would refuse to shock innocent victims. In their view, only a pathological fringe of less than 2 percent would continue administering shocks up to the maximum level. Yet almost two thirds of participants fell into the category of obedient subjects. As Milgram observed: Despite the fact that many subjects protest to the experimenter, a substantial proportion continue to the last shock on the generator.

 

 

 

 

 

Why did these subjects obey? Why were they willing to inflict seemingly painful shocks on innocent victims who had never done them any harm? There is no evidence that these subjects were unusually sadistic; few seemed to enjoy administering the shocks. Instead, in Milgrams view, the key to obedience was the experimenters social role as a scientist and seeker of knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

Milgram pointed out that in the modern industrial world, we are accustomed to submitting to impersonal authority figures whose status is indicated by a title (professor, lieutenant, doctor) or by a uniform (the technicians coat). The authority is viewed as larger and more important than the individual; consequently, the obedient individual shifts responsibility for his or her behavior to the authority figure.Milgrams subjects frequently stated,If it were up to me, I would not have administered shocks. They saw themselves as merely doing their duty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Milgram launched his experimental study of obedience to better understand the involvement of Germans in the annihilation of six million Jews and millions of other people during World War II. In an interview conducted long after the publication of his study, he suggested that if a system of death camps were set up in the United States of the sort we had seen in Nazi Germany, one would be able to find sufficient personnel for those camps in any medium-sized American town[/hide]

[Skull]

I was talking about this with a friend of mine... 6 months ago maybe?

 

 

 

I wouldn't do it as soon as I knew what the experiment was, or at least I don't think I would. Either that or since I know it's an act, go all the way to 450 without hesitation, just for fun.

[Range_This11]

We did a re-enactment of this in Psychology in High School. Kinda interesting.

[Racheya]

Epic study. We've done all about this in psychology, obedience studies and whatnot.

 

 

 

The people who went all the way aren't sinister or evil (maybe 1 or 2 =/) but rather they're trusting of the experimentor and believe that he obviously knows more than they do so it would be right to simply obey him. There were variations done and they found that if the study was done outside of a University and with a person not wearing a lab coat, less people went all the way to 450.

 

 

 

Some people would have figured it out by the time they got to the higher voltages though. I mean, would you think that an experimentor was really going to harm someone's life? Although you have to consider back then there were no ethical procedures for psychologists and that unlike now where you need informed consent for practically everything.

 

 

 

I laugh though that they expected 0.1% to go to the 450 XDXD I also just laughed at the guy 'in pain'.

[3hitm4g3u]

I would probably go all the way for the lulz.

[Da_Latios]

I wouldn't do it.... Causing pain to anyone by any means does not go well with my conscience.

[Riku3220]

I'd stop at 350. I don't think I could have the death of somebody hanging over me for the rest of my life.

[Dizzle229]

You could go to 1000 volts if you felt like it, it's amps you have to worry about.

 

 

 

Also, I think I have myself a sadistic new game :twisted:

[FlameHawk18]

I wouldn't have the heart to go past even 75. :cry:

[fastortoise]

I would think i'd stop right away, I'm not one to deliberately hurt people even for science experiments.

 

 

 

And, it's not just the voltage or just the amperage that kills you... it's both. Even heard of Power? Volts x Amps.

 

Where did everyone learn the notion that it's amperage that kills you?

[Rollyboy]

The majority of people, though hesitant, will still obey an authority. It also shows people usually associate authority with legitimacy.

 

 

 

Good authority => legitimacy => greater control over people

 

 

 

In the milgram experiment I would question the experiment, but still continue. I would discontinue the experiment at the 'agony' point.

 

 

 

I guess it says that authorities need to be questioned to ensure they are not abusing their legitimacy. Such as if a State sends it's troops to war.

[Zierro]

At 150 volts: learner would cry out Experimenter, get me out of here! I wont be in the experiment anymore!

 

At 270 volts: the learner would scream in agony.

 

At 350 volts: the learner would fall silent.

 

 

 

If these were the circumstances then I would stop. If they just moaned a little then I'd probably continue.

[FlameHawk18]

At 150 volts: learner would cry out Experimenter, get me out of here! I wont be in the experiment anymore!

 

At 270 volts: the learner would scream in agony.

 

At 350 volts: the learner would fall silent.

 

 

 

If these were the circumstances then I would stop. If they just moaned a little then I'd probably continue.

 

 

 

I'd agree with you there. A little "ouch" or something, and I'd continue. Though, when they start screaming, I'd feel really bad for myself, and probably cry my eyes out. :|

[Racheya]

At 150 volts: learner would cry out Experimenter, get me out of here! I wont be in the experiment anymore!

 

At 270 volts: the learner would scream in agony.

 

At 350 volts: the learner would fall silent.

 

 

 

If these were the circumstances then I would stop. If they just moaned a little then I'd probably continue.

 

 

 

I'd agree with you there. A little "ouch" or something, and I'd continue. Though, when they start screaming, I'd feel really bad for myself, and probably cry my eyes out. :|

 

The learner also claimed that he had a heart problem at some point higher up in the voltages.

 

 

 

That might have swayed me. I dunno what I would do though =/ I'd feel bad but I might trust that the experimentor knows better than me. I probably wouldn't go all the way though...

[Nadril]

Everyone is just going to say they wouldn't do it in this thread, but statistically speaking most would.

 

 

 

Anyways it is an interesting experiment. Not sure how I would do.

[Lenin64]

Yea, I'd do it. Interpret that as you will.

[Dizzle229]

Yea, I'd do it. Interpret that as you will.

 

 

 

You would go straight for 450, then complain because they can't scream and die at the same time.

[ember3579]

Yea, I'd do it. Interpret that as you will.

 

 

 

 

 

This.... Doesn't surprise me. At all. I don't think there's any other way to interpret that. :P The above poster has it right too.

 

 

 

I wouldn't even flip the switch. It's just not something that I'd do. Things like that are things that I reserve for special circumstances, such as like what the biological dad went through in Taken. THAT, in my opinion, would tear open anybody's floodgates against sadism in a heartbeat if it happened to them if it would help get their loved one back quicker and safer.

[baalboy5]

This is the kind of stuff that will make you believe that 2+2=5

[ElkNight]

I probably wouldnt go all the way. But I'm not sure how far I would make it up.

[Bloodstain]

It was to show how people listen to authority figures and obedience and stuff, when they had the test giver give the instructions by phone for example people were less likely to go all the way.

 

 

 

People saying they would stop at X volts can't actually know that for sure. I liked the prison study more

[i_love_burritos]

The screams had to be more realistic for me to stop. Also, the test subject must be crying in pain and having a spastic attack on the floor, prefferably foaming at the mouth.

[Zierro]

Hmm I wonder what the results would be if they changed up the learners. For example, have a pretty girl, a child, an elderly person, and a handicapped person fake being shocked and see how the teachers would react.

[Madmanpur3]

The people who would go all the way are [in most cases] the people who follow speed limits and stop signs because "it's the law". ;)

[ElkNight]

The people who would go all the way are [in most cases] the people who follow speed limits and stop signs because "it's the law". ;)

 

You dont follow stop signs?