PvP Artifacts and It's Effect on Runescape Economy

[Sir_Kurity]

Better not make pvp drops worse.

 

 

 

I THREATEN LESS 5 DOLLARS 4 U!

[Dire_Wolf]

I think it's a bit to late to work on it. But i am glad it will be fixed. Just hope the Artifacts are changed not 26King..

 

 

 

Because 26King before was not that profitable and was OK.

[thunderlord]

I think they should get PVP out of the air until they get a solution... this can't go on any longer IMO

[Zaaps1]

Conclusive proof that the 26k trick fix is being worked on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank god.

 

 

 

No the picture is not fake, i couldnt care less if you think that or not, Mod MMG is well known for answering questions in his clan chat, i was just lucky enough to find him on my way to my bloodveld task.

 

 

 

Yes! At least we know that Jagex isn't oblivious to this then.

 

 

 

OFF TOPIC: Are you doing a bloodveld task in guthans?

[Sir_Kurity]

I think they should get PVP out of the air until they get a solution... this can't go on any longer IMO

 

 

 

Pkers will riot (again).

 

 

 

BURN, BURN!!!!

[sadukar123]

I think they should get PVP out of the air until they get a solution... this can't go on any longer IMO

 

 

 

Pkers will riot (again).

 

 

 

BURN, BURN!!!!

 

Could care less.

[Dire_Wolf]

I think they should get PVP out of the air until they get a solution... this can't go on any longer IMO

 

 

 

Pkers will riot (again).

 

 

 

BURN, BURN!!!!

 

Could care less.

 

I agree, take PvP off for now.

[Lep]

Which update is the one that made pkers everywhere get it into their heads that your drop should always be good or be worth a lot or more than what the opponent has? I never really pked in the old wilderness but if I remember correctly, which I do... you only got what they were wearing? I don't get why they don't incorporate this into the new system rather than try and be extremely complicated about it. I don't even understand the new Bounty Hunter (I didn't understand the old one!) so I never do them...

[Soma2035]

I think they should get PVP out of the air until they get a solution... this can't go on any longer IMO

 

 

 

Pkers will riot (again).

 

 

 

BURN, BURN!!!!

 

Could care less.

 

 

 

Could care less? So you actually care about the riots?

 

 

 

Which update is the one that made pkers everywhere get it into their heads that your drop should always be good or be worth a lot or more than what the opponent has? I never really pked in the old wilderness but if I remember correctly, which I do... you only got what they were wearing? I don't get why they don't incorporate this into the new system rather than try and be extremely complicated about it. I don't even understand the new Bounty Hunter (I didn't understand the old one!) so I never do them...

 

 

 

The same update that declared PKers could not expect to get the value of items their opponent lost... it used to be you get what they lose. Now you have the potential to make way more, or way less. It's Jagex's way of keeping the rewards fair, to some degree.

 

 

 

I don't really know what Jagex plans to do at this point. They've dug themselves into a pretty deep hole. Are PKers to be rewarded adequately? If so, then the average value of their loot should, at the minimum, equate the average amount lost by a PKer, keeping in mind that there must be one player death for every player kill. Drop pools don't work, 26kers would dilute the pool with junk items. Random drops don't work, as the whole 26king situation shows. Direct drops don't work unless Jagex accepts some degree of RWT and wealth transfer (difference being whether you're taking real money, or merely giving rs money away).

 

 

 

Also, it's worth noting that Jagex's current PvP system seems to scale drop rates. If you kill two PKers, one wearing Bandos and one wearing Rune, it's fairly likely you'll see a piece of the Rune Armor. Not quite the case with Bandos. Same applies to other high value items. For example, one PKer recently found an interesting strategy meant to surprise and kill D Claw rushers. Even with high EP, and spending plenty of time in a hotzone, after six kills (all of which had fury amulets, which protect over Dragon Claws), he got zero dragon claws. He also didn't get any of the Bandos armor a few were wearing, or the Fury Amulets. This is a further testament to the fundamental requirement and flaw: the value of the drop received must NOT correlate greatly with the amount lost, yet, the value of the drop received must remain within acceptable bounds of the average amount a real PKer loses.

[viralaether]

1003294039 other pures would quit of the drop system was nerfed.

 

you fail to realize this is a good thing

[Lep]

I think it'll be quite pathetic if people actually do complain if they don't get their free 10M per day anymore.

[Punitive_D]

On the other hand, me and like 1003294039 other pures would quit of the drop system was nerfed.

 

 

 

Divide that number by about 1M, and you'll be closer to the truth. "Good riddance," I say.

[Punitive_D]

Which update is the one that made pkers everywhere get it into their heads that your drop should always be good or be worth a lot or more than what the opponent has? I never really pked in the old wilderness but if I remember correctly, which I do... you only got what they were wearing? I don't get why they don't incorporate this into the new system rather than try and be extremely complicated about it. I don't even understand the new Bounty Hunter (I didn't understand the old one!) so I never do them...

 

 

 

This is so beautiful in its simplicity. Seems to me to solve so much. 26k trick would be gone. There would be no inflation because money in would never exceed items out. I must be missing some reason that this needs to be more complicated than this. I've known a lot of true pkers, and they pk for the kill. Real players will not quit if reward is nerfed. The newbs who are tricking now would go back to constantly asking me "Hey, Pun, how u make money?"

[Soma2035]

I've known a lot of true pkers, and they pk for the kill. Real players will not quit if reward is nerfed.

 

 

 

Naive much? There's a reason BH was extremely popular, even when PvP worlds were released. The majority of "true PKers" would still like to see a chance at profit. And to have a chance at profit, the loot must at least be, on average, equal to the average loss of a PKer. This way, mediocre PKers lose money, poor PKers lose a lot of money, but good PKers can profit. If the reward is nerfed, only the very best, AND the very luckiest, will have any chance of making money.

 

 

 

PKers, to my knowledge, do enjoy PKing... but they don't enjoy skilling for hours to make money to pay for their PKing endeavors.

 

 

 

It's also worth noting that many merchant clans are tied to this: people who like PKing, but who don't like earning money for it. So instead they squeeze money out of other places in Runescape...

 

 

 

Call me a cynic, or a pessimist, or whichever you think suits me. I think the system is broken, but I also think there can be no good solution. By the terms Jagex have restricted themselves by, there is no way to make a system that will allow PvP to run anywhere near as well as it used to run without messing up something else, and by damaging PvP, they are prompting other repercussions. Remember the falling prices for typical PKing gear? For common PKing food? For potions?

[Lep]

This idea would work would it not?

 

 

 

You risk 250,000 and the opponent that you killed risks 80,000,000. (250,000 / 80,000,000 = 0.00313) or you could say 313,000.

 

Reverse the situation;

 

You risk 80,000,000 and the opponent that you killed risks 250,000. (80,000,000 / 250,000 = 320) or you could say 320,000.

 

 

 

Those about numbers would basically be the maximum you can receive in those situations. Just add some roulette wheels and make it so the larger the gap of risked wealth between players means better chance of getting a good drop and voila.

[Punitive_D]

. . . The majority of "true PKers" would still like to see a chance at profit. And to have a chance at profit, the loot must at least be, on average, equal to the average loss of a PKer. This way, mediocre PKers lose money, poor PKers lose a lot of money, but good PKers can profit. If the reward is nerfed, only the very best, AND the very luckiest, will have any chance of making money.

 

 

 

. . . I think the system is broken, but I also think there can be no good solution. By the terms Jagex have restricted themselves by, there is no way to make a system that will allow PvP to run anywhere near as well as it used to run without messing up something else, and by damaging PvP, they are prompting other repercussions. . . .

 

 

 

You make some good points. Of course you're right that the sytem is broken -- that is beyond dispute. And of course pkers would like to profit, and it seems right that good pkers should profit. I agree with you also that, ideally, pk losses would approximate pk gains. But I'm not as pessimistic as you that this can't be done. Your earlier post mentioned pooling. Why would it not be possible for Jagex to track pk losses and just tweak the system so that drops (overall) roughly approximate losses? Massive rewards could be reserved for killing your target. This would give true pkers the ability to profit but would cut out tricking. Everyone who kills other than his target gets nerfed drops. What would be wrong with that? Also, I think that Jagex could tweak their drop forumulas to blunt some of the present perverse incentives.

[Soma2035]

. . . The majority of "true PKers" would still like to see a chance at profit. And to have a chance at profit, the loot must at least be, on average, equal to the average loss of a PKer. This way, mediocre PKers lose money, poor PKers lose a lot of money, but good PKers can profit. If the reward is nerfed, only the very best, AND the very luckiest, will have any chance of making money.

 

 

 

. . . I think the system is broken, but I also think there can be no good solution. By the terms Jagex have restricted themselves by, there is no way to make a system that will allow PvP to run anywhere near as well as it used to run without messing up something else, and by damaging PvP, they are prompting other repercussions. . . .

 

 

 

You make some good points. Of course you're right that the sytem is broken -- that is beyond dispute. And of course pkers would like to profit, and it seems right that good pkers should profit. I agree with you also that, ideally, pk losses would approximate pk gains. But I'm not as pessimistic as you that this can't be done. Your earlier post mentioned pooling. Why would it not be possible for Jagex to track pk losses and just tweak the system so that drops (overall) roughly approximate losses? Massive rewards could be reserved for killing your target. This would give true pkers the ability to profit but would cut out tricking. Everyone who kills other than his target gets nerfed drops. What would be wrong with that? Also, I think that Jagex could tweak their drop forumulas to blunt some of the present perverse incentives.

 

 

 

No, it wouldn't cut out tricking.

 

 

 

First problem: targets only apply on BH world. Do you want to drive PvP worlds extinct once more?

 

 

 

Second problem: valuing. Right now, Jagex uses GE values, which is fair to some degree. But what about junk? Do you want to turn PvP into a junk goes in, money comes out system? Even if this is acceptable, this would cause further instability in the market. Let's say 3a crashes. Oops. Well, desperate to get their money back, everyone turns their 3a into something else. Either you're turning this into gp (artifacts) or you're turning this into other items. We've seen both systems and the problems they bring. Oh, and the 3a market will now be a disaster once it recovers.

 

 

 

Finally, if pk losses are approximate pk gains, then good pkers and bad pkers would be rewarded the same: insufficiently, because it won't cover the supplies they use. They will recover what they lose, but not what they use, and they will not profit.

 

 

 

The target system itself is also a disaster. Some people are jerks, that's just the way of it. Also, thanks to our fabulous "clan world", you frequently have massive groups of high level players who are in deep wilderness, hunting other teams. One of my friends experienced this personally, his target was a member of a fairly well known high level clan, on a PKing trip. The rules of that clan strictly forbade the player from accepting a 1v1 fight, OR leaving so that my friend could get a new target. In the end, he was left with a choice of waiting 2 hours for the end of the trip, WITHOUT BANKING, or sacrificing his target and waiting up to an hour for a new target... risking getting another target from the same clan. Also, did you know you could be assigned a target many levels higher than you? If you were PKing with, say, a terrorbird, you would be boosted several levels. Your target would be picked, and THEN your target could feel free to summon his or her own familiar... which could easily be, say, a Pack Yak. Now he's 12 levels higher than you, but he can still attack you anywhere despite having a huge advantage.

 

 

 

The target system is not really a fair tool to balance PvP rewards. It's a waiting game, where you wait 30 to 60 minutes for a target and pray that any of a dozen things does not go wrong.

 

 

 

As far as pooling goes, that's the most popular idea on RSOF. The concept is to add all items lost together and redistribute them among the killers. This is not fair. Why? Because people who 26k with junk like Adamant Arrows P++ dropped by K'ril Tsutsaroth will have a chance at a PKer's Rune and Dragon Boots kill, while the PKer would have a chance at the Adamant Arrows P++. More 26ks... more diluted pool... less drops for real PKers.

 

 

 

Honestly, the term Jagex set, the lack of correlation between a dying person's loss and the killing person's gain, seems to defeat any chance of a system that rewards PKers adequately while preventing abuse.

[la la la]

I am now only semi-active on Runescape because I hate pvp, and its effect on the economy makes me sick.

[gongusan]

I am now only semi-active on Runescape because I hate pvp, and its effect on the economy makes me sick.

 

damn youre cool.

 

i am against wind bolting i only did it myself once or twice, i think ppl should get ep with an actual risk, and drops are ok tbh. with the removal of stuff it balances out imo

[la la la]

I am now only semi-active on Runescape because I hate pvp, and its effect on the economy makes me sick.

 

damn youre cool.

 

i am against wind bolting i only did it myself once or twice, i think ppl should get ep with an actual risk, and drops are ok tbh. with the removal of stuff it balances out imo

 

Get your trolling off this board. Learn to respect people; it helps in life. I didn't post to try to "be cool," I posted because it was my opinion on the topic.

 

 

 

Grow up.

[Zaaps1]

I am now only semi-active on Runescape because I hate pvp, and its effect on the economy makes me sick.

 

damn youre cool.

 

i am against wind bolting i only did it myself once or twice, i think ppl should get ep with an actual risk, and drops are ok tbh. with the removal of stuff it balances out imo

 

 

 

It doesn't balance out.

[n64jive]

This idea would work would it not?

 

 

 

You risk 250,000 and the opponent that you killed risks 80,000,000. (250,000 / 80,000,000 = 0.00313) or you could say 313,000.

 

Reverse the situation;

 

You risk 80,000,000 and the opponent that you killed risks 250,000. (80,000,000 / 250,000 = 320) or you could say 320,000.

 

 

 

Those about numbers would basically be the maximum you can receive in those situations. Just add some roulette wheels and make it so the larger the gap of risked wealth between players means better chance of getting a good drop and voila.

 

 

 

This would not work, as the math doesn't even make sense. A ratio of what you risk compared to what they risk? and then you multiply by an arbitrary base 10? So in the first situation, you multiplied by 10^8(which to why, I'm curious)...so if your opponent risk 80,000,000 with you, you would receive? 10^8? or 100m? I know a way I could manipulate that with a friend.

 

 

 

The second situation is completely [wagon] backwards. This time you multiply by 10^3. So if my opponent risks 1 gp, you would recieve 80,000,000,000?(which is out of range of a signed 32-bit number...so i'd be impressed)...

[brando13a]

How about this?

 

 

 

In PVP the most you can get, is equal to the opponents risked wealth, if you are risking the appropriate wealth.

 

 

 

both players risking 76k, the max either could get is 152k. now this would be broken down into the current drop tables (NOT including the statues) and you get drops equal to 0-76k.

 

 

 

In addition to this, we have EP. EP could be changed so that the player can CHOOSE how much EP they want to drain per kill. this % becomes a variable of the frequency, and value of an EXTRA drop. if you use up all 100% EP, you get are guaranteed a special drop (statue), however, it will have a lower value (guaranteed NOT to be a statuette ie- zaros) . If you set your EP drain rate to 10%, you have 10% chance of getting a special drop (statue), and If you DO get a statue, it has a better chance to be worth more.

 

 

 

How would this work?

 

 

 

Its the same basic principle as now, but less absurd as to how much gold you can magically call forth into existance.

 

You can only make as much as your opponent is willing to risk, and in addition to what they risk, you get a chance of bonus gold drops (statues) in exactly the same way we have now (in that we can get multiple statues in a single drop).

 

 

 

EP could also be given a much faster rate, seeing as you only get a percentile chance of getting a drop, and even at 100% you still are guaranteed a statue drop.

 

 

 

 

 

Now I KNOW nobody will like this idea, simply because its totally fair, and would take away the obscene amounts of money you can make. If there's any loophole in my idea that would allow you to make those obscene amounts ofmoney, I apologize, because you shouldnt be able to.

 

 

 

Pking should have equal risk-reward, and the fact I chose to keep the EP portion of Pking, is simply my generosity, and the fact that you can only get 0-equal of your opponents risked wealth. there has to be a bonus instilled to help you break even, because RWT has to be kept at bay.

 

 

 

Sorry if this is confusing, but I'll try to outline my idea simply:

 

 

 

 

 

PVP

 

- you can gain an amount lesser than or equal to your opponents risked wealth. ( 0- ORW)

 

- EP becomes BP (Bonus Points/drops) the rate at which you recieve BP is increased by a fair amount, including gaining EP from succesful PK's, deaths, and skilling (increased rates as opposed to simply standing, as long as you are risking appropriate wealth)

 

- You cannot gain BP while in combat with another player. (you gain BP from the fight if you win or die anyway, and no fight should be long enough that it can even affect your BP earning- this is to stop air striking/cheating BP)

 

- BP expendature can be set by the player

 

- BP gives a percentile chance to get drops from the statue relic table, but never gives a 100% chance to obtain these drops

 

- the lower your chance of obtaining a BP drop, the higher the value the drop will be. 100% BP usage=90% of a lesser value drop-------- 10% BP usage = 10% chance of a Higher value drop

[sparky1_2007]

i've got to say, dang the 26k trick and the artifacts have much more of a negative effect on the economy than say having barrows/rings/other stuff drop.

 

 

 

because if you think about it, there's idk, maybe 20-25 different artifacts/icons/whatever.

 

 

 

but if you put rings, barrows & whips and all that stuff ontop of pvp armour you have atleast 50+ individual items that have a certain percentage of chance to get.

 

 

 

now, most people before the artifacts were after the legendary DFS's and DFH's because hey, it's a huge ammount of money.

 

 

 

but they were so rare, it would've taken them a month of 26king to get it.

 

 

 

but now with this new artifacts system, it seems that the artifacts are so common that in order to get a zaros statue, you just need about a week's worth of dedication or less to get the statue.

 

 

 

it helped to have the regular items, because if they were in constant supply, they couldn't sell them, so it caused the items prices to drop to more stable levels to match the supply of said item, sure it ruined some clan merches, like most barrows armour and whatever.

 

 

 

but with this, i'm seeing bandos items to prices that they havent been since the start of god wars dungeon.

 

 

 

im sure this was just alot of random collections of thoughts on this new system myself, but i intend to use it to gain wealth for my skilling needs and whatever until they nerf it or something, im not going to sit around and [bleep] about it instead of acctually using it to my advantage like oh so many other runescapers are doing.

 

 

 

eventually if/when they do nerf it, im sure the GP will stay at the same value it is now, and the people that refused to do the 26k trick will still be left behind from the inflation, because all the people that 26k'd got a ton of money and still commanded enough buying power in order to keep the market the way it is right now for a while to come.

[Blutters]

 

it helped to have the regular items, because if they were in constant supply, they couldn't sell them, so it caused the items prices to drop to more stable levels to match the supply of said item, sure it ruined some clan merches, like most barrows armour and whatever.

 

 

This is the only part that isn't true. Special items should be worth getting.

 

Let's take Infinity as a prime example. It is no longer worthwhile to exchange points for most MTA items due to their low prices. And I can say with certainty that if things had gone on as they were, MTA items would have never become like this naturally, because the demand wouldn't have fallen so far under the supply.

 

 

 

As it was before, PvP was providing a much easier outlet of unique items than obtaining the items from their original source, therefore ruining some or most of the play values of many different game contents.