200M in all Skills

[Yoko Kurama]

You liked my other post but it looks like the point went right over your head

 

Well, I am not sure I liked your post for the reason(s) you may have intended. Obviously I interpreted (as any reader does with any text, or in this case post) in ways which you might not have intended, but every reader makes a text his own in some way or another.

[Hedgehog]

 

You liked my other post but it looks like the point went right over your head

 

Well, I am not sure I liked your post for the reason(s) you may have intended. Obviously I interpreted (as any reader does with any text, or in this case post) in ways which you might not have intended, but every reader makes a text his own in some way or another.

 

The idea is that it doesn't matter if everyone cheats. It's still cheating. Cheating doesn't mean taking advantage of something that others aren't able to take advantage of. It means abusing something to get ahead of the competition. You absolutely cannot justify cheating as "using every advantage available". That's what steroid users did and it created the darkest era in professional sports.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

You liked my other post but it looks like the point went right over your head

 

Well, I am not sure I liked your post for the reason(s) you may have intended. Obviously I interpreted (as any reader does with any text, or in this case post) in ways which you might not have intended, but every reader makes a text his own in some way or another.

 

The idea is that it doesn't matter if everyone cheats. It's still cheating. Cheating doesn't mean taking advantage of something that others aren't able to take advantage of. It means abusing something to get ahead of the competition. You absolutely cannot justify cheating as "using every advantage available". That's what steroid users did and it created the darkest era in professional sports.

 

 

My point (and the reason why I liked your original post) was that in a situation where everyone (an exaggeration) or a lot of people are cheating, it is wrong and hypocritical to focus in on one of those people while forgetting about the rest. Selective outrage or enforcement is no justice at all. If you don't like the current way the highscores race works, then don't just pick out one player (Forsberg) in the game and single him out, focus your hate towards the system as a whole, or Jagex for enabling and allowing this.

 

Also, buying spins is not cheating, however distasteful some may find it here to do so.

[guy0ne106]

 

 

 

 

 

With rhino+raf+3% avatar+silverhawk+bxp u can probably get a 4.8m in 30 hours

 

EDIT- as someone who works for the varrock press herald i was able to quickly track down mr forsberg888 using my sources and I can confirm forsberg888 is at barb. Using an alt to hold his avatar lmfa0

 

 

LOL

As if buying spins wasn't enough

"Gain XP at all costs" should be his motto.

 

 

That's the motto of every single top page player, and the motto for most of the high level community. Nothing shocking there. No need to single out Forsberg in particular. He's simply using every resource at his disposal, which is what everyone does. 

 

'Top page players' dish out money like spinberg and dish out more money on alts for exp boosts?

He wouldn't even be the discussion of this thread if he never bought those spins to get him where he is now, who else can I single out?

 

Post some usernames/screenshots like guy0ne has because I don't believe that this is normal or spread out through all top players.

 

 

Didn't ITrolledU just spend 4.5B on bonds for spins during Prismania, the opening of which he streamed live, and through which he was able to get most of the bonus experience needed for 200M Divination or something? Where's your hate for him?

 

This outrage over top players is totally irrelevant. Everyone has different resources which they use to their advantage. Drumgun, by his own admission plays 17+ hours a day, so he has plenty of time. He uses that to his advantage. Is that fair to people who have to balance RS with school, possibly work, and other stuff? Forsberg has plenty of money, so he uses that to his advantage. ITrolledU has a decent bit of time, lots of money made from PVM, so much so that he can afford to buy the fastest and most expensive methods for any skills, and a lot of Twitch followers/his own clan that helped him with KK for slayer and tagging other tasks at times. ITrolledU even made his own clan so that he could always have an avatar for slayer (something which wasn't allowed in his previous clan). Is that fair to people who don't have those resources? Life is not fair.

 

This moral outrage over players is totally phoney. Extreme competition by definition means that people will use every card in their sleeve to get ahead. Forsberg is not some outlier or extreme offender.

 

I dislike itrolledu as much as forsberg888, he's just as bad and mabye even worse. But not even itrolledu used an alt to hold the avatar while he was doing glacors with his familiar which picks things up. He just went to the world that clanmates had it on for 3% lol. Forsberg is too desperate seems he cant handle the grind. and i focus on Forsberg888 because he is rank 2. itrolledu isn't even going to be top 5 or 10 to 200m all. focus on him later

[Hedgehog]

As I said before, you can use whatever word you want for it. I'm going to call it cheating because that's what I think it is.

 

And your point is perfectly valid. I don't think it's fair to single one person out when everyone's doing it. The alternative, though, is to not hold anyone accountable. It's not possible to focus on everyone's misdeeds.

 

It would certainly be a better solution to hold Jagex accountable, but in an environment where we know that their policies are immutable, it becomes the community's responsibility to hold itself responsible. That is, we can beg Jagex to fix the game all we want, but we know that they aren't willing to. The community should instead focus on self-moderation.

 

There are problems with this approach, though. The first, of course, is that it's hard to focus on everyone who cheats because everyone cheats. The other is that we have a tendency to go from holding people accountable for their actions to actively shaming people for cheating without warning. For example, it's one thing to say that you don't regard Forsberg's achievements as valid because he cheat, but it's another to say "LOL As if buying spins wasn't enough 'Gain XP at all costs' should be his motto." One is the expression of a negative opinion, the other is just outright being an [wagon] and that's why posts are so regularly deleted from this thread.

[guy0ne106]

As I said before, you can use whatever word you want for it. I'm going to call it cheating because that's what I think it is.

 

And your point is perfectly valid. I don't think it's fair to single one person out when everyone's doing it. The alternative, though, is to not hold anyone accountable. It's not possible to focus on everyone's misdeeds.

 

It would certainly be a better solution to hold Jagex accountable, but in an environment where we know that their policies are immutable, it becomes the community's responsibility to hold itself responsible. That is, we can beg Jagex to fix the game all we want, but we know that they aren't willing to. The community should instead focus on self-moderation.

 

There are problems with this approach, though. The first, of course, is that it's hard to focus on everyone who cheats because everyone cheats. The other is that we have a tendency to go from holding people accountable for their actions to actively shaming people for cheating without warning. For example, it's one thing to say that you don't regard Forsberg's achievements as valid because he cheat, but it's another to say "LOL As if buying spins wasn't enough 'Gain XP at all costs' should be his motto." One is the expression of a negative opinion, the other is just outright being an [wagon] and that's why posts are so regularly deleted from this thread.

Dw as i watch people get 200m all i will make sure to show my dislike towards each of them besides jake. Geel is next i think. #dice

[Yoko Kurama]

As I said before, you can use whatever word you want for it. I'm going to call it cheating because that's what I think it is.

 

And your point is perfectly valid. I don't think it's fair to single one person out when everyone's doing it. The alternative, though, is to not hold anyone accountable. It's not possible to focus on everyone's misdeeds.

 

It would certainly be a better solution to hold Jagex accountable, but in an environment where we know that their policies are immutable, it becomes the community's responsibility to hold itself responsible. That is, we can beg Jagex to fix the game all we want, but we know that they aren't willing to. The community should instead focus on self-moderation.

 

There are problems with this approach, though. The first, of course, is that it's hard to focus on everyone who cheats because everyone cheats. The other is that we have a tendency to go from holding people accountable for their actions to actively shaming people for cheating without warning. For example, it's one thing to say that you don't regard Forsberg's achievements as valid because he cheat, but it's another to say "LOL As if buying spins wasn't enough 'Gain XP at all costs' should be his motto." One is the expression of a negative opinion, the other is just outright being an [wagon] and that's why posts are so regularly deleted from this thread.

 

Cheating is not a subjective term. It is not up to you or me to decide what constitutes cheating. It's up to Jagex, and their position on this is clear. Just like 'legality' is not what I think it should be, but rather what the state or the courts decide it to be.

 

Jagex is the only person to be held accountable in this scenario. They have ultimate power over RS, and they control the supply (the most important element). We may all want to buy spins, but no one can until Jagex decides to provide that to us. They're the ones who put that system in place. Blame the system, not this or that individual who just happens to be using it to his/her advantage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With rhino+raf+3% avatar+silverhawk+bxp u can probably get a 4.8m in 30 hours

 

EDIT- as someone who works for the varrock press herald i was able to quickly track down mr forsberg888 using my sources and I can confirm forsberg888 is at barb. Using an alt to hold his avatar lmfa0

 

 

LOL

As if buying spins wasn't enough

"Gain XP at all costs" should be his motto.

 

 

That's the motto of every single top page player, and the motto for most of the high level community. Nothing shocking there. No need to single out Forsberg in particular. He's simply using every resource at his disposal, which is what everyone does. 

 

'Top page players' dish out money like spinberg and dish out more money on alts for exp boosts?

He wouldn't even be the discussion of this thread if he never bought those spins to get him where he is now, who else can I single out?

 

Post some usernames/screenshots like guy0ne has because I don't believe that this is normal or spread out through all top players.

 

 

Didn't ITrolledU just spend 4.5B on bonds for spins during Prismania, the opening of which he streamed live, and through which he was able to get most of the bonus experience needed for 200M Divination or something? Where's your hate for him?

 

This outrage over top players is totally irrelevant. Everyone has different resources which they use to their advantage. Drumgun, by his own admission plays 17+ hours a day, so he has plenty of time. He uses that to his advantage. Is that fair to people who have to balance RS with school, possibly work, and other stuff? Forsberg has plenty of money, so he uses that to his advantage. ITrolledU has a decent bit of time, lots of money made from PVM, so much so that he can afford to buy the fastest and most expensive methods for any skills, and a lot of Twitch followers/his own clan that helped him with KK for slayer and tagging other tasks at times. ITrolledU even made his own clan so that he could always have an avatar for slayer (something which wasn't allowed in his previous clan). Is that fair to people who don't have those resources? Life is not fair.

 

This moral outrage over players is totally phoney. Extreme competition by definition means that people will use every card in their sleeve to get ahead. Forsberg is not some outlier or extreme offender.

 

I dislike itrolledu as much as forsberg888, he's just as bad and mabye even worse. But not even itrolledu used an alt to hold the avatar while he was doing glacors with his familiar which picks things up. He just went to the world that clanmates had it on for 3% lol. Forsberg is too desperate seems he cant handle the grind. and i focus on Forsberg888 because he is rank 2. itrolledu isn't even going to be top 5 or 10 to 200m all. focus on him later

 

 

Is that really what this boils down to? That Forsberg is having an alt hold an avatar? That's it? Plenty of clans have alts which hold avatars, especially during this month because of rhinos (no one wants to hold avatars because the rhino gives 10%, as opposed to the avatar's 6%), so a lot of clans are allowing alts in to hold avatars. As long as Forsberg's clan is okay with it, there's nothing wrong with the situation. 

 

What are you going to do? Cook up some moral calculus or checklist where you list all their activities, and give them points, and decide who is worse? Well ITrolledU did X, Y, and Z, but Forsberg did X, Y, Z, and that other thing, so I guess he's worse. It's silly to think like that.

[guy0ne106]

 

As I said before, you can use whatever word you want for it. I'm going to call it cheating because that's what I think it is.

 

And your point is perfectly valid. I don't think it's fair to single one person out when everyone's doing it. The alternative, though, is to not hold anyone accountable. It's not possible to focus on everyone's misdeeds.

 

It would certainly be a better solution to hold Jagex accountable, but in an environment where we know that their policies are immutable, it becomes the community's responsibility to hold itself responsible. That is, we can beg Jagex to fix the game all we want, but we know that they aren't willing to. The community should instead focus on self-moderation.

 

There are problems with this approach, though. The first, of course, is that it's hard to focus on everyone who cheats because everyone cheats. The other is that we have a tendency to go from holding people accountable for their actions to actively shaming people for cheating without warning. For example, it's one thing to say that you don't regard Forsberg's achievements as valid because he cheat, but it's another to say "LOL As if buying spins wasn't enough 'Gain XP at all costs' should be his motto." One is the expression of a negative opinion, the other is just outright being an [wagon] and that's why posts are so regularly deleted from this thread.

 

Cheating is not a subjective term. It is not up to you or me to decide what constitutes cheating. It's up to Jagex, and their position on this is clear. Just like 'legality' is not what I think it should be, but rather what the state or the courts decide it to be.

 

Jagex is the only person to be held accountable in this scenario. They have ultimate power over RS, and they control the supply (the most important element). We may all want to buy spins, but no one can until Jagex decides to provide that to us. They're the ones who put that system in place. Blame the system, not this or that individual who just happens to be using it to his/her advantage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With rhino+raf+3% avatar+silverhawk+bxp u can probably get a 4.8m in 30 hours

 

EDIT- as someone who works for the varrock press herald i was able to quickly track down mr forsberg888 using my sources and I can confirm forsberg888 is at barb. Using an alt to hold his avatar lmfa0

 

 

LOL

As if buying spins wasn't enough

"Gain XP at all costs" should be his motto.

 

 

That's the motto of every single top page player, and the motto for most of the high level community. Nothing shocking there. No need to single out Forsberg in particular. He's simply using every resource at his disposal, which is what everyone does. 

 

'Top page players' dish out money like spinberg and dish out more money on alts for exp boosts?

He wouldn't even be the discussion of this thread if he never bought those spins to get him where he is now, who else can I single out?

 

Post some usernames/screenshots like guy0ne has because I don't believe that this is normal or spread out through all top players.

 

 

Didn't ITrolledU just spend 4.5B on bonds for spins during Prismania, the opening of which he streamed live, and through which he was able to get most of the bonus experience needed for 200M Divination or something? Where's your hate for him?

 

This outrage over top players is totally irrelevant. Everyone has different resources which they use to their advantage. Drumgun, by his own admission plays 17+ hours a day, so he has plenty of time. He uses that to his advantage. Is that fair to people who have to balance RS with school, possibly work, and other stuff? Forsberg has plenty of money, so he uses that to his advantage. ITrolledU has a decent bit of time, lots of money made from PVM, so much so that he can afford to buy the fastest and most expensive methods for any skills, and a lot of Twitch followers/his own clan that helped him with KK for slayer and tagging other tasks at times. ITrolledU even made his own clan so that he could always have an avatar for slayer (something which wasn't allowed in his previous clan). Is that fair to people who don't have those resources? Life is not fair.

 

This moral outrage over players is totally phoney. Extreme competition by definition means that people will use every card in their sleeve to get ahead. Forsberg is not some outlier or extreme offender.

 

I dislike itrolledu as much as forsberg888, he's just as bad and mabye even worse. But not even itrolledu used an alt to hold the avatar while he was doing glacors with his familiar which picks things up. He just went to the world that clanmates had it on for 3% lol. Forsberg is too desperate seems he cant handle the grind. and i focus on Forsberg888 because he is rank 2. itrolledu isn't even going to be top 5 or 10 to 200m all. focus on him later

 

 

Is that really what this boils down to? That Forsberg is having an alt hold an avatar? That's it? Plenty of clans have alts which hold avatars, especially during this month because of rhinos (no one wants to hold avatars because the rhino gives 10%, as opposed to the avatar's 6%), so a lot of clans are allowing alts in to hold avatars. As long as Forsberg's clan is okay with it, there's nothing wrong with the situation. 

 

What are you going to do? Cook up some moral calculus or checklist where you list all their activities, and give them points, and decide who is worse? Well ITrolledU did X, Y, and Z, but Forsberg did X, Y, Z, and that other thing, so I guess he's worse. It's silly to think like that.

 

Have you followed this thread over the past month you would see everything that is wrong with Forsberg if you did, its not all about an extra 3% xp l0l. And  forsberg is worse because of the dice. If forsberg didn't dice then itrolledu would be worse because of his kk slayer.

[Yoko Kurama]

There is no 'worse'. Neither Forsberg or ITrolledU have done anything egregious. They have both simply surveyed the system, and exploited the best legal methods available to get to the top. Which is what you should be doing if you're serious about winning this race. The reason this didn't happen in the past is because we had a decent system where Jagex didn't tolerate this sort of stuff, so players weren't able to do it (for instance, Jagex would have never let someone millions of experience in a skill like slayer effortlessly when most players have to work super hard to get even a small fraction of that in such a prestigious skill - in the past, it would have been instantly nerfed). Well, they changed the system.

 

The players aren't any worse (on the top of the mountain or the bottom) than they were ever, it's only Jagex that has changed.

[Hedgehog]

 

As I said before, you can use whatever word you want for it. I'm going to call it cheating because that's what I think it is.

 

And your point is perfectly valid. I don't think it's fair to single one person out when everyone's doing it. The alternative, though, is to not hold anyone accountable. It's not possible to focus on everyone's misdeeds.

 

It would certainly be a better solution to hold Jagex accountable, but in an environment where we know that their policies are immutable, it becomes the community's responsibility to hold itself responsible. That is, we can beg Jagex to fix the game all we want, but we know that they aren't willing to. The community should instead focus on self-moderation.

 

There are problems with this approach, though. The first, of course, is that it's hard to focus on everyone who cheats because everyone cheats. The other is that we have a tendency to go from holding people accountable for their actions to actively shaming people for cheating without warning. For example, it's one thing to say that you don't regard Forsberg's achievements as valid because he cheat, but it's another to say "LOL As if buying spins wasn't enough 'Gain XP at all costs' should be his motto." One is the expression of a negative opinion, the other is just outright being an [wagon] and that's why posts are so regularly deleted from this thread.

 

Cheating is not a subjective term. It is not up to you or me to decide what constitutes cheating. It's up to Jagex, and their position on this is clear. Just like 'legality' is not what I think it should be, but rather what the state or the courts decide it to be.

 

Jagex is the only person to be held accountable in this scenario. They have ultimate power over RS, and they control the supply (the most important element). We may all want to buy spins, but no one can until Jagex decides to provide that to us. They're the ones who put that system in place. Blame the system, not this or that individual who just happens to be using it to his/her advantage.

 

Here's an important life lesson:

 

It doesn't have to be illegal or unfair to be cheating.

[Yoko Kurama]

Well then perhaps we differ in our definitions. A basic, though not the only definition, of cheating entails breaking or bending the rules to gain unfair advantages, or being dishonest with regards to the rules. That's a definition that I'd accept. In our situation, neither Forsberg nor ITrolledU are breaking any of the rules or bending them - they don't have to, the rules are tailor-made to suit their gameplay. 

[Hedgehog]

 

Your definition is wrong

[muggiwhplar]

Cheating is subjective. However, since it is subjective, the consequences/repercussions of "cheating" are therefore subjective as well (in addition to what constitutes "cheating" in the first place). In other words, as far as Jagex is concerned, they are not cheating. I don't consider them to be cheaters either, however my opinion is irrelevant here :P

[Yoko Kurama]

 

Your definition is wrong

 

Au contraire:

 

 

With special emphasis on the second sentence in the definition.

[muggiwhplar]

 

 

Your definition is wrong

 

Au contraire:

 

 

With special emphasis on the second sentence in the definition.

 

 

Dude the sentence right after that one literally says cheating is subjective lol

[Saradomin_Mage]

Literally the first line of that says "finding an easy way out of an unpleasant situation", I'm pretty sure agility is pretty damn unpleasant lol.

[muggiwhplar]

Literally the first line of that says "finding an easy way out of an unpleasant situation", I'm pretty sure agility is pretty damn unpleasant lol.

 

I think that's the same definition for "smart" :lol:

[Paperbag]

It's not unpleasant -.-

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

 

Your definition is wrong

 

Au contraire:

 

 

With special emphasis on the second sentence in the definition.

 

 

Dude the sentence right after that one literally says cheating is subjective lol

 

 

Wasn't in response to your statement that cheating is subjective, just Hedgehog's statement that my definition is entirely wrong. I'd concede to you that it is subjective (though, IMO, in games it is a bit less so since cheating often becomes synonymous with the rules of the game which are usually clear and not as morally vague as IRL situations).

[W48 Burthorpe Unit]

There is no 'worse'. Neither Forsberg or ITrolledU have done anything egregious. They have both simply surveyed the system, and exploited the best legal methods available to get to the top. Which is what you should be doing if you're serious about winning this race. The reason this didn't happen in the past is because we had a decent system where Jagex didn't tolerate this sort of stuff, so players weren't able to do it (for instance, Jagex would have never let someone millions of experience in a skill like slayer effortlessly when most players have to work super hard to get even a small fraction of that in such a prestigious skill - in the past, it would have been instantly nerfed). Well, they changed the system.

 

The players aren't any worse (on the top of the mountain or the bottom) than they were ever, it's only Jagex that has changed.

So you're telling me that iTrolledU and Spingberg wouldn't be part of the discussion of this thread if Jagex didn't change?!?!

 

If that wasn't obvious enough already, lol.

 

Btw hate posts for iTrolledU go back towards a month or so ago, check them out; the posts weren't only from me and guy.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

There is no 'worse'. Neither Forsberg or ITrolledU have done anything egregious. They have both simply surveyed the system, and exploited the best legal methods available to get to the top. Which is what you should be doing if you're serious about winning this race. The reason this didn't happen in the past is because we had a decent system where Jagex didn't tolerate this sort of stuff, so players weren't able to do it (for instance, Jagex would have never let someone millions of experience in a skill like slayer effortlessly when most players have to work super hard to get even a small fraction of that in such a prestigious skill - in the past, it would have been instantly nerfed). Well, they changed the system.

 

The players aren't any worse (on the top of the mountain or the bottom) than they were ever, it's only Jagex that has changed.

So you're telling me that iTrolledU and Spingberg wouldn't be part of the discussion of this thread if Jagex didn't change?!?!

 

If that wasn't obvious enough already, lol.

 

Btw hate posts for iTrolledU go back towards a month or so ago, check them out; the posts weren't only from me and guy.

 

 

No, I am saying that if it weren't for Jagex, then neither Forsberg, nor ItrolledU, nor anyone else could buy spins.

[Gemeos2]

Please quit trying to understand other people. Psychologist have tried that for decades and keep failing on doing it. The best you can get is to understand yourself.

[J a m e s]

I understand Yoko's point, and I also view buying spins/altscaping along the same lines as Mere does (cheating). 

 

It's really quite ridiculous that Jagex let itrolledu get millions of slay xp/hr @ KK with his clan/stream slaves the way he did. It should have been nerfed RIGHT AWAY.

 

There are so many things wrong with Jagex today tbh it's not even funny. Look at yesterday's release of legacy... Godswords and chaotic maul outdps drygores, polypore/chaotic staff outdps seismics, royal cbow > ascensions. Accidental huge buffs to most PvM bosses to the point where they are barely doable with t90 armor. Such a gloriously broken update. Their incompetence combined with their inability to quickly respond to broken XP methods that EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT makes me so mad.

 

Not to mention their condoning RWT like Yoko said which enables players like Fors to exist.

[Low C]

It's hard to blame the individual's gaining such an advantage rather than blaming Jagex. They obviously want the extra money from micro-transactions and could care less about keeping the game inline, advantage and competitive wise. Obviously the people who can afford to take advantage of the situation are going to otherwise the player in front of them will pull ahead thus making it "unfair" for them. It's a revolving door that rests on Jagex. 

[Kr148]

So Geel will most likely be rank 3 to 200m all skills, that leaves rank 4 to Jdel, Alkan, or Dseance.  I think Jdel is going a bit slow to compete with them but who knows, Alkan and Dseance are about neck and neck atm