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Tip.it Times 18 October 2009


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Cure? Indeed. The current situation is akin to melanoma: Highly resistant to chemotherapy.

 

It's rather disgusting, the level at which people expect things in this game. I'll first start by stating that RuneScape is composed by it's players. Being human, and a society, we apply concepts that are familiar to us. As such, applying realistic concepts to the game is completely normal. This is to rid myself of those useless people who like to throw "it's just a game!!@" at me.

 

That being said, the primary concept to be conveyed here, is simple: You do have to work for things sometimes in life. Untradeable items.. It's close to annoying, the bombardment of complaints whose only purpose is to state that a pre-existing game mechanic has suddenly become "unfair". Of course, with the blatant disarray of the current combat triangle, the new potions would call for problems, indeed. However, completely removing the potions from their most useful setting of gameplay was completely unwarranted by logic. A simply tweaking would have sufficed, yes. Rather than remove the problem, however, they removed everything else, including the training motivation initially created by the update. What makes the matter worse, though, is the reason behind it: complaints. Complaints not that the potions were overpowered, although this argument did arise in minute concentrations, but that it was unfair that players would now be required to train herblore to participate in PvP.

 

You first have to acknowledge the notion that these potions did not significantly bar anyone from participation in pvp. You also have to acknowledge the flagrant hypocrisy presented by such arguments. Godswords, however overpowered, were welcomed with open arms by the pvp community.

 

Backing up a bit for our primary concept, it's universally true that one should have some level of exclusiveness in regards to an ability he/she has developed. PhD's aren't tradeable, so people can stop being so ridiculous. It's impossible to attribute everything to how much money you can drop on it. You can spend as much as you want on an academic degree, however, if you lack the effort to pass the classes, you're simply wasting your time, and money. The same concept applies here. It goes back to the classic scenario: The reclusive man, who has all the money in the world, can buy anything he wants, except for the love of his life, who falls for the virtuous, hard-working man. It's completely analogous to the situation presented here.

 

As for inflation, as much as it'd pain me to say it: The best way to currently combat it, is to simply follow suit. Tagging yourself as anti-communist in a communist country is a sure fire way to get yourself in deep, deep trouble. That being said, simply put, in order to keep up with inflation, at the same time, it's necessary to add to it yourself. Until some "radical new game mechanic" can be released as a permanent fix, however it may muck everything up, it's the only way I can logically put it to you.

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As for inflation, as much as it'd pain me to say it: The best way to currently combat it, is to simply follow suit. Tagging yourself as anti-communist in a communist country is a sure fire way to get yourself in deep, deep trouble. That being said, simply put, in order to keep up with inflation, at the same time, it's necessary to add to it yourself. Until some "radical new game mechanic" can be released as a permanent fix, however it may muck everything up, it's the only way I can logically put it to you.

 

You hit the nail right on the head, but with the wrong hammer...

 

Yes, to keep up with inflation, you're you're now (or soon will be) forced to do some EP farming of your own... And doing this just adds more and more to the inflation problem...

Already what we are seeing is people sellign things at highest price, because 'the items are all bound to go up anyways'... Your suggestion basicly makes the EP farming mainstream...

 

Right now, contrary to my signature, I can only wish that we would live in a communist or even a social RuneScape... What we have right now is Capitalism at its best, which is basicly the worst for its people...

 

In an earlier post (last one on page 5 of this thread) I explained with simple mto understand facts why what we have now is killing the game... All we can do is keep slapping Jagex in the face hoping that this drastic example shakes them out of apathy...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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It does make for an interesting social experiment, however! Assessing capitalism in it's purest form would otherwise be impossible in a functioning economy, so a video game makes for a perfect, malleable medium in which we can study the phenomenon. As you can all tell, for lack of better terms, it fails, and it fails quite hard.

 

As for communism, Marx and Engel made it look good on paper.. We could only wish for a purist communist economy at the moment. And as for the nail, regardless of the hammer I'm using, I'm still driving the nail into the coffin! :lol:

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It does make for an interesting social experiment, however! Assessing capitalism in it's purest form would otherwise be impossible in a functioning economy, so a video game makes for a perfect, malleable medium in which we can study the phenomenon. As you can all tell, for lack of better terms, it fails, and it fails quite hard.

 

As for communism, Marx and Engel made it look good on paper.. We could only wish for a purist communist economy at the moment. And as for the nail, regardless of the hammer I'm using, I'm still driving the nail into the coffin! :lol:

 

Lol. This is not "capitalism in it's purest form." Capitalism in its purest form would reward productive activity (activity that promotes the common good) through voluntary exchange. That's not what we have here.

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Great posts, guys. Chay, we need more new Tip It members like you. I hope you find yourself welcome here, and continue to post such carefully constructed posts.

 

Now:

 

TS, sadly, I think you're correct. New players ARE going to come in and find the slope much too steep for themselves. Currently, it seems that the items that are adjusting "appropriately" with inflation are those that high-leveled players can collect - namely, rare drops. That leaves a new player almost totally without recourse. Sure, raw materials are increasing as well, but not quickly.

 

To most of RS (not you guys!): Merch clans, though I detest them, aren't creating cash from whole cloth. They're just riding the waves, for the most part. They'll only get prices as high as people are willing to pay (with the exception of others in their clan). Do you think pure essence sits where it does (when stable) due to merch clans? No, it sits there because people are willing to pay that much for it.

 

In the end, the rich get richer and the poor stay the same. The thing is, these "trickers" aren't hoarding their cash - they're flooding the market with it. Therefore I don't count them in the "rich".

 

For my solution, I am thinking of buying everything I might ever need from the GE (that I am too lazy to obtain) NOW, and then not participating in the economy anymore. I'm not sure if I have the cash for this - I need too many adamant bars for 99 smithing, and WAY too many dragon bones for 99 prayer. Then again, I could just DIY it.

 

Conversely, I think I might stop working "consumption" skills and start focusing on production again. Either way, I want to be done buying stuff from the GE.

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What I'm primarily building on, is that we have a free market with, essentially, unlimited power to function in whatever means it see's as profitable. This includes "EP farming".

 

I'd also like to see your interpretation of our current market situation, Punitive_D.

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That's correct. What we have here is almost a pure Adam Smith Rational Choice situation, with only minor near-term externalities (to the offender). It's in our best interest to 76k, why would we do otherwise? Classic "free rider" problem. Textbook, even. It's in my best interest to 76k (free ride), but if everyone does it we're screwed.

 

Who'd have ever thought RS would be a place to see such wonderful examples of social theory, eh?

 

Jagex has to channel that rational self-interest into a less destructive course. I'd suggest high-level untradeable items that take lots of work and provide lots of reward, while at the same time removing the ability to "trick". Thus, the rational thing to do is to seek the high-level items that can't be bought.

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Except we saw the massive backlash that occurred in the presence of untradeable high-level items. This is referring to the recent herblore update, which as I stated earlier, was characterized by a high concentration of arguments dealing primarily around the fact that they were, indeed, untradeable. The constant argument against these items would continue to be the fact that, rather than every player having an equal ability to obtain the item's in question, it's now required to train skill X, in order to earn equal participation in all aspects of game play. Which, again, is a universally illogical statement, however, it's become the general mentality amongst the populace.

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Except we saw the massive backlash that occurred in the presence of untradeable high-level items. This is referring to the recent herblore update, which as I stated earlier, was characterized by a high concentration of arguments dealing primarily around the fact that they were, indeed, untradeable. The constant argument against these items would continue to be the fact that, rather than every player having an equal ability to obtain the item's in question, it's now required to train skill X, in order to earn equal participation in all aspects of game play. Which, again, is a universally illogical statement, however, it's become the general mentality amongst the populace.

 

The people that complained are, for the most part, the same ones that trick. [As an aside, my problem with the potions (and I say this with 99 herblore) was that damage output in RS is too high anyways, and mitigation too low. The max hit is already much too high.]

 

Bitter medicine, but Jagex needs to have a stone countenance and give the medicine anyways.

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I have to agree with both articles, although I have to disagree with Stormrage's idea to make both normal and pure essence the same, seeing that, in my opinion as an F2Per, that would make F2P level 1 miners a bit too overpowered, while the ones with a high rc will make less money.

 

I preffer the current setup there, thank you very much :) .

 

Although I have to agree with everything else. I really don't like it when lazy people want things easier...

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When i read that article it made me Angry and disapointed at the same time.. Its just a whole bunch of crying.

 

Dude if you cannont see how much the inflation is helping everyone you're an idiot!! I remember reading in your article something about wanting a mod to skill for the money to make an ags?? Since the economy is going through inflation dont the skillers make more profit than before?

 

I am sick and tired of everyone thinking item prices raising is a bad thing. What about the people who actually put in hours and hours of hard work to achieve those drops that seem simply unatainable to a skiller. I like seeing the price of an armadyl godsword at 100m that is one of the reasons i got 99 ranged.. I like seeing a berserker ring on the floor as a drop now that they are 5m. You just have to face the damn facts you are probably not gonna get an ags from only skilling..

 

How could you expect to enjoy the game if you only are willing to contribute hard work to one aspect of it?

 

Maybe if you would take the time to raise a few of your combat levels over 90 then getting a hilt wouldnt be that much of a problem for you. Right? You seem like just another player who wants to complain about something being too expensive..Heck with all that time and money you spent on 99 fletching. you could have been able to solo your very own ags in no time..

 

Jagex fixing this so-called "INFLATION" problem will just make it harder for people who do the difficult things in the game like spend hours and hours trying to get that coveted armadyl hilt drop, or the ones who have killed 500 tormented demons without a single pair of claws You tell them that that item is too expensive when they get that drop..

 

Why try to take away from other peoples hard work? Skillers dont have to do "ANYTHING" but AFK at sharks, Magic trees, runite rocks Ect.. and then run back and forth to a bank a couple of times. Give me a break!!!

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"Kill anything that moves, Pick up anything that drops." -Really Tho-

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Should we make every skill part of the combat level then? Having a high Fishing level means you can get your own food for use in PvP, having a high Cooking level means you can cook it too. Having a high Smithing level means you can repair your Barrows armour cheaply, meaning you might use it more readily in PvP.

 

No. That would be silly. Fishing does not *directly* relate to how much damage you can dish out or withstand (the fish is tradeable). Nor does Smithing, Cooking, or Agility (although you'd have a slightly better case with agility).

 

Attack, Strength, Defense, Magic, Ranged, Hitpoints, Prayer, and Summoning are all directly related to combat, while Herblore has not been until now (tradeable potions), and the level where it does (untradeable potions) is so ridiculously high that it was stupid of Jagex to ever make them untradeable in my opinion. I do seriously think that they should start adding combat levels once you get Herblore to 84 or above now. And at a pretty insane rate too since it adds like 13 to the max hit of magic.

 

EDIT: But at the same time they should be allowed in PvP. I forgot to mention that.

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giant wall of text that not many people will bother to read...

 

I have seen your argument before on this forum, and I have replied to it too;

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/248378-tip-it-times-18-october-2009/page__view__findpost__p__3925089

 

I am not crying about lost wealth or me being unable to buy certain items... But I refuse to stand by when a game I love has the rug pulled from underneath it...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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What do you mean what do I mean...

 

I explained very clearly why inflation is a bad thing in both my article as well as the reply earlier in this thread I was linking to...

 

Stop spamming and start reading, my mis-informed thread-filler...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




Check us out!
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clanmotif.png
==> No seriously, if you like FREE GP, XP and Dung tokens, as well as Community, Opportunity and above all FUN... <==
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How is the rug being pulled from under it?

 

"So we went for a system that made the prices rise that had fallen when the old wilderness was changed - basically the items that PKers need like the whip or sharks. So we basically chose to reward the PKers with cash but at the same time make them pay more for the items they need. In this way we protected the skillers and their drops."

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"Kill anything that moves, Pick up anything that drops." -Really Tho-

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People were, quite frankly, able to cope with prices just fine long before the advent of 76k "tricking". The fact of the matter is, exploiting game mechanic's to rake in exorbitant amounts of cash is not hard work, nor does it affect anyone else's "hard work". Hard work was a term definitive of RuneScape probably 3-4 years ago. The fast lane, however, is now the primary procession of events, and generally detracts from the luster of the game. We play games to earn a sense of self-accomplishment, not to increase the size of our wallets, or else no one would play RuneScape. Honestly enough, working for that larger wallet out in the real world is much more rewarding.

 

All there is now for RuneScape, is a false sense of purpose, and a misguided sense of accomplishment. This is probably why I barely play anymore.

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1ST OF ALL MY HEARTIEST CONGRATULATION TO Ts_Stormrage FOR YOUR WONDERFULLY APPROPRIATE ARTICLE.

 

u made me so impressed that i had to open an account in tip.it forum to give my opinions.u got the things so correct i have nothing to say against any of your arguments(well i never want to do that in this particular topic anyway)

but i would like to expand your article in some minor ways.

 

1) About the problem of tricking or 26ker/76ker or EP farming.i think there is another side to this horrible problem. this will encourage & help gold farmer variant of RWIT-ers. though other types of RWIT-ers are also going to take (or rather are taking) advantage of this system. let me explain in detail. we all know RWIT is an organized crime primarily controlled by criminals of an Asian economic giant nation. every operating base have many computers where they use unemployed poor of the nation in an effort to run the operation 24x7. So u can easily imagine how well these group can utilize this EP farming.they don't have to kill green drags or cut yew logs or fish sharks.just go to PVP & earn mills.and it's obvious every single GP they earn will go to RWIT. specifically "give us ur pass & we will give u 1/10/100 mil in 1day-1 week whatever may be ur lvl" ads now will be able to do what they mean to do more easily. weird isn't it.however jagex tries to stop RWIT every jagex update makes it sure that RWIT will flourish because of that update.

 

2) i liked all ur solutions except for the summoning one. if you reduce the shard exchange rate to 50% it will affect do it yourselves(DIY) group badly. being a lifelong DIY i can feel that. but overall it won't improve general economy so much that DIY group can be sacrificed.

 

3) but now the real question- will jagex admit they are wrong or will they implement any change? i don't see any sign of the in the horizon.let's see the matter from the point of view to jagex. even before 10th dec 2007 jagex was a populist company.yes it took a drastic step that day but then jagex was on the point of bankruptcy then. it was "do or die situation" for them so they had to do what they did then.

but the outburst & player feedback during that time shell-shocked this populist company.we all know ppl fall back to their strengths during hard times,jagex was no exception too. it became horribly populist since then. if u have a round peg all holes looks round. same thing happened to jagex. it now tries to solve every problem by being more & more populist. and this new jagex became pro pker by this reason. they decided 10th dec 2007 caused such problem because it affected pkers so they are now doing everything to keep that community pleased. "new pots are hurting some pkers remove it.pkers may get less money from pking,oh no..we must please them, add some junks which can be sold for HUGE money" i can go on for ever.every groundbreaking decision jagex recently took got vandalized in their own hand due to their decision of bribing pker community to their side. so jagex won't do anything about this inflation. unless it grows much worse,which i'm happy to say is a real possibility if this state goes on for next 6 months.

 

hope someday jagex will gather enough backbone to take unpleasing decisions which are good for rs firmly & on that note i end my lengthy reply.hope you are not bored by it.

Edited by SOLOWaLk
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CFL bulbs are bad bad bad bad bad! LED is ok but CFL has a highly toxic / dangerous chemical called Mercucry in them... you break that bulb and your gonna have problems...

 

LED doesnt ahve that problem, uses LESS energy than CFL and regular, and last way way longer than CFL and is brighter than CFL and regular.

 

the bad thing bout led is that they are not cheap...

 

good read for articles though

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Sadly, it's true.

 

I remember when the santa outfit items were merely a rumor, and yet that rumor caused the santa hat to sky-rocket, peaking just over 34m.

 

The RuneScape economy is surely flawed.

 

Newton's 3rd Law states "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

 

 

Action: Restricting free trade

 

Reaction:

 

1. Increased use of 3rd party software, bots and macros alike; making GP easier to obtain

 

a. 'Gold farming' began, as people used their bots/macros to produce GP for other players; making themselves a hefty profit

 

Atleast with the original form of RWT, the sellers earned their GP, now it's simply a matter of turning on a program and making millions.

b. Black market sites began to grow, and their influence on the economy increased; account sales, GP sales, abuse of the lending system, etc

2. Manipulation

 

a. Pre-restricted-trade merchants atleast had some dignity. They may not have been world class 'Rune-Citizens', but everyone had an equal chance.

 

Eg. A merchant is selling a whip for 1.6m, an interested buyer only has 1.5m, and they come to an agreement on the trade.

 

Not anymore.

 

What they're selling for, is what you're buying for.

A new study shows that 98% of teenagers listen to emo music. The other 2% have stayed straight gangster. If your apparantly the 0% who still listens to rock, put this in your signature.

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Wow, great articles! I especially agree with the first one; I should be able to skill for cash and be able to afford certain items. I don't want to be forced to sit around for 2+ hours and then kill some random guy for cash. Which takes no skill at all. I pretty much refuse to do it anyway :P

 

CFL bulbs are bad bad bad bad bad! LED is ok but CFL has a highly toxic / dangerous chemical called Mercucry in them... you break that bulb and your gonna have problems...

 

LED doesnt ahve that problem, uses LESS energy than CFL and regular, and last way way longer than CFL and is brighter than CFL and regular.

 

the bad thing bout led is that they are not cheap...

 

good read for articles though

 

CFL sound bad, but how much mercury does one actually contain? Mercury isn't that dangerous in small amounts, but if it is medium/large amounts then you will have a very serious health risk.

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Plus people aren't considering the mercury produced by the power station because of the extra energy needed to power a traditional bulb ;)

 

I share the love for LED bulbs tho. Got some in my living room that change colour with a remote :D

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Mercifull <3 Suzi

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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Plus people aren't considering the mercury produced by the power station because of the extra energy needed to power a traditional bulb ;)

 

I share the love for LED bulbs tho. Got some in my living room that change colour with a remote :D

 

Wow I'd kill for ones that change colour :P I got them all through my house. I have about 12 total :) all for the environment.

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