Tip.it Times 18 October 2009

[mara_planter]

WOW, what a wonderful pair of Times articles, and what a great thread following them up. They have clearly gotten a lot of people thinking not just about the definition of the problems, but about possible solutions. I only have a limited amount of time to play RS each day, but it's worth it to give it up to participate in this discussion.

 

I am not sure the proper way to measure inflation is how much GP something costs. It's more how much time a player spends to get whatever advantage one attains. In the case of magic, not only the cost of the runes, but the time one spends getting the XP needed to be able to cast the spell, figure into the cost.

 

I don't do PvP, and don't consider myself a skilled combat player, but I think part of the problem with the herblore update is that 1) there is a lack of intermediate steps in skill leading up to an exceedingly powerful advantage (it's all or nothing because unlike the lower level potions it's not tradeable) and 2) a lack of similar combat advantages gained by training in other skills. There should be pathways to supremacy with small boosts all along the way, and there should be multiple pathways to supremacy. The combat triangle is an example of the latter, and players enjoy figuring out the trade-offs of various paths. It certainly is true in skilling, as I am (for example) called upon to decide whether putting my time into agility or summoning will best support a drive to raise runecrafting. Less obvious ways to counter the advantage of a high herblore level may be discovered as time passes, which could eliminate the feelings of low-level herblorists being put at a severe disadvantage by this update.

 

I think a better solution than taking the use of the new high-level potions away on all PvP worlds would be to, whenever a new object or skill confers a large PvP advantage, make it only useful on some PvP worlds for a period of time. Those who have the new advantage, or who are willing to play at a possible disadvantage, can use those worlds. The others can play on the PvP worlds where its use is not yet permitted. After a period of, say, 4 weeks, the advantage can be permitted on all PvP worlds. This division into tiers is already used in Pest Control.

 

I agree with TS_Stormrage posts that the advancement curve is becoming too steep for mid-level players. The play value of the game depends on a balance of effort and reward. Too hard and players get frustrated, too easy and they have no sense of challenge or accomplishment. I've been playing about 4 years (my how time flies!), and I wouldn't look forward to levelling up a new character in today's environment.

 

I have said in posts to the RS official forums that Jagex is not paying enough attention to game balance issues. As the game gets more complex, it does get more difficult to foresee some of the subtle impacts of a change. But many of the updates have had immediate and obvious impacts that make the game less fun. Too many of their updates have reduced the value of rewards gained from difficult quests. In a former life (i.e. before kids), I was a computer programmer, and I understand all too well the mindset of an engineer. The ability to see an event from multiple points of view is not a common trait among engineers. Jagex needs to hire people with that trait, as well as good engineers, to keep their game balanced. Asking a select group of players to perform that function is too susceptible to conflicts of interest.

 

~Mara

[swampjedi]

I was a computer programmer, and I understand all too well the mindset of an engineer. The ability to see an event from multiple points of view is not a common trait among engineers. Jagex needs to hire people with that trait, as well as good engineers, to keep their game balanced. Asking a select group of players to perform that function is too susceptible to conflicts of interest.

 

Slightly off topic, but the rest of you need to understand how true this is (speaking as a current software engineer). We get so bogged down in the details that it becomes hard to see the big picture. From the development diaries, it sounds as if the people responsible for coding the update are the same as those conceptualizing the update. Bad move on Jagex's part, IMO, but that's how it is.

 

Mara, I hope to see YOU post more, too! :-D

[Dirkmetal]

Plus people aren't considering the mercury produced by the power station because of the extra energy needed to power a traditional bulb ;)

 

I share the love for LED bulbs tho. Got some in my living room that change colour with a remote :D

 

CFL bulbs are made in China, were there is little regulation on health so many workers will be exposed to harmful amounts of mercury.

 

LEDs are the way to go.

[i_love_burritos]

You know, I did edit the article that all you guys like. [storm's one]

 

Why dont editors ever get any KUDOS ?

[Racheya]

You know, I did edit the article that all you guys like. [storm's one]

 

Why dont editors ever get any KUDOS ?

Because people don't know who the editors are. You're the unsung heroes of the Editorial Panel :P

[Mdeoxys]

*gives Adrenal a bit of Storm's credit*

There you go my friend, you did well :)

[KingDodongo]

I hated the first article, but Racheya's was good.

 

To be honest, the economy topic has been done to death. I don't want to hear about it anymore.

Care to explain why you didn't like it?

 

I did. It seems that all the past few articles have been about the economy. I know that it's bad (or good, depends on the viewpoint), but do we really need more than one or two articles on it? I would like to see a different subject discussed, even if it's back to efficiency. To be honest, I'm growing a little tired of it.

[Draconic]

CFL bulbs are bad bad bad bad bad! LED is ok but CFL has a highly toxic / dangerous chemical called Mercucry in them... you break that bulb and your gonna have problems...

 

LED doesnt ahve that problem, uses LESS energy than CFL and regular, and last way way longer than CFL and is brighter than CFL and regular.

 

Mercury is not a chemical, it's an element :P

 

And the amount of Mercury in them is miniscule. As logn as you don't break the bulb and lick the inside of it, you'll be fine.

[Draconic]

I do agree, the current PvP system is causing run-away inflation that has to be stopped soon.

 

However, the impacts are being overstated, and the inability to stop it for yourself is understated.

 

Basically, the best thing to do is GET RID OF YOUR COINS. 1m in coins will always be worth 1m, but 3.5m stored in a whip will increase in price, if current trends continue (which they will, if nothing changes).

 

Abotu those impacts; inflation is making things more profitable. For example, I camped Abyssal Demons to get cash for Chinning to 99 Ranging. I was able to sell them on the GE for about 3.5m at the time (their max is nearly 3.8m now). If they had not inflated, it would have taken me nearly twice as long to get enough cash. The Whip's prices are not entirely the cause of more cash coming into the game, but because players keep losing them at a rate in which Slayers and Campers can't keep up with; It is, however, being affected by more cash being pumped intot he game, like almost every item.

 

At the moment I am doing Barrows, which is even more profitable than ever. A Karil's Leather Top, once a mere 1m, is now over 3.4m. So far I've recived Torag's top and bottom, Verac's Flail, Ahrim's Top, and Guthan's top. All are more valuable than what they once were, and are continuing to increase in price. Due to their ever-increasing price, however, it is better for me to hold on to them so that more cash accumulates, than converting them into pure cash which loses it value every day.

 

Beserker rings are also severly inflated. I have not checked the price, as I am not getting them, but I know they are over 4m. Good cash for people who do DK's.

 

Likewise for Godswords, Saradomin Swords, other DK rings, potions, etc.

 

Inflation isn't that bad, but it really should be stopped. Either by Jagex releasing another massive money-sink into the game, or by removing PvP Statues. I'm for the latter at the moment. Players should lose all but their most valuable items upon death in PvP; that will increase demand and make Barrows, boss hunting, and Slaying profitable. Even though this will affect people who want those items for non-PvP purposes, it's still stable; you aren't going to lose it as fast as you would if you did do PvP, and it will increase in price, whilst the cash you spent on it wouldn't have.

 

In order for Jagex to remove Statues from PvP, they need to find a self-sustaining system: an equilibrium, if you will. One that will give-

-Give a good reason to PvP, i.e. a good reward that people will want.

-One that will contuiously delete items such as armor and weapons from the game, to keep a demand for those items, but not delete them so quickly that supply can't keep up and the price goes insane. Perhaps a fail-safe system that will collect items from PvP deaths, keep X percent of them, delete the rest, and then deposit Y amount of them into the GE if the prices start to shoot up. Have the supply just be slightly less than the demand, if possible.

-One that will not reward players in cash.

 

Now, a good reward has to be implemented. Brawlers are good, those are a nice incentive, but those alone would not keep up a demand of PvPers. Perhaps untradeable armor and weapons? Vouchers for NPC's to perform tasks for you? It can't be super powerful, as that would be unfair to people who don't do PvP, and would cause more people to skill less and PvP more, inbalancing the market.

 

As for what a player can do now: invest. Get rid of your coins, and replace them with rising items. Sell those items when you want to buy things, like pots or weapons/armor. DO NOT invest in something someone else told you to. Such advice will get around, causing artifical inflation, and making that item unstable, causing you potentially lose money. No, look for yourself in the GE database. Find something that is gradually rising. If it is skyrocketing, ignore it, it might be being manipulated, and if you invest you could see it crash right in your face. This does not mean all items: items with a massive supply and a massive demand are almost unaffected by merch clans. Astral Runes are a good example, they are rising, there are lots of them.

 

Also, DON'T PANIC and BE CAREFUL. Don't put all of your money into one item. If it crashes, you're out a lot. But you could have other items that continue to rise for you, canceling out the crashing item. Sell the crashing item, and then buy it back once it's done crashing, as then it will rebound in price a bit.

[swampjedi]

Basically, you're saying that inflation isn't so bad because you're a producer of some of the items that are doing well with respect to inflation. This isn't true for many, if not most players.

 

Again, imagine you're a new player. You want to get 70 attack and get a whip, right? But what's this, the prices go up every day? That's a good way to lose new players.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Asking a select group of players to perform that function is too susceptible to conflicts of interest.

 

Would you trust me to sit on my proposed Socio-Economic board?

 

Should there be elections (jagex selects 200 people who can campaign, and we all get to vote for 10)?

 

If so, consider this my application, Jagex ;)

 

You know, I did edit the article that all you guys like. [storm's one]

 

Why dont editors ever get any KUDOS ?

Because people don't know who the editors are. You're the unsung heroes of the Editorial Panel :P

 

So true...

But I'm going to ask for another function of the editors of the Panel, which is something along the lines of fact-checking, and have them placed on the site as well (article by X, editted by Y)...

On top of that, I think the editorial panel people should not be encumbered by the censor either (see how it ruined my sig?) But this is something I will discuss with our new head of editorials ;)

 

[hide]

I do agree, the current PvP system is causing run-away inflation that has to be stopped soon.

 

However, the impacts are being overstated, and the inability to stop it for yourself is understated.

 

Basically, the best thing to do is GET RID OF YOUR COINS. 1m in coins will always be worth 1m, but 3.5m stored in a whip will increase in price, if current trends continue (which they will, if nothing changes).

 

Abotu those impacts; inflation is making things more profitable. For example, I camped Abyssal Demons to get cash for Chinning to 99 Ranging. I was able to sell them on the GE for about 3.5m at the time (their max is nearly 3.8m now). If they had not inflated, it would have taken me nearly twice as long to get enough cash. The Whip's prices are not entirely the cause of more cash coming into the game, but because players keep losing them at a rate in which Slayers and Campers can't keep up with; It is, however, being affected by more cash being pumped intot he game, like almost every item.

 

At the moment I am doing Barrows, which is even more profitable than ever. A Karil's Leather Top, once a mere 1m, is now over 3.4m. So far I've recived Torag's top and bottom, Verac's Flail, Ahrim's Top, and Guthan's top. All are more valuable than what they once were, and are continuing to increase in price. Due to their ever-increasing price, however, it is better for me to hold on to them so that more cash accumulates, than converting them into pure cash which loses it value every day.

 

Beserker rings are also severly inflated. I have not checked the price, as I am not getting them, but I know they are over 4m. Good cash for people who do DK's.

 

Likewise for Godswords, Saradomin Swords, other DK rings, potions, etc.

 

Inflation isn't that bad, but it really should be stopped. Either by Jagex releasing another massive money-sink into the game, or by removing PvP Statues. I'm for the latter at the moment. Players should lose all but their most valuable items upon death in PvP; that will increase demand and make Barrows, boss hunting, and Slaying profitable. Even though this will affect people who want those items for non-PvP purposes, it's still stable; you aren't going to lose it as fast as you would if you did do PvP, and it will increase in price, whilst the cash you spent on it wouldn't have.

 

In order for Jagex to remove Statues from PvP, they need to find a self-sustaining system: an equilibrium, if you will. One that will give-

-Give a good reason to PvP, i.e. a good reward that people will want.

-One that will contuiously delete items such as armor and weapons from the game, to keep a demand for those items, but not delete them so quickly that supply can't keep up and the price goes insane. Perhaps a fail-safe system that will collect items from PvP deaths, keep X percent of them, delete the rest, and then deposit Y amount of them into the GE if the prices start to shoot up. Have the supply just be slightly less than the demand, if possible.

-One that will not reward players in cash.

 

Now, a good reward has to be implemented. Brawlers are good, those are a nice incentive, but those alone would not keep up a demand of PvPers. Perhaps untradeable armor and weapons? Vouchers for NPC's to perform tasks for you? It can't be super powerful, as that would be unfair to people who don't do PvP, and would cause more people to skill less and PvP more, inbalancing the market.

 

As for what a player can do now: invest. Get rid of your coins, and replace them with rising items. Sell those items when you want to buy things, like pots or weapons/armor. DO NOT invest in something someone else told you to. Such advice will get around, causing artifical inflation, and making that item unstable, causing you potentially lose money. No, look for yourself in the GE database. Find something that is gradually rising. If it is skyrocketing, ignore it, it might be being manipulated, and if you invest you could see it crash right in your face. This does not mean all items: items with a massive supply and a massive demand are almost unaffected by merch clans. Astral Runes are a good example, they are rising, there are lots of them.

 

Also, DON'T PANIC and BE CAREFUL. Don't put all of your money into one item. If it crashes, you're out a lot. But you could have other items that continue to rise for you, canceling out the crashing item. Sell the crashing item, and then buy it back once it's done crashing, as then it will rebound in price a bit.

[/hide]

 

You know I already proposed to have PVP drop useful untradables and valuable degradables (often just to sell), right?

 

As for saying that inflation makes certain things more profitable, I am going to link you to another post of mine, replying to someone comparing slayer drops to common raw materials, and how they have risen in price;

 

Please read this post carefully...

 

Obviously "everything" is rising in price, but the items that are rising faster then others are those unbound by their alch value... This makes things more and more un-even, and considering the current unbalance in what is profitable to do and what is not, the current situation drives everyone eventually to EP-farm, which adds more and more to inflation... I've explained time and again how this is the nkill switch of RuneScape, because what Jagex has left in five years (if this remains unchecked) is a bunch of people that quit RS because of going to college, and no new enthusiatic players, because everything costs too much to do...

 

Search my recent posts around this particular forum, I believe that the current situation, if left unchecked, will kill RuneScape as a fun game for everyone because it has so much variety...

[Draconic]

Mm, I know new players will have a far harder time, it's one of the reasons I support getting rid of Statues.

 

I'm not sayng inflation is good, and I do think it should be stopped or hopefully reversed, but I'm just saying inflation from PvP is making getting PvP related items, like whips, far more profitable.

 

I do know that some items, like ones that aren't used in PvP (you mentioned coal and flax) aren't rising as fast, but if people stop harvesting them because they're not able to get cash from it, the price of those items will go up. However, this won't happen, because people either don't care about profits, don't realize they're not making a lot, or want at least some cash while training their skills (like with coal, yew, natures, etc).

 

Anyway, until this is all fixed, I'd get rid of your cash.

 

But I digress. Back to Barrows with my new ardy 3 cape :) +6 prayer and magic attack for the win.

[Troacctid]

Sadly, it's true.

 

I remember when the santa outfit items were merely a rumor, and yet that rumor caused the santa hat to sky-rocket, peaking just over 34m.

Actually, the santa suit was announced in a guaranteed content poll, so it wasn't just a rumor--it was a known future update. Just like "There will be a new f2p skill" is a known future update, for example.

[MistressGlo]

Totally agree with the article on herblore. :thumbsup: I do not do PVP so the first article is not something for me to comment on except I did wonder what EP farming was :unsure: I also think the new herblore update was good for lower lvl players that get herb drops and are trying to make money selling them. Just my thoughts... not asking anyone to agree or disagee with me.

[Lord_Firer]

WOW. I have been waiting for someone to either come up with great ideas, or post them in a noticeable place for JaGex to see it, to solve this current problem. I really do hope that JaGex does get in contact with TS_Stormrage or some economic expert (so many these days :P ) to remove this stain from RS. Think, this all started from RWT. Why do people have to ruin a good game?

[stonewall337]

CFL bulbs are bad bad bad bad bad! LED is ok but CFL has a highly toxic / dangerous chemical called Mercucry in them... you break that bulb and your gonna have problems...

 

LED doesnt ahve that problem, uses LESS energy than CFL and regular, and last way way longer than CFL and is brighter than CFL and regular.

 

the bad thing bout led is that they are not cheap...

 

good read for articles though

 

EDIT:

Forget that

 

The power generated by power plants to make up the difference in power used releases more mercury than a CFL does. Not to mention you can recycle CFLs.

[Dirkmetal]

CFL bulbs are bad bad bad bad bad! LED is ok but CFL has a highly toxic / dangerous chemical called Mercucry in them... you break that bulb and your gonna have problems...

 

LED doesnt ahve that problem, uses LESS energy than CFL and regular, and last way way longer than CFL and is brighter than CFL and regular.

 

the bad thing bout led is that they are not cheap...

 

good read for articles though

 

EDIT:

Forget that

 

The power generated by power plants to make up the difference in power used releases more mercury than a CFL does. Not to mention you can recycle CFLs.

Recycle? Just like those pop cans you find on the side of the road, and in the trash, that you get paid (in some states) to recycle?

 

Yeah, I thought so.

[mara_planter]

Asking a select group of players to perform that function is too susceptible to conflicts of interest.

 

 

Would you trust me to sit on my proposed Socio-Economic board?

 

Should there be elections (jagex selects 200 people who can campaign, and we all get to vote for 10)?

 

If so, consider this my application, Jagex ;)

 

Ts_Stormrage,

 

I didn't mean to target any particular player with my remarks. In fact, paradoxically, the more useful a person is in a community, the more likely s/he is to have conflicts of interest. But too often on forums I read posts followed by a response pointing out that the person's motivation behind both the complaint and the solution is their own enrichment and not the overall welfare of the community. That someone's paycheck depends on the continued goodwill of the majority of the Runescape community is a likely check on the tendency to favor one mode of play when making gameplay decisions.

 

I don't think the Internet provides a robust way of determining whether a person one cannot meet in real life has the qualities necessary to carry out a task. I am even more skeptical of the robustness of the narrow communication channels to which Jagex restricts player communication (all in a good cause, the protection of the privacy of children). I don't think elections are meaningful unless the voter has a way to fully inform him/herself.

 

 

~Mara

[jadiswhite]

A couple of thoughts after reading these two tip.it times:

 

1st one: Had a lot of good points something does need to be fixed in the rs economy, and you really pinpointed most of the issues. HOWEVER, some of your solutions are really not thought out that well. As to rewards from drops only being only up to double what the person was carrying, makes it nearly impossible to profit from pking. If someone risks 100k-200k (which is around the average considering pures risk less mains risk more etc.) And you make on average exactly what they drop (seeing as how the drop between 0-200% of what they were carrying according to your plan) you get 100-200k for a kill that will cost at leas 60k in gear. IF you get a kill every 2 times you fight AND never die your barely breaking even...

 

A better solution would be for the drops to be statues (as they are now) + the old drops (infinity, barrows, whips etc.) But these "old drops" wouldn't be randomly generated but based on the items lost in all of pvp. For example if 500 whips were lost in a day 500 whips would be dropped as random drops for people (obviously higher percentage if you kill someone risking a whip) This way no extra items are thrown into the economy that were already there and very little (if any) are lost! This will unfortunately still make 76king profitable, but their is really very little we can do about that without ruining pking as a whole! This whole system will keep a balance in the economy (hopefully) and cause the prices of items to go down/stabalize (more items but also more cash still from statues etc.)

 

A thing I did like was your suggestion to increase the number of corrupt drops and such that are limited to PvP, it keeps things profitable for pkers without affecting prices of anything but those items :)

 

2nd one: Didn't even bother finishing reading this... You use your own argument against yourself only halfway thru it.

 

"Why would anyone bother to train their Herblore that high to make it anyway when there is a Grand Exchange that is far easier and quicker to use."

 

"Should we make every skill part of the combat level then? Having a high Fishing level means you can get your own food for use in PvP, having a high Cooking level means you can cook it too. Having a high Smithing level means you can repair your Barrows armour cheaply, meaning you might use it more readily in PvP."

 

Hopefully you realize now that your first statement contradicts the second one. GE makes skilling useless essentially, there are no advantages in PvP for having any high skills, when all of the items can be simply bought at GE..

 

I am happy that Jagex made a Herblore update, that will help High level Herblore people, and that they also kept it out of PvP. What would be interesting tho is if they made these new potions available as random drops (as mentioned in the first article.) Herblore + other skills should be kept out of the combat aspect of things, i am upset that even firemaking is a part of combat now (although only slightly for hand cannon.)

 

It is also insulting to people who PvP and complained about Herblore Potions being unfair advantages to call them "lazy." I will tell you if herblore had stayed a part of PvP the first people to get there herblore to 96 would not be the skillers...

 

Just me .02$, re-registered my account just to reply to this article so hopefully you 2 writers for this week read this and listen :)

[Ru_Nit_E]

LOLOLOL when you asked Mod himself to make money for an AGS without combat, etc.

 

I PKed legitly (no tricking, target kills only) for about a month and easily increased my networth from 28M-100M+.

 

I bought an AGS and what? Sold it the next day because of how much it fails. A "great sword"? Nothing different from any of the other godswords besides the special (in which most of the time failed me anyways), and of course, the 50M extra payment for it.

 

Let's just face it, after my 5 years of playing RuneScape, never has RS been run by such ridiculous "employees" that continuously tries to brainwash their players to think we're heading towards the right direction.

 

By the way, I've quit RuneScape a week ago. Had my last bit of disappointment when I started risking 16M+ worth of equipment to PK. Sad, yet not surprised I was still able to be defeated by other players risking 200K in rune armour as much as I was while wearing my normal gear (rune, glory, climbing boots verses fury, berserker ring, dragon boots, torag, vesta, statius, dharok, etc).

 

And before you think to yourself, "wow he must fail at PKing", I may remind you I did increase my networth as mentioned above EASILY with at least 7/10 fights deeming me the winner. But once again, even so, with my armour increasing it to 9/10 kills, that one defeat/death simply flushes my cash down the drain. So don't get me wrong, my kill/death ratio was better while risking such high-valued armour, but nowhere was it worth the revenue (aka -10M+ per death, +1-2M from kills).

 

Everyone who reads this, continue scap'ing my friends, and one day you will realize.

 

Let my words never be heard as people of the same ideas before me faced the same outcome, RuneScape be praised as the best MMO browser game ever, what a disappointment.

[noobman7]

we cant blame it 100% on pvp, the other thing that made it go up is bots....

 

one of the main bots didnt work on runetek 5 for abit making pure ess (the main item to go up) to rise in price, it rised from 90gp ea and hit 228.

 

now that its back up you can see pure ess is going back down along with lots of other items...

im sorry to tell you this jagex, bots are keeping the econmy good :s thank the bots lolz

[Ts_Stormrage]

A couple of thoughts after reading these two tip.it times:

 

1st one: Had a lot of good points something does need to be fixed in the rs economy, and you really pinpointed most of the issues. HOWEVER, some of your solutions are really not thought out that well. As to rewards from drops only being only up to double what the person was carrying, makes it nearly impossible to profit from pking. If someone risks 100k-200k (which is around the average considering pures risk less mains risk more etc.) And you make on average exactly what they drop (seeing as how the drop between 0-200% of what they were carrying according to your plan) you get 100-200k for a kill that will cost at leas 60k in gear. IF you get a kill every 2 times you fight AND never die your barely breaking even...

 

A better solution would be for the drops to be statues (as they are now) + the old drops (infinity, barrows, whips etc.) But these "old drops" wouldn't be randomly generated but based on the items lost in all of pvp. For example if 500 whips were lost in a day 500 whips would be dropped as random drops for people (obviously higher percentage if you kill someone risking a whip) This way no extra items are thrown into the economy that were already there and very little (if any) are lost! This will unfortunately still make 76king profitable, but their is really very little we can do about that without ruining pking as a whole! This whole system will keep a balance in the economy (hopefully) and cause the prices of items to go down/stabalize (more items but also more cash still from statues etc.)

 

A thing I did like was your suggestion to increase the number of corrupt drops and such that are limited to PvP, it keeps things profitable for pkers without affecting prices of anything but those items :)

 

So as I understand it now, you want to keep the one thing that has caused all this ridiculous hyper-inflation? AND add more drops to it? I'm going to explain you my solution of replacing the statues with actual items again...

The thing with my solution is; the items generated by PVP then do not add anythign to the economy, as the rewards from PVP no longer will be pure cash, but items that will be sold to other PLAYERS (not NPCs) for cash... The items degrade completely after a while, or are untradable, so no additional cash is injected into the economy... I have suggested adding more of such items to PVP drops ON TOP of normal statue/cash drops... BUT as the same time limit the cash one can get by changing the factors deciding this, and limiting it to a maximum of twice the amount your opponent was risking...

 

 

we cant blame it 100% on pvp, the other thing that made it go up is bots....

 

one of the main bots didnt work on runetek 5 for abit making pure ess (the main item to go up) to rise in price, it rised from 90gp ea and hit 228.

 

now that its back up you can see pure ess is going back down along with lots of other items...

im sorry to tell you this jagex, bots are keeping the econmy good :s thank the bots lolz

 

1, Yes, I CAN blame it 100% on PVP drops because I think that the sheer cash income from that completely eclipses any other factors currently screwing with the economy...

 

2, Bots arent putting a dent in the prices anymore these daysm but as you said, if they do mine pure essence, the solution is presented here and in this thread...

Mordendravid earlier suggested to replace everyone's Pure Essence by 3 Rune Essence while reversing the update that made Pure Essence for members back in 06...

[swampjedi]

Runecrafting is one of the only "refinement" skills that makes a profit - so I wouldn't be surprised if eventually you lose cash doing it.

 

Anyways, that's neither here nor there.

 

The new Achievement Diary rewards contain Jagex's way of throwing us a bone. 100 pure essence a day, thousands of people doing it... prices are bound to fall some.

 

I really expect some change soon. You can see that Jagex thinks there's a problem, even though they're saying no. They capped prices on some GE items - actions speak louder than words. I'm willing to bet that they collected data on the effects of the vial/eye cap (and if they didn't, they're bigger idiots than I thought!). This data probably shows that while they made these items more affordable, less people were able to get them due to no supply. I think they'll probably pull that trick at least once more before they realize they can't just adjust prices willy-nilly. That's when we'll see bigger changes made.

 

It does seem to me like Jagex has a strict development schedule, and that they don't prioritize updates well. That means that even if they plan on updating PvP to remove the massive cash influx, it's probably six months to a year out - because they're not going to stop work on other updates to do it. And to an extent, that's fair.

[Gryffin_Lord]

Awesome read on both article, i really liked the new ideas for pvp and no extreme on pvp is indeed sad. It's like saying ppl with over 80 agil cant go in pvp because they can run longer then noobs or anyone over 90 def because its annoying to dont hit.

 

Actually i was dming friend(in poh)that had overloads (i only have 85 herblore... poor ftw) and overloads doesntt seem to help that much)

 

Jagex need to do something :wall:

[TheIceMagics]

I personally think that while the potions were overpowered, they should have been balanced and left in the game. Taking them out of CW seems truly rediculous. At the moment, there is no reason to raise herblore other than the sake of it and these potions added an incentive. They should be balanced and re-introduced.