Will Zaros Bring the Balance Back?

[@Dan3HitU]

Does it actually say Guthix can't create planes or did it just say he can one shape ones?

Only shape, I'm 99% sure I've heard/read this before.

[Misterknowitall]

I just noticed something very strange in the Runescape Wiki (yes, I know anyone can edit it, but considering it is true):

Guthix is the only indigenous god of Gielinor

I remember reading somewhere that Guthix FOUND an empty plane (Gielinor).

[@Dan3HitU]

I just noticed something very strange in the Runescape Wiki (yes, I know anyone can edit it, but considering it is true):

Guthix is the only indigenous god of Gielinor

I remember reading somewhere that Guthix FOUND an empty plane (Gielinor).

Yes, then shaped it into the world we roam today, right?

[Misterknowitall]

I just noticed something very strange in the Runescape Wiki (yes, I know anyone can edit it, but considering it is true):

Guthix is the only indigenous god of Gielinor

I remember reading somewhere that Guthix FOUND an empty plane (Gielinor).

Yes, then shaped it into the world we roam today, right?

Indeed, so I doubt he is the son/daughter of an Elder God.

 

PROOF:

I claim not the creation of Gielinor; I claim it's rightful ownership, for none other dwelled here when first I arrived.

I knowst not why Saradomin would claim otherwise, other than in a bid for glory, for all other gods came to this plane whilst I slumbered.

 

http://www.runescape.com/kbase/guid/letters16

[Hippodo]

I just noticed something very strange in the Runescape Wiki (yes, I know anyone can edit it, but considering it is true):

Guthix is the only indigenous god of Gielinor

I remember reading somewhere that Guthix FOUND an empty plane (Gielinor).

Yes, then shaped it into the world we roam today, right?

Indeed, so I doubt he is the son/daughter of an Elder God.

I agree that it's unlikely. If both his parents were Elder Gods Guthix would have been one too, and if only one of his parents was one, then where is the other God? Of course it could have left together with all the Elder Gods... Assumptions, assumptions.

 

Sources tell us that Guthix indeed found this plane, although empty, and that he populated it himself. The Elves arrived through the World Gate, and the Humans through the Portal of Life etc. etc.. I don't think it's clear whether Guthix found only this dimension, or that he found this planet. The only things we know for sure is that the Elder Gods created Gielenor (the planet or the dimension?) and that Guthix populated it and brought life to it. The reason why the RuneScape Wiki says that Guthix actually can't create planes/planets is purely logical: Why would he populate a dimension someone else made instead of creating his own? I must admit that I too assumed Guthix's limits this way, though it's far from certain.

 

One thing does come to mind now, said by the Queen of Snow:

 

"The Land of Snow was created aeons ago by Guthix, as part of his balancing of the world. The coldness of this place counteracts the heat of the great deserts and volcanoes of others, ensuring the correct balance of hot and cold."

 

As with other sources, this can be taken both ways. By 'created', does she mean Guthix created the whole dimension? Or did he just find an empty plane and decided it should be cold there?

[Misterknowitall]

One thing does come to mind now, said by the Queen of Snow:

 

"The Land of Snow was created aeons ago by Guthix, as part of his balancing of the world. The coldness of this place counteracts the heat of the great deserts and volcanoes of others, ensuring the correct balance of hot and cold."

 

As with other sources, this can be taken both ways. By 'created', does she mean Guthix created the whole dimension? Or did he just find an empty plane and decided it should be cold there?

Maybe it's some sort of moon.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

I still cannot figure out why a god supposedly powerful enough to create a Staff that can banish other gods would have such a small following.

 

Oh and Jas enslaved the Dargonkin to protect the Stone no? So that means the Dragonkin were around the time of Jas, which was pre-Guthix and that means the Dragonkin must have been here before Guthix was, hence the plane couldn't have been *completely* empty. I also think the Tz-Hzaar were here before Guthix too, but I might be mistaken on that.

[Silver_Corner]

I still cannot figure out why a god supposedly powerful enough to create a Staff that can banish other gods would have such a small following.

 

Its difficult to say what the staff does exactly and where it gets its power.

 

Like we saw in the most recent quest, the staff could simply be a "magnifying glass" or sorts that just amplifies the power of the individual using it.

 

That being the case, to one person it may be very weak, while to another it may be very strong. Perhaps in Zamorak's hands it was much more powerful than Armadyl's.

 

We also don't know that he created the staff, simply that he possessed it. Saradomists often call things their own (Eg. The Eye of Saradomin) yet they did not actually create them. The same could be this case here.

 

The Dragonkin did exist before Guthix entered the realm, but it is unclear if they are still in our realm all together. They may have hid in another realm when their stone was taken, and thus Guthix did not have any sight of them while he shaped the world.

 

While we are on that topic, We also know that Guthix only shaped the world, and did not create it. However this does not mean he cannot create a world, only that he had no need to since one already existed. Guthix is definaly not an elder god though as he came through the portal just like the humans did in the meeting history quest.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

I still cannot figure out why a god supposedly powerful enough to create a Staff that can banish other gods would have such a small following.

 

Its difficult to say what the staff does exactly and where it gets its power.

 

Like we saw in the most recent quest, the staff could simply be a "magnifying glass" or sorts that just amplifies the power of the individual using it.

 

That being the case, to one person it may be very weak, while to another it may be very strong. Perhaps in Zamorak's hands it was much more powerful than Armadyl's.

 

We also don't know that he created the staff, simply that he possessed it. Saradomists often call things their own (Eg. The Eye of Saradomin) yet they did not actually create them. The same could be this case here.

 

The Dragonkin did exist before Guthix entered the realm, but it is unclear if they are still in our realm all together. They may have hid in another realm when their stone was taken, and thus Guthix did not have any sight of them while he shaped the world.

 

While we are on that topic, We also know that Guthix only shaped the world, and did not create it. However this does not mean he cannot create a world, only that he had no need to since one already existed. Guthix is definaly not an elder god though as he came through the portal just like the humans did in the meeting history quest.

 

So you just summed up pg8 in one post or something? Because you just said all the things that were said on this page by the different people. :rolleyes:

[Silver_Corner]

So you just summed up pg8 in one post or something? Because you just said all the things that were said on this page by the different people. :rolleyes:

 

No, I was answering your question on why Armadyl had such a small following. The other tad bits of info was just stuff I was confirming / giving my viewpoint on.

 

I was just stating perhaps Armadyl was not so poweful as maybe he did not create the staff, and the staff might reflect power differently. So he may have been weaker with the staff than Zamorak (Eg. Armadyl with the staff of Armadyl may not have had the power to destroy other gods.) was which explains why is following was so small.

[Hippodo]

One thing does come to mind now, said by the Queen of Snow:

 

"The Land of Snow was created aeons ago by Guthix, as part of his balancing of the world. The coldness of this place counteracts the heat of the great deserts and volcanoes of others, ensuring the correct balance of hot and cold."

 

As with other sources, this can be taken both ways. By 'created', does she mean Guthix created the whole dimension? Or did he just find an empty plane and decided it should be cold there?

Maybe it's some sort of moon.

Well it is some sort of landmass yeah, but in another dimension. That we know for sure.

 

I still cannot figure out why a god supposedly powerful enough to create a Staff that can banish other gods would have such a small following.

Armadyl has such a small following because few have heard of him. He probably was a God of average power, and he left after the Aviantese were wiped out. The God Wars were still raging though, so people switched Gods. In those times you couldn't afford being loyal to a God who isn't there. And in these times almost no one remembers him anymore.

 

As for that powerful weapon of his, like you (MHL) already said, maybe it's just a conduit. However, I don't agree with what Brianite said. It would have been far more powerful in the hands of the God Armadyl than in the hands of the Mahjarrat Zamorak.

 

And Guthix didn't come through the portal in Meeting History...

[Me_Hate_Libs]

One thing does come to mind now, said by the Queen of Snow:

 

"The Land of Snow was created aeons ago by Guthix, as part of his balancing of the world. The coldness of this place counteracts the heat of the great deserts and volcanoes of others, ensuring the correct balance of hot and cold."

 

As with other sources, this can be taken both ways. By 'created', does she mean Guthix created the whole dimension? Or did he just find an empty plane and decided it should be cold there?

Maybe it's some sort of moon.

Well it is some sort of landmass yeah, but in another dimension. That we know for sure.

 

I still cannot figure out why a god supposedly powerful enough to create a Staff that can banish other gods would have such a small following.

Armadyl has such a small following because few have heard of him. He probably was a God of average power, and he left after the Aviantese were wiped out. The God Wars were still raging though, so people switched Gods. In those times you couldn't afford being loyal to a God who isn't there. And in these times almost no one remembers him anymore.

 

As for that powerful weapon of his, like you (MHL) already said, maybe it's just a conduit. However, I don't agree with what Brianite said. It would have been far more powerful in the hands of the God Armadyl than in the hands of the Mahjarrat Zamorak.

 

And Guthix didn't come through the portal in Meeting History...

That was why I said what I said. Because you had said pretty much exactly what I had said and what everyone else said. I made the point that it acted as a power conduit for a major power source, like the Stone of Jas.

 

Oh, and did anyone have a rebuttal to my assertion that the Dragonkin were pre-Guthix and therefore the plane wasn't empty?

[Hippodo]

[hide]

One thing does come to mind now, said by the Queen of Snow:

 

"The Land of Snow was created aeons ago by Guthix, as part of his balancing of the world. The coldness of this place counteracts the heat of the great deserts and volcanoes of others, ensuring the correct balance of hot and cold."

 

As with other sources, this can be taken both ways. By 'created', does she mean Guthix created the whole dimension? Or did he just find an empty plane and decided it should be cold there?

Maybe it's some sort of moon.

Well it is some sort of landmass yeah, but in another dimension. That we know for sure.

 

I still cannot figure out why a god supposedly powerful enough to create a Staff that can banish other gods would have such a small following.

[/hide]

Armadyl has such a small following because few have heard of him. He probably was a God of average power, and he left after the Aviantese were wiped out. The God Wars were still raging though, so people switched Gods. In those times you couldn't afford being loyal to a God who isn't there. And in these times almost no one remembers him anymore.

 

As for that powerful weapon of his, like you (MHL) already said, maybe it's just a conduit. However, I don't agree with what Brianite said. It would have been far more powerful in the hands of the God Armadyl than in the hands of the Mahjarrat Zamorak.

 

And Guthix didn't come through the portal in Meeting History...

That was why I said what I said. Because you had said pretty much exactly what I had said and what everyone else said. I made the point that it acted as a power conduit for a major power source, like the Stone of Jas.

 

Oh, and did anyone have a rebuttal to my assertion that the Dragonkin were pre-Guthix and therefore the plane wasn't empty?

Must've missed that part eh? I'm only agreeing with you, not stealing your ideas or anything. And I believe you have a point about the Dragonkin thing.

[Misterknowitall]

[hide]

One thing does come to mind now, said by the Queen of Snow:

 

"The Land of Snow was created aeons ago by Guthix, as part of his balancing of the world. The coldness of this place counteracts the heat of the great deserts and volcanoes of others, ensuring the correct balance of hot and cold."

 

As with other sources, this can be taken both ways. By 'created', does she mean Guthix created the whole dimension? Or did he just find an empty plane and decided it should be cold there?

Maybe it's some sort of moon.

Well it is some sort of landmass yeah, but in another dimension. That we know for sure.

 

I still cannot figure out why a god supposedly powerful enough to create a Staff that can banish other gods would have such a small following.

[/hide]

Armadyl has such a small following because few have heard of him. He probably was a God of average power, and he left after the Aviantese were wiped out. The God Wars were still raging though, so people switched Gods. In those times you couldn't afford being loyal to a God who isn't there. And in these times almost no one remembers him anymore.

 

As for that powerful weapon of his, like you (MHL) already said, maybe it's just a conduit. However, I don't agree with what Brianite said. It would have been far more powerful in the hands of the God Armadyl than in the hands of the Mahjarrat Zamorak.

 

And Guthix didn't come through the portal in Meeting History...

That was why I said what I said. Because you had said pretty much exactly what I had said and what everyone else said. I made the point that it acted as a power conduit for a major power source, like the Stone of Jas.

 

Oh, and did anyone have a rebuttal to my assertion that the Dragonkin were pre-Guthix and therefore the plane wasn't empty?

Must've missed that part eh? I'm only agreeing with you, not stealing your ideas or anything. And I believe you have a point about the Dragonkin thing.

I remember discussing if Guthix actually met the Dragonkin or not back in the Dragonkin thread.

 

Maybe ...

Just maybe...

Guthix is a fraud :shock:

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Hipp, I meant to quote Aurian and I quote you by accident. That was my mistake. Sorry. :oops:

[Hippodo]

I remember discussing if Guthix actually met the Dragonkin or not back in the Dragonkin thread.

 

Maybe ...

Just maybe...

Guthix is a fraud :shock:

It's inevitable really. In Meeting History we see Guthix using the Stone of Jas to create the runes, and that was after the Elder Gods left Gielenor and charged the Dragonkin with guarding it, so Guthix must've met them. :mellow: Strange... Too bad I can't read that thread *points to sig* Damn you 65 Herblore requirement :evil:. But the long wait is over now! I am now able to do While Guthix Sleeps and be up-to-date with everything :).

 

Hipp, I meant to quote Aurian and I quote you by accident. That was my mistake. Sorry. :oops:

Alright, it was a mistake. No harm done :).

[Misterknowitall]

I remember discussing if Guthix actually met the Dragonkin or not back in the Dragonkin thread.

 

Maybe ...

Just maybe...

Guthix is a fraud :shock:

It's inevitable really. In Meeting History we see Guthix using the Stone of Jas to create the runes, and that was after the Elder Gods left Gielenor and charged the Dragonkin with guarding it, so Guthix must've met them. :mellow: Strange... Too bad I can't read that thread *points to sig* Damn you 65 Herblore requirement :evil:. But the long wait is over now! I am now able to do While Guthix Sleeps and be up-to-date with everything :).

Awesomness :thumbsup:

It's really epic and I hope you didn't get spoiled too much over the past year :P

[Hippodo]

More than I'd like to, but I still think it's gonna be great :D.

[chuckangie]

No one knows how Zaros' return will bring balance back in rs. All I know is, compared to Bandos at least, he's not such a bad god.

 

Based on what we've heard from various npcs in various quests, Zaros ruled an area all across the northern coldest wilderness to the southern deserts. And these places used to be paradise during Zaros' rule. His cities were prosperous to say the least. Now who messed up the wildy? It was Sara, Zammy, Bandos and Armadyl with their godwars. Zaros had nothing to do with it other than causing it due to his absence. Its like Zaros' presence kept Runsecape peaceful.

 

Guthix likes RS peaceful... Everything in harmony with everything else. Maybe thats why he approves Zaros' return to RS.

 

Maybe Zaros is like a sheriff in an old western town. He hired a bunch of questionable deputies (mahjarrats) in theoretically good intentions but it backfired and cause his downfall. Of course not all those deputies are bad. Its only the Zamorakian mahjarrats that cause mischief and they're quite unfriendly when you talk to them. The Zarosian ones are okay guys.

 

Now as for which god is more powerful than the other, I think thats not the case in how Guthix stopped the godwars. I see the godwars as an out of control wrestling match with sara and zammy along with their allies as the wrestlers. Guthix is the referee. Either wrestler can easily beat up the referee but they shouldn't cuz thats the referee.

 

Lets say Zaros is the heavy weight champ. While the ref wasn't paying attention, someone slipped in a folding chair and hits Zaros in the back costing him the title. Zammy gets the title, helped by Sara because Sara can't beat Zaros. At least now the title is in the hands of someone he thinks he can beat.

 

The match gets out of control, Guthix the referee finally wakes and and declares to stop the match. Wrestlers have to comply no matter what.

 

Its a strange analogy but it makes sense for me.

[Misterknowitall]

Now as for which god is more powerful than the other, I think thats not the case in how Guthix stopped the godwars. I see the godwars as an out of control wrestling match with sara and zammy along with their allies as the wrestlers. Guthix is the referee. Either wrestler can easily beat up the referee but they shouldn't cuz thats the referee.

 

Lets say Zaros is the heavy weight champ. While the ref wasn't paying attention, someone slipped in a folding chair and hits Zaros in the back costing him the title. Zammy gets the title, helped by Sara because Sara can't beat Zaros. At least now the title is in the hands of someone he thinks he can beat.

 

The match gets out of control, Guthix the referee finally wakes and and declares to stop the match. Wrestlers have to comply no matter what.

 

Its a strange analogy but it makes sense for me.

I think it's a wrong analogy. If you we're an all-powerfull god trying to control the world, you wouldn't let some weak referee tell you what to do. So they obviously couldn't easily beat up Guthix because he was too powerfull.

 

Also: Saradomin didn't really help Zamorak to gain his godhood. One of his followers did. And when Zamorak returned, it was he who waged war against Saradomin (and Armadyl).

[Hajutze]

I think it's a wrong analogy. If you we're an all-powerfull god trying to control the world, you wouldn't let some weak referee tell you what to do. So they obviously couldn't easily beat up Guthix because he was too powerfull.

 

Also: Saradomin didn't really help Zamorak to gain his godhood. One of his followers did. And when Zamorak returned, it was he who waged war against Saradomin (and Armadyl).

IMO Guthix is more powerful then the other gods ALONE, but 2-3 of them are more powerful then he is .. the catch in here is that if one of the gods try to battle Guthix he needs to be sure that he has the support of the others ... That will happen pretty hard considering that they were fighting moments ago (if I might say so) ... In other words each one of them were afraid that the others will backstab them.

[shawn3090]

I believe Zaros was hated by the other gods because he was the most powerful (besides Guthix, of course) of them all, and he ruled an empire from the Wilderness all the way down to Edgeville and Mortyania.

[Wkw]

Maybe the staff of Armadyl is just named that. There is nothing saying that the staff belonged to Armadyl, was made by Armadyl, or had any other connection to him. His followers might of found it and gave it his name

 

And the staff didn't banish Zaros. Zamorak stabbed Zaros, and afterwards, fell on the staff, stabbing himself. Zaros's divine power flowed to Zamorak and they both went "poof". Zamorak came back when he mastered his divine power, and Zaros was too weak to return.

 

Perhaps Zaros is the god of forceful balance? Guthix is willing to balance the world naturally, when Zaros might of kept balance by ruling and controling everything?

[Misterknowitall]

I have a feeling that the next GM quest will focus around the Ritual, since there has been a lot of recent buildup toward it. In less than a year we have learned what the Ritual actually is and where it is being held. We have also learned the names of tons of new Mahjarrat. We witnessed the return of Arrav, who's heart is now in the hands of a possible Zarosian Mahjarrat and we have caught a glimpse of Zaros.

The chance is likely that Zaros will return during the time of the Ritual and poop the party.

 

And let's not forget about the Dragonkin...

[Emmentail]

Hipp, I meant to quote Aurian and I quote you by accident. That was my mistake. Sorry. :oops:

 

I haven't even posted in this thread until now?

 

I personally don't see Zaros returning in a physical form (or if he does i'm sure it won't be for very long). The Runescape gods just tend to mess things up when they're around. Best be rid of them I say.