Another developer blog.

 

Hi! Im Mod Mark. Hopefully, you recognise my name from the forums or from my Clan Chat in-game (everybodys welcome), but if you dont, Im the Lead Designer and have worked with RuneScape for seven years. I wanted to take this opportunity to chat about something Ive often seen being discussed in game, especially recently: quest difficulty levels.

 

One of the most challenging parts of designing content is deciding how difficult something should be. We try to ensure that we have a real mix of content on our release schedule, some of which we want to make hard to complete.

 

Doing this isnt easy. If you want a quest to be challenging for a player with the minimum stats required for it, then it isnt going to be as big a challenge for players whose stats are much higher. But then, if the player has a higher level account than the quest was intended for, why shouldnt they breeze through it? They earned the stats, so they should be allowed to one-hit a boss if they really want.

 

One option is to make puzzles that have nothing to do with an accounts stats. We do add those quite often, but in many different formats. Some might be more traditional, like a sliding tile puzzle, whereas others might be more complex like the one in Mournings Ends Part 2, where youre interpreting a 3D light puzzle across several floors. Of course, some people find these sorts of puzzles very easy, whereas others will quickly dive for the QuestHelp and spend their points on being given a solution.

 

With our Grandmaster quests (GMQ), we want to challenge the avatar (the character you control on the screen) AND the player. This means using lots of the techniques described above, often combining them and removing the ability to brute force content. By that I mean making sure the challenge cant be bypassed with prayers or lots of cash. Were trying to give the player a different kind of experience than they are used to, and hope that the player has a real sense of achievement when they have completed it.

 

The things that difficulty does NOT incorporate are length, storyline and game knowledge. I simply do not believe that a difficult quest has to be long or story heavy - far from it. Our first GMQ (While Guthix Sleeps) was quite long and plot heavy, whereas our more recent GMQ (Nomads Requiem) was quite short and plot light. Future GMQs will also vary wildly, with some being giant, behemoth-like, plot-waving extravaganzas and others being considerably smaller.

 

Regarding game knowledge, both of these GMQ contained very different sorts of puzzles and challenges: one required lots of Quest Points, whereas the other required that you knew how to play a minigame and to plan well for a tough fight. These are very, very different prerequisites indeed, and we intend to continue to release a range of GMQs appealing to different types of players.

 

They do share many traits too. For example, both quests feature monsters that modify attacks based on player combat strategy. Both quests offer access to new top-end gear, both cosmetic and practical. Both quests hugely penalise the player for not paying close attention to whats going on around them.

 

As far as skill levels are concerned, we generally feel that all GMQs should contain multiple skills over level 70, with slight tweaks on that depending on if its what we consider a hard skill (like Slayer) or an easy skill (like Woodcutting). It also depends on what the top quest requirements are at the time of launch - for example, right now, we have some skills with a top quest requirement of 75 (like Ranged, Magic, etc), whereas others are only as high as 45 (Summoning). Therefore, if a quest needed a Summoning requirement, its more likely to be a 45+ Summoning requirement than a 75+ Summoning requirement. This means that, right now, GMQ level requirements are quite low, but they will continue to rise as we release higher and higher-levelled quests. One day, I would love to see a quest with multiple level 90+ skills, but we have to fill the gaps up to 90 first.

WTF? How many blogs do they need to do in a day?

These things are popping up every hour now?

Lemme sum up the blog.

 

We're doing more GM quests. They're not going to be special, just another quest difficulty level. They're also not going to have high requirements for a long time. Sorry for the disappointment.

The things that difficulty does NOT incorporate are length, storyline and game knowledge.

 

 

Take that, to those who think that Nomad's Requiem fail because of length :cool:

WTF? How many blogs do they need to do in a day?

Wouldn't want them to release too much on a day now, would we? :angry:

I wish they'd do more mourning's ends part II style quests. Those are the fun quests, and that's the only quest i've actually felt real achievement completeing without a guide.

I wish they'd do more mourning's ends part II style quests. Those are the fun quests, and that's the only quest i've actually felt real achievement completeing without a guide.

 

I felt good after completing Nomad's Requiem aswell.

They need another more up-to-date quest with puzzles as hard as the Mournings End II one though.

The things that difficulty does NOT incorporate are length, storyline and game knowledge.

 

 

Take that, to those who think that Nomad's Requiem fail because of length :cool:

 

Our issue was that they went back on what they had said previously that GM quests were gonna be special quest that would be long, difficult, and plot heavy/ They have since changed their position on this.

 

I'm upset not because they went back of what they said or anything like that. I think they had a great opportunity with GM quests and I think they have comopletely squandered that opportunity for some special.

Lemme sum up the blog.

 

We're doing more GM quests. They're not going to be special, just another quest difficulty level. They're also not going to have high requirements for a long time. Sorry for the disappointment.

 

I don't think anybody thought that they were intended to be Special Quests. Grandmaster quests are simply meant to be more challenging, even to the higher levelled players, and they do that very well. The next one will probably be the 200th quest, given that RFD was the 150th one, so we've still got a long time to go yet. Nobody is disappointed apart from you and your made up expectations.

What kind of stupid [wagon] logic is that? JaGeX is the only company I know that try to be unique (stupid) and even though they fail constantly, they make money. "Because a quest requires only 45 Summoning, we'll have to release 100 more useless quests like Rune Mechanics - all of which no beginner could possibly complete with all of the other existant low level content, until they're level 138 - until the Summoning requirement is an extremely high level 70!"

WTF? How many blogs do they need to do in a day?

Wouldn't want them to release too much on a day now, would we? :angry:

 

After the last 2 blogs, the more the better!

Lemme sum up the blog.

 

We're doing more GM quests. They're not going to be special, just another quest difficulty level. They're also not going to have high requirements for a long time. Sorry for the disappointment.

 

I don't think anybody thought that they were intended to be Special Quests. Grandmaster quests are simply meant to be more challenging, even to the higher levelled players, and they do that very well. The next one will probably be the 200th quest, given that RFD was the 150th one, so we've still got a long time to go yet. Nobody is disappointed apart from you and your made up expectations.

 

Um, not made up. They stated it rather explicitly on the forums,. Sadly as this was well over a year ago you can't find it anymore. They ruined something that they themslves were going to be special. Now, they're ... not.

The things that difficulty does NOT incorporate are length, storyline and game knowledge.

 

 

Take that, to those who think that Nomad's Requiem fail because of length :cool:

 

Our issue was that they went back on what they had said previously that GM quests were gonna be special quest that would be long, difficult, and plot heavy/ They have since changed their position on this.

 

I'm upset not because they went back of what they said or anything like that. I think they had a great opportunity with GM quests and I think they have comopletely squandered that opportunity for some special.

 

I'll just stick with understanding the rank of the quest as the difficulty, instead of associating the term with length and plot (quest length is listed in the Knowledge Base). Nomad's Requiem caused enough uproar that I won't rank it as a Master quest personally, and while WGS was a great quest, expecting similar standards because of a label would be silly. They decided not to associate storyline and length with the quest ranking, great. Now you know that as a fact.

 

That doesn't mean that we won't see anymore good quests. A label can't stop a quest from being awesome. :thumbup:

Lemme sum up the blog.

 

We're doing more GM quests. They're not going to be special, just another quest difficulty level. They're also not going to have high requirements for a long time. Sorry for the disappointment.

 

I don't think anybody thought that they were intended to be Special Quests. Grandmaster quests are simply meant to be more challenging, even to the higher levelled players, and they do that very well. The next one will probably be the 200th quest, given that RFD was the 150th one, so we've still got a long time to go yet. Nobody is disappointed apart from you and your made up expectations.

 

Um, not made up. They stated it rather explicitly on the forums,. Sadly as this was well over a year ago you can't find it anymore. They ruined something that they themslves were going to be special. Now, they're ... not.

 

I read about this as well. Jagex specifically mentioned that future Grandmaster quests would be similar to 'While Guthix Sleeps' in terms of structure and deep plot involvment. They were supposed to be truly epic quests which we could only expect to be released once per year or so, but now the label's devolved into just another quest difficulty rating, which I (personally) find to be highly disappointing. I was looking forward to something "special", to be honest.

WTF? How many blogs do they need to do in a day?

I am in awe of your ability to complain about absolutely ANYTHING. Oh noes, we got two blogs instead of one! RAAGE!! -_-

 

And great summary ;) You basically misinterpreted everything =)

They already have high requirements, and will keep getting higher. They didn't say they wont be high for a while...

And they said they ARE going to be special. Epic length and storyline doesnt equal special.

I read about this as well. Jagex specifically mentioned that future Grandmaster quests would be similar to 'While Guthix Sleeps' in terms of structure and deep plot involvment. They were supposed to be truly epic quests which we could only expect to be released once per year or so, but now the label's devolved into just another quest difficulty rating, which I (personally) find to be highly disappointing. I was looking forward to something "special", to be honest.

jagex still plans to release a super epic grandmaster quest once a year

I think their standards just changed so that lesser grade grandmaster quests can also be included as well

I find nothing wrong with that. Just means we get a few lesser GM quests with massive rewards. Suits me fine

WTF? How many blogs do they need to do in a day?

I am in awe of your ability to complain about absolutely ANYTHING. Oh noes, we got two blogs instead of one! RAAGE!! -_-

Because that was a serious complaint...

"Yeah, we know we set a big precedence with the first Grandmaster quest. But that takes too long. So here's why we changed it: because we can."

 

There, I just saved you 5 minutes.

Did anyone else think that the idea of their gradual raising of difficulty is bunk? Are they only talking about skill requirements? They must be because the level of difficulty of killing Nomad against something like The Inadequate or Balance Elemental was a *huge* step up in difficulty and hardly in line with their statement of a gradual increasing of difficulty.

 

And Amus, you'd be dumbfounded by my ability to complain. Also, you assume I was complaining. Itwasn't. It was mild astronishment/curiousity over having 3 of them in a day, when we go for more than a week with none.

 

Guess they wanted to get them all out by the weekend? :P

Did anyone else think that the idea of their gradual raising of difficulty is bunk? Are they only talking about skill requirements? They must be because the level of difficulty of killing Nomad against something like The Inadequate or Balance Elemental was a *huge* step up in difficulty and hardly in line with their statement of a gradual increasing of difficulty.

 

And Amus, you'd be dumbfounded by my ability to complain. Also, you assume I was complaining. Itwasn't. It was mild astronishment/curiousity over having 3 of them in a day, when we go for more than a week with none.

 

Guess they wanted to get them all out by the weekend? :P

 

There's only two new dev blogs, which isn't uncommon. We usually get them in pairs it seems.

 

I agree with Mod Mark's account of what a GM quest is. Interesting blog, and one that I hoped would shut people up, but I guess that was way too much to ask for.

A quest with puzzles like in mourning ends part 2, boss like in nomad requiem, battles like the ones in blood runs deep and the lenght of a wgs. Would be awesome.

Did anyone else think that the idea of their gradual raising of difficulty is bunk? Are they only talking about skill requirements? They must be because the level of difficulty of killing Nomad against something like The Inadequate or Balance Elemental was a *huge* step up in difficulty and hardly in line with their statement of a gradual increasing of difficulty.

 

And Amus, you'd be dumbfounded by my ability to complain. Also, you assume I was complaining. Itwasn't. It was mild astronishment/curiousity over having 3 of them in a day, when we go for more than a week with none.

 

Guess they wanted to get them all out by the weekend? :P

 

There's only two new dev blogs, which isn't uncommon. We usually get them in pairs it seems.

 

I agree with Mod Mark's account of what a GM quest is. Interesting blog, and one that I hoped would shut people up, but I guess that was way too much to ask for.

 

Yeah, there's a shock... <_<

 

I know what a GM quest is, I just am a little saddened over what it could have, and *should* have been, if they stuck by what they said initially.

 

And from the way the Big Ticket thing was posted on here I thought it was a Dev Blog. That was my mistake.

 

Can we move on to something else though?

 

Why did they post that blog today? No one has really been talking about GM quests or Nomad. That blog would've made more sense if they did it shortly after they released Nomad.

 

Anyone else think that another GM quest might be coming out? Maybe another short one so they put this out early to try and shut people down premptively?

Anyone else think that another GM quest might be coming out? Maybe another short one so they put this out early to try and shut people down premptively?

 

Very likely, especially if they decide to beef up FT3 to GM status without really changing the overall structure of the quest they already have formed.

Anyone else think that another GM quest might be coming out? Maybe another short one so they put this out early to try and shut people down premptively?

 

Very likely, especially if they decide to beef up FT3 to GM status without really changing the overall structure of the quest they already have formed.

 

Emilee did say it had a very complex combat aspect. Another Mod told me that was one of the reasons it got bounced back to the dveloper twice from QA instead of the usual one time for fixes and feedback.