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Tip.it Times 4 April 2010


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#1
Mirror
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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

Enjoy the articles!
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#2
Kata_Phfract__the_slayer
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kinda funny that we have to specify what artical where talking about when there is only one..

anyway about the clan artical i agree with it, clans are rather left out in rs, besides an uncomon jagex cup or stuff like that, clans have only goten reletively small updates that are not really for clans just anyone who wants them (team caps was pointed out) although some of the "clan" updates did benifit normal players more then it could a clan ever (clan wars, im not in a clan but i still love going and killing people :))

as for some of the ideas put in, i feal most if not all could be put in and work really well (clan halls ftw!).
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#3
Aiel
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great, DYK if I ever decide to get infinity or unlock B2P I'll remember that :thumbup:

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#4
aspeeder
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Great DYK and the article was very interesting too, the only problem right now is that clans are very easy to set up and abandon but all the changes the author was suggesting would require a lot more official procedure to creating and managing the clan.

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#5
Bayonnetta
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the only problem right now is that clans are very easy to set up and abandon but all the changes the author was suggesting would require a lot more official procedure to creating and managing the clan.



Yes, but if the changes were aimed atvery active clans then surely it wouldnt matter?
Otherwise, the Dyk was interesting but I'll never have enough patiance for full Penance, and I liked the article!



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#6
Hawks
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I thought it was interesting.. Not much else to say though.

#7
tortilliachp
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the changes suggested benefit small clans. it does not bring back the clan community of the past, f2p warring culture, it does not increase the density of pking teams in f2p or p2p. Most of the damage has already been done: the old, strong clan members have left runescape permanently. The new players joining the game cannot be people who primarily want the clan experience, runescape is increasingly a game of individuals.

no, clan activities must give real rewards, not "trophies" that is the only way of reviving clans.

start with bosses, try to create pvm wars for groups ("campaigns"), improve the rules you can set in CWA, and rewards for CWA fighting. ensure that BH and PVP world wars become more profitable to fight ( a deposit box at member gate?), fill the wilderness with monsters and item spawns in PVP / BH worlds to make it more travelled (double mining ores in pvp wilderness anyone?).

The question is how many of these things Jagex manage to implement, or can implement without making abuse easy.

the wilderness in pvp and bh worlds need change. real clan rewards come from other players, clan competitions, not from jagex-made achievements.

#8
Me_Hate_Libs
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God how tired I am of hearing about clans. My favorite part of Runescape is its primary focus on individual play and individual accomplishment.
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#9
tortilliachp
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God how tired I am of hearing about clans. My favorite part of Runescape is its primary focus on individual play and individual accomplishment.


play an rpg then, not an mmorpg.

#10
Me_Hate_Libs
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God how tired I am of hearing about clans. My favorite part of Runescape is its primary focus on individual play and individual accomplishment.


play an rpg then, not an mmorpg.


Um,no? I like interacting with people. I don't mind competing with people. I like to achieve things with other people trying to do the same. I like that I'm not forced into group activities like you are in WoW. I'm just very, very over hearing about clans when I don't think that many people are even in them.

The community opinion seems to be if you don't agree with the community opinion you need to quit our game.
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#11
Ezkaton
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God how tired I am of hearing about clans. My favorite part of Runescape is its primary focus on individual play and individual accomplishment.


play an rpg then, not an mmorpg.


Um,no? I like interacting with people. I don't mind competing with people. I like to achieve things with other people trying to do the same. I like that I'm not forced into group activities like you are in WoW. I'm just very, very over hearing about clans when I don't think that many people are even in them.

The community opinion seems to be if you don't agree with the community opinion you need to quit our game.


Clans actually play no part in runescape. RS Could easily survive without them. The only times you need to have participation with other people is when you're FORCED to. EG Heroes quest, Shield of Arrav etc. You HAVE to use people. But anyways, clans are not needed in RS. Sure things they can be helpful. Finding a PC clan, or the SC clan or whatever will help you alot doing some things, however it's not needed is it?

Clans are therefore not an integral part of RS. Just like they're not in some other places like Halo 3 online. You don't need a clan, but my girlfriends brother and I are making one. Therefore they have no real purpose in a game. Updates should be made for all players not just for clans.

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#12
InkofDeath
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The author just scratched the surface of the needs and potential of clans.

Gaining achievements or doing 'something' that shows yourself off to your entire clan is a big incentive to be in a team. Already in-game you have the ability to get a level 99 and show it off to your clan. If Jagex employed a social networking system based on clans, and you got updates whenever someone in your group or clan did something 'special', or achieved something or completed a quest, then the whole social interaction of a clan would give such motivation to play the game and participate in clan events. This is already done in many clans but it is all manually operated. Not to mention this is only the stuff that is currently in the game. If Jagex released clan-centric achievements/activities that could be linked into this clan social networking system, then you'd see an increase in clan activity. Developing content for the soul purpose of having members in clans being able to brag about achieving it will do wonders. Yet Jagex needs to remember that the majority of clans have level hotspots: 40 to 70, 80 to 100 and 120+. Jagex should try to target these hotspots with whatever content they may release for clans.

Leaderboards for not just stats and mini-games but also for quests and content that involves timed runs or real world skill like reaction time or 'quick-thinking', would also be better than just doing something that requires X amount of time to get to #1. Prolonging content with time-based activities is going to cause grinding.

End content in this game is rather dry. More proper game mechanics to ensure more entertaining monster hunts would be greatly appreciated. There's not enough structure or control when going Boss hunting for clans. It just isn't existent. The CC system was similar to a child's game rather than the adult game I was hoping for when they announced it. The CC system lacks depth and features to exploit the huge potential that is has.


There's just so much Jagex could do with clans or even groups and I am surprised every day that there isn't an update that just explodes the waiting potential in clans in RuneScape.


Excellent article.

#13
Zepheras
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God how tired I am of hearing about clans. My favorite part of Runescape is its primary focus on individual play and individual accomplishment.


play an rpg then, not an mmorpg.


Um,no? I like interacting with people. I don't mind competing with people. I like to achieve things with other people trying to do the same. I like that I'm not forced into group activities like you are in WoW. I'm just very, very over hearing about clans when I don't think that many people are even in them.

The community opinion seems to be if you don't agree with the community opinion you need to quit our game.


Clans actually play no part in runescape. RS Could easily survive without them. The only times you need to have participation with other people is when you're FORCED to. EG Heroes quest, Shield of Arrav etc. You HAVE to use people. But anyways, clans are not needed in RS. Sure things they can be helpful. Finding a PC clan, or the SC clan or whatever will help you alot doing some things, however it's not needed is it?

Clans are therefore not an integral part of RS. Just like they're not in some other places like Halo 3 online. You don't need a clan, but my girlfriends brother and I are making one. Therefore they have no real purpose in a game. Updates should be made for all players not just for clans.


Why not? I find that games that provide some form of team/club/guild/clan formation tend to keep their players longer. You have the sense of belonging to the group, the tendency to log in for some group event, or just to chat with fellow members, and provide/ask for advice/help. The article isn't suggesting teamwork gameplay, just more in-game clan support. An actual location in game to provide a clan base (much like your POH), and proper registration of a clan and its members, a page on the RuneScape to list down registered clans etc.....

The supposed 'clan chat' seems more like a group chat function to me, not an actual clan system, even though there's ranking system.
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#14
Me_Hate_Libs
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God how tired I am of hearing about clans. My favorite part of Runescape is its primary focus on individual play and individual accomplishment.


play an rpg then, not an mmorpg.


Um,no? I like interacting with people. I don't mind competing with people. I like to achieve things with other people trying to do the same. I like that I'm not forced into group activities like you are in WoW. I'm just very, very over hearing about clans when I don't think that many people are even in them.

The community opinion seems to be if you don't agree with the community opinion you need to quit our game.


Clans actually play no part in runescape. RS Could easily survive without them. The only times you need to have participation with other people is when you're FORCED to. EG Heroes quest, Shield of Arrav etc. You HAVE to use people. But anyways, clans are not needed in RS. Sure things they can be helpful. Finding a PC clan, or the SC clan or whatever will help you alot doing some things, however it's not needed is it?

Clans are therefore not an integral part of RS. Just like they're not in some other places like Halo 3 online. You don't need a clan, but my girlfriends brother and I are making one. Therefore they have no real purpose in a game. Updates should be made for all players not just for clans.


Why not? I find that games that provide some form of team/club/guild/clan formation tend to keep their players longer. You have the sense of belonging to the group, the tendency to log in for some group event, or just to chat with fellow members, and provide/ask for advice/help. The article isn't suggesting teamwork gameplay, just more in-game clan support. An actual location in game to provide a clan base (much like your POH), and proper registration of a clan and its members, a page on the RuneScape to list down registered clans etc.....

The supposed 'clan chat' seems more like a group chat function to me, not an actual clan system, even though there's ranking system.


Ugh, "belonging to the group?" That thought alone makes me feel queasy.
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#15
Ezkaton
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God how tired I am of hearing about clans. My favorite part of Runescape is its primary focus on individual play and individual accomplishment.


play an rpg then, not an mmorpg.


Um,no? I like interacting with people. I don't mind competing with people. I like to achieve things with other people trying to do the same. I like that I'm not forced into group activities like you are in WoW. I'm just very, very over hearing about clans when I don't think that many people are even in them.

The community opinion seems to be if you don't agree with the community opinion you need to quit our game.


Clans actually play no part in runescape. RS Could easily survive without them. The only times you need to have participation with other people is when you're FORCED to. EG Heroes quest, Shield of Arrav etc. You HAVE to use people. But anyways, clans are not needed in RS. Sure things they can be helpful. Finding a PC clan, or the SC clan or whatever will help you alot doing some things, however it's not needed is it?

Clans are therefore not an integral part of RS. Just like they're not in some other places like Halo 3 online. You don't need a clan, but my girlfriends brother and I are making one. Therefore they have no real purpose in a game. Updates should be made for all players not just for clans.


Why not? I find that games that provide some form of team/club/guild/clan formation tend to keep their players longer. You have the sense of belonging to the group, the tendency to log in for some group event, or just to chat with fellow members, and provide/ask for advice/help. The article isn't suggesting teamwork gameplay, just more in-game clan support. An actual location in game to provide a clan base (much like your POH), and proper registration of a clan and its members, a page on the RuneScape to list down registered clans etc.....

The supposed 'clan chat' seems more like a group chat function to me, not an actual clan system, even though there's ranking system.


Ugh, "belonging to the group?" That thought alone makes me feel queasy.


Why do you need in game clan support when say they have websites? And they can all meet in a POH. What's the point in another room but this time for clans? There isn't. They already is a dining hall which could be seen as a meeting hall for clan people, there is so much you can do in a POH that people in clans don't know or understand how to utilise it properly. The article is suggesting updates like that which is a pointless idea. I mean c'mon, based on the suggestions he's got what will be the point in skill and quest halls? There wont be one. Or what will be the point in the clan room? Apart from squishing 2 rooms into 1.
And Clans make themselves known and don't need to be registered really. They all have websites where they can organise events. They have an "Epic sized" world to roam around and meet up in.

Tip.it is technically a clan system based on what you said about belonging to a group. Yet people here believe that there's not enough done for the single player. RS is a single player game. You come into the game on your own, you level on your own, you do almost everything on your own. So please try and justify apart from the reasons of things like SC BA and PC there are clans? They are only created because people want to do it. So let them do it by themselves and let Jagex keep rolling out updates for the single player.

And yes clan chat is more a group chat system. I hardly feel part of "the tip.it clan" or "lady h's army" or whatever, I'm just a guy who goes in to chat every so often.

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#16
tortilliachp
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God how tired I am of hearing about clans. My favorite part of Runescape is its primary focus on individual play and individual accomplishment.


play an rpg then, not an mmorpg.


Um,no? I like interacting with people. I don't mind competing with people. I like to achieve things with other people trying to do the same. I like that I'm not forced into group activities like you are in WoW. I'm just very, very over hearing about clans when I don't think that many people are even in them.

The community opinion seems to be if you don't agree with the community opinion you need to quit our game.



How often do you use a clan chat? I think you have a very narrow view of what a clan is, rather than the definition Jagex seems to use. In interacting with people, i think you utilize clan features almost every time you play.

Jagex have claimed, repeatedly the last Q&A sessions that they wish for 50% quest / skilling time in our runescape play, and 50% "other activities", that leaves minigames, D&D and clan activities as something Jagex publicly asserts should take half your ingame runescape time. They also advertise the p2p game to have 25 000 hours of p2p content. I can easily show you 25 000 hours of quests (without guides obviously) and skilling. Show me 12500 hours of minigames and clan activities? Our clan updates are overdue.

If you are tired hearing about 50% of the game you play, haven't you become either selfish, or grown away from the game? I'd say those are pretty clear reasons to consider rpgs that advertise their games more towards your liking. Many allow you to chat with others, but not interact directly other than through trade. They have IRC channels, official forums etc. where you can get your "interaction". G

oing by your incessant complaints about some aspect in almost every topic, you might wanna step back and think about your gaming experience, and your tip.it "interaction" before posting your usual unfounded one-line complaints. You can't neglect runescape in your own terms, because they contradict with what Jagex state they will provide you.

Based on your posts on the tip.it forums the last couple of months, It seems you do wish to play an rpg, but an rpg where you can chat to other people. That is not the MMORPG gameplay Jagex advertises itself as. Your complaints are unreasonable, you know what you've signed up to play, you want something else. If I continually complain about the lack of RWT opportunities within runescape, and whine about it at every opportunity, wouldn't you tell me to find myself a different game to play?

sorry, asserting yourself in a victim's role "told by the community to quit". it's very unbecoming, especially considering what runescape actually describes itself to be.

#17
onedaysoon
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There were some good points brought up in this article. For anyone that is really wanting to get something out of an MMORPG in the clan way, try out Guild Wars. If you aren't really keen to try a new game thats fine, but from what I know Guild Wars has almost all of the aforementioned features.

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#18
demby123
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God how tired I am of hearing about clans. My favorite part of Runescape is its primary focus on individual play and individual accomplishment.


play an rpg then, not an mmorpg.


Um,no? I like interacting with people. I don't mind competing with people. I like to achieve things with other people trying to do the same. I like that I'm not forced into group activities like you are in WoW. I'm just very, very over hearing about clans when I don't think that many people are even in them.

The community opinion seems to be if you don't agree with the community opinion you need to quit our game.

Are you sure you hate clans?

Anyways, the individual game will still remain if such updates were implemented.
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#19
waheera1
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God how tired I am of hearing about clans. My favorite part of Runescape is its primary focus on individual play and individual accomplishment.


play an rpg then, not an mmorpg.


Um,no? I like interacting with people. I don't mind competing with people. I like to achieve things with other people trying to do the same. I like that I'm not forced into group activities like you are in WoW. I'm just very, very over hearing about clans when I don't think that many people are even in them.

The community opinion seems to be if you don't agree with the community opinion you need to quit our game.



How often do you use a clan chat? I think you have a very narrow view of what a clan is, rather than the definition Jagex seems to use. In interacting with people, i think you utilize clan features almost every time you play.

Jagex have claimed, repeatedly the last Q&A sessions that they wish for 50% quest / skilling time in our runescape play, and 50% "other activities", that leaves minigames, D&D and clan activities as something Jagex publicly asserts should take half your ingame runescape time. They also advertise the p2p game to have 25 000 hours of p2p content. I can easily show you 25 000 hours of quests (without guides obviously) and skilling. Show me 12500 hours of minigames and clan activities? Our clan updates are overdue.

If you are tired hearing about 50% of the game you play, haven't you become either selfish, or grown away from the game? I'd say those are pretty clear reasons to consider rpgs that advertise their games more towards your liking. Many allow you to chat with others, but not interact directly other than through trade. They have IRC channels, official forums etc. where you can get your "interaction". G

oing by your incessant complaints about some aspect in almost every topic, you might wanna step back and think about your gaming experience, and your tip.it "interaction" before posting your usual unfounded one-line complaints. You can't neglect runescape in your own terms, because they contradict with what Jagex state they will provide you.

Based on your posts on the tip.it forums the last couple of months, It seems you do wish to play an rpg, but an rpg where you can chat to other people. That is not the MMORPG gameplay Jagex advertises itself as. Your complaints are unreasonable, you know what you've signed up to play, you want something else. If I continually complain about the lack of RWT opportunities within runescape, and whine about it at every opportunity, wouldn't you tell me to find myself a different game to play?

sorry, asserting yourself in a victim's role "told by the community to quit". it's very unbecoming, especially considering what runescape actually describes itself to be.


First up, as well written as the article was, I have to disagree. I will start by saying that I am well aware of how the removal of the old wilderness had a negative impact on pking clans, while free trade affected the methods of rewarding players in all types of clan etc. I am also a clan member (skilling, since I find little pleasure in killing other players under a torrent of abuse).

My prime grievance with the suggestions in the article are that they are exclusive and divisive. This seems a little bizarre since most clans pride themselves on a sense of inclusion for their members and are often keen to recruit from outside their clan base. I could understand the grievance if the current content updates were entirely incompatible with clan gameplay, but there are numerous examples to support the statement that this is just not the case. In order for an update to be successful as a clan event, it need not be something that only clans can partake in - easily proven by the various boss-hunting and minigame events held on a daily basis across runescape. Whether these types of event are to your rarefied taste or not is practically irrelevant in this debate since that is not the moot point.

A further issue I have is with the suggestion of reward systems for clans. In what way is the opinion of a 100-strong clan more valid than the separate views of 100 individual players? Must the individuals acquiesce to the desires of the clan and thus be penalised without access to the clan-specific rewards? Are they then to be effectively FORCED into a clan to achieve fulfillment of those aspects of the game? Even a system that rewards the players who turn up to the most events has flaws, such as being discriminatory through timezone difficulties. Simply because I cannot attend clan events alongside the strong foreign contingent in my clan, should I then be the one destined to perpetually pick up the mushroom potatoes at kree? What incentive then exists for me? Should I join a clan based in my timezone just to get the rewards, even though I have many friends across the world?

Now onto tortilliachip's responses above:
Since when was interacting with other players a "clan feature"? I'm pretty sure individuals were around before any clans were created, so logic must surely dictate (in this peculiar instance) that clans in fact utilise "solo features" in their interaction. - This for the most part is a flippant comment, but you need to be a lot more clear with your first assertion if you want me to accept it as valid.

Next up: 50% of other activities, as you rightly point out, can be anything that is not specifically definable under the "skilling" or "questing" headers. That does in fact leave a vast array of events that could be done if one so chose, but there is no specific REQUIREMENT that any of them should be clan specific. Just because there may not be the supposed 12500 hours of minigame and clan content currently, there is no stipulation anywhere stated above or on Jagex's boards that half of that must be clan specific. If a minigame is created that can be played with both a solo AND clan setup then surely that is a better option than the blinkered approach of "CLANS RULE, GIVE US UPDATES"...

And now to the misconception about MMORPG v RPG. A quick Wikipedia search will give you a working definition of the two genres, but suffice to say there is no mention anywhere that MMORPG = Clan gameplay. All it stipulates is that it is a Massively Multiplayer *points to current game player counter on RS homepage*, Online *obvious enough, I should think*, Role Playing *again self-explanatory* Game . The extent to which you apply any of these terms is open to your own interpretation of the game. How much you want to interact with other players is not defined by the fact that you have to do it. Whilst you will not even come close to the level of enjoyment a community (NOT clan, there is a difference) player will achieve if you play solo, there is no specific requirement to do so. (By Community player I refer to the kind of person who is sociable, helpful, friendly etc, rather than indulging in a specific community within a clan where such qualities are just as essential) The Role Playing aspect is also up to you: if you want to pretend you're a Templar Knight crusading against the forces of darkness, then by all means you can. Similarly if you just enjoy the medieval setting as the extent of your Role Playing, that is equally acceptable. To assert that someone should not play a MMORPG if they do not approve of clans etc is as equally closed-minded as the idea that clans are a bad thing. If I have misunderstood this, then by all means enlighten me with the "MMORPG gameplay Jagex advertises itself as".

Whatever the quality of his other commentary, Me_Hate_Libs does have a point: he disagrees with the general concensus on clans and is therefore being ridiculed and having to suffer the suggestion that he's the wrong kind of player for a MMORPG.

I would like to reiterate before the close that I AM a clan member and I do NOT have a problem with them at all. I do however have a problem with the idea that people should be forced to play the game in a way that suits the clans and nobody else. The sandbox element of runescape is exactly the thing that has kept so many players enthralled over the years, to restrict their imagination and freedom in such a way could well do more damage than good.

#20
Jennybeen
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Jennybeen

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While I would not be opposed to a more developed clan system (although not very interested myself), I would not like it to come at the expense of the current clan chat system. With most clans on mmorpgs you can only be a member of one clan at a time. You become labelled as playerX of clan Y. I like in RS that you can easily jump between them, seeing who is online and if there are any interesting discussions happening in any of them, without being tied to any specific one.




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