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A Second Bonus Week


Grimy_Bunyip

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The thread was made by a player, per request of Mod Fnord.

Looks like Mod Fnord is bent on a second bonus week.

He's just sitting around the thread looking for advice.

Not much info from Mod Mark H, he's mostly on the defensive responding to fire against jagex community management

 

The thread itself seems to favor a resource-skill or non-buyable bonus week, or anything in order to reduce economic impact.

 

I believe I have copied and pasted all the Jmod quotes, but you won't find too much info there.

 

A second bonus week does look inevitable, but I'd imagine it will be hard to say what exactly Jagex intends.

 

[spoiler=Mod Fnord]

Just flying in for a quick comment.

 

You guys are fast!

 

I will be coming in for a more in-depth look later, but I think the fact you guys want to get in with some positive ideas is very telling.

 

Thank you, again.

 

Take care,

Mod Fnord

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

Mod Mark is a cool guy.

 

He works hard in CM.

 

But he is right. We are caught between the two positions.

 

I have come to terms with the fact that nothing I do will please everyone. So i work hard to make what I do the best it can be, to take on thoughts and feedback, and to work on making the best content I can.

 

I'm not perfect.

 

But I do try. We all do.

 

But it can be hard when you are told that you do not try. That your efforts can be ignored. It can be hard.

 

I appreciate the guys who spoke with me, and started this thread. They came at the issue, as they saw it, with their good analysis. And they turned it into an effort to find suggestions and solutions should we ever do this again in future.

 

When I spoke to them, it was a telling moment. Because there was an understanding. That us guys over here are not mean guys who want to ruin your fun. That we do work very hard on this. And most of our emotion goes into it, because we do want you to like it.

 

Imagine if you wrote a poem for class/university. Imagine putting your heart into it. Imagine after reciting it half the room telling you how it was the worst poem ever. It can be awfully disheartening.

 

Criticise updates with an eye to that. Find compromises. Think of suggestions and constructive ideas. These will always have our ear, and we will always bear them in mind.

 

Ultimatums or all or nothings or just plain nastiness leaves a bitter taste.

 

Anyway, I shall pop in later, maybe tomorrow. I am saving all these comments (relevant ones) to my disc, just in case.

 

 

Take care

Mod Fnord

 

--------------------------------

 

Saburwolf4

In all things, Andrew has the final say.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Mod Fnord.

 

 

 

[spoiler=Mod Mark H]

I would like to know why my post was quoted, I'm not quite sure I see what I am saying that means RS is "doomed" or what have you. ;)

 

Also, Killirancelo, what exactly gives the impression I have never played the game or never will? And what exactly are my "troll" comments?

 

~ MMH ~

 

----------------------------------------------

 

Killirancelo,

 

Well, sorry you feel that way about my posts. I've always taken time to discuss issues with players, even if we tend to disagree from a gamer's perspective, even to the point of talking about an issue when other members of staff focus on other areas.

 

I have never intended to demean others opinion's, if you are referring to the post I made about the Jad requirement for strykewyrms then I feel you have taken my reply in a way that was not intended.

 

(I feel your decisions on my posting style are a bit too influenced by that singluar event as well).

 

As for "mocking" posters, unless it is towards a rule-breaking who has clearly deserved it, any "mocking" is done in jest and in a light hearted manner.

 

If I posted in the way you are suggesting, I don't think I would have worked at Jagex for quite so long as I have.

 

I'm just sorry to see you to seem to have created this opinion of me.

 

~ MMH ~

 

-------------------------------------

 

This thread doesn't need to be locked.

 

I've spoken with Mod Fnord and it is in response to an in-game conversation. With no other direct manner to put the idea across, I think it's fine.

 

It probably belongs in another forum, but given the current forum climate I think it's fine to stay here.

 

Not to mention, I think it's a well reasoned, constructive and respectful thread. It might serve as a good example.

 

~ MMH ~

 

------------------------------------

 

 

Killirancelo,

 

With regards to my comment on opinions.

 

See, this is why I asked why my post was quoted here with zero context.

 

IN the thread I made that post, a lot of people were making their opinions sound like *fact*.

 

"Jagex is doing this because of X"

"Mod Fnord doesn't know about _____"

"This will ruin X and Y and only caters to _____"

 

My post was a reminder that opinions are *opinions* not facts.

 

I am sure there are some staff who have an opinion on the double XP weekend that others do not share, ultimately this decision has been made by the people in Jagex who make such decisions.

 

My attitude is not an uncaring one, I wouldn't be working in Community Management if I didn't care. But I also have a job of telling people what they don't want to hear.

 

Now I could be a sugar coated, fluffy sparkles moderator and beat around the bush. But I prefer to do things as I always have, that is to get straight to the point and be very blunt.

 

I think that's fairer on everybody else, it's me being honest to myself and gets to the point a lot faster.

 

On a personal level, I don't have a problem with the bonus XP weekend because I don't see the harm in it. I trust the people who consider things like the economy, I think that there is a certain amount of "Oh man, that's really too bad. Sorry dude" in any MMORPG and that bonuses like this do not degrade a game.

 

I hold a similar opinion whenever we bring out a new training method that people believe "makes things too easy".

 

I do not play RuneScape for a sense of achievement. I play it for fun, this bonus XP will help me do more fun things quicker.

 

BUT, this is my *personal* opinion as a gamer and is based on my gaming style. I agree not everybody is the same and can understand why some people don't like the idea.

 

~ MMH ~

 

----------------------------------

 

Edited that part Nygu, as it gave the wrong impression. I wasn't trying to suggest other Jagex Mods were like that, but mods on other forums.

 

Mod Emilee is definitely not sugar coated. She is as blunt as a hammer when she needs to be. :P

 

~ MMH ~

 

---------------------------------

 

Lol. What makes you think I have a family?

 

I'm not even in my mid-twenties dude. :P

 

I don't think RuneScape was ever "meant" as a hardcore XP grind, rather that is how many players chose to play it a long time ago and it has got rolled up in that.

 

I think there are a lot of casual elements to RuneScape, but there is a hardcore side to.

 

It is difficult blending the two. The bonus XP weekend *can* benefit both, yes it might be a bit unfair on those who have spent charms already or are away that weekend but there is an element of "Oh man, sorry dude. Bad timing. :(" in most MMORPGs. It's difficult to avoid (notice I say difficult not impossible).

 

~ MMH ~

 

--------------------------------

 

Finally, and this is part of a broader topic, with regards to player opinion affecting the game.

 

How many times have we listened to feedback, only to have the other half of the playing community tell us we shouldn't have listened?

 

Jagex can never win. We don't listen to feedback and we are "arrogant idiots who never listen to what the players want" and when we do listen to feedback we are "pandering babysitters who want to play barbie horse adventure".

 

See our position?

 

Of course we value player opinion and feedback. But the buck has to stop with us, specifically the people whose full time job it is to make these decisions.

 

We do listen to feedback and carefully consider things, but sometimes we just have to say "Sorry guys, we're still moving forward with this one".

 

I don't know what's happening specifically with the bonus XP weekend, but I am talking in general terms.

 

~ MMH ~

 

----------------------------------

 

Firstly,

 

Can we all try to stop using "we" when we really mean "I and other likeminded players". ;)

 

"We" implies all of the RS playerbase and not all players agree. ;)

 

---

 

Moe Is 4210,

 

Like above, try to remember that not *all* players are against this weekend. Many are looking forward to it, quite eagerly.

 

Like I said, the buck has to stop with us. We take on feedback and opinions, but we still need to make the final call.

 

---

 

Angels and D,

 

Keep the personal insults out of it mate. You know that's not going to fly.

 

~ MMH ~

 

---------------------------------------

 

Yes Pro Pked, we should get this thread back on subject. I must admit that is my fault.

 

So, let's move discussion back to the compromised offered by Brummyboy and others.

 

~ MMH ~

 

-------------------------------------

 

Saburwolf4,

 

Firstly, I totally respect that you love the "slow play" aspect of RuneScape.

 

Andrew made the game but he also knows it does need to evolve a little bit with time. Nothing can stay the same forever, things that do tend to become extinct.

 

I don't think it was anybody's intention to have such a slow/grind based game. I think the goal of RuneScape has always been about "fun" and that's a very subjective topic for many people.

 

I believe RuneScape will always be one of the slower games out there, but it's slow pace probably does put a lot of people off. I know it puts me off a little bit and I think it's a great game.

 

We have made some changes over time to speed a few things up here and there, this weekend is pretty cut down compared to how most MMOs do "bonus XP" weekends; The bonus degrades, it's only a set number of hours, etc.

 

I want to word this all as sympathetically as I can. I know this is a big deal for many player's out there and not everybody will understand why it's being done or like it.

 

~ MMH ~

 

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I don't want to be cheap but I hope there's another bonus weekend, I have charms for 96 summon but if it comes around then I could just get 99 summon for the same cost =P~

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I don't want to be cheap but I hope there's another bonus weekend, I have charms for 96 summon but if it comes around then I could just get 99 summon for the same cost =P~

ugh between 99 herblore, farming, and summoning, I'm totally against another bonus week.

What other skill could I possibly train? I suppose fletching with broad arrows or construction with mahogany planks.

But neither are Ideal solutions.

 

Herblore and Summoning gained alot of new 99's that week.

Time to switch things up, and redistribute this to a few other skill capes.

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A second bonus weekend? That would be nice.

 

I don't see how people are against this though. It's not like you're forced to participate in those. <_<

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If there is one, I'm so gonna just smith haha. I ought to work on summoning, but I'm lacking in charms at the moment.

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A second bonus weekend? That would be nice.

 

I don't see how people are against this though. It's not like you're forced to participate in those. <_<

You effectively participate in the bonus exp weekends even if you don't log in! As players and merchants alike preparing for the the economy fluctuates highly. Easily buyable stuff becomes unbuyable even at max. Things like herbs and summoning seconds become not only difficult to buy but due to the way the game works almost impossible to collect yourself in the time frame. Training spots for collecting skills like woodcutting and mining also become full. The bonus exp weekends have huge impacts on the game its not just a case of not taking part if you don't agree with it, you have to bear the impact regardless.

 

In my opinion the only skills that should be trained during bonus exp weekend is as follows:

Attack

Strength

Defence

Constitution

Ranging

Magic

Runecrafting

Agility

Theiving

Slayer

Hunter

Mining

Fishing

Firemaking

Woodcutting

Farming

 

Also the bonus exp should have a max limit for each skill and another overall max for bonus exp. Something like a maximum of 5m exp bonus and 500k exp in any particular skill. I havnt really thought specifics on this.

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"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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A second bonus weekend? That would be nice.

 

I don't see how people are against this though. It's not like you're forced to participate in those. <_<

You have never participated in one, so you clearly don't know the problems that come with it, even without participating in the event.

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Just want to point out that this is old from the week or 2 surrounding the bonus exp weekend. As far as I can tell there has been no talk leaked about any more specifics for bonus exp weekends since then.

R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

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[snip!]

 

Limiting the exp gain at a capped amount kind of makes the whole bonus week pointless while still adversely affecting short term economy as you explained to such detail in the same exact post. :/

If you read my post again you will see several skills missing from the list, ones I consider buyable and thus excluded from the bonus weekend. The capped amount would entice people to train a variety of skills rather than grinding one particular one too so will spread the demand for stuff out.

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Mercifull <3 Suzi

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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I absolutely do not want another bonus exp weekend. It's so stressful to have to worry about whether or not I should hoard my charms in anticipation of one. I would just really rather not spend two or three weeks grinding for charms and buying up seconds and shards after the announcement.

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[snip!]

 

Limiting the exp gain at a capped amount kind of makes the whole bonus week pointless while still adversely affecting short term economy as you explained to such detail in the same exact post. :/

If you read my post again you will see several skills missing from the list, ones I consider buyable and thus excluded from the bonus weekend. The capped amount would entice people to train a variety of skills rather than grinding one particular one too so will spread the demand for stuff out.

 

Oh no, I took note of that. But I think you're being a bit nearsighted. You don't think that these non-buyable skills you listed still won't consume items from production? Food, herbs, potions, chins, arrows, weapons, armor, runes, feathers, etc...

 

The impact on the economy will still exist. Thinking it won't is, forgive me, thinking only in the mindset of a pure skiller. And if you're going to impact the economy at all, I'd rather everyone have a shot and not just those some exclusive set of people happen to disdain because they're 'buyable'.

 

You're not the only one who feels this way by any means. The rants forum were filled with similar sentiments on the RSOF. But I'm sorry, this feels like the "I hate buyable 99 capes" argument dressed up in economic excuses.

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Great... its in 1800+ only.

 

I hope they don't do this in F2P... and leave it as a "members only" feature. I think I'm going to buy as many limpwurt roots and water talismans as possible if it seems they'll do another soon.

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I agree with you Lady Ninane i'm actually against the bonus exp weekend full stop, but we have to accept that Jagex want to do another one so my suggestions were more to do with damage limitation than any self centred thoughts about being anti buyable 99s.

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"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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Darn im not sure what to think of this, i thoroughly enjoyed the last bonus week, it was something special and a real community event (everyone was preparing and getting ready for the big day). There were some bad side effects as herblore and summoning being unfairly quick to train (there's been plenty good advice on this: experience cap instead of degrading multiplier, summoning double exp charm drops instead of regular charms).

 

Anyway what mostly puts me off is that theyre thinking of doing another so soon! i would really like a bonus weekend every Christmas or any other special day (rs birthday for example) but multiple each year is overdoing it in my opinion.

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Not needed, why would jagex put a double exp gain in a game with high-scores? In my eyes, it ruins the whole competitive atmosphere that RS has. -.-

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I absolutely do not want another bonus exp weekend. It's so stressful to have to worry about whether or not I should hoard my charms in anticipation of one. I would just really rather not spend two or three weeks grinding for charms and buying up seconds and shards after the announcement.

I think they said they'd do something different with summoning if they had another bonus xp weekend; I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the situation with summoning was pretty unbalanced.

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I agree with you Lady Ninane i'm actually against the bonus exp weekend full stop, but we have to accept that Jagex want to do another one so my suggestions were more to do with damage limitation than any self centred thoughts about being anti buyable 99s.

 

You should write off farming from you list then...

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Not needed, why would jagex put a double exp gain in a game with high-scores? In my eyes, it ruins the whole competitive atmosphere that RS has. -.-

 

Explain? Seeing as how everyone has an equal shot at the double exp during this period of time, the competitiion is not unfairly distributed. Anyone who has a 99 and a rank in it can continue training it on double exp day to stay the same distance ahead of the people underneath them as they were before the double exp weekend, or simply get a one up and train another skill for double exp.

 

Other than it being hard to buy materials off the GE, there is no downside to this. People who dislike the idea are simply very self-minded. So far I've seen "Well I won't be able to afford or buy anything off the GE!" and "I don't want to be stressed about having to collect materials so I can train the skill of choice on the double exp weekend!"

 

Tough. If you want the exp in that skill of choice, you'll find a way to train it on the weekend, otherwise you train something else. What "stresses" you out (something that is not mandatory but you seem to think it is) will help out many other people in the process. There's no need to be greedy.

 

And this is someone talking who has many, many 99s. I don't care if it "devalues" my 99s. Why should I have reason to be so bitter and unfriendly towards an idea that makes unbearable grinding just a little more bearable?

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Not needed, why would jagex put a double exp gain in a game with high-scores? In my eyes, it ruins the whole competitive atmosphere that RS has. -.-

 

Explain? Seeing as how everyone has an equal shot at the double exp during this period of time, the competitiion is not unfairly distributed. Anyone who has a 99 and a rank in it can continue training it on double exp day to stay the same distance ahead of the people underneath them as they were before the double exp weekend, or simply get a one up and train another skill for double exp.

 

Other than it being hard to buy materials off the GE, there is no downside to this. People who dislike the idea are simply very self-minded. So far I've seen "Well I won't be able to afford or buy anything off the GE!" and "I don't want to be stressed about having to collect materials so I can train the skill of choice on the double exp weekend!"

 

Tough. If you want the exp in that skill of choice, you'll find a way to train it on the weekend, otherwise you train something else. What "stresses" you out (something that is not mandatory but you seem to think it is) will help out many other people in the process. There's no need to be greedy.

 

And this is someone talking who has many, many 99s. I don't care if it "devalues" my 99s. Why should I have reason to be so bitter and unfriendly towards an idea that makes unbearable grinding just a little more bearable?

 

I don't believe it devalues 99s, I believe that it is unnecessary, RS has gone for 10 years without a double EXP weekend, it just seems, well, pointless and in a way, insulting to people who grinded those levels before this; obviously new content introduces new ways of training that is faster, but that is new content, where as this is a one-off weekend.

 

When dungeoneering was released, there was a huge runecrafting glitch, allowing people to get huge amounts of EXP in a short amount of time, this was promptly fixed and even given a rollback.

 

How is that different from the double EXP weekends?

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Not needed, why would jagex put a double exp gain in a game with high-scores? In my eyes, it ruins the whole competitive atmosphere that RS has. -.-

 

Explain? Seeing as how everyone has an equal shot at the double exp during this period of time, the competitiion is not unfairly distributed. Anyone who has a 99 and a rank in it can continue training it on double exp day to stay the same distance ahead of the people underneath them as they were before the double exp weekend, or simply get a one up and train another skill for double exp.

 

Other than it being hard to buy materials off the GE, there is no downside to this. People who dislike the idea are simply very self-minded. So far I've seen "Well I won't be able to afford or buy anything off the GE!" and "I don't want to be stressed about having to collect materials so I can train the skill of choice on the double exp weekend!"

 

Tough. If you want the exp in that skill of choice, you'll find a way to train it on the weekend, otherwise you train something else. What "stresses" you out (something that is not mandatory but you seem to think it is) will help out many other people in the process. There's no need to be greedy.

 

And this is someone talking who has many, many 99s. I don't care if it "devalues" my 99s. Why should I have reason to be so bitter and unfriendly towards an idea that makes unbearable grinding just a little more bearable?

 

I don't believe it devalues 99s, I believe that it is unnecessary, RS has gone for 10 years without a double EXP weekend, it just seems, well, pointless and in a way, insulting to people who grinded those levels before this; obviously new content introduces new ways of training that is faster, but that is new content, where as this is a one-off weekend.

 

When dungeoneering was released, there was a huge runecrafting glitch, allowing people to get huge amounts of EXP in a short amount of time, this was promptly fixed and even given a rollback.

 

How is that different from the double EXP weekends?

You're comparing the rc glitch in dungeoneering to the exp weekend? Really?

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Not needed, why would jagex put a double exp gain in a game with high-scores? In my eyes, it ruins the whole competitive atmosphere that RS has. -.-

 

Explain? Seeing as how everyone has an equal shot at the double exp during this period of time, the competitiion is not unfairly distributed. Anyone who has a 99 and a rank in it can continue training it on double exp day to stay the same distance ahead of the people underneath them as they were before the double exp weekend, or simply get a one up and train another skill for double exp.

 

Other than it being hard to buy materials off the GE, there is no downside to this. People who dislike the idea are simply very self-minded. So far I've seen "Well I won't be able to afford or buy anything off the GE!" and "I don't want to be stressed about having to collect materials so I can train the skill of choice on the double exp weekend!"

 

Tough. If you want the exp in that skill of choice, you'll find a way to train it on the weekend, otherwise you train something else. What "stresses" you out (something that is not mandatory but you seem to think it is) will help out many other people in the process. There's no need to be greedy.

 

And this is someone talking who has many, many 99s. I don't care if it "devalues" my 99s. Why should I have reason to be so bitter and unfriendly towards an idea that makes unbearable grinding just a little more bearable?

 

I don't believe it devalues 99s, I believe that it is unnecessary, RS has gone for 10 years without a double EXP weekend, it just seems, well, pointless and in a way, insulting to people who grinded those levels before this; obviously new content introduces new ways of training that is faster, but that is new content, where as this is a one-off weekend.

 

When dungeoneering was released, there was a huge runecrafting glitch, allowing people to get huge amounts of EXP in a short amount of time, this was promptly fixed and even given a rollback.

 

How is that different from the double EXP weekends?

 

You're comparing the rc glitch in dungeoneering to the exp weekend? Really?

 

I am, how are they any different? In both you gain(ed) lots of EXP in a short amount of time with it being a one-off(unless, of course, they make another weekend.)

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