"Everbody Draw Muhammad" Day

[fakeitormakeit2]

Admin Edit: Let's keep this a discussion of the day, and not a "lulz, lets look at my crappy disrespectful paint drawing for the lulz" topic. I've removed the page of pictures, because some of our users *do* find them offensive. See the bottom of page 3 for more info - Das - Tip.it Admin

 

So I'm sure many people are aware of the censorship of South Park's Episodes 201 in which even the name of the prophet Muhammad of Islam was bleeped out . In Islam there are a few hadith (Islamic textual rules) which state one is forbidden to depict Muhammad so the authors were threatened by radical Muslims that if they showed an image of Muhammad they would be killed similarly to Theo van Gogh. Other religious figures as commonly depicted often mockingly but I'm not too aware of any other extremists who murder on the grounds of depiction of a prophet. Personally in my religion we depict our religious figures icons because 3D figures such as statues are seen to be interrelated and borrowed from paganistic art which detracts from the holiness of an image of a holy being, but I don't go around smashing crucifixes and killing sculptors. I see Everybody Draw Muhammad Day as a necessary evil to protest the hysteria of avoiding depicting Muhammad at all costs. I do find it disrespectful but nonetheless one cannot extend a law not even in the holy book of a religion to be incorporated into a set of secular laws in a country where the religion is a minority. I find it extremely shameful that Comedy Central would censor Muhammad, which was an important political statement on the part of the authors of South Park. I find American responses to Islam too extreme on the spectrum; there are those who say the whole middle east should be bombed and there are those who [like Comedy Central] submit to the demands of radicals. I defend religion and its validity, as well as religion should be respected by even those who do not worship; this however transcends respect especially when you're threatened to either follow religious rules or be killed.

 

Is Everybody Draw Muhammad Day a valid protest against religious extremism or an immature mockery of an over-harassed religion? Please try to keep the discussion intelligent and this has nothing to do with arguing if God exists or not so please don't start a theist/atheist flame war.

 

Description on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Draw_Mohammed_Day

[Arcantica]

There's simply a lack of respect in the world these days. People should have respect for other people's cultures and ways no matter how much it conflicts with your own beliefs or practices.

 

 

What reason would anyone have to draw such an image other than being immature, or trying to start conflict?

 

 

 

I'd like to see these people go over to the middle east and try to do that stuff. Reminds me of all those Nazi skinheads who like to march around, (under police protection of course).

[Nadril]

I think it's a totally justified protest. I hate that Comedy Central caved in to the scare tactic that those extremists sent to Matt and Trey. It's clearly wrong for people to get murdered over drawing something and I think it's a great protest to show the extremists that people aren't afraid of them.

[PereGrin]

I would draw him. They try to kill people from other religions, with the only reason being difference of religion, so why not make thier religion the laughingstock of religions. Islam itself would be fine if they kicked out all the idiots who try to do this. All the terrorist groups would lose thier huge recruitment pool if the leaders of Islam "excommunicated" these groups (Hamas, Al Qaeda, etc.). This is not the dark ages, religions dont go killing people for saying "nay". Islam is no exception.

 

On a side note, Israel is passing out gas masks to thier citizens. There is a very good chance that Israel has nukes, so it will be interesting to see what happens to Damascus, Beirut, Amman, Tehran, Riyadh, and Mecca if Israel gets attacked. Heck, if I was in Israel's position, and I got attacked, within 24 hours Temple Mount would be a site of new construction, and none of those cities would still exist.

[Skull]

I think it's a totally justified protest. I hate that Comedy Central caved in to the scare tactic that those extremists sent to Matt and Trey. It's clearly wrong for people to get murdered over drawing something and I think it's a great protest to show the extremists that people aren't afraid of them.

The problem is that it's offensive to the moderate Muslims as well as the extremists.

 

Edit: also applicable to the above. You can't forget that extremists make up a small percentage of Muslims, so you're essentially offending a bunch of people who haven't done anything other than follow what they believe in.

[Giordano]

There's simply a lack of respect in the world these days. People should have respect for other people's cultures and ways no matter how much it conflicts with your own beliefs or practices.

 

 

What reason would anyone have to draw such an image other than being immature, or trying to start conflict?

 

 

 

I'd like to see these people go over to the middle east and try to do that stuff. Reminds me of all those Nazi skinheads who like to march around, (under police protection of course).

But that's the very thing now isn't it? The reason why we can do it here and not over there? The freedom, perhaps? Plus, Nardil's point is too strong to ignore: "It's clearly wrong for people to get murdered over drawing something". It's absolutely true now isn't it?

 

And a better show of respect is Muslims who are against that to not watch it. They should respect the ideas and freedoms of other people.

[Aiel]

people have a right to freedom of speech and expression. I dont care if your religion says drawing this prophet or that deity is disrespectful, if I am not a member of your religion I am not bound by your laws.

[Nadril]

I think it's a totally justified protest. I hate that Comedy Central caved in to the scare tactic that those extremists sent to Matt and Trey. It's clearly wrong for people to get murdered over drawing something and I think it's a great protest to show the extremists that people aren't afraid of them.

The problem is that it's offensive to the moderate Muslims as well as the extremists.

 

Edit: also applicable to the above. You can't forget that extremists make up a small percentage of Muslims, so you're essentially offending a bunch of people who haven't done anything other than follow what they believe in.

 

Everything gets mocked, it doesn't mean you're being disrespectful to them.

[Riku3220]

There's simply a lack of respect in the world these days. People should have respect for other people's cultures and ways no matter how much it conflicts with your own beliefs or practices.

 

 

What reason would anyone have to draw such an image other than being immature, or trying to start conflict?

 

 

 

I'd like to see these people go over to the middle east and try to do that stuff. Reminds me of all those Nazi skinheads who like to march around, (under police protection of course).

But that's the very thing now isn't it? The reason why we can do it here and not over there? The freedom, perhaps? Plus, Nardil's point is too strong to ignore: "It's clearly wrong for people to get murdered over drawing something". It's absolutely true now isn't it?

 

And a better show of respect is Muslims who are against that to not watch it. They should respect the ideas and freedoms of other people.

But what about the Muslims who aren't doing anything wrong? It's still offensive to them. Muhammad isn't supposed to be drawn because they don't want him to be seen in a glorious (or derogatory) way. Even if you do have the freedom to do this you're no better than the WBC for using your freedoms to spout hate.

[Nadril]

Me thinks you need to look up the difference between hate and parody riku.

[Riku3220]

Me thinks you need to look up the difference between hate and parody riku.

Is there really a need to devote a day to purposely drawing something that offends over 1 billion people, most of whom have done nothing wrong? Especially when a good handful of Americans greatly dislike Muslims.

[Giordano]

There's simply a lack of respect in the world these days. People should have respect for other people's cultures and ways no matter how much it conflicts with your own beliefs or practices.

 

 

What reason would anyone have to draw such an image other than being immature, or trying to start conflict?

 

 

 

I'd like to see these people go over to the middle east and try to do that stuff. Reminds me of all those Nazi skinheads who like to march around, (under police protection of course).

But that's the very thing now isn't it? The reason why we can do it here and not over there? The freedom, perhaps? Plus, Nardil's point is too strong to ignore: "It's clearly wrong for people to get murdered over drawing something". It's absolutely true now isn't it?

 

And a better show of respect is Muslims who are against that to not watch it. They should respect the ideas and freedoms of other people.

But what about the Muslims who aren't doing anything wrong? It's still offensive to them. Muhammad isn't supposed to be drawn because they don't want him to be seen in a glorious (or derogatory) way. Even if you do have the freedom to do this you're no better than the WBC for using your freedoms to spout hate.

You're right. I'm so blind. But we have reached a problem. You see, I follow the glorious Soraism and you have one of my Gods, Riku, plastered all over your profile. It is in my religion that you must not draw or show Riku as he is, for it is unholy and disrespectful to him, his follows, and the faith. Please remove those pictures of Great Riku off your signature and avatar.

 

 

 

So what makes Muhammad, Jesus, Riku, Nadril, or Pollock any different?

[Saru Inc]

There's simply a lack of respect in the world these days. People should have respect for other people's cultures and ways no matter how much it conflicts with your own beliefs or practices.

 

 

What reason would anyone have to draw such an image other than being immature, or trying to start conflict?

 

 

 

I'd like to see these people go over to the middle east and try to do that stuff. Reminds me of all those Nazi skinheads who like to march around, (under police protection of course).

 

 

Big whoop. Grow up. People mock my religion everyday, to each his own. If they don't like it thats fine, I don't really care. Muslims/anyone offended by this, grow up. (I can't wait to see the comics tomorrow produces XD)

[Skull]

There's simply a lack of respect in the world these days. People should have respect for other people's cultures and ways no matter how much it conflicts with your own beliefs or practices.

 

 

What reason would anyone have to draw such an image other than being immature, or trying to start conflict?

 

 

 

I'd like to see these people go over to the middle east and try to do that stuff. Reminds me of all those Nazi skinheads who like to march around, (under police protection of course).

But that's the very thing now isn't it? The reason why we can do it here and not over there? The freedom, perhaps? Plus, Nardil's point is too strong to ignore: "It's clearly wrong for people to get murdered over drawing something". It's absolutely true now isn't it?

 

And a better show of respect is Muslims who are against that to not watch it. They should respect the ideas and freedoms of other people.

But what about the Muslims who aren't doing anything wrong? It's still offensive to them. Muhammad isn't supposed to be drawn because they don't want him to be seen in a glorious (or derogatory) way. Even if you do have the freedom to do this you're no better than the WBC for using your freedoms to spout hate.

You're right. I'm so blind. But we have reached a problem. You see, I follow the glorious Soraism and you have one of my Gods, Riku, plastered all over your profile. It is in my religion that you must not draw or show Riku as he is, for it is unholy and disrespectful to him, his follows, and the faith. Please remove those pictures of Great Riku off your signature and avatar.

 

 

 

So what makes Muhammad, Jesus, Riku, Nadril, or Pollock any different?

Because you made that [cabbage] up 10 minutes ago and they made it up over a thousand years ago.

 

 

Also, this thread reeks of racism and elitism.

[The Dark Lord]

There's simply a lack of respect in the world these days. People should have respect for other people's cultures and ways no matter how much it conflicts with your own beliefs or practices.

 

It's certainly not respectful toward us when they brandish their scimitars and threaten to cut our throats.

 

Likewise, it's impossible not to offend other cultures because some cultures (i.e. our culture and theirs) are completely different. For example, it's offensive toward Western nations that Iran executes homosexuals or that Saudi Arabia practices Barbaric punishment for women who go outside social norms, but that's their culture. If they are in our country, our culture comes first, and they should respect it or leave. The same holds true if we visit their country. If it's against customs to kiss in public in Dubai, you should respect that custom and refrain from kissing in public. If you don't like that, simply leave Dubai. If they are offended that we practice freedom of speech (no matter how offensive it is), then they are free to leave our country at any time.

[Riku3220]

There's simply a lack of respect in the world these days. People should have respect for other people's cultures and ways no matter how much it conflicts with your own beliefs or practices.

 

 

What reason would anyone have to draw such an image other than being immature, or trying to start conflict?

 

 

 

I'd like to see these people go over to the middle east and try to do that stuff. Reminds me of all those Nazi skinheads who like to march around, (under police protection of course).

But that's the very thing now isn't it? The reason why we can do it here and not over there? The freedom, perhaps? Plus, Nardil's point is too strong to ignore: "It's clearly wrong for people to get murdered over drawing something". It's absolutely true now isn't it?

 

And a better show of respect is Muslims who are against that to not watch it. They should respect the ideas and freedoms of other people.

But what about the Muslims who aren't doing anything wrong? It's still offensive to them. Muhammad isn't supposed to be drawn because they don't want him to be seen in a glorious (or derogatory) way. Even if you do have the freedom to do this you're no better than the WBC for using your freedoms to spout hate.

You're right. I'm so blind. But we have reached a problem. You see, I follow the glorious Soraism and you have one of my Gods, Riku, plastered all over your profile. It is in my religion that you must not draw or show Riku as he is, for it is unholy and disrespectful to him, his follows, and the faith. Please remove those pictures of Great Riku off your signature and avatar.

 

 

 

So what makes Muhammad, Jesus, Riku, Nadril, or Pollock any different?

Perhaps fakeitormakeit would be able to explain it better than me seeing as I'm not Muslim. But I'm still not seeing a real valid reason for encouraging people to draw Muhammad. You'll say it's to show the extremists that we aren't afraid of them but it's just showing the rest of the Muslims that we probably hate them for being Muslim, which a lot of America already does.

 

It's certainly not respectful toward us when they brandish their scimitars and threaten to cut our throats.

You're taking what a couple thousand are saying and are applying it to all 1.5 billion Muslims, and you've got to realize that it's because we're doing this kind of crap. It's just a continuous cycle. "Oh they hate us? Well we'll hate them too."

[Giordano]

But that's the thing, religion is nothing special. No matter how the hell you look at it, it's just a overgrown, overzealous fanclub of Mohammad and his followers or Jesus and his disciples, or whatever. It just the same stuff as a Star Wars convention, but maybe more problematic sense they actually believe in it. This is why I absolutely love Pastafarianism. Just about anything can be a "religion" so how the hell can we give certain "ideas" privileges and not give all of them those same privileges? My Soraism and the God Riku should be treated the same as Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, whatever. Or, it should be considered a stupid idea because it's pointless to believe in Sora, Riku, Donald and Goofy but that would mean Christianity and Islam would be...stupid too. And that must be awfully horrible.

[stevepole]

This wasn't the first time Muhammad was censored on South Park. South Park as had three episodes featuring Muhammad, the first being "Super Best Friends" in like 2001 and it wasn't censored. The episode however has been removed from south park studio due to recent events and again in 2007 I think it was to mock the events of the dutch cartoonist but Comedy Central choose to censor that episode also. If you look into those past events (Theo Van Gogh & the Dutch cartoonist) it is easy to understand why they choose to censor the "201" episode.

[Skull]

But that's the thing, religion is nothing special. No matter how the hell you look at it, it's just a overgrown, overzealous fanclub of Mohammad and his followers or Jesus and his disciples, or whatever. It just the same stuff as a Star Wars convention, but maybe more problematic sense they actually believe in it. This is why I absolutely love Pastafarianism. Just about anything can be a "religion" so how the hell can we give certain "ideas" privileges and not give all of them those same privileges? My Soraism and the God Riku should be treated the same as Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, whatever. Or, it should be considered a stupid idea because it's pointless to believe in Sora, Riku, Donald and Goofy but that would mean Christianity and Islam would be...stupid too. And that must be awfully horrible.

I agree, but that's really not the issue at hand. The majority of people are using this as a way to express hatred towards a culture they don't understand, not to promote freedom of speech. The facebook page for it is a great example of this, despite the fact that it's 90% trolling. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Everybody-Draw-Mohammed-Day/121369914543425

 

I understand the principle of the "Draw Muhammad" day and although I find it unnecessary, if it was just simply drawing Muhammad I wouldn't care. That's not what it is though, it's an excuse to spread more intolerance especially against a religion that's already as horribly misunderstood as Islam.

[Saru Inc]

But that's the thing, religion is nothing special. No matter how the hell you look at it, it's just a overgrown, overzealous fanclub of Mohammad and his followers or Jesus and his disciples, or whatever. It just the same stuff as a Star Wars convention, but maybe more problematic sense they actually believe in it. This is why I absolutely love Pastafarianism. Just about anything can be a "religion" so how the hell can we give certain "ideas" privileges and not give all of them those same privileges? My Soraism and the God Riku should be treated the same as Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, whatever. Or, it should be considered a stupid idea because it's pointless to believe in Sora, Riku, Donald and Goofy but that would mean Christianity and Islam would be...stupid too. And that must be awfully horrible.

 

 

And thats the thinking I see in many atheist arguments. They are unable to see the merit in it. They don't believe in it, for any reason, and they go on about "why don't they just stop pretending" or "why don't they just realize God doesn't exist." That outlook on world religions reflects a very narrow minded and naive attitude. Because to them, their God (or in my case, my God) IS REAL. It doesn't matter if it does, or doesn't makes sense logically. And it is so aggravating to see Atheists trying to one-up religious people on their crusade to spread intelligence campaign. "you're a Buddhist, you're thoughts don't matter!" "You're Christian, you've been brainwashed into thinking abortion is bad! (Qeltar) Well... Uhh you're Atheistic, you've been brainwashed into thinking its not bad? The same argument works both ways, and its so stupid. Besides, why if I believe the same things my parents do, make me brainwashed? (Anyone remember my Marilyn Manson obsessiveness last year?) I looked around, and decided Christianity is where its at. I have very different views on it by my parents, but they've in no way brainwashed me. Nor, if I state my opinion, is it logical for you to assume I got that from my religious beliefs. If I don't infer, nor correlate the two, you have no right to as well.

 

 

*note* I am not meaning to flame you Pasta, you are welcome to your beliefs on Religious people. I am merely posting my beliefs, of Atheists.

[Buzzcut3]

I'd actually be interested to read an article on what some normal Muslim people think of the terrorist threats. Here, the Catholic priests who rape boys are seen as monsters (by any sane person), so it's also very likely that normal citizens think terrorist threats are monsterish too.

 

Likewise, it's impossible not to offend other cultures because some cultures (i.e. our culture and theirs) are completely different. For example, it's offensive toward Western nations that Iran executes homosexuals or that Saudi Arabia practices Barbaric punishment for women who go outside social norms, but that's their culture. If they are in our country, our culture comes first, and they should respect it or leave. The same holds true if we visit their country. If it's against customs to kiss in public in Dubai, you should respect that custom and refrain from kissing in public. If you don't like that, simply leave Dubai. If they are offended that we practice freedom of speech (no matter how offensive it is), then they are free to leave our country at any time.

 

Summed it up pretty well.

 

 

Some Muslims probably will be offended by this event, but if something like a "National Rape Your Girlfriend" day appeared on a Muslim site, what would we do? We'd be offended, we'd probably talk crap about it, but if civilians publicized a death threat, the first place they're going is jail. As far as I know, no one has been punished for those death threats on Trey and Matt, although feel free to post proof that I'm wrong in this.

[Giordano]

*note* I am not meaning to flame you Pasta, you are welcome to your beliefs on Religious people. I am merely posting my beliefs, of Atheists.

Well that's all good. Truthfully I don't care much about religion and what you do with it. But when people come and cry for theirs to be sheltered and get special treatment then we got some problems because where the hell's my Soraism National Holiday? You also bring a good point Saru; Christianity and Americans can be criticized beyond hell but if I or you say something stereotypical against a Muslim or a European we're racist bigot fat men.

Some Muslims probably will be offended by this event, but if something like a "National Rape Your Girlfriend" day appeared on a Muslim site, what would we do? We'd be offended, we'd probably talk crap about it, but if civilians publicized a death threat, the first place they're going is jail. As far as I know, no one has been punished for those death threats on Trey and Matt, although feel free to post proof that I'm wrong in this.

A better example would be "Draw Jesus sleeping with a man". That would really upset some people. I would laugh.

[Skull]

Because that is funny and it makes Jesus look like a bamf. It isn't really on the same level as a picture of Muhammad being [wagon] raped by a pig, at least not in my opinion.

[Saru Inc]

Bamf? First off, my mom would have a hear attack if she saw that. This is my point, while it does have its comedic value, it is offensive to me. But this is a free country, if I want to pray in the middle of the sidewalk, they have the right to post those posters on the walls of the sidewalk. It's not my problem if they don't have freedom of speech in whatever country they are in. (or freedom of drawing to be more exact...)

[Skull]

I guess as an Atheist I'm never going to understand this hatred between religions thing. [bleep] it, I'm going to sleep

 

 

Also, bamf = bad [wagon] mother [bleep]er, if that was why you put a question mark after it.