"Everbody Draw Muhammad" Day

[Skeptical]

It wasn't hateful speech. They were not supporting genocide.

 

Therefor, they have the right to say it. Whether or not I agree with what they said is a moot point.

[Alg]

The world would be infinitely better off without religion.

Correction. The world would be infinitely better off without intolerance. Or with more empathy.

[Skeptical]

The world would be infinitely better off without religion.

Correction. The world would be infinitely better off without intolerance. Or with more empathy.

 

Agreed. The world however, would be far better off without religion. It would be damn near perfect without intolerance.

[Danqazmlp]

I personally believe anybody should be allowed to practice whatever religion they want as long as it does not impose on the freedoms of another. Practising Islam is no problem to me as long as you do it peacefully. If a religion starts to promote violence then it should not be tolerated. Islam from what i have seen is split into two factions if you like. Extremists and rationalists. Rational muslims are fine, heck I have some friends who are. They will not be offended by a cartoon, you can even joke with them about it much like you could with jokes about other religions. The majority of them also have the same views as us that the extremists muslims are scum. They have twisted the words of their beliefs and will not think any other way.

[Guest Mrmegakirby]

^ Yeah.

 

Jokes can be made freely towards any religon. Why isn't this the same?

[Skeptical]

^ Yeah.

 

Jokes can be made freely towards any religon. Why isn't this the same?

 

It's a sensitive issue.

 

That's exactly why you see bumper stickers that say "Everything I need to know about Allah, I learned on 9/11."

[Perakp]

Comedy central is a band of muslimhaters who knew the best way to raise "awareness" against muslims would be to act scared of them.

That's my conspiracy theory.

[Rose_2_Pure]

Isn't it even more immature to make death threats and the like over something like a drawing, let alone a drawing by a "non-believer" , then it is to draw a picture to protest? Now both are immature, of course, but I believe by far that the former is superior in it's immaturity.

[das]

I've long fought for a more liberal, free and diverse off topic. This is where, I feel a line must be drawn.

 

While I'm not muslim, and find the pictures somewhat amusing, I did think that it was disrespectful to whatever muslim users we have, and as a result have removed all of the pictures making fun of Mohammed. I'm ALL for this being discussed as far as the day , what it means and the ethics of it, But I don't want to see members drawing custom pictures to partake in the day - effectively bashing a religion that finds a portrayal of him offensive. IF you have a screencap from southpark or a paper or something thats caused controversy leading up to this event and can use it to enhance the discussion It would be fine to post it. but otherwise It's classless and tasteless, and I think we're better than that. I believe we can handle the discussion fine we just need to be respectful of the diverse group of users on this forum, whether you agree with them - or not.

 

 

Any questions? I'll happily field them

 

~Das

[The Dark Lord]

Yeah, please remove the Jesus pictures as well. At least make everything equal. After all, we want to treat our users equally and fairly.

 

 

Thanks for yielding to the Islamofascists. I thought that you would have more integrity than that, but I guess not.

[das]

Yeah, please remove the Jesus pictures as well. At least make everything equal. After all, we want to treat our users equally and fairly.

 

 

Thanks for yielding to the Islamofascists. I thought that you would have more integrity than that, but I guess not.

 

 

Actually I did remove them on this topic,

 

I'm a christian, I was laughing, I saw the jesus pictures, And although i wasn't enraged like muslims get, I said "oh hey there, I guess I can relate in a way" - So I brought it up, we discussed it, and removed them from the thread.

 

 

Edit: Forgot the pic on page 2. now gone.

[The Dark Lord]

Actually, you left perhaps the most potentially offensive Jesus picture on this thread... The one that had the caption that read, "F your sins, I'm going home."

 

Honestly, I couldn't care two cents for that picture (and I thought that it was bloody hilarious), but if you're honestly trying to make this a less offensive environment for the religious community, you obviously aren't treating the Jesus pictures and the Muhammed pictures the same.

 

We both know why Tip.it removes Muhammed pictures. It's not really so much about not offending a minority on this forum. You remove them because you don't want some extremist schmuck to bomb something or send a death threat. In a way, you're yielding to these bastards.

 

EDIT: I just noticed that you removed the picture while I was typing this. Fair enough.

[das]

Actually, you left perhaps the most potentially offensive Jesus picture on this thread... The one that had the caption that read, "F your sins, I'm going home."

 

Honestly, I couldn't care two cents for that picture (and I thought that it was bloody hilarious), but if you're honestly trying to make this a less offensive environment for the religious community, you obviously aren't treating the Jesus pictures and the Muhammed pictures the same.

 

We both know why Tip.it removes Muhammed pictures. It's not really so much about not offending a minority on this forum. You remove them because you don't want some extremist schmuck to bomb something or send a death threat. In a way, you're yielding to these bastards.

 

EDIT: I just noticed that you removed the picture while I was typing this. Fair enough.

 

 

I think it's beyond illogical to get so worked up over a picture that you would be angry enough to cause emotional, physical or another type of harm to a human being. Like I said, I personally find the Mohammad pictures funny to an extent but I think it's objective to say that any pictures bashing Jesus, Mohammad, Budha or any deity for the lulz, is pretty disrespectful. I'm all for discussion of the subject and believe a good debate is fine but a line should be drawn It's not a matter of giving in, but making an effort to not alienate users by letting the majority pretty much for lack of better words Desecrate a minority's holy figure with offensive and to them - Blasphemous pictures.

 

I think we as a community - are better than that.

 

 

~Das

[Saru Inc]

Wow. I only posted the pic caused it always made me giggle. And to show if they can post that, why can't I post Muhammad pics? But I think you're going a bit overboard Rei...

[The Dark Lord]

My point's still valid.

 

To be quite honest, Off-Topic offends people in the same manner in which you have described on a regular basis. If you don't believe me, check out the religious flame wars on the atheism vs theism debates.

 

It's pretty blatantly obvious that the pictures are being censored because of the nutters that are threatening to kill people. The only way to counter extremism is with more extremism because extremists on this magnitude (the so-called "Islamofascists") cannot understand reason. I believe that a little non-violent extremism is very healthy for everyone. If that involves drawing some Muhammad pictures* in order to demonstrate our free speech and protest against those who wish to destroy our society, then so be it. The fact of the matter is that they can't kill us all. The only weapon that they have at their disposal is fear and a few RPGs.

 

*Of course, pictures involving a homosexual Muhammad molesting his 9 year old wife are a bit offensive. The same goes for Muhammad pictures involving the prophet getting raped by a pig. However, just drawing Muhammad out of protest should be allowed.

[das]

I'm not going to say I disagree with that, I think it's interesting from the christian standpoint the bible says you do not make god in an image - and technically You got God the father/son/holy ghost and yet it's accepted to have pictures of christ/god and not offend christians. Always found that interesting.

 

The problem is - while the pictures of Muhammad here started out harmless, they got progressively worse and while nothing was super offensive yet - this forum has the mentality of topping each other with more ballsy and more stupid things in order for laughs. It's better to just cut the crap now - then to have a bigger dilemma on our hand with super offensive images that get reports and people offended and trying to figure out what action may need to be taken.

 

If we got offensive pictures in other topics, send me a PM and i'll look into those topics, personally.

 

 

It's ashame to see a thoughtful - provoking topic turn into a complete and total "lulz" fest because people have no limits into how extreme they will go for the laughter - if anything i'm hoping to preserve the intellectual integrity of this topic and keep it from offending our users all the way from China to Africa.

 

~Das

[Saru Inc]

My point's still valid.

 

To be quite honest, Off-Topic offends people in the same manner in which you have described on a regular basis. If you don't believe me, check out the religious flame wars on the atheism vs theism debates.

 

It's pretty blatantly obvious that the pictures are being censored because of the nutters that are threatening to kill people. The only way to counter extremism is with more extremism because extremists on this magnitude (the so-called "Islamofascists") cannot understand reason. I believe that a little non-violent extremism is very healthy for everyone. If that involves drawing some Muhammad pictures* in order to demonstrate our free speech and protest against those who wish to destroy our society, then so be it. The fact of the matter is that they can't kill us all. The only weapon that they have at their disposal is fear and a few RPGs.

 

*Of course, pictures involving a homosexual Muhammad molesting his 9 year old wife are a bit offensive. The same goes for Muhammad pictures involving the prophet getting raped by a pig. However, just drawing Muhammad out of protest should be allowed.

 

 

I''m quite aware of the shameless flaming and animosity shown to Christians or even theists in general. Same with Conservatives, but I figure even if they don't believe what I believe, assuming they live in US, the same soldiers who died for my beliefs, died for theirs as well. Does it aggravate me where they pull crap "science proves Christians are stupid" or "if you hate illegal immigrants your a xenophobic bigot racist" sure does. But freedom is freedom, they deserve it just as much as I do.

[Orpheus]

More interestingly, I wonder why, in a different parallel, why Christians don't react like this to basically any Shin Megami Tensei game, the game series where Lucifer is portrayed as the good guy in most of the mainline games, and Yahweh/god and His angels want to subjugate humanity in a way similar to how Stalin handled things back in the day. Maybe the lack of extremists to this extreme just because of a cartoon?

[qeltar]

More interestingly, I wonder why, in a different parallel, why Christians don't react like this to basically any Shin Megami Tensei game, the game series where Lucifer is portrayed as the good guy in most of the mainline games, and Yahweh/god and His angels want to subjugate humanity in a way similar to how Stalin handled things back in the day.

There was a time when Christians were every bit as fanatical and violent as Islamic fundamentalists. Their religion has just been around longer.

 

A few hundred years ago people were routinely imprisoned or killed for "blasphemy". Only a few decades ago Catholics and Protestants were blowing each other up over issues very marginally less silly than cartoons.

 

The censorship in this thread is somewhat amusing. It illustrates the inherent tension in this issue, and the difficulty where reasonable people don't *want* to mock a religion, but want the *right* to mock a religion.

 

It also shows how some groups are able to control a population simply by whining that they are "offended", and the people in charge bend over backwards to their will. Never mind that these same individuals have absolutely no concern over the people *they* offend. For example, in another thread I got censored for making derogatory remarks about religion, likely because of complaints from people who made what I consider to be very offensive derogatory remarks about women -- which are still there.

 

The best solution is to tell those who are offended by something to read/watch/view something else. To their credit, this is what Wikipedia does with pretty much everything, *including* depictions of Muhammed.

[Orpheus]

It's all cyclical anyways. I personally just don't understand the need for violence over a mere depiction, but that's just my cynicism at work here.

[i_love_burritos]

More interestingly, I wonder why, in a different parallel, why Christians don't react like this to basically any Shin Megami Tensei game, the game series where Lucifer is portrayed as the good guy in most of the mainline games, and Yahweh/god and His angels want to subjugate humanity in a way similar to how Stalin handled things back in the day.

There was a time when Christians were every bit as fanatical and violent as Islamic fundamentalists. Their religion has just been around longer.

 

A few hundred years ago people were routinely imprisoned or killed for "blasphemy". Only a few decades ago Catholics and Protestants were blowing each other up over issues very marginally less silly than cartoons.

 

Yes Catholics and protestants in Ireland - that was in a very specific part of the world during a very specific time period. And yes, Islam as a defined religion is only around 1400 years old, probably the "youngest" religion. So maybe Islam is not yet acclimatised to the modern world, as much as Christianity was 300 - 400 years ago, or Judaism before that. So maybe, just for now, fundamental Islam belongs in the deserts of 6th Century Saudi Arabia. You could say the Old Testament has this, and has that, but Christians of 21st Century as far as I know do not practice stoning of homosexuals or the honor killing of women.

[Bouwzie]

If we aren't allowed to draw him, then nobody knows what he looks like, and thus they can't draw him?

[qeltar]

You could say the Old Testament has this, and has that, but Christians of 21st Century as far as I know do not practice stoning of homosexuals or the honor killing of women.

No, they just start unnecessary wars and blow up abortion clinics.

 

There are radical and evil people in *all* religions, because religion by its nature attracts absolutists and those who are looking for a higher excuse to do what they want. It's just easier to notice them in someone else's religion than one's own.

[i_love_burritos]

You could say the Old Testament has this, and has that, but Christians of 21st Century as far as I know do not practice stoning of homosexuals or the honor killing of women.

No, they just start unnecessary wars and blow up abortion clinics.

 

There are radical and evil people in *all* religions, because religion by its nature attracts absolutists and those who are looking for a higher excuse to do what they want. It's just easier to notice them in someone else's religion than one's own.

 

Haha, what ? And yes,of course absolutely to your second point.

[Skully]

^ Yeah.

 

Jokes can be made freely towards any religon. Why isn't this the same?

That's exactly why you see bumper stickers that say "Everything I need to know about Allah, I learned on 9/11."

 

Lmao, where can I get one of those?