Tip.It Times - 1st August 2010

[Vulxai]

I rather agree with Racheya's first article. People cannot help themselves but complain. They didn't take back the update, they postponed it until they got the bugs fixed. The update WILL come soon. Just relax. This update isn't going to change the game dramatically, it's an update to a pre-existing feature in the game. I can guarantee not everyone will soley be doing TT for the rest of their time, they do enjoy other parts of the game (or they wouldn't play), so why can't they just keep enjoying the game and wait a little bit? This is a game to enjoy yourself, relax, have some fun.

And what is wrong with complaing? Do you complain only when it is logical to every one every time?

 

Normally I don't complain (although I admit, I have made a few posts in the past week or so complaining about complaining (oh the irony!) ). I always have something else I can do. Complaining usually doesn't solve anything, so I don't waste my time. I enjoy having a good time, so if something happens I don't like, I move on to something that makes me happy. That's just me though.

[Maulmachine]

To the first article, what happend to the days when experienced scapers such as RSw44 or TS Stormage actually written something interesting with good insight? >.> The main article on the tip it time nowadays is nothing more than a rant section. I understand if you as a writer is frustrated at players complaining at Jagex for delaying an update. I mean god forbid you never heard it before. But is it really that worthwhile to put it on the main article? Tip It Times used to be an enjoyment for me and now after today's last straw following a string of bad articles I think I'll end my tradition of reading the times which began 2 years ago just because the editors no longer care who writes them. I remember when RSw44 was still writing, every week he'd post something interesting about the RS economy and gave me new insights into the workings of the GE. Or when Necro wrote his on the history of major RS bugs, that was always a fun walk down memory lane. But nowadays for nearly 2 months the articles seems to be just about people rambling on about their boring lives and the same old cliches (with a few diamonds in the roughs thanks to TS on the decline of the times, Forsakenmage on her fictional, and RSw44's return about Jagex cover ups).

 

Rants like this don't deserve to be on the times, if it does then I'd go spend 15 minute writing about everything in RS that's ever irritated me and I'll be able to provide tip it with a year's worth of writing. Leave these rants for the forum discussions, and actually let the intelligent insights flow on the times.

 

Article #2: Your guide to slayer seems like a guide to be polite. Unfortunately in the present rs state of efficiency I doubt many people would care about spawn stealing or cannoning in a crowded area. Although I agree wholeheartedly with the "heated" discussion about those slayer's "girlfriends"

 

Why do articles like this not deserve to be on the times? If you have ideas for articles, by jove please say! Please try yourself coming up with ideas for articles for a year then we will see how many 'original' ideas you can come up with. Criticising a public articles topic when you are not prepared to do it yourself is a null criticism.

 

Good articles imo. I agree with the slayer one, but I am one of the shrinking group of players not concerned in the slightest with efficiency and just playing the game to waste time and have fun.

They don't deserve to be on the times because the article in question, Racheya's, was her direct response to a forum argument. Where the exact same insults where used, and answered. Rather than glean anything from this, Racheya chose to portray those complaining in a negative light. Frequently calling them kids and making further over generalized. In a sense, it was just trolling. I have an idea for an article, a rebuttal to the point offered by Racheya. Oh wait, there's already a thread for that, created before the article was even written.

 

It was not a reply to a thread but a view of the discussions on this forums and other forums. To somebody who had no read the thread, it would not force them to read it to know background, it does not direct them to said thread, it does however display her views towards the views other people have. That is the whole point of an article. Roughly, all an article needs to be is somebodies view on something else, written to a good standard. She stated an overview of many peoples view of the delay and then her own view. A discussion on a forum is exactly that, a discussion. It looks to me as if the reason you have difficulty seeing its validity as an article is because it goes against your own point of view you have stated in the threads she gives an overview of.

 

 

As stated before, I think it is safe to say the editorial panel would welcome articles from all of you whatever the viewpoint, as long as you write of a good standard. If you are not prepared to show your own viewpoint in an article, you shouldn't say somebody elses viewpoint isn't worth writing an article on.

 

Dear Dan,

 

I would be willing to write an article, when did i say I wouldn't? I can say whatever I want, I think her viewpoint was used to troll others. That's my opinion, if you want an article about the reasons why I think that, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Since Racheya said in PM that arguing was useless regarding this, I'm not surprised this turned into an article. After all, if you aren't willing to argue with someone( or groups of people), then writing an article in a condescending nature is the way to go. I am available for such articles, and I can be extra extra condescending, I promise!

 

Once again, you are making presumptions regarding my stance on a variety of issues. Which is depressing, don't judge me too early Dan! I had to lump myself with the complaining crowd because I felt it was unfair to criticize them. A feeling which, according to Racheya's article, is likely because I'm a little kid who likes shiny things. I generally don't like being insulted. I don't think its my stance on complaining, which I find to be equivalent to unequivocal praise in terms of annoyingness, that makes me upset by the article. It probably had something to do with the insults. Actually, I think you're a little mistaken. You say that I'm questioning the articles validity as an article. On the contrary, I admit it's an article, it just shouldn't be. You're correct in stating that the article doesn't require knowledge of the thread, if you had read the thread then you would know the insults that Racheya has used previously. Including, calling people ,with a valid opinion, whiners, little kids, and lovers of shiny things. Oh and pointless. Well Racheya, if that thread is pointless, and your article is based, in its entirety, on said pointless thread... Well I shouldn't have to do the math, as you pointed out, I'm probably just some little kid.

 

Hey wait a minute, Danny, didn't you post on that other thread? Didn't your view pretty much agree with Racheyas? It seems silly to question my renunciation of the article, when we could easily question your approval of it. Confirmation Bias?

[Earth_Poet]

Racheya's "viewpoint" was to insult anybody who disagrees with her, and she does it in a major publication on this fansite, where thousands can read it. What makes this even worse is that she is not only a contributing writer for the Times, but she's also a super moderator for the forums. Not only is her mocking diatribe immature, but it is unprofessional and reflects very poorly on the rest of the staff. Unfortunately, if the article wasn't so inflammatory I probably would've agreed with her point of view. It could've been a good topic, and it even started out okay, but it ended up as a childish rant.

Which is what some of us have been saying for the last several months.

 

I was referring to this particular article only. I'm not ripping on the Times or Racheya in general.

[Danqazmlp]

Until somebody comes forward and writes an article or puts forward a good idea for one, I find it safe to say they (myself included) are unwilling to write one and shouldn't criticise whether or not an article should or should not be written.

 

As I have already stated, I would assume an article writer can write whatever they want (within reason of course), their view is allowed to be their own, be it one which will upset others or not. I think many articles upset a few people at least, it just so happens this time you were one of the few on the receiving end. This shouldn't meant that this one should not be there, it means that maybe you should read it and think twice about what you may have done to get this directed at you. Just because your view is not the same as somebody else's does not mean they cannot express that view.

 

To a large extent, I feel her article even represents the view of many people who saw the mass ranting on the RSOF and felt it was pathetic. Just because she posted in a thread about it here on the forums does not mean she cannot write an article on it.

[Maulmachine]

Until somebody comes forward and writes an article or puts forward a good idea for one, I find it safe to say they (myself included) are unwilling to write one and shouldn't criticise whether or not an article should or should not be written.

 

As I have already stated, I would assume an article writer can write whatever they want (within reason of course), their view is allowed to be their own, be it one which will upset others or not. I think many articles upset a few people at least, it just so happens this time you were one of the few on the receiving end. This shouldn't meant that this one should not be there, it means that maybe you should read it and think twice about what you may have done to get this directed at you. Just because your view is not the same as somebody else's does not mean they cannot express that view.

 

To a large extent, I feel her article even represents the view of many people who saw the mass ranting on the RSOF and felt it was pathetic. Just because she posted in a thread about it here on the forums does not mean she cannot write an article on it.

Once again, you're biased. Her opinion aligns with yours. I thought I was clear, I will write an article. I will. Stop saying I won't. Furthermore, since when is critiquing someone bad? This is a discussion forum. We're discussing it. Are we not allowed to post if our opinion differs from that of the writer(s)?

 

You miss the point once again Danny, this article was written in lieu of a discussion on the subject. There was a place for such discussion which serves as just as positive a place as an article. Yet when we display our opinions on the article, you say we can't as we're not willing to write an article. A flawed and misguided statement which I will discount as a 'null point'.

 

I invite you to show me an article which has incited as much negative comments as this has, until then that's a null point.

 

Just because someone doesn't have the same view as you, doesn't mean that you need to insult them in your article. You don't seem to get that. The article frequently insults the reader if they are of a certain belief! Hah! That's the very definition of a bad article! It isn't accessible to others because it clouds it's own argument through insults, which is what I said originally.

[stonewall337]

It was obvious from the article that the author couldn't brook anyone disagreeing with her on the issue of complaing, and so resorted to name calling. What more is there to discuss?

 

Hell, its obvious that Danz can't let things go, just look at the bottom of his signature. He refuses to admit that some people can't, or don't want to, do something "more productive" then play video games when they are paralyzed/hospitalized. He doesn't have any room to accept that. His bias is blatant, and from a moderator, as appalling as Racheya's ad hominum name calling farce of an article.

[Hevendor_Guy]

Author's just as whiny as the RSOF kids tbh. Yes, they ought to cut Jagex some slack, and at the same time, yes, they have a right to be irritated. Complaining about complaints just turns the entire debacle into a vicious cycle of stupidity - the article draws attention to something that needs none.

[Danqazmlp]

Until somebody comes forward and writes an article or puts forward a good idea for one, I find it safe to say they (myself included) are unwilling to write one and shouldn't criticise whether or not an article should or should not be written.

 

As I have already stated, I would assume an article writer can write whatever they want (within reason of course), their view is allowed to be their own, be it one which will upset others or not. I think many articles upset a few people at least, it just so happens this time you were one of the few on the receiving end. This shouldn't meant that this one should not be there, it means that maybe you should read it and think twice about what you may have done to get this directed at you. Just because your view is not the same as somebody else's does not mean they cannot express that view.

 

To a large extent, I feel her article even represents the view of many people who saw the mass ranting on the RSOF and felt it was pathetic. Just because she posted in a thread about it here on the forums does not mean she cannot write an article on it.

Once again, you're biased. Her opinion aligns with yours. I thought I was clear, I will write an article. I will. Stop saying I won't. Furthermore, since when is critiquing someone bad? This is a discussion forum. We're discussing it. Are we not allowed to post if our opinion differs from that of the writer(s)?

 

You miss the point once again Danny, this article was written in lieu of a discussion on the subject. There was a place for such discussion which serves as just as positive a place as an article. Yet when we display our opinions on the article, you say we can't as we're not willing to write an article. A flawed and misguided statement which I will discount as a 'null point'.

 

I invite you to show me an article which has incited as much negative comments as this has, until then that's a null point.

 

Just because someone doesn't have the same view as you, doesn't mean that you need to insult them in your article. You don't seem to get that. The article frequently insults the reader if they are of a certain belief! Hah! That's the very definition of a bad article! It isn't accessible to others because it clouds it's own argument through insults, which is what I said originally.

 

The last times had an article which some users found just as insulting, in which the writer displayed their dislike for quests.

 

I am not arguing with you discussing the material within the article, but if you read back to my first quote on this thread, my point was that saying this article does not deserve to be an article is plain wrong. An action taken by many players (complaining) annoyed many other players and one of them wrote an article on it. Just because that person may have previously stated their views on a forum does not mean it cannot be written in an article. Discuss the content to your hearts content, but the article stands.

 

 

It was obvious from the article that the author couldn't brook anyone disagreeing with her on the issue of complaing, and so resorted to name calling. What more is there to discuss?

 

Hell, its obvious that Danz can't let things go, just look at the bottom of his signature. He refuses to admit that some people can't, or don't want to, do something "more productive" then play video games when they are paralyzed/hospitalized. He doesn't have any room to accept that. His bias is blatant, and from a moderator, as appalling as Racheya's ad hominum name calling farce of an article.

 

I do not refuse to admit people will do that, I do refuse to give them any sympathy whatsoever when they say they cannot do anything else, because they can, they just won't, but this is majorly OT.

[stonewall337]

Don't think anyone asked for your sympathy, which is why I believe it points to your lack of ability to let go when others disagree.

[Maulmachine]

Dan let me make this clear. This has been my main point, but you dodge it and don't comment on it. What bothers me is how she articulated her point by insulting others. I find this to be completely unreasonable. Your defense of which was to say that I had no right to tell her that it shouldn't be an argument. It is my belief that you shouldn't write on a topic which you have an opinion if you cannot do so kindly. But the article is fraught with insults and sarcasm. I object to this. You're the one who is starting these long drawn out arguments without contributing anything thoughtful. I recognize her opinion is different, Dan, you're missing the point. And you're right, just because someone writes something on a thread doesn't mean they can't write an article about it. But they can sure as hell do that kindly. There is a difference.

 

I would like to add that on top of that, the article was on a matter which Racheya said was stupid to argue over. Yet that's exactly what the article has caused.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Maulmachine

[LinkOlaran]

Personally, I found both articles to be good reads, and I do tend to follow the second article's slaying habits standards to some degree - I'm the sort that would rather just leave the spot quietly if too many people are there, or someone shows up with a cannon - unless you insult me or taunt me in some way. I may be a decent enough guy, but if you piss me off, be prepared to fight for your precious spot, because I'll pull out all the stops to make your life miserable in that particular case. Yes, I can be an ass and spiteful. Surprised? :P

 

Anyway, I'll try to not comment too much on Racheya's article, considering the... discussion that's going on right now, but I wanted to add my two cents in anyway. I had no problem with the article until the last few paragraphs:

 

"So really, the rage and upset over this is just rather stupid if you ask me." (and no, I don't know how to quote properly, but this will do)

 

Before I continue, I'd like to say I agree with her view - I think the whining is a bit... excessive and irritating. But I still don't like the fact that she puts their views down so harshly. I wouldn't have been as harsh in saying it, even if I did agree with what she said.

 

I'd also like to state that I reread the Quest Phobia article, and there was nothing as... blunt or harsh in that article saying quests were stupid.

 

Do I think it's worthy of being an article? Yes, but I wouldn't have been so harsh in what I was saying. Just flat out saying "such and such is stupid" is just asking for flames and such, honestly.

 

I do hope I didn't make this... discussion even more flamey with my words >.>

[Aiel]

first article, this is why I have been suggesting sense they removed the BTS that jagex just have all the updates ready at the BEGINNING of the month. This way they can promise (barring any major incidents) that the update will be released precisely on Monday. It'd shut the RSOF ranters up until they actually read the update at least.

second article, was terrible. Slaying efficently>slaying 'politely'

 

good DYK for once.

[tlin]

Article 1:

 

I think BTS is great, even if they can't stick to it strictly and have to delay the occasional update by a week or two. It gives me stuff to look forward to, and in a good timeframe. Twitter hints are too short-term (~2 days warning), and Development Diaries are too long-term (can be months or years before the actual update).

 

Article 2:

 

Today I was slaying Dark Beasts at Kuradel's dungeon and (counting me) there were 2 people, which is an ideal number for that space. A 3rd guy joined in, and insisted that the room could support 3 people even though with 3 we all had to fight for spawns. So, I just hopped to a different world to do the rest of my task. Outlining what you think is good slayer etiquette is ok, but everybody will have different opinions on what's acceptable. Most people that I know would say that it's fair game to set up a cannon in any multicombat slayer area that allows it (e.g. Daggs, Specters).

 

To the first article, what happend to the days when experienced scapers such as RSw44 or TS Stormage actually written something interesting with good insight? >.> The main article on the tip it time nowadays is nothing more than a rant section. I understand if you as a writer is frustrated at players complaining at Jagex for delaying an update. I mean god forbid you never heard it before. But is it really that worthwhile to put it on the main article? Tip It Times used to be an enjoyment for me and now after today's last straw following a string of bad articles I think I'll end my tradition of reading the times which began 2 years ago just because the editors no longer care who writes them. I remember when RSw44 was still writing, every week he'd post something interesting about the RS economy and gave me new insights into the workings of the GE. Or when Necro wrote his on the history of major RS bugs, that was always a fun walk down memory lane. But nowadays for nearly 2 months the articles seems to be just about people rambling on about their boring lives and the same old cliches (with a few diamonds in the roughs thanks to TS on the decline of the times, Forsakenmage on her fictional, and RSw44's return about Jagex cover ups).

 

I sort of agree with this point. The tip.it times have had some very good articles in the past, by very qualified people. For example, I still look up and refer to the Duke Freedom articles every once in a while even though it's been many years since he wrote them. The current 2 tip.it times, while they're okay, are about the same level as what I'd expect to read in a decently-constructed RSOF rants forum topic.

 

Does the tip.it times staff actively seek out top players to write good articles? Or do they just wait for anyone random with a point to make to submit articles?

 

What I'd really be interested in reading would be:

 

+) Articles on any interesting clan merching issues, by owners of the top manipulation clans.

+) Anything written by Chessy, ACIDY, or any of the other uber-rich.

+) Perspectives on any YouTube Runescape video community issues, by someone with 5,000 subscribers.

+) Articles on any interesting monster-hunting issues (maybe how things have changed with time, drop rates, strategies, impact of dungeoneering, etc), by any of the top boss-monster hunters or soloers (e.g. the people with RSC galleries that have 70 hilts and 40 sigils).

+) Any articles about skills or minigames by someone ranked in the top 5 in that skill or minigame (there are a ton of interesting community/change-over-time/etc issues I can think of here for a good number of skills).

+) Perspectives from past famous players who have long ago quit, on what they miss, what they don't miss, what they got out of the game on reflection.

+) Articles on interesting clan activities/issues by founders/leaders of the most famous clans.

etc.

[Ts_Stormrage]

I'm goign to (mostly) avoid the discussion about the first article... It's been written, and while in my opinion it could have driven the point home just as harshly without the insults, I still agree with the overall point of the article... Some of the responses here actually prove it...

 

not what I wanted to talk about...

 

What irks me are the numerous claims that the Tip.it Times has decended on a whole in quality... I've written an article not too long ago on how I experienced first writing for the times, and how it is these days, 2 and a half years later...

The one thing that is the hardest to do is to keep finding new new things to write about (you can walk down memory lane only so many times), and yes sometimes you check the forums for inspiration, and sometimes you deliberately dont...

 

Yes, fresh blood is always nice, but to my knowledge, the Times does not activly recruit... I've asked a few of my clan mates, and we got one good writer and one good editor out of it... But the truth is... The Times provides a platform, and not everyone wants that spotlight... I can still play without hordes of random people PM-ing me about whatever article I posted this month, but I can imagine that for other players its a bit different...

 

But if you know someone that you think can write on an interesting level and a once-a-month basis, then by all means, PM me for a time and location to make the introductions and I'll take it form there...

[SuzanneVega]

Then you're doing it wrong. Black masks are only ~2m. No slayer should be without one.

 

I am not paying two mil for a mask. And even if I was willing, I don't have the bank space.

Yes, exactly. You're doing it wrong. No offense or anything--you're doing it wrong on purpose and you know you're doing it wrong, so there's nothing wrong with it. Besides, well, you know.

 

Who made you the authority on the right and wrong way to train slayer?

 

It may be a less efficient way, a slower way, or simply different from the way you do it, but that does not make it the wrong way. Whatever way any given player decides to train slayer is the right way, for them, and it's not your place to call it wrong. You can recommend a faster or more effective way, but your opinion that it is "wrong" does not make it fact.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

On-topic:

 

I didn't find Racheya's article to be at all insulting. It presented a sometimes exaggerated view of the people who get bent out of shape over BTS updates being delayed (a rather childish behaviour, but one all too common in many so-called adults), but that is a common tool used in writing, by many of the most celebrated authors in the world.

 

Perhaps those who found it to be insulting need to do two things:

 

1) Learn that there is a difference between calling a behaviour stupid, and calling the person exhibiting the behaviour stupid. Racheva did the former in the article, not the latter.

 

2) Grow a thicker skin to get over their over-sensitivity. It will be a big help if and when they ever decide to take a step out into the real world.

[stonewall337]

On-topic:

 

I didn't find Racheya's article to be at all insulting. It presented a sometimes exaggerated view of the people who get bent out of shape over BTS updates being delayed (a rather childish behaviour, but one all too common in many so-called adults), but that is a common tool used in writing, by many of the most celebrated authors in the world.

 

Perhaps those who found it to be insulting need to do two things:

 

1) Learn that there is a difference between calling a behaviour stupid, and calling the person exhibiting the behaviour stupid. Racheva did the former in the article, not the latter.

 

2) Grow a thicker skin to get over their over-sensitivity. It will be a big help if and when they ever decide to take a step out into the real world.

 

Actually, you are wrong. Maybe you should take some logic, as well as writing, classes to learn the difference, before you attempt to correct others, k?

 

"that many players took the predictions of the BTS to be set-in-stone truth. Then, when Jagex didn’t manage to get all the updates in for that month, or were having issues that delayed one of the updates in the BTS... a lot of people didn’t like it."

 

That is, rather obviously, aimmed at TIF'ers who complained. Its based on the assumption that others believe the BTS is set in stone, which, if you read the thread, is actually NOT what people said. In fact, I don't remember one person saying so.

 

"Yet, the people complained and cried. There was outrage and fury. Jagex had promised the new Treasure Trails! How dare they postpone it for a week! "

 

Possibly correct about RSOF, but this assessment is made about ANYONE and EVERYONE, with no differentiation between those who complained, but still understood the need for delay at times, and those who just raged. Another logically fallacy, and a rather childish attack.

 

"How on Earth am I supposed to entertain myself if I don’t have shiny new things to click every week?! We pay, we say!"

 

That is just idiotic, I can't believe any thinking author would write that. Saying something like that is comparable, in some ways, to a taxpayer saying because they pay taxs, they can direct where their tax money goes to. We pay, but we don't direct what updates come out, rather we pay to be ABLE to pay RS. That argument is a straw man, attacking something else, rather then the issue at hand.

 

I'd really be interested in knowing how much Racheya knows about programming, and coding. From reading her blog, as well as other areas, I feel rather secure in saying that she has NEVER coded ANYTHING in her life.

 

"So really, the rage and upset over this is just rather stupid if you ask me."

 

Ok, fine, that is an opinion and everyone is entitled to it. I rather think your writing and logic skills are poor, but that is just my opinion, and I am entitled to it.

 

"The update will be out soon enough anyway and there’s enough content to be getting on with in the meantime"

 

Quite a lame argument. Considering 1.) I know people who only play to try out new updates etc, and 2.) saying that "Don't whine, it will be out later" is rather silly. If I owe my brother money, he is expecting it on a certain day, although he knows for sure I might not be able to pay him, and then I don't pay him, he might be upset with me. Sure, he'd be understanding, and he'd wait, but I wouldn't blame him for not being happy.

 

"And, if you think that you ‘deserve’ this update NOW because you’re a paying member, then the solution is to stop paying."

 

sigh. Show me ONE post where anyone said they DESERVED this update now? That argument to stop paying is so stupid, I shouldn't even have to correct it. I love culvers. (A restaurant) However, if one time, they fail to serve food as expected, and I complain about it, will I stop going their forever? NO. It was a disappointment, but I don't just stop going there. I instead complain to management, in order to receive either a reason, or a refund.

 

"I’d be tired of hearing kids going “But they said!” too"

 

Way to go. The ending of an writing should be the summation of your whole argument. You did that quite well, by showing that your only retort was to resort to calling anyone who complained a "kid"

 

I have to go know, I'll be back later to finish my response.

[SuzanneVega]

Actually, you are wrong. Maybe you should take some logic, as well as writing, classes to learn the difference, before you attempt to correct others, k?

 

How about you state the subject, object and reasoning for your objection?

 

All you have done is post a knee-jerk response with nothing to back it up, simply because it does not align with your personal viewpoint, which to someone who IS educated both in logic and writing is nothing more than an ad-hominem attack based on non-existent arguments with no foundation.

[Low C]

I'm just going to state my "OPINION" on each article if Danz replies to this I will just ignore it. No idea why he thinks we can't state our opinions on the articles.

 

Article 1.) I thought it resembled something from the RSOF rants. It had a lot of name calling and ranting. I'll just go read the Behind the scenes of august thread or the rant's section to get the just of article one.

 

Article 2.) Not as bad as the first article, but I don't really need help with manners during slayer. I disagree with the author but he did convey his points without name calling and raging.

[Maulmachine]

Actually, you are wrong. Maybe you should take some logic, as well as writing, classes to learn the difference, before you attempt to correct others, k?

 

How about you state the subject, object and reasoning for your objection?

 

All you have done is post a knee-jerk response with nothing to back it up, simply because it does not align with your personal viewpoint, which to someone who IS educated both in logic and writing is nothing more than an ad-hominem attack based on non-existent arguments with no foundation.

Suzanne,

I'm not stonewall, but I'll try to convey what a similar message. You may have had some speck of truth in your behavior statement, but I'll rephrase it with what I learned. I was taught that when conveying a point which may be taken badly, two things matters: subject matter, and articulation. In this case, the subject matter is fine. The articulation is not fine. The point is articulated with an insulting and condescending voice. You assume that those who found it insulting, were in turn offended by it. That truly would be immature, I found the article insulting, but I also laughed when reading it. My problem is that the article was written, seemingly, with the intention to incite a negative response. That is what I object to. Your mention of celebrated authors reminds me of an old English teacher who frequently reminded students that we were not celebrated authors, there's a reason they write like that and you don't.

[muggiwhplar]

On-topic:

 

I didn't find Racheya's article to be at all insulting. It presented a sometimes exaggerated view of the people who get bent out of shape over BTS updates being delayed (a rather childish behaviour, but one all too common in many so-called adults), but that is a common tool used in writing, by many of the most celebrated authors in the world.

 

Perhaps those who found it to be insulting need to do two things:

 

1) Learn that there is a difference between calling a behaviour stupid, and calling the person exhibiting the behaviour stupid. Racheva did the former in the article, not the latter.

 

2) Grow a thicker skin to get over their over-sensitivity. It will be a big help if and when they ever decide to take a step out into the real world.

 

Actually, you are wrong. Maybe you should take some logic, as well as writing, classes to learn the difference, before you attempt to correct others, k?

 

"that many players took the predictions of the BTS to be set-in-stone truth. Then, when Jagex didnt manage to get all the updates in for that month, or were having issues that delayed one of the updates in the BTS... a lot of people didnt like it."

 

That is, rather obviously, aimmed at TIF'ers who complained. Its based on the assumption that others believe the BTS is set in stone, which, if you read the thread, is actually NOT what people said. In fact, I don't remember one person saying so.

 

"Yet, the people complained and cried. There was outrage and fury. Jagex had promised the new Treasure Trails! How dare they postpone it for a week! "

 

Possibly correct about RSOF, but this assessment is made about ANYONE and EVERYONE, with no differentiation between those who complained, but still understood the need for delay at times, and those who just raged. Another logically fallacy, and a rather childish attack.

 

"How on Earth am I supposed to entertain myself if I dont have shiny new things to click every week?! We pay, we say!"

 

That is just idiotic, I can't believe any thinking author would write that. Saying something like that is comparable, in some ways, to a taxpayer saying because they pay taxs, they can direct where their tax money goes to. We pay, but we don't direct what updates come out, rather we pay to be ABLE to pay RS. That argument is a straw man, attacking something else, rather then the issue at hand.

 

I'd really be interested in knowing how much Racheya knows about programming, and coding. From reading her blog, as well as other areas, I feel rather secure in saying that she has NEVER coded ANYTHING in her life.

 

"So really, the rage and upset over this is just rather stupid if you ask me."

 

Ok, fine, that is an opinion and everyone is entitled to it. I rather think your writing and logic skills are poor, but that is just my opinion, and I am entitled to it.

 

"The update will be out soon enough anyway and theres enough content to be getting on with in the meantime"

 

Quite a lame argument. Considering 1.) I know people who only play to try out new updates etc, and 2.) saying that "Don't whine, it will be out later" is rather silly. If I owe my brother money, he is expecting it on a certain day, although he knows for sure I might not be able to pay him, and then I don't pay him, he might be upset with me. Sure, he'd be understanding, and he'd wait, but I wouldn't blame him for not being happy.

 

"And, if you think that you deserve this update NOW because youre a paying member, then the solution is to stop paying."

 

sigh. Show me ONE post where anyone said they DESERVED this update now? That argument to stop paying is so stupid, I shouldn't even have to correct it. I love culvers. (A restaurant) However, if one time, they fail to serve food as expected, and I complain about it, will I stop going their forever? NO. It was a disappointment, but I don't just stop going there. I instead complain to management, in order to receive either a reason, or a refund.

 

"Id be tired of hearing kids going But they said! too"

 

Way to go. The ending of an writing should be the summation of your whole argument. You did that quite well, by showing that your only retort was to resort to calling anyone who complained a "kid"

 

I have to go know, I'll be back later to finish my response.

 

=D>

[Jonanananas]

Maybe I may comment here from a rather neutral point of view. I'll add my comments in green.

 

 

On-topic:

 

I didn't find Racheya's article to be at all insulting. It presented a sometimes exaggerated view of the people who get bent out of shape over BTS updates being delayed (a rather childish behaviour, but one all too common in many so-called adults), but that is a common tool used in writing, by many of the most celebrated authors in the world.

 

Perhaps those who found it to be insulting need to do two things:

 

1) Learn that there is a difference between calling a behaviour stupid, and calling the person exhibiting the behaviour stupid. Racheva did the former in the article, not the latter.

 

2) Grow a thicker skin to get over their over-sensitivity. It will be a big help if and when they ever decide to take a step out into the real world.

 

Actually, you are wrong. Maybe you should take some logic, as well as writing, classes to learn the difference, before you attempt to correct others, k?

 

"that many players took the predictions of the BTS to be set-in-stone truth. Then, when Jagex didn’t manage to get all the updates in for that month, or were having issues that delayed one of the updates in the BTS... a lot of people didn’t like it."

 

That is, rather obviously, aimmed at TIF'ers who complained. Its based on the assumption that others believe the BTS is set in stone, which, if you read the thread, is actually NOT what people said. In fact, I don't remember one person saying so.

It's mostly about the discussion on this thread. I have not read it, I don't know what you said, I don't know what Racheya said. But to me I can say that I cannot see it aimed at TIF'ers but rather at all people discussing about the update, where a large majority DID take the BTS for set in stone. Once again, I don't know about this thread or what happened there, but as an unknowing reader I cannot find a hint to it.

 

"Yet, the people complained and cried. There was outrage and fury. Jagex had promised the new Treasure Trails! How dare they postpone it for a week! "

 

Possibly correct about RSOF, but this assessment is made about ANYONE and EVERYONE, with no differentiation between those who complained, but still understood the need for delay at times, and those who just raged. Another logically fallacy, and a rather childish attack.

 

Here a bit of differencation is missing, you're right. However, when you look at the words (cried, outrage, fury) I don't think Racheya meant the normal players who just voiced legit complaints(As I did too, for that matter). Of course it could also be the attempt to put down anyone who complains, but I don't believe that from the wording of the article. Still it is of course a possibilty.

 

"How on Earth am I supposed to entertain myself if I don’t have shiny new things to click every week?! We pay, we say!"

 

That is just idiotic, I can't believe any thinking author would write that. Saying something like that is comparable, in some ways, to a taxpayer saying because they pay taxs, they can direct where their tax money goes to. We pay, but we don't direct what updates come out, rather we pay to be ABLE to pay RS. That argument is a straw man, attacking something else, rather then the issue at hand.

 

This is interesting. You say who idiotic the Phrase "we pay, we say" is, and criticisize Racheya for it who has been critisizing the whiners(If I may name the part of the community which is mindlessly complaining about it whiners). Unless you didn't get the sarcasm, which I doubt, I honestly don't understand what you're getting at.

 

I'd really be interested in knowing how much Racheya knows about programming, and coding. From reading her blog, as well as other areas, I feel rather secure in saying that she has NEVER coded ANYTHING in her life.

 

I don't actually see how that makes a difference. She didn't say anythin like "they are fail nubs, putting updates out is sooo easy" I cannot see where she would have needed the experience how difficult coding is anywhere in writing her article

 

"So really, the rage and upset over this is just rather stupid if you ask me."

 

Ok, fine, that is an opinion and everyone is entitled to it. I rather think your writing and logic skills are poor, but that is just my opinion, and I am entitled to it.

You're right, opinions on both sides, nothing I can add to it.

 

"The update will be out soon enough anyway and there’s enough content to be getting on with in the meantime"

 

Quite a lame argument. Considering 1.) I know people who only play to try out new updates etc, and 2.) saying that "Don't whine, it will be out later" is rather silly. If I owe my brother money, he is expecting it on a certain day, although he knows for sure I might not be able to pay him, and then I don't pay him, he might be upset with me. Sure, he'd be understanding, and he'd wait, but I wouldn't blame him for not being happy.

 

It's ok to play only for updates, everyone can play as he may like. But they have to calculate that an update may be delayed, and getting in rage because they limited themselves(for whatever reason) to only playing new updates is rather idiotic tbh. Once again, it's not about complaining, but about whining/raging. On the second point you're kind of right, I think she is taking it too lightly here. A lot of people however,(mainly on the RSOF) are taking it a lot too important.

 

"And, if you think that you ‘deserve’ this update NOW because you’re a paying member, then the solution is to stop paying."

 

sigh. Show me ONE post where anyone said they DESERVED this update now? That argument to stop paying is so stupid, I shouldn't even have to correct it. I love culvers. (A restaurant) However, if one time, they fail to serve food as expected, and I complain about it, will I stop going their forever? NO. It was a disappointment, but I don't just stop going there. I instead complain to management, in order to receive either a reason, or a refund.

 

"I’d be tired of hearing kids going “But they said!” too"

 

Way to go. The ending of an writing should be the summation of your whole argument. You did that quite well, by showing that your only retort was to resort to calling anyone who complained a "kid"

 

Here again from my point of view, it seems to me that Racheya is getting at the whiners(which DO act like kids) and you take it as an insult to everybody. It's possible that she meant it that way, you seem to be sure after the discussion going on earlier. Uninformed about happening earlier between you, I do not deem it likely.

 

I have to go know, I'll be back later to finish my response.

[stonewall337]

In essence, I wouldn't have taken so much exception to the article if Racheya hadn't lumped everyone who has something against TT's not coming out with RSOF'ers who just ranted. There was nothing to differentiate these two groups of people. I would still have felt the author's writing style was poorly chosen and executed, but I wouldn't have felt it was aimed at anyone who disagrees with the author, which is what the author seemed to be trying to do. It could have been written without so much bias and attack. In fact, I have half a mind to re-write that article, from Racheya's standpoint of complaining being useless, just to show how it COULD or SHOULD have been done.

 

As well, phrases like "their shiny new toy" and "kid" should never have found their way into the article.

[Troacctid]

[hide]

Then you're doing it wrong. Black masks are only ~2m. No slayer should be without one.

 

I am not paying two mil for a mask. And even if I was willing, I don't have the bank space.

Yes, exactly. You're doing it wrong. No offense or anything--you're doing it wrong on purpose and you know you're doing it wrong, so there's nothing wrong with it. Besides, well, you know.

[/hide]

Who made you the authority on the right and wrong way to train slayer?

 

It may be a less efficient way, a slower way, or simply different from the way you do it, but that does not make it the wrong way. Whatever way any given player decides to train slayer is the right way, for them, and it's not your place to call it wrong. You can recommend a faster or more effective way, but your opinion that it is "wrong" does not make it fact.

I didn't say it was wrong. I only said it was wrong. There's a difference. If you're wrong, you're wrong, but the right to be wrong is essential to any meaningful definition of freedom, so there's nothing inherently wrong about exercising one's right to be wrong, other than being wrong. And for the record, I made me an authority on the right and wrong way to train slayer.

 

:shades:

[xxshady]

In essence, I wouldn't have taken so much exception to the article if Racheya hadn't lumped everyone who has something against TT's not coming out with RSOF'ers who just ranted. There was nothing to differentiate these two groups of people. I would still have felt the author's writing style was poorly chosen and executed, but I wouldn't have felt it was aimed at anyone who disagrees with the author, which is what the author seemed to be trying to do. It could have been written without so much bias and attack. In fact, I have half a mind to re-write that article, from Racheya's standpoint of complaining being useless, just to show how it COULD or SHOULD have been done.

 

As well, phrases like "their shiny new toy" and "kid" should never have found their way into the article.

 

In all fairness, most of the Runescape community consists of kids. Racheya's article is still meaningless, however.

[Vulxai]

I didn't say it was wrong. I only said it was wrong.

 

I understood what you said when you explained it...but that could have probably used some rewording before the explanation.