Shadow Silk Hood

[stonewall337]

Having everyone binding a platebody and 2h would be somehow different?

 

 

I RARELY see anyone who favored a platebody over hood. (Unless the person isn't familar with the hood's capabilities)

but yes, it will make a difference since mages will bind a robetop, rangers will bind a leatherbody, etc.

No they wouldn't, anymore then any 100+ would bind a range/mage top. We all bind plates, unless we have HHb or something.

 

RS isn't like other games; There will almost always be a best chose. In this case, if hood were nerfed, then 98% of the people using it now would all switch to the same other option, most likely plate.

[Myweponsg00d]

then hood is not an outlier

 

Okay, bro..here's the situation. There is a problem because the hood is the BEST ITEM in dungeoneering. It is the best for keyers, rushers, meleers, mages, etc. For your other binds, there are plenty of choices depending on which role you want to play. But for the most part, everyone would be wise in devoting one of their binds to the hood.

 

Let's use your comparison to the rest of Runescape. You started listing off a bunch of different items which are all "the best". Well...heres the problem, you listed the best 1 handed melee weapon, the best mage necklace, etc. You listed nothing that is the single best equip slot in the game.

 

For example, imagine I created an amulet that gave +100 to all defenses, +50 to all attack styles, +50% magic damage, 40 strength and 40 prayer. For the hell of it, lets say this amulet also let you talk to cats, ghosts, camels, and monkeys, AND it also gave you the effect of restoring 5 prayer points any time you buried a bone of any type. It is also tradeable, but you can get as many as you want from an NPC in Lumbridge who gives them out to everybody. It also has no level requirements to wear.

 

There would never be any reason to wear an amulet that is NOT this amulet. Everyone would just have this ammy on at all times and the game would be super boring. This is the same problem that the SSH has: theres really no reason that you shouldn't bind it.

[Slayer_Jesse]

Having everyone binding a platebody and 2h would be somehow different?

 

 

I RARELY see anyone who favored a platebody over hood. (Unless the person isn't familar with the hood's capabilities)

but yes, it will make a difference since mages will bind a robetop, rangers will bind a leatherbody, etc.

Im one of them. the hood is deactivated my mages, and there seems to be mages in EVERY [CABBAGING] ROOM. plus, i like having a decent amount of def rather than being naked and getting torn to shreds.

[TheAncient]

There would never be any reason to wear an amulet that is NOT this amulet. Everyone would just have this ammy on at all times and the game would be super boring. This is the same problem that the SSH has: theres really no reason that you shouldn't bind it.

 

not really:

if you have sub 50 dg, a weapon is more useful than hood.

if you find a hexhunter and are sub 100 dg, you should seriously consider unbinding hood (or melee wep) and binding the hex if you ever plan to get above 100 dg and have access to 3 binds

if you go to w117, use non-rush methods, and no one else on the team has hood it *may* be better to bind plate.

if you don't get a hood drop (the hood's rarity should be considered too)

[Andy]

Having everyone binding a platebody and 2h would be somehow different?

 

 

I RARELY see anyone who favored a platebody over hood. (Unless the person isn't familar with the hood's capabilities)

but yes, it will make a difference since mages will bind a robetop, rangers will bind a leatherbody, etc.

Im one of them. the hood is deactivated my mages, and there seems to be mages in EVERY [CABBAGING] ROOM. plus, i like having a decent amount of def rather than being naked and getting torn to shreds.

The only time you should be in a room with a mage is if you're doing a gd or running through it to open a door.

If it's the latter, all you do is take off your hood while in the room and put it on in the next, making it so you only take a tiny amount of damage. I've never had any problems getting "torn to shreds" with my hood.

[Soma2035]

in that case, we should reduce the stats of chaotic rapier, abyssal whip, all defenders, amulet of fury, all barrows armor, all spirit shields, and arcane stream necklace. they are outliers and must be nerfed because they are superior to dragon scimitar, rune scimitar, dragon square shield, amulet of power, dragon armor, dragonfire shield, and third age mage amulet.

 

No, because those items are meant to be tiered. Notice that a Chaotic Rapier requires level 80, while an Abyssal Whip requires level 70, while a Dragon Scimitar requires level 60, while a Rune Scimitar requires level 40. Notice also that as the tiers get higher, other requirements are added (Monkey Madness for the Dragon Scimitar, Abyssal Whip only available as a monster drop from a monster requiring 85 Slayer, Chaotic Rapier requiring over 80 Dungeoneering and degrading to boot).

 

These items all come with trade offs, and these items all come with higher requirements. The problem the TC is remarking on is that there is no other SSH. It's SSH or bust. In general, it also outclasses even top of the line items. I found my first SSH before I completed the frozen floors for the first time, I believe (it may have been once I hit the forgotten floors too). This is like an Amulet of Accuracy that outclasses the Amulet of Fury. It doesn't need to be direct in terms of stats, but if functionality wise, the Amulet of Accuracy was usually superior to the Amulet of Fury, you bet something would have to change.

 

Imagine if with the damage soak update, the Amulet of Accuracy suddenly gained 40% Melee, Range, and Magic damage soak, applied a 1 prayer point per 5 seconds regeneration, and increased your chance to hit by 20%. Even though it's not the same thing as an Amulet of Fury by any means, it suddenly makes an Amulet of Accuracy better in nearly every way. The Shadowsilk Hood was meant to be a niche item, but instead, it's top of the line for offense and defense. Offensively speaking, you can attack monsters one at a time if they're blind to your presence, allowing you to negate their damage with prayers and attack them without stopping to eat. Defensively speaking, you expect to take a lot less damage in most rooms. In contrast, none of the other helms come close. In fact, the helms are being directly outclassed by the other pieces of armor.

 

Granted, an Amulet of Accuracy is a lot easier to get than an SSH since there's little to no luck involved, but you have to question whether any item should really over-centralize like the SSH does. At the minimum, you would expect items like Primal Helm, that fill the same slot and require high stats to be a consideration, but they aren't. They're cast aside in favor of armor, and armor is cast aside in favor of the hood by most players who enjoy Dungeoneering as a group.

 

I wouldn't nerf the SSH just because of this though...

[stonewall337]

then hood is not an outlier

 

Okay, bro..here's the situation. There is a problem because the hood is the BEST ITEM in dungeoneering. It is the best for keyers, rushers, meleers, mages, etc. For your other binds, there are plenty of choices depending on which role you want to play. But for the most part, everyone would be wise in devoting one of their binds to the hood.

 

Let's use your comparison to the rest of Runescape. You started listing off a bunch of different items which are all "the best". Well...heres the problem, you listed the best 1 handed melee weapon, the best mage necklace, etc. You listed nothing that is the single best equip slot in the game.

 

For example, imagine I created an amulet that gave +100 to all defenses, +50 to all attack styles, +50% magic damage, 40 strength and 40 prayer. For the hell of it, lets say this amulet also let you talk to cats, ghosts, camels, and monkeys, AND it also gave you the effect of restoring 5 prayer points any time you buried a bone of any type. It is also tradeable, but you can get as many as you want from an NPC in Lumbridge who gives them out to everybody. It also has no level requirements to wear.

 

There would never be any reason to wear an amulet that is NOT this amulet. Everyone would just have this ammy on at all times and the game would be super boring. This is the same problem that the SSH has: theres really no reason that you shouldn't bind it.

 

 

You are 57 DG. You really can't argue with some people who have over 100x your xp, when you are arguing something you don't understand.

 

There will ALWAYS be a best something for any task. Best damage spec wep for x task, etc. This is the best 2nd bind. If you nerf/change it, then something ELSE becomes the best item, get it?

 

How exactly do you change that, give items random specs? FYI, the best weapon for slayer is the chaotic rapier, followed by whip. That doesn't make the game boring.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I think you have to look at requirements. SSH requires a defence level of 45, very low by anyone's standards except pures and skillers, and can be gained by any player who's in a team with a 41 slayer - not even requiring the 41 slayer themselves, and again, a very low requirement that takes no time to achieve. It's clear they pitched the SSH at mid-to-low level players, yet defensively it's preferred over a Tier 11 platebody/leather body/robe top. For a level 45 item dropped by a night spider, floor 12, to provide more protection than a level 99 item dropped by Dreadnaut, floor 45, doesn't make sense. You can talk about how CR > whip, and there'll always be a 'best item', but the attack levels required for those respective items reflect that - this isn't the case for the SSH by a long shot. It's like getting to level 45 slayer, receiving SOL-dropping ice wyrms, and making levels 46-99 meaningless.

 

Furthermore, it essentially rules out binding ranged and mage armour/equipment, once again reinforcing the idea that in RuneScape: melee > everything.

[stonewall337]

I think you have to look at requirements. SSH requires a defence level of 45, very low by anyone's standards except pures and skillers, and can be gained by any player who's in a team with a 41 slayer - not even requiring the 41 slayer themselves, and again, a very low requirement that takes no time to achieve. It's clear they pitched the SSH at mid-to-low level players, yet defensively it's preferred over a Tier 11 platebody/leather body/robe top. For a level 45 item dropped by a night spider, floor 12, to provide more protection than a level 99 item dropped by Dreadnaut, floor 45, doesn't make sense. You can talk about how CR > whip, and there'll always be a 'best item', but the attack levels required for those respective items reflect that - this isn't the case for the SSH by a long shot. It's like getting to level 45 slayer, receiving SOL-dropping ice wyrms, and making levels 46-99 meaningless.

 

Furthermore, it essentially rules out binding ranged and mage armour/equipment, once again reinforcing the idea that in RuneScape: melee > everything.

 

 

Happens all the time. Whip>GS. Fletching mith bolts>rune. ETc

[Ginger_Warrior]

Whip and GS have five attack levels between them, whip is only better with the off-hand slot, can't train strength and is beaten by an item ten levels higher. We're hardly talking a 54 level difference running the wrong way for an item that's ubiquitously superior when we talk about whip vs GS.

[stonewall337]

That simply means there is no precedent. Your argument is based on only one thing: The premise that higher level requirement should necessitate an item is always better then a lower tier/level item. That premise is false, and nonsensical. Not to mention, it does not take into account the difference between slayer drops, and boss drops, inside daemonheim.

[Quyneax]

That simply means there is no precedent. Your argument is based on only one thing: The premise that higher level requirement should necessitate an item is always better then a lower tier/level item. That premise is false, and nonsensical. Not to mention, it does not take into account the difference between slayer drops, and boss drops, inside daemonheim.

To elaborate on that: 5:5 large bosses very commonly drop t11 gear. And you get one boss every floor.

 

Still, hoods are very common. They could be a little rarer or made to require higher levels. I don't think they should be made worse though.

[muggiwhplar]

Sometimes I wish I had never taken a Logic and Reasoning class.

 

There's so many fallacies in everyone's arguments in this topic :wall:

[Kimberly]

Sometimes I wish I had never taken a Logic and Reasoning class.

 

There's so many fallacies in everyone's arguments in this topic :wall:

 

Debating helps the learning process. You'd actually be doing people favors to engage in the debate ;)

[stonewall337]

Sometimes I wish I had never taken a Logic and Reasoning class.

 

There's so many fallacies in everyone's arguments in this topic :wall:

Logical fallacies are quite useful in an argument, as long as you don't get caught using them, hence why I use them on occasion.

 

SSH are still rather rare, I haven't seen one in like 10m DG xp.

 

A more fitting way would be to enable better use of boss drops. Once I get primal pl8, there is no reason to ever care about the Warlords drops ever again.

[Sir_Kurity]

i think chaotic rapier is to good for slayer and therefore, takes an option away for variety for weapon choice.

i think pack yak is to good as a bob if you can use, and then takes options away from natural choice of bob

i think dragon pickaxe is better than all....

i think ...

i...

Thats completely different.

 

None of them are unique, there are alternatives which are almost as good in most cases, and are significantly easier to get.

[Askthedude]

You can talk about how CR > whip, and there'll always be a 'best item', but the attack levels required for those respective items reflect that - this isn't the case for the SSH by a long shot.

 

With a whip at level 70 attack you get an item with X stats, and as you progress in attack levels you eventually gain access to the CR, which has X+1 stats which in turn make it the better item.

 

Looking at the SSH and what many people would bind in its place, a Primal Plate, at a lower defence level you gain access to the SSH with mediocre defence stats and as you progress through defence levels you gain access to the Primal Plate, which has much better stats than the SSH. The only difference being that Jagex applied a special effect to the SSH meaning players preffer it to the Primal Plate.

 

Outside of Dungeonheim we can find examples of this like the Staff of Light and the Chaotic Staff. The SoL, much like the SSH is available at lower levels and as such has lower bonus' than the Chaotic Staff, but, because of the special rune saving effect Jagex added to the SoL, players preffer it to the Chaotic Staff even if this means losing out on some stats.

Take away the rune saving effect and you'll find that players will switch to the CS as it is the next best thing, and the same would happen with the SSH if you took away it's cloaking ability, players would switch to the next best thing which would be the Primal Plate. All this would achieve is someone deciding that the new best item, the Primal Plate, needs nerfing and then players would switch to the next best item on the ladder... And so on and so on...

[aspeeder]

You can talk about how CR > whip, and there'll always be a 'best item', but the attack levels required for those respective items reflect that - this isn't the case for the SSH by a long shot.

 

With a whip at level 70 attack you get an item with X stats, and as you progress in attack levels you eventually gain access to the CR, which has X+1 stats which in turn make it the better item.

 

Looking at the SSH and what many people would bind in its place, a Primal Plate, at a lower defence level you gain access to the SSH with mediocre defence stats and as you progress through defence levels you gain access to the Primal Plate, which has much better stats than the SSH. The only difference being that Jagex applied a special effect to the SSH meaning players preffer it to the Primal Plate.

 

Outside of Dungeonheim we can find examples of this like the Staff of Light and the Chaotic Staff. The SoL, much like the SSH is available at lower levels and as such has lower bonus' than the Chaotic Staff, but, because of the special rune saving effect Jagex added to the SoL, players preffer it to the Chaotic Staff even if this means losing out on some stats.

Take away the rune saving effect and you'll find that players will switch to the CS as it is the next best thing, and the same would happen with the SSH if you took away it's cloaking ability, players would switch to the next best thing which would be the Primal Plate. All this would achieve is someone deciding that the new best item, the Primal Plate, needs nerfing and then players would switch to the next best item on the ladder... And so on and so on...

You seem to be implying that the SSH and Primal Plate are similar items when in fact they are not. The SSH is not considered a step down from Primal Plate with an extra ability that puts it over the top, the ability is the ONLY thing that distinguishes it and keeps it above Primal in terms of usefulness. I do agree, though, that no matter what you nerf there will always be the standard "next best thing" that everyone will use; in this game there are very few ambiguous best setups.

[Jolletzu]

Binding primal plate/legs/kite/baxe is pretty good combination for keying tbh

[jettrider]

The one legitimate point you didn't bring up was droprate. Is it fair for players at the same level and relative skill/knowledge to not be able to join teams of equal ability? I see the hood drop as inevitable and fairly common enough (indeed, a ridiculous amount more common than the Hexhunter bow, which seems to be encouraged in the better permanent teams) to be a reward on your way up. With higher exp rates, higher monster concentrations, and higher level requirements for dungeoneering clans, it's safe to say that you'll probably get a hood (though there are exceptions) before you're ready to join a clan that requires it.

 

the hood NEEDS to be more common IF people actually wants them to join a team. I've seen a fair enough of 80+ 90+ or even 100+ dungeoneers who's never had a chance of getting a hood. The worst part is that players who cannot even kill night spiders leeches the hood

killed by another teammate which encourages a lot of unfriendly competition and basically ruins the whole team. Leeching is an issue to basically

any desirable slayer drops and the hood is obviously no different. At 87 dungeoneering, I have yet to see a gold precision bracelet, doomcore staff, blood neck, etc. I would never call any slayer drops common or inevitable.

 

A hood drop is common over the course of getting 3 binds. I've only ever met a couple people (only one in the last 15m exp) who are 100+ without a drop. Golden precisions bracelets and doomcore staves are also quite common when you consider Dungeoneering's unique exp scale. Sorry for saying this, but to apply to 3bo you'd need 6 times the experience for level 87, which offers excellent chances of getting a hood. Also, you make it sound like every hood drop is fiercely fought over, whereas if you train with the many people who already have a hood, only a few bad apples will alch a drop or something and the rest will give it to you.

 

But even with the above, I support making some other way to obtain shadow silk gear because it is essentially based on luck. I'm on your side on this particular aspect of the hood. Nerf? no. Increase accessibility? sure.

[Myweponsg00d]

There will ALWAYS be a best something for any task. Best damage spec wep for x task, etc. This is the best 2nd bind. If you nerf/change it, then something ELSE becomes the best item, get it?

 

How exactly do you change that, give items random specs? FYI, the best weapon for slayer is the chaotic rapier, followed by whip. That doesn't make the game boring.

 

You missed the damn point. There wouldn't be anything wrong if the SSH was only good for doing one very specific thing. But it is basically a manditory item for any teams that want to attain high exp rates. Regardless of role.

 

Rapier is the best slayer weapon, okay. But what is the best weapon for killing Kree? What is the best weapon for killing waterfiends? What is the single best weapon for PvP? (CR is great for PvP, but spec weapons are also used) If CR was the best weapon for every single scenario (not just every melee scenario, not just every stab scenario, but EVERY monster and every mini game etc..) then yes, the weapon would be a bore.

 

SSH in DG is pretty much the best bind for every player to obtain to achieve maximum DG exp. If it was only the best bind for melee, or if it was only the best bind for keyers...that would be a different story. Obviously there will always be a best bow, a best weapon, etc. But these are for certain roles. But it seems like every role in DG would pretty much love to have a SSH.

[ho3f3l]

i think chaotic rapier is to good for slayer and therefore, takes an option away for variety for weapon choice.

i think pack yak is to good as a bob if you can use, and then takes options away from natural choice of bob

i think dragon pickaxe is better than all....

i think ...

i...

Thats completely different.

 

None of them are unique, there are alternatives which are almost as good in most cases, and are significantly easier to get.

 

when you say unique, you say like what? only head gear inside the dungeons that have that special?

 

yeaah, so let me think....

 

i think pack yak is to good as a bob if you can use, since he can store a item to a bank far away (unique) ... . .. . ..

i think slayer helmet is overpowered for slayer, since it gives me bonus for melee, range and magic, as well all the protections i need (unique) . .. . . .. . ..

 

jagex should nerf or remove those, for balance with other items!!!

[ho3f3l]

There will ALWAYS be a best something for any task. Best damage spec wep for x task, etc. This is the best 2nd bind. If you nerf/change it, then something ELSE becomes the best item, get it?

 

How exactly do you change that, give items random specs? FYI, the best weapon for slayer is the chaotic rapier, followed by whip. That doesn't make the game boring.

 

You missed the damn point. There wouldn't be anything wrong if the SSH was only good for doing one very specific thing. But it is basically a manditory item for any teams that want to attain high exp rates. Regardless of role.

 

Rapier is the best slayer weapon, okay. But what is the best weapon for killing Kree? What is the best weapon for killing waterfiends? What is the single best weapon for PvP? (CR is great for PvP, but spec weapons are also used) If CR was the best weapon for every single scenario (not just every melee scenario, not just every stab scenario, but EVERY monster and every mini game etc..) then yes, the weapon would be a bore.

 

SSH in DG is pretty much the best bind for every player to obtain to achieve maximum DG exp. If it was only the best bind for melee, or if it was only the best bind for keyers...that would be a different story. Obviously there will always be a best bow, a best weapon, etc. But these are for certain roles. But it seems like every role in DG would pretty much love to have a SSH.

 

like when jagex added recipe for disaster and the 'dark' gloves were (still is?) the best glove for all styles?

[Sir_Kurity]

There are alternatives though. And gloves really arent that gamechanging.

[Obtaurian]

There are alternatives though. And gloves really arent that gamechanging.

 

Only worse alternatives. Just like with the SSH. Gloves are pretty significant, too. Dark gloves provide more strength than full Bandos.