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Petition and Fraud? Mistake and Lies? Other? (results on page 4)


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#1
Ts_Stormrage
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Before you vote!!!:

KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE OUTCOME OF THE WILDERNESS & FREE TRADE POLL

This is about how Jagex is getting the support it apparently needs to get these updates implemented!!! Your vote here does not mean you are for or against the Old Wildy and Unbalanced Trade, this is to see if you agree with the way they handled it! Note that you may always change your vote after listening to arguments (this can be done here, unlike at Jagex' poll)...


In light of my Tip.it Times article of this week, there have been some quite heated discussions on wether or not the whole first version of the poll for Old Wilderness and Unbalanced Trade was intentional or not...

I wanted to see what you believe...

The story is a familiar one. Jagex brings out a poll to gauge support for the changes, and that poll needs nothing but a name to get your vote registered. After less then 48 hours and almost 1.6m votes it got changed to a proper poll like the one we've seen on their main site before...

Jagex stated it was intentional to have a petition first, and a proper poll after that, because they wanted to gauge the support for the changes first. Since the removal of these features caused a lot of peopel to leave, Jagex wanted to make sure that, should they reverse the changes, it would not happen again...


However... I do not believe this is the case... I believe that Jagex made a mistake in running a 'petition' first where one could enter every name imaginable... Some people say that the lack of a password barrier was done so that the ones who had forgotten their password could also express their support, but we all know it takes all of 3 minutes to get your password back...
I believe that Jagex at some point figured that they NEEDED to bring back the old and popular content in order to get more revenue from subscriptions and banner hits, and therefor would make a poll that would pretty much guarantee the support needed... They didn't expect the fraud would happen on such a massive scale, and therefor after 2 days it was quickly changed to a proper poll...

And then still not where one could select one of 4 options: yes to both Wild and Trade, yes to wild no to trade, no to wild yes to trade, or no to both...


What I want to know is how you think about the way this poll was done and Jagex' reactions to the changes they made...

In short, do you believe:
A: Jagex is telling the truth about the first version, and that it was meant to see how responsive the masses would be.

B: Jagex is lying about the reasons they have for not doing a proper poll the first time around, and cannot own up to their mistake.

C: Jagex is incompetent because if they did mean to see how many players were interested, they would've done a password-requiring petition.

D: other, plz explain

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#2
Toad
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Jagex is telling the truth, the disclaimer about Guiness meant they have been in the record books previously & free trade is already being worked on.
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#3
Ts_Stormrage
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I may have to add that this has nothing to do with the outcome of the petition/poll/whatever the hell we have now...

This is all about the way they handled "gettign the support" from the community...

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#4
Swiller2
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I voted C. I think Jagex went about this all wrong reguardless of what their true intentions were.

#5
EU Slayer
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I think they were telling the truth that did did the first 'poll' to gauge response.

I don't know which mod did this. I don't know why they did it. If they're looking for money, I can tell them I don't have any as I'm a student. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over 4 years of RuneScape. Skills that I have worked hard for and people like them can't take them away. If they give me my particles back now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for them, I will not pursue them. But if they don't, I will look for them, I will find them, and they won't like what'll happen


#6
Hajutze
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They either lied or they are dumb .... and I believe they told us the truth ...

#7
tripsis
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I'm not going to judge what Jagex's intentions were or if they lied, etc. But if they always intended to have a petition followed by a proper poll, I think that's pretty stupid and doesn't make much sense (given their reasoning). They said that the petition was to gauge the support for the changes... well a poll is an even better way to gauge support. So that doesn't make much sense. More likely the petition, which was surrounded by controversy, was a way of promoting the changes and giving RuneScape some extra publicity. While a poll still would have done that, I think that because the petition was more controversial there was more discussion, more raging articles, and thus the information was spread more quickly.

I guess we'll never know :P
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#8
Capt_Davy
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D) I believe after interacting with the community (well at least more than they used to) for these past 3 years, I think its a bit of a no-brainer to Jagex that a very sizeable part of the population has never liked the changes made in 2007. Obviously, reversing the changes would be something those players would like, and may bring back some of the players who quit due to those updates. if nothing else, it generates hype, and will pad their bottom line. So...my view is that they had already begun work on readapting newer content to fit with the older, post-wildy content, and just to seem fair, they ran the referendum/poll later so it would appear to come from players demanding its return rather than jagex coming up with something.

My personal opinion is that the referendum was to generate hype, and meant nothing, and the poll is what "matters", even though the outcome was easily predicted beforehand....

Or maybe they're covering their asses so if the whole thing backfires, they can say "hey you wanted it, not us" -.-
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#9
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Incompetent.

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#10
jondea0
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I don't understand this hype about the fraud of the first one, the first poll is now irrelevant because of the new one and was just there to see if anyone bothered. The new one speaks for itself so there is no damage done by the first one, if it was the other way around and 91% didn't want the change then it would have been reflected in the passworded referendum surely? They have properly explained it all with well laid out bullet points and in the longer and more expanded posts they have admitted the big potential drawbacks. Just because an update will bring players back is not a bad thing it just means it is a more widely preferred option. Basically you are complaining that Jagex are asking you what you think. And is not selfish, if anything Jagex were financially impacted by the botters more than the small amount that quit.

#11
Bloodstain
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I don't understand this hype about the fraud of the first one, the first poll is now irrelevant because of the new one and was just there to see if anyone bothered. The new one speaks for itself so there is no damage done by the first one, if it was the other way around and 91% didn't want the change then it would have been reflected in the passworded referendum surely? They have properly explained it all with well laid out bullet points and in the longer and more expanded posts they have admitted the big potential drawbacks. Just because an update will bring players back is not a bad thing it just means it is a more widely preferred option. Basically you are complaining that Jagex are asking you what you think. And is not selfish, if anything Jagex were financially impacted by the botters more than the small amount that quit.


Sums it up pretty well. But really, who cares and why does it even matter? They have a proper poll up now so why does anything that happened before that matter? This exact topic was beaten to death in the referendum thread like a dead horse, kinda a pointless topic
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#12
Ring_World
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Nothing clear really. The rational for the first poll was so that former players could vote too, even though they forgot their password.

They probably didn't anticipate people abusing the voting system as much as they did so they released the second poll.

my guess is just that , whether it is an outright lie or incompetence is just for debate. Of course it is entirely possible that that was the said plan, which still falls under incompetent because they should've told that there would be a vote after and that the first poll was a petition.

So we will never know if it was a lie or not but the fact that we can think either way is from incompetence. So that is my answer

#13
green9090
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They pretty clearly lied. I refuse to believe that they're so stupid that they honestly thought the first version would be an accurate judge of anything- it was publicity and a way to demonstrate interest in their game.

Not to say that they aren't incompetent, but in this particular case they were lying on top of that.
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#14
All_Is_Great
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I don't understand this hype about the fraud of the first one, the first poll is now irrelevant because of the new one and was just there to see if anyone bothered. The new one speaks for itself so there is no damage done by the first one, if it was the other way around and 91% didn't want the change then it would have been reflected in the passworded referendum surely? They have properly explained it all with well laid out bullet points and in the longer and more expanded posts they have admitted the big potential drawbacks. Just because an update will bring players back is not a bad thing it just means it is a more widely preferred option. Basically you are complaining that Jagex are asking you what you think. And is not selfish, if anything Jagex were financially impacted by the botters more than the small amount that quit.


Sums it up pretty well. But really, who cares and why does it even matter? They have a proper poll up now so why does anything that happened before that matter? This exact topic was beaten to death in the referendum thread like a dead horse, kinda a pointless topic


Exactly. It just makes me think all the people who are against it (read: 7%) are bitter, and think maybe if the poll wasn't done, they'd have a majority...

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#15
Bloodstain
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They pretty clearly lied. I refuse to believe that they're so stupid that they honestly thought the first version would be an accurate judge of anything- it was publicity and a way to demonstrate interest in their game.

Not to say that they aren't incompetent, but in this particular case they were lying on top of that.


Can you prove that?
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#16
Dragonlordjl
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The whole poll is a sham, tbh. They just created the poll so that they'd have a defense to use when people inevitably complain after the Wild/Free Trade are brought back.

"Sorry guys, over 1m people voted they wanted this!"
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#17
la la la
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They didn't lie. The players lied by submitting runescape users that they did not create or own.

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#18
Ts_Stormrage
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They didn't lie. The players lied by submitting runescape users that they did not create or own.


So jagex made a mistake then by allowing that, while they have the technology to make a proper poll?

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#19
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They are not lieing

#20
green9090
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They didn't lie. The players lied by submitting runescape users that they did not create or own.

This is a really common argument in RS for some reason. People don't blame Jagex for making the GE ridiculously easy to manipulate, they blame players for doing the only logical thing and taking advantage of it. They don't blame Jagex for not being harsh enough about banning bots, they blame players who bot when they know the worst that'll happen is a temp ban and maybe some stat resetting. And now, they don't blame Jagex for encouraging players to vote multiple times by making a vote that allows it, but instead blame the players who did exactly what they'd be expected to do.

The fact is, when you're in charge of controlling or organizing people, it's more often than not your own damn fault if those people don't do what you want. The key is to make what you want them to do be the best course of action- if somebody can profit from doing something you'd rather they didn't (manipulation clans, spam voting), then you need to CHANGE SOMETHING so that it's no longer a smart thing to do (remove GE limits, implement a login on the vote).

In the case of the vote, anyone who thought for half a second about what a player who wants the wilderness back is going to do would realize, oh hey, they're going to write a script to vote over and over. That is Jagex's fault because is was a direct and inescapable result of making a petition in which anyone can vote an infinite number of times. Why blame players for doing exactly what Jagex all but instructed them to do?
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