What is your TRUE Combat Level

[NukeMarine]

**On page 3, was talking to another about this being more important for those in the endgame of RS ie those with 99 in all combat skills now looking for the best items. Of note, by letting items affect combat level on the theory the better then the more expensive, players with the highest combat levels in the game are carrying the best items. As such, they can only be attacked in the wild by players with nearby combat levels ie equally expensive items in inventory. Perhaps a point to consider, but remember that it would then impact lower levels**

 

With the return of the wilderness and free trade, all players are going to be impacted by the Combat Formula again. As such, now is as good as time as any to say that the thing is still as broken as it was since 2001.

 

It's been my argument that the current Combat Formula only represents the combat potential of a unarmed, unarmored player with nothing in inventory. You should fair as well against such a player as the equivalent NPC with the same combat level. Adding foods means he has higher life points. Adding armor means he has higher defense (somewhere in the triangle). Adding a weapon means better atk/str or range or mag. Adding potions means boosts to various combat skills. Put it this way, what's scarier: Steel Dragon or a fully equipped Level 138?

 

So, for discussion value, should the combat formula be revamped in such a way to take into account more than just skills? In other words, have a Combat Potential based on skills and inventory. My opinions on the matter:

 

-Each leg of the combat triangle can have it's potential displayed for the player

-Highest potential and type can be displayed to other players

-Game balance mechanics: Every minute outside of wilderness, your highest combat level achieved in that minute will be displayed

-Game balance: In the Wilderness, combat level can immediately increase (friend gives better weapon). It will reflect true level if out of combat for one minute like above.

-This can fix the combat triangle, as any superior weapon, spell or bow introduced would increase the combat level of whoever wielded it.

-Removes any benefits of pures, as their true combat potential is displayed.

-Some detriments as it's very volatile. Changes with every bite of food. Prayer, Summoning and Herblore have enormous impact on changing levels making this a complicated process.

-Detriment - spells, depending on the book, represent more power than the mage level suggests. Access to these can be determined by book and runes in inventory.

 

FACR (Freq. Answers to Common Replies)

 

R- This is too complicated

A- Agree. Instead of worrying if minor skills or food could boost levels, let's just concentrate on weapons and armor. We can all agree that adding better weapon makes it like you have more str/atk. Likewise having better armor is like having better def. In addition, these are easy to see when looking at the equipment status screen.

 

R- Why did you list firemaking, slayer, dungeoneering, etc

A- Some quests or skills offer an item or latent ability that offers some advantage in combat. This was most notable with Extreme Potions, though other things like fire cape, RFD gloves, chaotics also come about. Anyway, as this is too complicated, I think Jagex can fix matters just by letting weapons and armor affect combat potential.

 

R- Levels would change just by switching armor or dropping it.

A- It's based on what's in your INVENTORY, which is both equipped and unequipped armor. Switching armor in the middle of a fight won't change how the game views your combat potential. In addition, there's also a time gap of 1 minute OUTSIDE of combat before you combat potential will be considered lower. However, if you pick up more powerful weapons and armor then your combat potential will raise immediately.

 

R- It's fine just the way it is

A- Depends on if you think the Wilderness levels are a good idea. If you think being gradually able to attack outside your level as you go deeper, then I don't think things are fine. Back when Wild levels were developed, a Level 126 was limited to Rune armor. Back then, difficult to obtain high level combat skills seperated players so seperating the Wildy based only on that helped a lot w/ exception of pures. Now, large number of players are 138 (or at least 99 atk/str/mag/rng/def/con), but it's the armor and weapons that determine who's the most deadly. Instead of skills, now it's time and gp in getting the equipment that seperates power of players. As such, adding in armor and weapons to determine who can attack who in the lower and upper wild makes sense.

 

Here's a really good benefit to this: High level armor costs more in time and/or money. It stands to reason, that 138's that wear the best armor and weapons have the highest combat potential. In the current system, a 138 not risking anything can attack him and has a slight chance of killing him with no risk. However, in a new system only those with nearly the same combat level can attack a fully equipped 138. In other words only a guy risking equally high level equipment could attack him. If you think about it, it offers method to reliably risk high level gear as those you can attack at your combat potential will drop high level gear if you kill them.

 

Now, if you think gradual increase of the wild is a bad thing, that it should be free-for-all in the wilderness, then combat levels are a moot point. In such situations, it's all about who can kill who.

 

R- What about NPC aggressiveness? This will radically change that, such as the dogs in Brimhaven.

A- The new NPC's in Nex's dungeon actually have a different aggressiveness rules. IF you can bring the relevant combat stance (mage, range, melee) in defense to above +200, then NPC's of that attack type will not attack you. Jagex could easily apply this to all NPC's in the game, so now being attacked depends not on your level but on how much defense you have against their attack.

[green9090]

Way too complicated to be practical. At a certain point you just have to accept that combat level is not a perfect representation of combat potential and move on, because any attempt by Jagex to accurately assess the advantage of every single aspect of a player and calculate a level is going to be just as flawed as the much simpler and less irritating system we have now.

 

To fix pures, make defense level add significant damage soaking/reduction so that a player with defense has an actual advantage over one without. That's the only adjustment that needs to be made, in my eyes.

[Gandalf14141]

Personally I say leave it the way it is.

[Crossed_Body]

Way too complicated to be practical. At a certain point you just have to accept that combat level is not a perfect representation of combat potential and move on, because any attempt by Jagex to accurately assess the advantage of every single aspect of a player and calculate a level is going to be just as flawed as the much simpler and less irritating system we have now.

 

This. There are just too many factors to take into account. I do agree that a level138 player is clearly stronger than level 700, given the right circunstances.

[NukeMarine]

Way too complicated to be practical. At a certain point you just have to accept that combat level is not a perfect representation of combat potential and move on, because any attempt by Jagex to accurately assess the advantage of every single aspect of a player and calculate a level is going to be just as flawed as the much simpler and less irritating system we have now.

 

To fix pures, make defense level add significant damage soaking/reduction so that a player with defense has an actual advantage over one without. That's the only adjustment that needs to be made, in my eyes.

I don't think it's that complicated. For direct offense and defense it's easy, as you can see that when you bring up your equipped screen. This just puts those numbers into an easier to understand combat pontential. At the top of the equip screen you see all three combat pontentials. By your player name would be your highest combat potential (maybe even a little symbol for the type you are). Only difference is, it's not based on what you actually equipped but what you have in inventory (and can potentially equip fast).

 

The complicated part comes from regenerative or boosting potions and foods. Even then, it's not that complicated. Being able to restore prayer and lifepoints in a big factor in combat. Likewise, boosts are so important that PvPrs had overloads removed from PvP.

 

Anyway, the way it works now is just not good. A level 138 with Barrows is just not as powerful as a level 138 in full Torva, divine and chaotic. Radically different combat pontential despite the same level.

[Sir_Squab]

I agree to a certain extent...but look at barrows. Their armour isn't included in their combat level. Really, other then defense, I don't think anything should be added, although I see where your coming from.

 

But, tertiary skills, agility, slayer, really? Herblore I understand, at higher levels it makes a difference, but that's pretty much PVM and a bit of safe PVP anyhow.

 

I don't think all that could realistically be included in combat. Too many factors. I mean, would someones combat level lower if they eat change? Change if they tribrid and switch gear or armour? That would honestly be too confusing.

 

If anything, as the first replier said, other then the defense/strength disparity, it should be left alone. But even then, it's a PVP vs PVM thing - higher def is more useful for PVM for either bosses or lasting longer at monsters.

[Normalize]

Personally I say leave it the way it is.

 

agreed

[NukeMarine]

I agree to a certain extent...but look at barrows. Their armour isn't included in their combat level. Really, other then defense, I don't think anything should be added, although I see where your coming from.

Believe it or not, it was the Barrow Brothers and the evidence that their combat level was based on the idea of having 100 in atk, str, and hitpoints that initially excited this idea many years ago (I made a thread here called 'What would your NPC level be?' or something like that because of it). These guys were more powerful than their level suggested because they counted as having armor and weapons, unlike most other npc's. It didn't take much to develop the idea that players have a better combat pontential than just their skills suggest.

 

But, tertiary skills, agility, slayer, really? Herblore I understand, at higher levels it makes a difference, but that's pretty much PVM and a bit of safe PVP anyhow.

Really, Herblore if they modified a bit can be like Prayer and Summoning. Been discussed before, but it's a simple matter of adding more untradeable but beneficial potions at the lower end of the skill. The other things are really, really iffy though Agility, Firemaking, and Slayer have a slight impact on combat potential in some ways. Now, if Jagex allowed that, they can actually be more creative in how other skills can come into play in combat.

 

I don't think all that could realistically be included in combat. Too many factors. I mean, would someones combat level lower if they eat change? Change if they tribrid and switch gear or armour? That would honestly be too confusing.

I know, I mention it as being complicated, but that's mainly meaning for a player to keep track of it. However, it's not complicated for the game system to calculate. In addition, I think allowing it updated on the minute would be cool. As for hybriding, that would not change as the system I talk about looks at what you have in your inventory and what you're actively wearing. That's why it undercuts pures and sand baggers in the duel arena.

 

About the duel arena, it'd be cool if you see how the changes in rules affect both you and your opponents combat potential. Talk about removing a major method of scamming.

 

If anything, as the first replier said, other then the defense/strength disparity, it should be left alone. But even then, it's a PVP vs PVM thing - higher def is more useful for PVM for either bosses or lasting longer at monsters.

Again, I doubted there'd be 100% agreement. Thanks for the reasoned replies.

[Big_Stingman]

Very interesting idea, although I think it might kill some of that PvP surprising when all of the sudden your opponent whips out an item you were not expecting.

[Serpent Eye]

I think the only skill not already affecting combat levels should be Slayer.

 

I say leave well-enough alone.

 

 

Edit: I'm not saying they SHOULD add Slayer, it just seems to be the only other skill that would make sense.

[Bladewing]

and how exactly does slayer increase your combat ability? LOL

[Serpent Eye]

and how exactly does slayer increase your combat ability? LOL

I made a slight edit to my above post.

 

I don't think they SHOULD have Slayer affect your combat level, I just mean to say that it would be the only other one to make sense.

 

It's a skill based entirely around combat... >.>

 

In my opinion, it would make a lot more sense than having Herblore or Agility affect it...

[green9090]

and how exactly does slayer increase your combat ability? LOL

+1. Adding slayer to combat level is easily the dumbest idea on the table here.

[Bladewing]

firemaking makes more sense than slayer

[Serpent Eye]

firemaking makes more sense than slayer

-.-

 

Blah.

 

Firemaking has nothing to do with combat. :<

[ghjkl]

Ye it does

You can burn logs that you loot from monsters

[Bladewing]

if your opponent has a high firemaking level, it is less likely that his handcannon will explode, rendering him defenseless

[SirIzenhime]

and how exactly does slayer increase your combat ability? LOL

+1. Adding slayer to combat level is easily the dumbest idea on the table here.

 

Nah, I think adding skills like Fletching and Runecrafting would be dumber.

At least slayer allows you to kill more things with combat...a whole like...30 things :rolleyes:

 

(geez, you guys really like to insult people too much just because they had an odd idea, you can try being a little nicer about things...instead of flat out calling them dumb...)

[Bladewing]

(geez, you guys really like to insult people too much just because they had an odd idea, you can try being a little nicer about things...instead of flat out calling them dumb...)

since you guys is plural, i'd like to say that i haven't called anyone here dumb. neither has green, the person you quoted:

 

Adding slayer to combat level is easily the dumbest idea on the table here.

the dumbest idea

idea

[green9090]

and how exactly does slayer increase your combat ability? LOL

+1. Adding slayer to combat level is easily the dumbest idea on the table here.

 

Nah, I think adding skills like Fletching and Runecrafting would be dumber.

At least slayer allows you to kill more things with combat...a whole like...30 things :rolleyes:

 

(geez, you guys really like to insult people too much just because they had an odd idea, you can try being a little nicer about things...instead of flat out calling them dumb...)

By "on the table," I meant "on the table." The poll cites it as one of the tertiary skills.

[Vulxai]

I think it's fine as is. It's not necessarily your combat level as what you can do with your combat level.

[SirIzenhime]

 

since you guys is plural, i'd like to say that i haven't called anyone here dumb. neither has green, the person you quoted:

 

 

You don't have to physically say "You're dumb" for it to be apparent that you think they are.

It also isn't just on this thread I've noticed it. Don't like to much into it, it happens on like every other thread that's made here. If anything, people being jerks makes it more fun to read.

[NukeMarine]

 

since you guys is plural, i'd like to say that i haven't called anyone here dumb. neither has green, the person you quoted:

 

 

You don't have to physically say "You're dumb" for it to be apparent that you think they are.

It also isn't just on this thread I've noticed it. Don't like to much into it, it happens on like every other thread that's made here. If anything, people being jerks makes it more fun to read.

 

I think in this case, he was refering to one of the choices and not the person offering the choices. Back on subject: I included firemaking because of the hand cannon, agility because of energy for running, and herblore due to non-tradeables. Heck, in reality, quest completion gets you access to some nice gear and abilities but that can be accounted for what you have in inventory or what books you have called up. In reality, if Jagex modified the way they approach the combat potential (level), they can also make other skills have direct impact on combat. Imagine if higher woodcutting gives you better bonus when using axe based weapons for example.

 

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback so far.

[PereGrin]

Hmm, to answer who is scarier, a Steel Dragon or a 138 is easy. Steel Dragon, hands down. If I go to where Steel Dragons are, there is a chance I could die. If I go find a 138 in their usual habitat, there is 0 chance I could die to them. Steel Dragons can attack me with dragonfire if I go anywhere close to where they reside. 138s cannot attack me unless I purposefully ignore the multiple warnings and hop over the fence and purposefully go to where they are able to kill me.

 

Basically, you don't get a warning when you are near a steel dragon that can attack you.

 

However, to even venture to a place where a 138 can attack you is 100% impossible to do accidentally. If you are stupid and choose to ignore the multiple warnings screaming at you that this could be a very stupid idea, then you deserve to die.

 

138s also do not have the ability to constantly breathe dragonfire from a great distance.

 

[hide]

The game will never select a pvp or bh server for the random world that you log into.

 

You must hop the wilderness ditch or click to enter the clearly marked unsafe portal in order to enter any unsafe pvp. You must acknowledge that you know it is unsafe.

 

You must affirm your choice to log into a pvp or BH world before logging in.

[/hide]

 

Why include slayer as an option to affect combat level? Are you obsessed with changing a system that is not broken? Maybe suggest ways to fix something that actually does not work, like how my Nettle-weave shirt clips through my Untrimmed Hp cape between my avatar's shoulder blades.

[NastyJenny]

A pity something like that can't be implemented in the existing game...