What is your TRUE Combat Level

[NukeMarine]

Guys, consider from the following angle If items increase combat levels:

 

Players that are already skill combat 138. Those with the best (and likely most expensive) gear most likely have the highest item combat level. Such players risking such money can only be attacked by players with equally high item combat levels, who most likely are also risking a lot of money. Therefore, wimpy level 138 with only a dragon claw can't 1 item these guys cause his item combat level is too low. Three skill combat 138's, but only 2 can fight each other and have chance at reward.

 

Instead of pures having deceptively low numbers, you now have a system where you want the highest combat level to have a chance to fight and kill guys wearing very expensive stuff.

 

Granted, it would help matters if Jagex makes going into the wilderness automatically skull with no item protect then.

[Riemis]

You can boost +6 with spicy stew to make extreme attack at 82 herblore... Making herblore a combat lvl boosting skill at 88 would mean serious pkers would go out of their way to not train herblore past a certain lvl where they can boost to make them but not reach the lvl where it would affect their combat lvl.

 

Having the items you carry influence your combat lvl means cluers or abyss RCers would try to go in the wild naked in the hopes that only lower lvls would have the possibility to attack them .

 

Herblore directly influencing combat level would not be a good idea. Instead, the combat level should depend on whether the player has the potions in his inventory.

 

And about your second point, isn't that the point? only (relatively) evenly matched people get to fight each other in low wilderness. If Jagex wants risk, they can just move it a few levels deeper into the wilderness.

In that case, I also want my combat level lowered if I'm only using ranged but my combat level is melee based.

And I also want it lowered if I'm not using my prayer.

[All_Is_Great]

IMO it works perfectly fine the way it is.

 

I don't get the point of adding all those other things to combat levels.

[NukeMarine]

Herblore directly influencing combat level would not be a good idea. Instead, the combat level should depend on whether the player has the potions in his inventory.

 

And about your second point, isn't that the point? only (relatively) evenly matched people get to fight each other in low wilderness. If Jagex wants risk, they can just move it a few levels deeper into the wilderness.

In that case, I also want my combat level lowered if I'm only using ranged but my combat level is melee based.

And I also want it lowered if I'm not using my prayer.

If items impacted combat level, then having range items would raise in in the range combat capacity ie your str and atk levels are over shadowed by your rng skill and range items.

 

About prayer, it's been suggested before that one can "deactivate" prayer at the prayer guild so that it doesn't impact your combat level. This would put it on par with summoning where not having scrolls in inventory for a certain time remove the impact on your combat level.

 

The same idea could be modified to account for herblore IF AND ONLY IF Jagex included more lower level untradeable potions with useful benefits. Then herblore can fairly affect combat level, but only if you carry untradeables.

[Ginger_Warrior]

IMO it works perfectly fine the way it is.

 

I don't get the point of adding all those other things to combat levels.

In what sense is it working? If combat level is meant to be a relative measure of KO ability, and a level 50 pure could easily wipe the floor with a level 70 main, how's it working?

[Cyon]

I'm confused... are you suggesting the combat changes because combat level doesn't accurately display combat potential?

[NukeMarine]

I'm confused... are you suggesting the combat changes because combat level doesn't accurately display combat potential?

Not combat, just what actually determines combat level.

 

Consider level 138's. From now on, barring some skill that impacts combat levels, they are not getting any higher. They're technically at their peak. Yet, we know with more and more high level gears these level 138's will become more and more powerful despite staying at the same level.

 

Is it then unreasonable to suggest Jagex should seriously consider to allowing combat items in inventory (not just worn) to actually determine combat level? Beyond that, could other items (potions, foods, spells, etc) also be used to determine combat level?

[Cyon]

I'm confused... are you suggesting the combat changes because combat level doesn't accurately display combat potential?

Not combat, just what actually determines combat level.

 

Consider level 138's. From now on, barring some skill that impacts combat levels, they are not getting any higher. They're technically at their peak. Yet, we know with more and more high level gears these level 138's will become more and more powerful despite staying at the same level.

 

Is it then unreasonable to suggest Jagex should seriously consider to allowing combat items in inventory (not just worn) to actually determine combat level? Beyond that, could other items (potions, foods, spells, etc) also be used to determine combat level?

 

Not unreasonable to suggest. But unreasonable to provide a better combat level formula alternative than what we have now.

[Hilramorre]

As much as I like how the OP is trying to think outside the box and bring new ideas to the table. I must say I find this to be a terrible one. There are problems yes, but this is not the solution. This is far too complicated and makes combat way too predictable. I will not get into the issue of how this system is very easily abused as many others have already pointed it out. Instead I am going to bring up a different point.

 

What made the wilderness so exciting was the fear of the unknown. You did not know what you might encounter even in a one on one fight and that made it very exciting. The OP seems to want to be able to have evenly matched fights without fear of your opponent having skills or items that are not easily recognizable. However you already have that option. The Duel Arena allows you to set rules such as; no potions, no prayers, no food, no summons. You can tailor your fight to exactly what you want. If you want to make sure that both players are using the same type of food then you open up a trade screen and show your inventory to each other then immediately start the duel. This was used all the time in the old system and worked very well.

 

The way the old wilderness was, while perhaps flawed, was very fun and I can not help but imagine that this type of overly complicated system meant to take out any surprise from a fight will only make the game less enjoyable. Good initiative, bad judgment. But I like that you are trying to think outside the box.

[Cheefoo]

Magic and ranged should affect combat level more. Someone with level 99 magic and 99 range is equal in combat level to someone with 75 strength and 75 attack, or something like that.

 

If extremes were allowed to be used in dangerous PvP, I think herblore would have to affect combat level. Maybe make extreme potions/overloads increase your combat level if you're under their affects or they're in your inventory, like summoning pouches in PvP/BH worlds. Or, the higher your herblore level is, the more effects you gain from any potions, so herblore would always be counted as part of your combat level, not just because of extremes and other untradable potions.

[Quyneax]

I would be ok with allowing extremes to add 1 to your combat level, overloads perhaps 2 (140 combat :D) , if you carry them/are under their influence. However with extremes, the problem is they wear off and become super pots, so the second point would be impossible.

 

Ranged and magic can add a few more levels, to be on par with melee or at least more. Currently the rule is 1/3rd atk + str and 1/2 ranged level. If that became, say, 2/3 ranged level, you would be ranged-based at 99 range & 99 str/atk, which is maybe a bit much, but it could be 55-60% or so (e.g. 99 ranged would be ranged-based with 81-89 atk/str instead of 75 or so.

[Goldenjkered]

I went for Tertairy skills and Other. Having the option of extremes and overloads is obviously a big advantage, especially since you can't buy them if you don't have the herblore level to use them. Other because your poll didn't include dungeoneering. Having a Chaotic Rapier against someone who has a whip is a bit of an uneven match.

[All_Is_Great]

IMO it works perfectly fine the way it is.

 

I don't get the point of adding all those other things to combat levels.

In what sense is it working? If combat level is meant to be a relative measure of KO ability, and a level 50 pure could easily wipe the floor with a level 70 main, how's it working?

 

Their combat abilities. Staying capabilities (like tanking), damaging capabilities (attacking), etc. And yes, it's working perfectly fine.

 

A level 70 main can and will beat a pure in a dm most of the time. If the pure gets lucky and specs a 250-250 with a dds, then a change in combat level won't affect anything at all.

 

Your statement proves you know nothing about PKing, so why don't you either try it out first, and then make comments, or just don't say stuff that you have no basis on.

 

It doesn't need to be any more complicated than it already is.

If this whole thing stemmed from the ext/ovls being allowed in the new/old wilderness debate, I see it as kind of pointless.

 

OVLS and EXTS were deemed unfair to use in a pvp world, so why would it be deemed fair in the new/old wilderness. Ovls and exts weren't around back then, and I bet enough people would've complained to make them banned anyways.

[pulli23]

Why does somebody from the same combat level always have to be equal in strength?

[All_Is_Great]

Why does somebody from the same combat level always have to be equal in strength?

 

They don't.

 

Combat isn't just about strength. Some people can specialize in defence, others in strength, etc.

It's sort of like games where you level up, and you can spend points on which stat to increase, defence, dexterity, strength, accuracy, etc. Not everyone is going to end up with the same build, and each have their advantages, which is why people are specialized, and average stats in everything aren't neccessarily the best. Still, at mid-high levels a main can handle a pure very easily. At lower levels, they risk being KO'd by mage.

 

The way I see it, equipment should have nothing to do with combat level. In every other game I've played, I've never seen equipment change a characters level. Of course, different tiers of equipment and meant to enhance combat capabilities, that's the whole point of them.

[PereGrin]

Why does somebody from the same combat level always have to be equal in strength?

 

They don't.

 

Combat isn't just about strength. Some people can specialize in defence, others in strength, etc.

It's sort of like games where you level up, and you can spend points on which stat to increase, defence, dexterity, strength, accuracy, etc. Not everyone is going to end up with the same build, and each have their advantages, which is why people are specialized, and average stats in everything aren't neccessarily the best. Still, at mid-high levels a main can handle a pure very easily. At lower levels, they risk being KO'd by mage.

 

The way I see it, equipment should have nothing to do with combat level. In every other game I've played, I've never seen equipment change a characters level. Of course, different tiers of equipment and meant to enhance combat capabilities, that's the whole point of them.

I'm fairly certain he meant that more along the lines of strength = general combat ability.

 

So more like, "Why does somebody from the same combat level always have to be equal in [general combat ability]?" Namely, why do they have to be evenly matched? I don't think they do. No pvp system I have ever seen only allows you to fight other people who are identical in skill and ability. That would be no fun, and you wouldn't be able to get much better at it.

[Dazzuh]

Could get way too confusing, I think it's fine how it is personally.

[Dark_Yeng]

No need to change RuneScape to anything like those Combat Formula. It is fine the way it is.

 

Voted for option 1, if I had to choose one.

[PereGrin]

No need to change RuneScape to anything like those Combat Formula. It is fine the way it is.

 

Voted for option 1, if I had to choose one.

 

You can choose multiple.

[All_Is_Great]

Why does somebody from the same combat level always have to be equal in strength?

 

They don't.

 

Combat isn't just about strength. Some people can specialize in defence, others in strength, etc.

It's sort of like games where you level up, and you can spend points on which stat to increase, defence, dexterity, strength, accuracy, etc. Not everyone is going to end up with the same build, and each have their advantages, which is why people are specialized, and average stats in everything aren't neccessarily the best. Still, at mid-high levels a main can handle a pure very easily. At lower levels, they risk being KO'd by mage.

 

The way I see it, equipment should have nothing to do with combat level. In every other game I've played, I've never seen equipment change a characters level. Of course, different tiers of equipment and meant to enhance combat capabilities, that's the whole point of them.

I'm fairly certain he meant that more along the lines of strength = general combat ability.

 

So more like, "Why does somebody from the same combat level always have to be equal in [general combat ability]?" Namely, why do they have to be evenly matched? I don't think they do. No pvp system I have ever seen only allows you to fight other people who are identical in skill and ability. That would be no fun, and you wouldn't be able to get much better at it.

 

That's what I thought at first :P

 

I still stand by what I said, and like you said, I wouldn't like a system where everything was measured out so you can only fight people identical in skill and ability. Then it would just come down to luck, as if we need even more luck in this system now. Looking at you Korasi's... <_<

[Ginger_Warrior]

So more like, "Why does somebody from the same combat level always have to be equal in [general combat ability]?" Namely, why do they have to be evenly matched? I don't think they do. No pvp system I have ever seen only allows you to fight other people who are identical in skill and ability. That would be no fun, and you wouldn't be able to get much better at it.

Agreed. But then, I've never played a game that so crudely tries to squeeze lots and lots of skill levels into one number for the supposed convenince of everyone else. My objection is that combat level itself isn't a meaningful term. Attack level is, strength level is, defence level is, HP is, because these all have a direct influence on somebody's ability to hit and take damage. Combat level is an inconsistent umbrella term that doesn't fully represent what it stands for.

 

To take another RPG as an example, you say Blissey has 225 HP and 135 SpDef base stats, but you don't say its average base stat is 90 because this says nothing meaningful about its strengths against special sweepers and horrific weakness against physical sweeps. 225HP is meaningful, 135 SpDef is meaningful, trying to make an average between them isn't.

 

Whether you include potions, food, armour or whatever is really irrelevant to the argument that the term itself is just an artificial number.

 

The question really is: What does 'combat level' actually mean?

[ForsakenMage]

I personally think the current system is fine the way it is. Adding in skills that do not directly involve combat would just get too tricky to deal with, especially in the case of skillers who do not want "combat" to begin with. :P

 

I like to think of the current non-combat skills as talents that build up a character's professions, so to speak. Yea, it sounds like WoW, but that's essentially to me how it works. You have a system that levels up combat, and another system that allows you to build up skills that would be beneficial to your character. :)

[J35u5_M4]

Combat level is based on the player's skills, it should not be based on their inventory, for two main reasons:

 

a) During a fight you could change combat levels while you equip stuff, being too, like green9090 said, unpractical.

 

b) One's combat level should be based upon one's combat abilities rather than the equipment, I see your logic of including it, though I don't agree with it.

 

Now, I think the way combat level is calculated right now is good enough, I don't think Slayer should be included, as much as I like it, and as much as related to combat it is, I don't think it should really affect one's combat level. That out of the question, I think the way combat is calculated right now is just good.

[NukeMarine]

Combat level is based on the player's skills, it should not be based on their inventory, for two main reasons:

 

a) During a fight you could change combat levels while you equip stuff, being too, like green9090 said, unpractical.

 

b) One's combat level should be based upon one's combat abilities rather than the equipment, I see your logic of including it, though I don't agree with it.

 

Now, I think the way combat level is calculated right now is good enough, I don't think Slayer should be included, as much as I like it, and as much as related to combat it is, I don't think it should really affect one's combat level. That out of the question, I think the way combat is calculated right now is just good.

A) Again, it's what you're carrying, not what you're wearing. Changing armor won't change what you're carrying. That's in the first post and explained throughout.

 

B) I pointed out later, and edited the first post to point out that the game now has a plethora of combat level 138's. From there on out, unless the system changes, they will have the same combat level. Yet each and every updated weapon and armor and spell and potion will make these guys more and more powerful. However, you did say this is just disagreement so that's fair.

 

Right now, we're only at level 80 armor and weapons, so imagine when level 85 and 90 weapons and armor get introduced. In addition, these items are EXPENSIVE either in time and/or gp. However, guys with enormous combat potential via wearing expensive armor are still prey to guys with very low combat potential by 1 item. If nothing else, altering the combat level system to take into account AT LEAST weapons and armor and spells can encourage the use of high level armor in risky PvP areas.

[PereGrin]

So more like, "Why does somebody from the same combat level always have to be equal in [general combat ability]?" Namely, why do they have to be evenly matched? I don't think they do. No pvp system I have ever seen only allows you to fight other people who are identical in skill and ability. That would be no fun, and you wouldn't be able to get much better at it.

Agreed. But then, I've never played a game that so crudely tries to squeeze lots and lots of skill levels into one number for the supposed convenince of everyone else. My objection is that combat level itself isn't a meaningful term. Attack level is, strength level is, defence level is, HP is, because these all have a direct influence on somebody's ability to hit and take damage. Combat level is an inconsistent umbrella term that doesn't fully represent what it stands for.

 

To take another RPG as an example, you say Blissey has 225 HP and 135 SpDef base stats, but you don't say its average base stat is 90 because this says nothing meaningful about its strengths against special sweepers and horrific weakness against physical sweeps. 225HP is meaningful, 135 SpDef is meaningful, trying to make an average between them isn't.

 

Whether you include potions, food, armour or whatever is really irrelevant to the argument that the term itself is just an artificial number.

 

The question really is: What does 'combat level' actually mean?

I don't agree with you that combat level crudely squeezes these stats into one number. I have never had a problem guessing the levels of people I fight in the wilderness. Their names and gear usually gave them away. It's always been part of the fun of pvp not being 100% sure about skills. Unless you...yaknow....take 15 seconds to type their name in the hiscores.

 

If it was "meaningful" for you, then basically it would segregate people into groups where they could only fight against people who were essentially exactly the same.

 

Also, how do you propose dealing with auto-aggressive monsters like the wild dogs in Brimhaven Dungeon, or things like that, where their aggressiveness is dependent on combat level. You need to remember that combat level is not only applicable players. Monster combat level is calculated exactly the same.