Account Hijacking & Jagex� Item Return Policy

[ilovecuttingyews]

One of the major reasons that Jagex doesn't give back stolen goods is because it's so easy to fake it.

Log onto your account at a friends house

Transfer GP to a pure

Claim you were hacked

???

Profit!

 

In response to this particular instance; It's only fair that Jagex doesn't give her items back just because she's famous. There technicaly shouldn't be any economic damages to Jagex having destroyed the stolen items since they were already out of the economy and since the hacker's accounts were perm banned anyway.

[ghjkl]

Jagex removed 1k santas from the game. Of course there are economic implications.

[lordkafei]

In response to this particular instance; It's only fair that Jagex doesn't give her items back just because she's famous. There technicaly shouldn't be any economic damages to Jagex having destroyed the stolen items since they were already out of the economy and since the hacker's accounts were perm banned anyway.

 

But I wasnt claiming that fame was the justification, and I havent noticed that anyone else is. No one is claiming special privileges here.

 

What we all seem to be saying is that Jagex had first-hand knowledge of what was taken and where it was; they just CBAed to fix it.

[blakdragon39]

I believe it might have something to do with the way Blizzard coded their game as opposed to Jagex.

 

Yeah I was thinking that too. But it seems like Jagex knew what was stolen. And I was overall just impressed with Blizzard's customer service.

[wioneo]

I completely agree with this. Their policy has always been "suck it up" if you get hacked. the only reason that they took the items in this case was to avoid massive economic disruption. Santas are still dropping though I think, so there's that... Supposedly shouldn't they be panic rising instead of faling since they just got rarer? Even though they were basically removed from the market already...

[Yoko Kurama]

Chessy might have been a lot of things--but these apologists for scammimg "Uh, she got what she deserved", I find reprehensible and laced with jealousy. Grow up.

 

Aside from that, this just a sad affair--and I find Jagex's complete apathy to the plight of victims of scamming to be completely disgusting--regardless of whatever their policy has been for however long. I have played since the semi-early days of classic, and I was never fond of it--certainly not during the MA affair and certainly not now. Few other companies get away with this nonsense and crap. This is a case of schadenfreude--nothing else, since they can clearly return items if they choose to do so and with about as much ease if not less than it took to ban the perpetrators.

[RU_Insane]

Jagex removed 1k santas from the game. Of course there are economic implications.

 

Not really. The victim was a hoarder. The Santas sat in her bank all the time, so either way, it's like Santas never existed on the market because they weren't a part of the supply. Santas were fluctuating all the time even when she had 1K Santas in her bank. Demand for Santas went up because she was hoarding them, thus restricting the supply. Demand for Santas will remain the same because having them removed is essentially the same as not trading that wealth at all, thus keeping the supply the same as before: restricted. Because of this, I would argue that the Santas being removed have a minimal affect on the economy.

[Dragonlordjl]

Jagex removed 1k santas from the game. Of course there are economic implications.

 

Not really. The victim was a hoarder. The Santas sat in her bank all the time, so either way, it's like Santas never existed on the market because they weren't a part of the supply. Santas were fluctuating all the time even when she had 1K Santas in her bank. Demand for Santas went up because she was hoarding them, thus restricting the supply. Demand for Santas will remain the same because having them removed is essentially the same as not trading that wealth at all, thus keeping the supply the same as before: restricted. Because of this, I would argue that the Santas being removed have a minimal affect on the economy.

All the idiots (and there are a lot of them) are panicking because they are too dumb to realize this. Once these [developmentally delayed]s come to their senses in a few days, the market will stabilize.

[RU_Insane]

Jagex removed 1k santas from the game. Of course there are economic implications.

 

Not really. The victim was a hoarder. The Santas sat in her bank all the time, so either way, it's like Santas never existed on the market because they weren't a part of the supply. Santas were fluctuating all the time even when she had 1K Santas in her bank. Demand for Santas went up because she was hoarding them, thus restricting the supply. Demand for Santas will remain the same because having them removed is essentially the same as not trading that wealth at all, thus keeping the supply the same as before: restricted. Because of this, I would argue that the Santas being removed have a minimal affect on the economy.

All the idiots (and there are a lot of them) are panicking because they are too dumb to realize this. Once these [developmentally delayed]s come to their senses in a few days, the market will stabilize.

 

Agreed. The market in actuality has the same levels of supply -- at least -- for Santas as it had before the victim's items were removed. The only real thing to fear for the market is panic trading which influences demand, as I outlined before in one of my earlier posts in this thread. It always seems to go back to not thinking the issue through enough. :P

[Utopia]

I'm confused, did she get her items back or not? :unsure:

[lordkafei]

I'm confused, did she get her items back or not? :unsure:

 

According to Mod Mark H, no.

[Utopia]

I'm confused, did she get her items back or not? :unsure:

 

According to Mod Mark H, no.

 

Well good, I'm sure that wouldn't have went over well with the rest of the community.

[RU_Insane]

I'm confused, did she get her items back or not? :unsure:

 

No, unfortunately. >.>

[Utopia]

I'm confused, did she get her items back or not? :unsure:

 

No, unfortunately. >.>

 

Why is that unfortunate? I've been hacked/phished before and would expect my items back as well.

[Thus]

I'm confused. Can someone message me or post here who got what stolen?

[RU_Insane]

I'm confused, did she get her items back or not? :unsure:

 

No, unfortunately. >.>

 

Why is that unfortunate? I've been hacked/phished before and would expect my items back as well.

 

I think it's unfortunate that she got hacked and that Jagex could easily return them, but I also understand that Jagex has no legal obligation to, and so they didn't, for reasons that have been cited in this thread ad nauseum. Really, the sadness for me lies in the fact that the work went to waste so quickly.

 

I'm confused. Can someone message me or post here who got what stolen?

 

Sure. 170 billion GP stolen from the victim's bank, which was all of it. I don't think posting pictures is out of line.

 

 

^ All of that was stolen and redistributed amongst other accounts who were promptly banned.

[Utopia]

I'm confused, did she get her items back or not? :unsure:

 

No, unfortunately. >.>

 

Why is that unfortunate? I've been hacked/phished before and would expect my items back as well.

 

I think it's unfortunate that she got hacked and that Jagex could easily return them, but I also understand that Jagex has no legal obligation to, and so they didn't, for reasons that have been cited in this thread ad nauseum. Really, the sadness for me lies in the fact that the work went to waste so quickly.

 

Yeah, I'd have to agree. It sucks, but rich (even the richest) players shouldn't have pity taken upon them just because they put a lot of work and time into their account.

[RU_Insane]

I'm confused, did she get her items back or not? :unsure:

 

No, unfortunately. >.>

 

Why is that unfortunate? I've been hacked/phished before and would expect my items back as well.

 

I think it's unfortunate that she got hacked and that Jagex could easily return them, but I also understand that Jagex has no legal obligation to, and so they didn't, for reasons that have been cited in this thread ad nauseum. Really, the sadness for me lies in the fact that the work went to waste so quickly.

 

Yeah, I'd have to agree. It sucks, but rich (even the richest) players shouldn't have pity taken upon them just because they put a lot of work and time into their account.

 

One could argue that this is true. Considering that the player in question is a professional mercher, she can probably get a few mill from a friend be back to hundred millionare status if not billionaire status in what, a month? The amount of cash she could make in comparison to what she lost in today's capital environment almost balances out. People on her level can make triple digit millions an hour provided they have the appropriate amount of capital to do so.

[Utopia]

I'm confused, did she get her items back or not? :unsure:

 

No, unfortunately. >.>

 

Why is that unfortunate? I've been hacked/phished before and would expect my items back as well.

 

I think it's unfortunate that she got hacked and that Jagex could easily return them, but I also understand that Jagex has no legal obligation to, and so they didn't, for reasons that have been cited in this thread ad nauseum. Really, the sadness for me lies in the fact that the work went to waste so quickly.

 

Yeah, I'd have to agree. It sucks, but rich (even the richest) players shouldn't have pity taken upon them just because they put a lot of work and time into their account.

 

One could argue that this is true. Considering that the player in question is a professional mercher, she can probably get a few mill from a friend be back to hundred millionare status if not billionaire status in what, a month? The amount of cash she could make in comparison to what she lost in today's capital environment almost balances out. People on her level can make triple digit millions an hour provided they have the appropriate amount of capital to do so.

 

I'm sure she'll have no trouble making it back, assuming she is still playing?

[ghjkl]

I agree with jagex not giving the items back.

I don't agree with their banning of people who received the wealth.

[Noxx]

It's been Jagex's policy since the start, and if they change their position on it there is already a backlog of thousands upon thousands of players who have lost money from bugs, hacked accounts and so forth that would also need to have their items returned. They can't just change the policy because chessy is famous, nor would it be right to do so.

 

There are also a huge number of issues in returning items. If player B hacks player A, taking player A's blue partyhat and selling it anonymously on the ge to player C, how would you return the hat to player A without duping it?

 

I acknowledge your points and I have no answer in those cases.

 

However, in this case - and I quote Mod Mark H - "As soon as we became aware of the situation we acted quickly banning the hijacker's accounts as well as removing any items & wealth stolen. " - which means they had the information they needed to return the items. There would be no duping in this case. But instead of returning them, they removed them forever.

 

If Mod Mark H had hidden behind "terms of service" then that would be different. But he didn't - he wrapped himself in the code of law. The victim in question should have recourse to recover those items from Jagex if Jagex is going to use that same law to seize them from the hijacker.

 

Items taken as a result of hacking can't be stolen when it is convenient for Jagex and not stolen when it isn't.

 

I agree completely. If Jagex doesn't reconsider, I think that Chessy018 should sue Jagex over this.

....

 

What? Stop right there.

 

http://www.runescape.com/rules/rule_real_world_trading.ws

Jagex Rules & Conditions > RWT > Section 3

 

3. Isnt it up to me what I do with my items & account?

 

No, the terms and conditions state that your RuneScape character, account and items are, and remain, the property of Jagex.

 

While that section describes RWT, it also applies to any items in general. ANYTHING on your account (items, xp, time, ect..) belongs to Jagex. Just because you spend 100 hours of your personal time to buy items with other virtual items does not mean your "time" gives you rights to those items.

 

So the point is, the Hats were, and always are, property of Jagex and not the player. You are simply renting them. If a rented car is stolen, does the insurance company reimburse you for any damages to the car? No. They would reimburse the car company. In this scenario Jagex is both the insurance company and the car company. You (as the consumer) can't sue the insurance company for not giving you money for a rented car.. You are simply out of luck with the old car, and have to work to rent a new one.

Actually, in a case such as you mentioned (im referring to the car rental scenario) the car company (which you said would be Jagex, in this case) would have to give you the option of another car, would they not?. Of course your monthly rental rate will remain as it was before the hijacking of the car you previously used but the point remains that you will infact recieve another car of the same class as the previous one, at the same cost. So if you're going to use that as an arguement would it not be fair to say that the car rental company (Jagex), should give the hijacked account a new "car"?

 

Please Note: I'm simply asking a question, not trying to spark a flame or cause any trolling.

[RU_Insane]

I'm confused, did she get her items back or not? :unsure:

 

No, unfortunately. >.>

 

Why is that unfortunate? I've been hacked/phished before and would expect my items back as well.

 

I think it's unfortunate that she got hacked and that Jagex could easily return them, but I also understand that Jagex has no legal obligation to, and so they didn't, for reasons that have been cited in this thread ad nauseum. Really, the sadness for me lies in the fact that the work went to waste so quickly.

 

Yeah, I'd have to agree. It sucks, but rich (even the richest) players shouldn't have pity taken upon them just because they put a lot of work and time into their account.

 

One could argue that this is true. Considering that the player in question is a professional mercher, she can probably get a few mill from a friend be back to hundred millionare status if not billionaire status in what, a month? The amount of cash she could make in comparison to what she lost in today's capital environment almost balances out. People on her level can make triple digit millions an hour provided they have the appropriate amount of capital to do so.

 

I'm sure she'll have no trouble making it back, assuming she is still playing?

 

She is semi-inactive, apparently. I remember now, actually, that her account is locked. Assuming that the legitimate owner can get the account unlocked, she can make it back with some difficulty, considering it's a great amount of wealth. It depends how long she'll think she'll make it back, and how much effort she's going to put into making it back. But yeah, she's inactive.

 

I agree with jagex not giving the items back.

I don't agree with their banning of people who received the wealth.

 

May you explain why so? It would seem some people in this thread share the opposite conviction.

[Pete Party]

Let's say your hacked account had a p-hat on it, it got sold for 1gp, to the hacker, then the hacker sold it on his account for 2B. The p-hat is now in hands of a player outside of the hackers circle.

 

The think that jagex should do is at least give the player that got hacked what the hacker got for it, injecting items is not jagex style.

[RU_Insane]

Let's say your hacked account had a p-hat on it, it got sold for 1gp, to the hacker, then the hacker sold it on his account for 2B. The p-hat is now in hands of a player outside of the hackers circle.

 

The think that jagex should do is at least give the player that got hacked what the hacker got for it, injecting items is not jagex style.

 

Jagex would lock all accounts that engaged in trade with the infiltrated account, so I don't see why this would be a concern. "injecting items is not jagex style." Do you mean it's not within Jagex's reason to compensate the user with the stolen item as opposed to its subjective cash value?

[BeNiceOk]

Actually, in a case such as you mentioned (im referring to the car rental scenario) the car company (which you said would be Jagex, in this case) would have to give you the option of another car, would they not?. Of course your monthly rental rate will remain as it was before the hijacking of the car you previously used but the point remains that you will infact recieve another car of the same class as the previous one, at the same cost. So if you're going to use that as an arguement would it not be fair to say that the car rental company (Jagex), should give the hijacked account a new "car"?

 

Please Note: I'm simply asking a question, not trying to spark a flame or cause any trolling.

 

I'll admit it was a very bad comparison, however theirs not really any other analogies I could think of to apply something similar, because there isn't really a similarity to "virtual goods" in the "real world".

 

Anywho, my point was more along the lines of "the customer not being able to sue the insurance company, if a car company tells a customer they refuse to replace a stolen rental car". The car company could say "we wont replace anyone's rented car if it's stolen. This is to prevent against drivers fake-stealing cars to profit, which makes our company lose money". The car company would have the right to terminate the lease, tell you to go away, and not replace your car if it's stolen.

 

More or less, I know it's not the best example, but I think you get the point I'm trying to make; it's never your car and you never have the legal right to get one replaced if it's stolen. (Unless its in your contract, which it's not in this case).