Account Hijacking & Jagex� Item Return Policy

[Yoko Kurama]

@ Darkdude

 

I disagree on certain points. First of all, I should like it to be known that my suggestion for a refund policy is two-fold. On one hand, we must consider bugs and on the other hand we must consider hacking/scamming and on the hand . Now, in the case of the former, I don't think I have should have to reiterate, that in the instance of say the MA bug, where Jagex is clearly at fault, items should be returned. I can't see any reason why not do it. Players should not be punished for Jagex's blunders. In fact, on this issue, I think just about every other decent company that I know of does this--if you get a defunct product, usually companies offer compensation. Furthermore, you mention “although for a lot of things it's hard to prove that the items are lost (through glitches etc.)", but clearly in a lot of instances Jagex *does* know.

 

For instance, in the aforementioned story, Jagex was CLEARLY aware, they admitted as much--they should have undertaken the appropriate response after not only denying and harassing a long-time customer who was the victim of *their* ineptitude. Instead, after denying anything ever happened (without even putting in the effort), when some other Mod *did* put the effort and his case was proven, they showed him to the door. I am not asking Jagex for 100% guarantees on accounts or insurance, but some semblance of security is necessary I think--especially in cases where there is strong evidence. I personally find it cruel and inhumane the way Jagex has in the past treated customers who were clearly bearing the burden of Jagex's mistakes.

 

So as far as bug abuse is concerned, if it can be proven there was some fault on Jagex's part and it is viable to do so--they should provide compensation.

 

As far as the issue of scamming/hacking is concerned, rest assured, I do not broach this subject as an idealist--I am well aware of the complexities which is why I explicitly mentioned certain conditions.

 

 

RuneScape is a very economy based game, much much more so than something like WoW. In RuneScape you "need" money and items of significant worth to level your skills and do well within the game. For this reason bringing extra items into the game in anyway could have a significant impact on the game. Then that is increased ten fold when you're talking about discontinued items. If you hack someone, they have 10 party hats then you sell them on the GE to some random people. You then can't take those hats away from the people who bought them and giving 10 new hats back to the person who hacked just isn't feasible and would have a major impact on the amount of rares. You'd have a lot of people faking being hacked to try and get their items back while also having their friends benefit. Really, it's just not right for them to do and would have too big of an impact on the game.

 

As for the economic question that you posed in this specific scenario—I am well aware of this, this is why I advocate compensation of some sort. I mean there are literally dozens of ways to approach this sensibly. It is a complex issue but if you handle it case by case it can be done, for instance, the accounts that were locked, Chessy should be awarded the stuff that was stolen from her, as for the stuff that was sold on the GE, there is no need for rollbacks. So yeah, Chessy might lose a couple billion gpies this way but at the least there is some compensation. I am *very* flexible with solutions, I simply ask that Jagex acknowledge that wrongdoing has occurred and act appropriately, I am not asking for 100% refunds or magic time traveling machines that make everything the way it was. So most of the time, the refund policy or policies I have in mind wouldn't have the economic effect of the magnitude you imagine.

 

Like I said, plenty of steps can be taken. For example, if people want to give stuff to their friends, pretend they got scammed and demand compensation, a simple way to deal with this would be to ban the scamming party once it has been proven that they scammed and return the items to the owner. Let us see how many people try to abuse this system when they will potentially get banned in the process if they lie.

 

Not everything has to be perfect, a little effort goes a along way.

 

 

I personally don’t care what happens to Chessy in particular, I only used her as an example to broach this issue because we were talking about her.

 

Things have to be handled on a case by case basis—it really isn’t that hard.

 

Although in this case, as the rares can be located it could be possible to get the items off the locked accounts and give them back to Chessy. If the items are completely taken out of the game (like in this case they would be unless Chessy gets them back) then they should be given back, although for a lot of things it's hard to prove that the items are lost (through glitches etc.).

 

You mentioned earlier that there are economic implications—there sure are, which is why I advocate compensation rather hard and fast rules. Think about it for a second though. Jagex KNOWS in this case that scamming has occurred and they know who *most* of the items belong to(some of the hackers got away according to the interview), so what sense does removing them make? Does that not have implications on the rare market too?

 

So if you too are advocating case by case—then I agree with you.

 

 

The rightful owner owes me 10k, so please give her money back.

 

 

Nice try--now how about you actually try reading what I said? I explicitly used the words 'viable/feasible'--and I certainly have in mind of course certain restrictions that could be placed to prevent abuse. Clearly, some sorts of limits are needed to prevent abuse. If you stop and examine your statement just for a mere 30 seconds or so, it should be apparent to you this is not what I had and mind and how easily abuses can be prevented, instead of knee jerking.

 

I don’t have much time at the moment, I have more to say so *maybe* I will get back to this when I have time.

[Naraku893]

1m can go from anywhere from $0.65 to $0.99

[Star_Fox]

1m can go from anywhere from $0.65 to $0.99

 

When bought in bulk, it's barely 50 cents

[Serpent Eye]

So... I hate having to ask a silly question... but, someone will have to please explain why everyone keeps saying her account wasn't "hacked;" it was "recovered."

 

If someone other than the original account owner gains control of an account... isn't that hacking? "Recovering" implies that she lost her account and then she herself gained it back and sold off all the items.

 

Unless it's just a reference to a literal Account Recovery, because that's how they obtained the password.

 

 

 

 

Or something.

 

 

?

[predator1030]

So... I hate having to ask a silly question... but, someone will have to please explain why everyone keeps saying her account wasn't "hacked;" it was "recovered."

 

If someone other than the original account owner gains control of an account... isn't that hacking? "Recovering" implies that she lost her account and then she herself gained it back and sold off all the items.

 

Unless it's just a reference to a literal Account Recovery, because that's how they obtained the password.

 

 

 

 

Or something.

 

 

?

 

You're right it is hacking b/c of the definiton you provided, but they mean the method that her account was hacked which was through recovery questions, personal info, etc which would mean it was "recovered". In a sense, you could use both terms to describe the situation and you would be correct either way.

[Serpent Eye]

Ah, I see.

 

Just from the way I was reading it, it seemed to me like people thought it made a difference. :P

 

Anyway, thanks!

[Alphanos]

The perpetrator(s) are emphasizing this terminology because they've realized that Jagex intends to pursue criminal charges. Their hope is that because they didn't actually break into the victim's computer, or install unwanted software on it, they might be able to avoid prosecution under laws that make hacking a crime.

 

Basically they've realized that although they thought only the victim would suffer any consequences, some are now headed their way, and they're in over their head(s)....

[Bladewing]

wasn't that guy from 4chan who recovered sarah palin's email in a similar manner prosecuted anyway?

[Mercifull]

wasn't that guy from 4chan who recovered sarah palin's email in a similar manner prosecuted anyway?

 

If i remember correctly they found him innocent and he only got in trouble for deleting his hard drive

Nope. Sentenced to a year and one day at Federal Correctional Institution, Ashland. After that he gets another 3 years supervised release. He was charged for three felonies: identity theft, wire fraud, and anticipatory obstruction of justice; and one optional as felony or misdemeanor: intentionally accessing an account without authorization. He was ultimately found guilty on two counts: the felony of anticipatory obstruction of justice and the misdemeanor of unauthorized access to a computer.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Giving back lost items for any reason wouldn't be right, IMO. It's always been our burden to keep our accounts secure.

 

I have always opposed this policy and will continue to do so. I was just as upset--if not more-- when it happened to the guy who lost his bank to the MA glitch, and I am similarly upset that this happened to a somewhat dubious character like Chessy018. I am of the opinion, that Jagex should refund items for *all* players whenever and wherever it can be proven some unintended mishap of this nature has occurred--and whenever and whereever it is viable/feasible to do so. Quite a few other companies do this, I hardly see why Jagex should be any different--especially considering this is relatively painless and inexpensive. I think if people have invested time and effort and emotion, and have subsequently suffered egregiously as in such cases, Jagex should honor that emotional investment and attachment--it seems the humane(I am aware of the irony of this term) thing to do.

 

Now one could make the argument that isn't fair for Jagex to implement this policy change only in response to the misfortunes of an affluent and wealthy player--but I really don't see that as too much of a problem. Yes, it is somewhat unfair, but that is life for you, changes often come from the behests of elites--not from the plight of the helpless. I think the RS community should seize this opportunity to petition Jagex to implement the aforementioned policy change. It is in the best interests of everyone.

 

I suppose I should quantify this more sufficiently.

 

Items that are lost due to a fault in the game's software - something which we take to be "safe", for whatever value of safe you wish to use - I wouldn't mind seeing returned. The only problem is that it's neither painless nor inexpensive to implement something of this nature in the game, and development time could be better spent on other ventures, depending on the direction the designers choose to go.

 

Returning items that are lost due to accounts being compromised or "hacked", as they say is something I am staunchly against. We must all be accountable unto ourselves to keep our valuables secure, and if one cannot do that, then perhaps they didn't value their valuables as highly as they thought.

[Lunar_Drifter]

Not reading 7 pages- I read the first page and skimmed the last.

 

Jagex cited the law on unauthorized access, not on stolen property. Jagex only used the law against the hijackers for accessing the account unauthorized. They did not use the law because anything was stolen. So saying that they can't use the law here and not there isn't applicable here. They used X instance of the law, where X instance of the law only applies to the X incident. But you think they used Y instance of the law because of a Y incident, which definitely isn't the case.

 

So no, they don't need to give anyone anything back. They can't reliably monitor all items at all times and all players to see what goes where and how it got there, so they just say no to everyone.

[Blyaunte]

At Jagex, "customer service" is an oxymoron ...

[Yoko Kurama]

I suppose I should quantify this more sufficiently.

 

Items that are lost due to a fault in the game's software - something which we take to be "safe", for whatever value of safe you wish to use - I wouldn't mind seeing returned. The only problem is that it's neither painless nor inexpensive to implement something of this nature in the game, and development time could be better spent on other ventures, depending on the direction the designers choose to go.

 

There are several way to implement this. Once Jagex has confirmed that someone has suffered because of an oversight on their part, ie, a bug--as was the case with the MA bug, all they have to do is restore the items, which doesn't seem terribly difficult to me. No market implications, easy to trace and easy to spawn items. This was proven in the MA debacle--where initially the player claiming that his bank/inventory had been wiped was harshly criticized by J-Mods, until one J-Mod did some sort of check up, and confirmed his story--this indicates that Jagex can indeed trace this stuff down. So what use was there at all in *not* returning the items in that case? None. Aside from that though, if we are really going to get into the discussion of time spent wisely, how about Jagex lower back on pointless "PR" events(most of which aren't usually well received anyways) conducted by their "Community Involvement" or "Customer Support" Team and actually give us some semblance of customer support. I think most players would much rather prefer this. Really, this sort of stuff falls under Customer Support--just about every other company that shells out products does this, I don't see why Jagex should be exempt for this. On the point of bug/glitches, Jagex should own up to their mistakes and take the appropriate steps--there is no excuse whatsoever that can be deemed even remotely legitimate.

 

 

Returning items that are lost due to accounts being compromised or "hacked", as they say is something I am staunchly against. We must all be accountable unto ourselves to keep our valuables secure, and if one cannot do that, then perhaps they didn't value their valuables as highly as they thought.

 

In contrast to bugs/glitches--where Jagex assumes sole responsibility for a slip in their QA and thus there is no excuse/debate--I can actually see the issue of scamming/hacking being somewhat debatable--but largely in methodology, though I won't deny the 'responsibility of players' portion either. Your response is somewhat shocking--because it is essentially blaming the victim. People DO value their accounts and highly so, are you really going to tell players who invested years worth of time and emotion that they don't value their investment? Usually they do take steps to protect themselves but that doesn't mean they are perfect. This sort of victim-blaming, if applied to any other situation, would be laughable but I am going to try and avoid the RL/RS analogies since they usually don't end well. Really, though, all that is asked of them is some compassion. It really isn't that hard or inflexible.

[Jaffy1]

I can actually see the issue of scamming/hacking being somewhat debatable--but largely in methodology, though I won't deny the 'responsibility of players' portion either. Your response is somewhat shocking--because it is essentially blaming the victim. People DO value their accounts and highly so, are you really going to tell players who invested years worth of time and emotion that they don't value their investment? Usually they do take steps to protect themselves but that doesn't mean they are perfect. This sort of victim-blaming, if applied to any other situation, would be laughable but I am going to try and avoid the RL/RS analogies since they usually don't end well. Really, though, all that is asked of them is some compassion. It really isn't that hard or inflexible.

Assuming the above is accurate, why would Jagex have to return 'lost' items when players aren't perfect?

 

As far as real life situations are concerned; if you were to lose your debit card and happened to have a note stuck to if with its pin number on it, would the bank then have to re-fund any money taken from ATMs by thieves using this information?

 

^That actually happened to some (cabbage:)) in my neighbourhood, and he thought they should. Personally, I would disagree.

 

Also, people can always stage "being hacked", so should Jagex just spend time and money into trying to figure out who was, and wasn't?

[IHasChicken]

I just got hacked and lost 180m and I ain't even mad.

 

Money is easy to make back anyway, and if they did return items, it would just be abused more than it is legitimately used.

 

No real point for it at all.

[Yoko Kurama]

Assuming the above is accurate, why would Jagex have to return 'lost' items when players aren't perfect?

 

:shock: Because no one is perfect. Is anyone really demanding that players be perfect in their security measures before some redress of grievances is issued?

 

As far as real life situations are concerned; if you were to lose your debit card and happened to have a note stuck to if with its pin number on it, would the bank then have to re-fund any money taken from ATMs by thieves using this information?

 

^That actually happened to some (cabbage:)) in my neighbourhood, and he thought they should. Personally, I would disagree.

 

Are you claiming that this is the only reason(stupidity) or method with which people get scammed? I hope not. As I have mentioned before, I am not advocating in any sense that Jagex be obligated to simply treat every claim seriously or give refunds all the time.

 

Also, people can always stage "being hacked", so should Jagex just spend time and money into trying to figure out who was, and wasn't?

 

Like I mentioned before, I am flexible, and I certainly don't expect some sort of 100% hard and fast rules. On the matter of tracking scamming, it is true that people will inevitable try to play the system--there are plenty of solutions that can be adopted. Firstly, the process is similar to how Jagex tracks RWT(basically, I suspect whenever high transactions occur, it is probably recorded somewhere), that is probably enough to at least consider a claim of scamming, from then on they can simply spend a minute or two to consider the context(for instance, dialogue before the transaction and IPs), they already do this sort of stuff to detect when people are sharing their accounts or are RWTing, so nothing significantly more is asked of Jagex. Furthermore, similar to abusing the Report System, examples can be made in this instance too.

 

All we are asking is Jagex actually have some sort of Customer Support--rather than what they have now--which is basically "Lets do silly events all the time". I am sure some people enjoy them but for the most part, cut backs could certainly be made there and invested into genuine Customer Support which is far more necessary.

[predator1030]

I haven't read most of the replies on here but I thought of something that might be worth mentioning, which is that Blizzard returns items that are hacked in World of Warcraft. I remember I was hacked for all my gold and items because of a keylogger. I sent in a ticket and after about 2 weeks, 98% of my items and all of my gold was restored. So imo it would be possible for Jagex to return items, although this would probably add a lot to their workload b/c of all the individual cases that would have to be reviewed. Also the fact Blizzard is a much bigger company and has more employees may be a part of why they return items, because they have the time and resources to do so.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

There are several way to implement this. Once Jagex has confirmed that someone has suffered because of an oversight on their part, ie, a bug--as was the case with the MA bug, all they have to do is restore the items, which doesn't seem terribly difficult to me. No market implications, easy to trace and easy to spawn items. This was proven in the MA debacle--where initially the player claiming that his bank/inventory had been wiped was harshly criticized by J-Mods, until one J-Mod did some sort of check up, and confirmed his story--this indicates that Jagex can indeed trace this stuff down. So what use was there at all in *not* returning the items in that case? None. Aside from that though, if we are really going to get into the discussion of time spent wisely, how about Jagex lower back on pointless "PR" events(most of which aren't usually well received anyways) conducted by their "Community Involvement" or "Customer Support" Team and actually give us some semblance of customer support. I think most players would much rather prefer this. Really, this sort of stuff falls under Customer Support--just about every other company that shells out products does this, I don't see why Jagex should be exempt for this. On the point of bug/glitches, Jagex should own up to their mistakes and take the appropriate steps--there is no excuse whatsoever that can be deemed even remotely legitimate.

 

I would conjecture that the MA debacle disproves your claim, actually. The *only* way Jagex - or anyone for that matter - ever knew about it was the player coming forward with a claim about it themselves. I don't believe that they would've known about it otherwise.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that they have limited capabilities to trace items, but the ultimate problem lies in the program itself. A program doesn't know if it's behaving bug-free unless it has some sort of error (SIGSEGV or something slightly less heinous). Even then, you'd have to determine *how* it went wrong, in what way, and if the player initiated it or if it was a random thing.

 

I do say "limited tracking capabilities" because I can't make general assumptions about how deep their tracking system goes. But I do believe that the overhead based on database queries, investigation of the actual fault, and determining what items were potentially lost vs. the player's claim of lost items would just be too much for the QA team to handle, in terms of time spent per player per incident.

 

I don't think on the scale of 10 or 100. I think on the scale of easily 5,000 or more players attempting to claim lost items due to a "bug". I don't think that the capabilities lie with Jagex - either technical or by personnel - to deal with the load.

 

In contrast to bugs/glitches--where Jagex assumes sole responsibility for a slip in their QA and thus there is no excuse/debate--I can actually see the issue of scamming/hacking being somewhat debatable--but largely in methodology, though I won't deny the 'responsibility of players' portion either. Your response is somewhat shocking--because it is essentially blaming the victim. People DO value their accounts and highly so, are you really going to tell players who invested years worth of time and emotion that they don't value their investment? Usually they do take steps to protect themselves but that doesn't mean they are perfect. This sort of victim-blaming, if applied to any other situation, would be laughable but I am going to try and avoid the RL/RS analogies since they usually don't end well. Really, though, all that is asked of them is some compassion. It really isn't that hard or inflexible.

 

What compassion do you give someone that left a $150,000 Jaguar running in their parking lot, with the doors opened and the driver having a "quick" phone call inside the house?

 

What compassion do you give a coworker that posts an inflammatory message about the company on Facebook, is fired the next day, and threatens to sue (either the company, Facebook, or both)?

 

In all instances, it was the fault of the victim and the victim alone that these circumstances came to be. Honestly, when one says that it's "blaming the victim", it makes it sound like the victim was absolutely faultless in the manner, when that's really not the case here. There certainly are times that it applies (such as physical or sexual abuse), but this most certainly isn't one of those.

 

If you value something, you PROTECT it. This means keeping information which has the potential to be used to recover your account secret. This also means keeping passwords and recovery questions difficult or impossible to guess unless you were the person. And if you get the feeling that this security may have been compromised: CHANGE it up. It's actually a good practice to change passwords and recovery questions to not just RS, but banks and important systems on a regular basis.

 

Jagex has done WAY too much already to help us protect what we value - bank PINs, forbidding super weak passwords, email-based recoveries, and email-based logins (with new accounts). Had they went one step further and invested in RSA fobs, then there would be no denying who's at fault. But, at what point does Jagex get to draw the line and say, "Okay, it's in your hands now"?

[Yoko Kurama]

I would conjecture that the MA debacle disproves your claim, actually. The *only* way Jagex - or anyone for that matter - ever knew about it was the player coming forward with a claim about it themselves. I don't believe that they would've known about it otherwise.

 

Well ideally this should work like the any customer support system works. The scenario is simple: players are damaged because of some faulty bug, they contact Jagex and issue their claim, Jagex reviews it and reaches a decision.

 

 

There's no doubt in my mind that they have limited capabilities to trace items, but the ultimate problem lies in the program itself. A program doesn't know if it's behaving bug-free unless it has some sort of error (SIGSEGV or something slightly less heinous). Even then, you'd have to determine *how* it went wrong, in what way, and if the player initiated it or if it was a random thing.

 

I think in a lot of cases, Jagex can probably detect if a player brings their attention to it. However, there probably are *some* cases where Jagex can't handle with it, and in such situations, I don't think Jagex refusing to refund is a big problem. Like I mentioned, no one is expecting 100% refunds all the time, some common sense and some semblance of customer support is needed in the case of bugs.

 

I do say "limited tracking capabilities" because I can't make general assumptions about how deep their tracking system goes. But I do believe that the overhead based on database queries, investigation of the actual fault, and determining what items were potentially lost vs. the player's claim of lost items would just be too much for the QA team to handle, in terms of time spent per player per incident.

 

 

I don't think on the scale of 10 or 100. I think on the scale of easily 5,000 or more players attempting to claim lost items due to a "bug". I don't think that the capabilities lie with Jagex - either technical or by personnel - to deal with the load.

 

Firstly, Jagex should have a separate Customer Support team if they don't have it already. Just about every serious company of this scope does, so should Jagex. There is simply no excuse. Furthermore, once again, it is a matter of sensible resource allocation. For example one way to handle with a bug that affects a great deal of players is a roll back. Barring though, should a huge case arise where Jagex can't roll back, and a lot of time may be needed to uncover the facts--they can do it slowly. A lot of players would just appreciate that their grievances are addressed, in a week or month or two, rather than Jagex simply responding with their typical "Sorry folks, we don't give a [bleep]" attitude which is emblematic of apathy and laziness.

 

Scamming/hacking is one thing, but bugs isn't another thing--the responsibility for that is solely Jagex's in most cases.

 

 

 

What compassion do you give someone that left a $150,000 Jaguar running in their parking lot, with the doors opened and the driver having a "quick" phone call inside the house?

 

Not every incident of hacking unfolds in this manner, hence, I find this to be unrepresentative of the problem. Not everyone hands over their items or passwords. There are plenty of other incidents that result in people losing their hard earned stuff. One incident is where people abuse bugs to inflict harm on innocent bystanders(Durial's incident comes to mind). This is not as simple as you put it. If you mean to say that Jagex should dismiss those who were blatantly ignorant--well, that is somewhat more agreeable(though I personally would take the more compassionate route considering a great deal of players are just young kids, but I can compromise and accept the fact that if you yourself are incredibly stupid, you shouldn't get your items back).

 

What compassion do you give a coworker that posts an inflammatory message about the company on Facebook, is fired the next day, and threatens to sue (either the company, Facebook, or both)?

 

Unlike the first analogy, I don't even find that this one remotely related. If someone is being boorish and rude, needless to say, they can be ignored.

 

 

In all instances, it was the fault of the victim and the victim alone that these circumstances came to be.

 

In a lot of cases, this might be the case--such as people simply handing over items, passwords, or not being too careful. What about key loggers? What about incidents where people abuse bugs to scam other players(like the recent incident where after Jagex explicitly mentioned that lent items would not be allowed in the Wilderness, and yet they were allowed none the less, and as a result plenty of people were scammed out of valuable items)? It is about letting some sort of order prevail--if Jagex is willing to punish perpetrators, why aren't they also willing to return the losses of victims? It seems somewhat contradictory to me.

 

 

Honestly, when one says that it's "blaming the victim", it makes it sound like the victim was absolutely faultless in the manner, when that's really not the case here. There certainly are times that it applies (such as physical or sexual abuse), but this most certainly isn't one of those.

 

Is weakness unacceptable then? Is that what you are implying?

 

If you value something, you PROTECT it. This means keeping information which has the potential to be used to recover your account secret. This also means keeping passwords and recovery questions difficult or impossible to guess unless you were the person. And if you get the feeling that this security may have been compromised: CHANGE it up. It's actually a good practice to change passwords and recovery questions to not just RS, but banks and important systems on a regular basis.

 

Certainly there are some lessons to be had for everyone. I should, in the interest of full disclosure, admit that I am not yet personally in need of 'compensation' or 'redress' because I actually *am* careful with my information. I simply sympathize with others are who have suffered, on the principles of compassion and second chances. I think suffering certainly does have imprinting and lasting effects on people--often for the better, it teaches them to be more careful, yet at the same time, I think we should try to alleviate misfortune where we can.

 

Jagex has done WAY too much already to help us protect what we value - bank PINs, forbidding super weak passwords, email-based recoveries, and email-based logins (with new accounts). Had they went one step further and invested in RSA fobs, then there would be no denying who's at fault. But, at what point does Jagex get to draw the line and say, "Okay, it's in your hands now"?

 

How about the same line as Blizzard(I have been told they often do refunds) or other companies. I find this final step to be not too overbearing, and not too difficult a demand. I hardly see how this is less justifiable than Jagex simply removing a dozen or so rares or whatever from the game rather than just returning them in instances where they have banned players already(thus admitting wrongdoing has occurred). People are often not as careful as they could(though this is not always the case), I don't see why that is reason enough for them lose out on years worth of investment. Yes, people make mistakes sometimes, all I am essentially asking for is a second chance for a lot of players. In other instances, Jagex makes mistakes, all I am asking for is that Jagex acknowledge responsibility and respond appropriately. I don't think this is too much to ask, nor does it cheapen to the way or overburden Jagex too much--I think this is the sensible thing to do and has much beneficial potential for the entire community.

[Jaffy1]

:shock: Because no one is perfect. Is anyone really demanding that players be perfect in their security measures before some redress of grievances is issued?

Why should Jagex care, or be responsible for a player's failing to (for example) keep their computer safe, get scammed, or fail to take the proper preventative action? They provide information on how to do so, and even give F2p players more bank space for registering their email address with them. Again, why would Jagex have to refund anything?

 

 

Are you claiming that this is the only reason(stupidity) or method with which people get scammed? I hope not. As I have mentioned before, I am not advocating in any sense that Jagex be obligated to simply treat every claim seriously or give refunds all the time.

So, people should be randomly getting items back, based on luck, even though it is their own fault they've 'lost' them?

 

 

...there are plenty of solutions that can be adopted. Firstly, the process is similar to how Jagex tracks RWT(basically, I suspect whenever high transactions occur, it is probably recorded somewhere), that is probably enough to at least consider a claim of scamming, from then on they can simply spend a minute or two to consider the context(for instance, dialogue before the transaction and IPs), they already do this sort of stuff to detect when people are sharing their accounts or are RWTing, so nothing significantly more is asked of Jagex. Furthermore, similar to abusing the Report System, examples can be made in this instance too.

 

It's very easy to change one's IP, stage dialog, and whatnot. Jagex doesn't monitor every player like this, and it would probably be insanely expensive to do so, especially if the sole purpose is to give the careless player free items once they've been stolen. Also, if Jagex has such a system, certain people would be encouraged to let that sort of thing happen to them to see if they could score some more free items. If they don't lose anything anyway, they'll never learn.. Seen plenty of "beggars" in-game that "got hacked" or "scammed" and wanted stuff from me, because apparently I, as a wealthy player, am responsible for that? Should show them some "compassion" too? :?

 

So, if you were to get scammed, I should just give you a few hundred mil cash? I may not be Jagex, but wouldn't I be just as responsible for that kind of thing as Jagex would be? Seriously though, do we really need Jagex to see all of us like immature children who are fail to take responsibility for our own mistakes, and are sad because they neglected to do what was necessary to secure our accounts? Should Mum and Dad at Jagex then sort out any arguments that occur between players too, when one has been given stuff, and the other has not?

[GGunitfan10]

Could someone explain what happened with Chessy? She just got hacked and lost 1000 santas?

[johnson323]

Theres a huge difference between real life items and online.

[Yay0siris]

people get hacked everyday but this is 1,000 santa hats.. i don't care who you are, you should be given your items back. i don't even play rs anymore and i think i would commit suicide over this..to me it IS 100,000 dollars.

[GGunitfan10]

people get hacked everyday but this is 1,000 santa hats.. i don't care who you are, you should be given your items back. i don't even play rs anymore and i think i would commit suicide over this..to me it IS 100,000 dollars.

You would commit suicide? That seems a tad extreme.

 

Did he just randomly get hacked? Or what?

[Judge]

people get hacked everyday but this is 1,000 santa hats.. i don't care who you are, you should be given your items back. i don't even play rs anymore and i think i would commit suicide over this..to me it IS 100,000 dollars.

 

No, it's exactly 0 dollars.