Jagex - Bot Busting

[Sir_Squab]

Actually, yesterday on W159, we sat and watched PMOD ignore a "broken" bot in Edgeville.

 

She did nothing -- didn't even report it -- while it kept trying to bank and typed "000000000000000000000000000000000" over and over again ...

 

Hell - she couldn't even be bothered to mute the damn thing.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Player Moderators are not forced to do anything different while playing the game. Just because they have the power to report does not mean they should. People who call Player Mods to come do something are the most irritating people in the game, "I know a Pmod I'll get them". As a Player Moderator myself there is very very few occasions where I'd go somewhere and do something for the sake of taking action against somebody, it would have to be a very extreme case that needs urgent attention to stop a risk of safety for others.

 

Also, use your ignore list. I've told you many times before yet you seem to have a problem doing that and always complain about people continuing on saying/doing bad things. Your ignore list exists for a reason, use it.

I always wanted to be a PMod. I probably would have non-stop bot hunted/scammer muted in w2. Shame, instead they seem to have given the position to more people who will mute you for saying the F word than people who actually do something.

 

You aren't forced to do anything different, but you should. If you aren't going to don't accept the [bleep]ing modship.

 

Afaik Player Mod reports for bots aren't handled any differently than normal players reporting them, so it doesn't matter who reports them in that case. Your attitude is the exactly opposite of what makes a good player mod. There are better ways of dealing with things than reporting every single person you see for doing the smallest stuff. Going out of your way to find these people is not why I play this game. I use my "powers" when the need arises, I don't go looking for reasons to use it and in my opinion no mod should.

 

As far as I know, that statement is completely and utterly false.

[Stev]

erm.... I don't think this is good proof that jagex is doing something about bots, I think its more proof that some one writing the scripts for said bots dun goofed.

 

The thing is, that often botters will mess up and get themselves killed on their own without Jagex's assistance. Any stupid ideas like bots are almost destined to fail eventually.

Living rock cavern bots are designed to 3 item. if they die, they lose some gold ore and tele/run right back.

[Stev]

You don't think they could create the fishing bots to bank once in a while and to only withdraw x amount of minerals? I've got a few hundred K in minerals... But never Ms. I'd assume they'd have more in the bank.

[Markup]

A lot of people use ----, we had over 1.4 million downloads this month and last week the bot was opened over 826,000 times.

These figures are growing, it is estimated that 2 in every 5 RuneScape players are using bots or have used a bot before.

[pal2002]

So to give the people in charge of bot banning some credit (I say this in lieu of Jagex because of how much I trust Jagex...), there have been more PERM banning reports, even for people who were given the "macro minor" temp ban before, however seemingly only on people who bot a ton of accounts from the same IP. These are given "macroing goldfarmer" perm bans despite the "macro minor" only carrying a 14 day ban.

 

SOME credit I said. But COME ON - people who bot 20 accounts from 1 IP address DESERVE an IP BAN. And they're not really gonna stop when some of their mules gets the perm. (I have dug through more past material and Jagex definitely gave out IP bans until at least 2006.)

 

And from what I can deduct - there's currently these tiers of macro punishment

- rollbacks - given to mostly 1st time offenders - no visible record/affect account status

- macro minor - 14 day ban -> 21 day ban - can be given multiple times, MAY be accompannied by stat and bank resets - most botters get this. Expires in 1 year

-macoring goldfarmer - perm ban

- manual perm ban - if you get caught by a Jmod in action

- and macroing major - here's the thing, I can't actually find anyone recently who's actually been given this perm ban carrying offense lately... And seriously - people who bot 24/7 for months still can only get the macroing minor - how [cabbage] hard do you actually have to try to cheat to be counted as "major"?

 

I seriously don't get this whole new tolerance of bots - by Jagex, and now slowly but surely, the community. I'm just extremely sick of people who type out "cheating is okay." It's not in real life, and should not be any different in RS.

[Stev]

A lot of people use ----, we had over 1.4 million downloads this month and last week the bot was opened over 826,000 times.

These figures are growing, it is estimated that 2 in every 5 RuneScape players are using bots or have used a bot before.

Was no doubt in my mind. They are easy to create, easier to maintain, and risk-free to use. Tempting... Isn't it. ;P.

 

I have no problem with the average player trying out a bot. They aren't affecting anything. It's the companies who run hundreds and hundreds of bots in each server, each minute.

 

I don't think these everyday players are botting for GP. They're botting because they have goals. Jagex's terrible grinding system makes some of these goals seem almost impossible. RuneScape is fun... For high levels. People don't want to spend countless boring grinding hours to be able to have that fun. Why would people bot for GP? Unless they've got 100 bots running at once, there's nothing profitable to actually bot that would result in 200K/night.

 

These companies with thousands of bots running at a given moment are ruining the game. But, then again, it depends on how you look at it. Someone getting 99 Smithing gains huge from the flock of Aviansie bots. A legit player doing Aviansies to up their range... Loses out.

 

One solution, which won't fix prices, is instanced training. Make every tree similar to tree patches in farming. Cut yours down, it's gone. But for the other person who's not cut that yew spot, he still has a tree there, or an adamant ore, etc.

[sebas379]

A lot of people use ----, we had over 1.4 million downloads this month and last week the bot was opened over 826,000 times.

These figures are growing, it is estimated that 2 in every 5 RuneScape players are using bots or have used a bot before.

Was no doubt in my mind. They are easy to create, easier to maintain, and risk-free to use. Tempting... Isn't it. ;P.

 

I have no problem with the average player trying out a bot. They aren't affecting anything. It's the companies who run hundreds and hundreds of bots in each server, each minute.

 

I don't think these everyday players are botting for GP. They're botting because they have goals. Jagex's terrible grinding system makes some of these goals seem almost impossible. RuneScape is fun... For high levels. People don't want to spend countless boring grinding hours to be able to have that fun. Why would people bot for GP? Unless they've got 100 bots running at once, there's nothing profitable to actually bot that would result in 200K/night.

 

These companies with thousands of bots running at a given moment are ruining the game. But, then again, it depends on how you look at it. Someone getting 99 Smithing gains huge from the flock of Aviansie bots. A legit player doing Aviansies to up their range... Loses out.

 

One solution, which won't fix prices, is instanced training. Make every tree similar to tree patches in farming. Cut yours down, it's gone. But for the other person who's not cut that yew spot, he still has a tree there, or an adamant ore, etc.

 

 

And they program their bots to look for certain items, certain sets of pixels, and voila, there they go cutting through the forest like a cannonball on fire.

It's an idea, but personally i don't think it'll stop the bots, apart from the most simple ones with fixed clicking points. But those are outdated anyways, so i heard

 

Not to mention the in-game space needed for 100k yews to grow, etc etc etc

[pal2002]

and so the number on that thread climbs

 

29,060

 

at some point I wonder if mod Chrisso is just writing down a number to soothe us all...

But whatever the case, at least they're acknowledging the huge extent of the cheating problem...somewhere...in a corner of the forums. Let's say they actually managed to catch 5% of all botters in game this way, which I really doubt, there would be over HALF A MILLION (580K..) cheating accounts. That is just a staggering amount of cheaters!

 

After a few email exchanges with Jagex customer service, I've find that Jagex seems very divided - there do appears to be some people who actually care about the bots and want to stop their laissez-faire attitude toward cheaters, but the corporate suits above still seems to think otherwise. FFS Jagex why did you have to go corporate? It works for lots of things, but destroys gaming companies. Their souls.

[The Observer]

RuneScape is a game that's easy to bot in. There's also more demand for it. That's why there's more bots. Comparing it to other games where there's less bots is usually counter-productive because there is a reasoning behind botting in the first place. Not to mention the different systems involved.

 

Bot busting I think is a wonderful thing that they've been doing. Trims down the problem. Sure it doesn't solve it, but it does help track down those main accounts of who is involved.

[Central_Keeper]

[spoiler=Previous quotes]

Actually, yesterday on W159, we sat and watched PMOD ignore a "broken" bot in Edgeville.

 

She did nothing -- didn't even report it -- while it kept trying to bank and typed "000000000000000000000000000000000" over and over again ...

 

Hell - she couldn't even be bothered to mute the damn thing.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Player Moderators are not forced to do anything different while playing the game. Just because they have the power to report does not mean they should. People who call Player Mods to come do something are the most irritating people in the game, "I know a Pmod I'll get them". As a Player Moderator myself there is very very few occasions where I'd go somewhere and do something for the sake of taking action against somebody, it would have to be a very extreme case that needs urgent attention to stop a risk of safety for others.

 

Also, use your ignore list. I've told you many times before yet you seem to have a problem doing that and always complain about people continuing on saying/doing bad things. Your ignore list exists for a reason, use it.

I always wanted to be a PMod. I probably would have non-stop bot hunted/scammer muted in w2. Shame, instead they seem to have given the position to more people who will mute you for saying the F word than people who actually do something.

 

You aren't forced to do anything different, but you should. If you aren't going to don't accept the [bleep]ing modship.

 

Afaik Player Mod reports for bots aren't handled any differently than normal players reporting them, so it doesn't matter who reports them in that case. Your attitude is the exactly opposite of what makes a good player mod. There are better ways of dealing with things than reporting every single person you see for doing the smallest stuff. Going out of your way to find these people is not why I play this game. I use my "powers" when the need arises, I don't go looking for reasons to use it and in my opinion no mod should.

 

As far as I know, that statement is completely and utterly false.

 

 

It's true that a player mod does not have to go out of his or her way to constantly seek out bots and report them all the time. Otherwise, it would be a "full time" job.

 

I am sure if some are training a skill, and notice quite a few, they will report them along the way. But they have no obligation to do anything even if they are player mod (it is up to them if they want to exercise their power, which is pretty much a temp mute). Of course, in the public eye, they "have" to do something, otherwise they shouldn't be deserving of their status. Still, some people forget that player moderator can also help players in game by giving them advice (and probably that's how they get picked in the first place), and not simply Jagex Volunteer Police force that goes out and patrol the entire Gielinor.

 

Clearly, most player forget that they have the power to report other who break rules, not just player mod. To my knowledge, every time a player object to something or ask player moderator some questions, their answer can often be found in knowledge base section, and when the mods tell them how to look for it at the RS site, mostly of them would say they are too lazy.....good grief.

 

I bet if Jagex start something like a Bot Busting GP credits, you get 500gp for every bot you report, the entire RS would be bot free in less than a week. Mind you, someone might just make a bot do just that to get even more money........lol

[Shinobu_Sensui]

[spoiler=Previous quotes]

Actually, yesterday on W159, we sat and watched PMOD ignore a "broken" bot in Edgeville.

 

She did nothing -- didn't even report it -- while it kept trying to bank and typed "000000000000000000000000000000000" over and over again ...

 

Hell - she couldn't even be bothered to mute the damn thing.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Player Moderators are not forced to do anything different while playing the game. Just because they have the power to report does not mean they should. People who call Player Mods to come do something are the most irritating people in the game, "I know a Pmod I'll get them". As a Player Moderator myself there is very very few occasions where I'd go somewhere and do something for the sake of taking action against somebody, it would have to be a very extreme case that needs urgent attention to stop a risk of safety for others.

 

Also, use your ignore list. I've told you many times before yet you seem to have a problem doing that and always complain about people continuing on saying/doing bad things. Your ignore list exists for a reason, use it.

I always wanted to be a PMod. I probably would have non-stop bot hunted/scammer muted in w2. Shame, instead they seem to have given the position to more people who will mute you for saying the F word than people who actually do something.

 

You aren't forced to do anything different, but you should. If you aren't going to don't accept the [bleep]ing modship.

 

Afaik Player Mod reports for bots aren't handled any differently than normal players reporting them, so it doesn't matter who reports them in that case. Your attitude is the exactly opposite of what makes a good player mod. There are better ways of dealing with things than reporting every single person you see for doing the smallest stuff. Going out of your way to find these people is not why I play this game. I use my "powers" when the need arises, I don't go looking for reasons to use it and in my opinion no mod should.

 

As far as I know, that statement is completely and utterly false.

 

 

It's true that a player mod does not have to go out of his or her way to constantly seek out bots and report them all the time. Otherwise, it would be a "full time" job.

 

I am sure if some are training a skill, and notice quite a few, they will report them along the way. But they have no obligation to do anything even if they are player mod (it is up to them if they want to exercise their power, which is pretty much a temp mute). Of course, in the public eye, they "have" to do something, otherwise they shouldn't be deserving of their status. Still, some people forget that player moderator can also help players in game by giving them advice (and probably that's how they get picked in the first place), and not simply Jagex Volunteer Police force that goes out and patrol the entire Gielinor.

 

Clearly, most player forget that they have the power to report other who break rules, not just player mod. To my knowledge, every time a player object to something or ask player moderator some questions, their answer can often be found in knowledge base section, and when the mods tell them how to look for it at the RS site, mostly of them would say they are too lazy.....good grief.

 

I bet if Jagex start something like a Bot Busting GP credits, you get 500gp for every bot you report, the entire RS would be bot free in less than a week. Mind you someone might just make a bot that do just that to get even more money........lol

Get bot that auto reports

set up a few accounts at world 1-2 ge

get 500gp for every "bot" reported

leave on for 72 hours

????

PROFIT!!!!

[Central_Keeper]

Actually, that would be a hard task to program such a bot, since the bots they report has to be genuinely a bot. So the complexity of such a program would eliminate most of the bot problem, and then Jagex just have to investigate the one that make too much report with odd traits (no lvls, stay on 72 hours just to report bots), and then ban those one. Problem solved....well, sort of.

[Shinobu_Sensui]

Actually, that would be a hard task to program such a bot, since the bots they report has to be genuinely a bot. So the complexity of such a program would eliminate most of the bot problem, and then Jagex just have to investigate the one that make too much report with odd traits (no lvls, stay on 72 hours just to report bots), and then ban those one. Problem solved....well, sort of.

Explain a genuinely bot. What do you mean by hard time programing? They almost have a bot/script for everything unless were talking about something different.

[Central_Keeper]

Actually, that would be a hard task to program such a bot, since the bots they report has to be genuinely a bot. So the complexity of such a program would eliminate most of the bot problem, and then Jagex just have to investigate the one that make too much report with odd traits (no lvls, stay on 72 hours just to report bots), and then ban those one. Problem solved....well, sort of.

Explain a genuinely bot. What do you mean by hard time programing? They almost have a bot/script for everything unless were talking about something different.

 

Well they would have to develop a bot that can differentiate the difference between a legitimate player and a bot. I just find it hard sometimes to tell if someone is botting or not because of their quite complex sub routines. So for example, if you just randomly report player would does a action repeatedly (like fm or cooking) but who isn't a bot, then the report would be useless and you can't get the 500gp reward (assuming we are still actually trying out for that silly reward). A bot that can tell genuine scripting or action of a bot is quite amazing (maybe its not, but I am noob when it comes to computer programming). So my silly idea was to create a bot that wipe out the mass generic less intelligent bots that exist in the RS (that one that gather resources and take up all the space). Then we develop a method to ID those smart bot and banned them all together. Just a thought.

[Bows]

I've edited my post with the number of accounts gathered/banned as of April 30th, 2011. That number is -- 31,267.

[pal2002]

It's good that they're finally doing in-game bans. However as I stated before, 31,267 out of like active 600K cheating accounts is really chicken scratch. If Jagex still truly is what some people still believe they are - that they still really want to stop bots, their strategy NEEDS to change to incorporate at least some of the following:

 

- perm bans for 1st botting offence, IP/subnet ban for 2nd - not 2nd, 3rd, 4th. 5th...20th account on the same IP like it is now

- mass bans with front page PR coverage as a warning

- something like Warden to detect and stop the most obvious bots and free scripts (~60% of all bots today)

- a period of severe bot detection - new randoms that ask intelligent CAPTCHA questions, aggressive randoms return, and

- a more secure game client - RS2 is so badly hacked now that I'm sure that the hackers and botmakers know as much as about the game as a Jagex coder does... If RS3 is ever coming out - I hope to that Jagex make it so that you really have to download a real client.

 

I truly believe RS can be as bot free as possible if Jagex really take time to implement these things - will they now is the question.

[Blyaunte]

Actually, yesterday on W159, we sat and watched PMOD ignore a "broken" bot in Edgeville.

 

She did nothing -- didn't even report it -- while it kept trying to bank and typed "000000000000000000000000000000000" over and over again ...

 

Hell - she couldn't even be bothered to mute the damn thing.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Player Moderators are not forced to do anything different while playing the game. Just because they have the power to report does not mean they should. People who call Player Mods to come do something are the most irritating people in the game, "I know a Pmod I'll get them". As a Player Moderator myself there is very very few occasions where I'd go somewhere and do something for the sake of taking action against somebody, it would have to be a very extreme case that needs urgent attention to stop a risk of safety for others.

 

Also, use your ignore list. I've told you many times before yet you seem to have a problem doing that and always complain about people continuing on saying/doing bad things. Your ignore list exists for a reason, use it.

 

Once again, a PMOD demonstrates that they, like Jagex, don't give a tinker's damn about the state of the game.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Go figure.

[DarkDude]

Actually, yesterday on W159, we sat and watched PMOD ignore a "broken" bot in Edgeville.

 

She did nothing -- didn't even report it -- while it kept trying to bank and typed "000000000000000000000000000000000" over and over again ...

 

Hell - she couldn't even be bothered to mute the damn thing.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Player Moderators are not forced to do anything different while playing the game. Just because they have the power to report does not mean they should. People who call Player Mods to come do something are the most irritating people in the game, "I know a Pmod I'll get them". As a Player Moderator myself there is very very few occasions where I'd go somewhere and do something for the sake of taking action against somebody, it would have to be a very extreme case that needs urgent attention to stop a risk of safety for others.

 

Also, use your ignore list. I've told you many times before yet you seem to have a problem doing that and always complain about people continuing on saying/doing bad things. Your ignore list exists for a reason, use it.

 

Once again, a PMOD demonstrates that they, like Jagex, don't give a tinker's damn about the state of the game.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Go figure.

 

Believe me I do. But if I'm in the middle of doing something then you ask me to come with you to just report people I'm not going to do it unless it's a VERY extreme case. You've clearly demonstrated that you have no idea what the role of a player moderator is in game. It is not a player mods job to do the reporting for you. If you don't bother reporting yourself and refuse to use the other tools available to you then it's very hypocritical of you to complain when Player Moderators aren't using their tools, is it not?

[Troi]

Before free trade jagex had a little control in this game, after the free trade every1 started botting on throwaway accs (ess bots etc), and really effected the prices. Free trade was our choise so we can't complain about RWT etc cuz we accepted it.

 

Jagex isn't the ''boss'' of the game anymore, never was tbh, they are just like cops now. It's good they have this update because its gone to far and jagex trying to do something about it.

 

There always will be bots in this game. But when it goes to far they need to do something about it. This is really effecting other legit players there gameplay. They need to respond harder to this bot community, this is just trying to scare them.

[Stev]

Free trade was our choise so we can't complain about RWT etc cuz we accepted it.

Would have happened whether we voted or not. It was well planned and scheduled before-hand.

[Saxon]

Jagex should make a Bot Busting Skill.

[Bows]

Jagex should make a Bot Busting Skill.

People would bot it.

[Blyaunte]

Actually, yesterday on W159, we sat and watched PMOD ignore a "broken" bot in Edgeville.

 

She did nothing -- didn't even report it -- while it kept trying to bank and typed "000000000000000000000000000000000" over and over again ...

 

Hell - she couldn't even be bothered to mute the damn thing.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Player Moderators are not forced to do anything different while playing the game. Just because they have the power to report does not mean they should. People who call Player Mods to come do something are the most irritating people in the game, "I know a Pmod I'll get them". As a Player Moderator myself there is very very few occasions where I'd go somewhere and do something for the sake of taking action against somebody, it would have to be a very extreme case that needs urgent attention to stop a risk of safety for others.

 

Also, use your ignore list. I've told you many times before yet you seem to have a problem doing that and always complain about people continuing on saying/doing bad things. Your ignore list exists for a reason, use it.

 

Once again, a PMOD demonstrates that they, like Jagex, don't give a tinker's damn about the state of the game.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Go figure.

 

Believe me I do. But if I'm in the middle of doing something then you ask me to come with you to just report people I'm not going to do it unless it's a VERY extreme case. You've clearly demonstrated that you have no idea what the role of a player moderator is in game. It is not a player mods job to do the reporting for you. If you don't bother reporting yourself and refuse to use the other tools available to you then it's very hypocritical of you to complain when Player Moderators aren't using their tools, is it not?

1. I never asked a Pmod to come and deal with the botter in the case cited above -- where the [bleep] you got this idea I'll never know -- but once again you're way off base, reading something in this commentary that isn't there, and missing the point entirely. Not surprising really.

2. The point WAS that, in light of Jagex's "grand display" of their super secret anti-botting scheme, one would think that, while an obvious bot is being obvious, and breaking numerous rules -- including disruptive play, spamming and botting -- one would THINK that the Pmod who was on the scene at that particular time anyway, would have taken appropriate action. Which she did not.

 

:rolleyes:

[DarkDude]

Player Moderators are not forced to do anything, I'm not saying that the player moderator shouldn't have reported that person but they have absolutely no requirement to. And for that matter, how do you know that the player mod didn't report the bot?

 

And again I point out your hypocrisy, if you do not use all the tools available to you to stop something then you can not complain when others do the same. If you reported them for botting then added them to your ignore list it wouldn't matter to you if the Player Mod did anything or not. You had enough power yourself to stop it being a problem for you (which is what you seem to be complaining about, saying how it was spamming when you were banking) and yet you seemingly did nothing about it. Your problem to deal with then and you can't complain about anyone else.

[BioIce]

Player Moderators are not forced to do anything, I'm not saying that the player moderator shouldn't have reported that person but they have absolutely no requirement to.

 

That's the problem. People expect them to, expect that white crown is for more than show or a status symbol. That it's a responsibility. Why be held in high regard by Jagex - way many see it - when you're not going to exercise even the slight power to temporarily mute?

 

Player moderators aren't anything like Game Moderators/Masters in other MMOs, and it's this mistaken belief that's at issue, I think.