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TIF is bit over-moderated


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It's all just an excuse to be biased at this point. We are nearing two weeks without a verifiable response from Jagex. I think this whole siggy thing has exposed a number of serious issues with the TIF moderation;

 

1. It is used to target other sites. Why else would TEF links be banned for having "botting scripts" while scripts are being posted here at TIF. Never mind that they are only mentioned in one thread on TEF. Never mind that the very first part of the thread has Wicked telling people to abide by the 1:1 rule when they use the scripts.

 

2. Guilty until proven innocent has resulted in a significant number of users being punished before TIF even is able to present evidence proving their guilt. Fair? No. Reasonable? No. Reflecting well on the TIF staff? No.

 

3. Apparently it is the official policy to moderate based on moderators discretion. The idea of moderating based on the whole of a persons posts is ridiculous. I've been banned for only a few trolling posts after about 1k helpful posts on H&A. If you were looking at the whole of my posts then I don't think those five should have counted. Really what I feel is going on is sometimes moderators use one mentality and sometimes the other, really to suit their own personal whims. That is very biased and unfair.

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It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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1. It is used to target other sites. Why else would TEF links be banned for having "botting scripts" while scripts are being posted here at TIF. Never mind that they are only mentioned in one thread on TEF. Never mind that the very first part of the thread has Wicked telling people to abide by the 1:1 rule when they use the scripts.

 

Because, to our knowledge, these scripts are illegal. You forget that we already messaged your admins with instructions of how to change them, and which ones to remove, if you wanted to be able to link here. They didn't take us up on it.

 

2. Guilty until proven innocent has resulted in a significant number of users being punished before TIF even is able to present evidence proving their guilt. Fair? No. Reasonable? No. Reflecting well on the TIF staff? No.

 

Nobody has actually been banned or otherwise punished for having links in their signatures.

 

3. Apparently it is the official policy to moderate based on moderators discretion. The idea of moderating based on the whole of a persons posts is ridiculous. I've been banned for only a few trolling posts after about 1k helpful posts on H&A. If you were looking at the whole of my posts then I don't think those five should have counted. Really what I feel is going on is sometimes moderators use one mentality and sometimes the other, really to suit their own personal whims. That is very biased and unfair.

 

That wasn't what she meant. What she meant was, that when confronted with the particular issue (of having AHK linked to in a signature), we have to try to verify the intention behind it. We decided that it was being linked to as third party software used to (possibly) break runescape rules, so we deleted it. In fact, the user in question confirmed (on this topic) that he only linked it to try to incite some sort of reaction out of us.

 

I find it interesting as well that you're so up in arms about "being banned for only a few trolling posts". Iirc, several accounts on TEF have been banned for a single post that's barely trolling; yet I don't see you advocating a more balanced approach to moderation there.

 

How else can we moderate, but on moderator's discretion? Not every troll post has a giant label on it, stamped "TROLL", not every spam post is simply "lol", etc, etc. It's up to us to make a determination of whether content is acceptable for the forum, and this is often a matter of opinion.

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It's all just an excuse to be biased at this point. We are nearing two weeks without a verifiable response from Jagex. I think this whole siggy thing has exposed a number of serious issues with the TIF moderation;

 

1. It is used to target other sites. Why else would TEF links be banned for having "botting scripts" while scripts are being posted here at TIF. Never mind that they are only mentioned in one thread on TEF. Never mind that the very first part of the thread has Wicked telling people to abide by the 1:1 rule when they use the scripts.

 

We are actively discussing the scripts posted here on TIF. If we see them as agains the rules they will also be removed. A warning saying not to use is just not going to work and can be used to 'loophole' yourself out of a situation, knowing full well that people can and will use something to bot.

 

2. Guilty until proven innocent has resulted in a significant number of users being punished before TIF even is able to present evidence proving their guilt. Fair? No. Reasonable? No. Reflecting well on the TIF staff? No.

 

Nobody had to be punished, it was the users who decided to go against our word after us telling them that we don't allow something that have been punished. Therefore the punishment didn't come as a consequence of the scripts, but as a consequence of the actions.

 

We are not going to let something stay on the forum that could be potentially rule breaking while we gather the evidence for it. According to the evidence we have at hand, the scripts are more likely to be rule breaking than not. It would be negligent for us to just allow something until we have proof of it being against the rules when we highly suspect, that it is. We are also gathering more evidence to end the whole conflict as a final say, but while that is coming, we have to use what we currently have.

 

3. Apparently it is the official policy to moderate based on moderators discretion. The idea of moderating based on the whole of a persons posts is ridiculous. I've been banned for only a few trolling posts after about 1k helpful posts on H&A. If you were looking at the whole of my posts then I don't think those five should have counted. Really what I feel is going on is sometimes moderators use one mentality and sometimes the other, really to suit their own personal whims. That is very biased and unfair.

 

If you don't break the rules, you don't get punished. It is not a hard rule to follow. Having a good history should never make you exempt from being warned or punished if you post the same amount of rule breaking that another user posts who also gets punished. That would be unfair and biased.

 

 

 

 

Again, we are waiting for the evidence to ave a final say, but while we are waiting we have to use what we currently have available which tells us that certain scripts are against the rules. Until we get that evidence, we have a policy to maintain. Breaking our rules will still bring punishments.

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Sorry if this post is cumbersome.

 

1. @ Danq I hope you allow users to exercise judgement. I mean if people want to bot it takes about 30 seconds on google to find an open source macroing site. Botters will bot no matter what. That is why a warning on the thread to follow the 1:1 rule should suffice.

 

@ Y_Guy Please show me what you are basing this off of. Wicked has explained how the scripts cannot be illegal because they have no input values and therefor cannot break the 1:1 rule. This makes perfect sense. Please share what you have on your end.

 

2. @ Y_Guy TEF has been punished as most of our members are either former TIFers or on both forums. It's a small, still growing forum based off of research. If there are less members and less research going on the then as a whole our community is hurt. So by removing links for such a petty reason you are hurting our whole community. Moreover, there are often time when we would like to link people in H&A to TEF guides and research that would help them. We can't and it hurts our ability to help them.

 

@ Danq Again, show us this evidence. TEF users including the person who wrote the scripts have posted extensive evidence in this thread on why and how they are legal. Post yours.

 

3. Eniad said this in response to Cheesy; "In short, if you were a nice user with nothing whatsoever to do with pages of botting scripts, then yes, we may have left the link. As it stands you don't have our trust in this."

 

@ Danq This shows that the mods here do take all prior actions into consideration sometimes which is certainly biased as it is at their discretion when to do so. Merely being a TEF member means you can no longer post links to scripting sites. Makes no sense to me.

 

@ Y_Guy I'm not up in arms about that, I used it as an example. Stop trying to paint me in a negative light.

 

We don't have a considerable number of people at TEF advocating moderation changes. It is much more holistic, for example removed posts are moved to a public forum which creates accountability on the part of both mods and users. So while a few people may have been banned quickly, it is for very specific reasons. I'm not an admin at TEF so you would need to talk to one of them about this. I can just say that as a whole the moderation over there is very different. Part of that is that we are quite a small forum. I never advocated for TIF to be more like TEF either.

PM me in game anytime

 

It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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@ Y_Guy Please show me what you are basing this off of. Wicked has explained how the scripts cannot be illegal because they have no input values and therefor cannot break the 1:1 rule. This makes perfect sense. Please share what you have on your end.

 

It doesn't make perfect sense, because it's impossible to call a function with more than one input. You can press multiple keys, yes, but the computer tests to see if multiple keys are pressed when the keys are hit, and the function is run not in stages, but only once, all at once, once the keys are hit. It's one input, not multiples. That's my understanding of Jagex' interpretation, and I believe that's what they'll be clarifying.

 

2. @ Y_Guy TEF has been punished as most of our members are either former TIFers or on both forums. It's a small, still growing forum based off of research. If there are less members and less research going on the then as a whole our community is hurt. So by removing links for such a petty reason you are hurting our whole community. Moreover, there are often time when we would like to link people in H&A to TEF guides and research that would help them. We can't and it hurts our ability to help them.

 

You could, if you removed the scripts.

 

@ Y_Guy I'm not up in arms about that, I used it as an example. Stop trying to paint me in a negative light.

 

We don't have a considerable number of people at TEF advocating moderation changes. It is much more holistic, for example removed posts are moved to a public forum which creates accountability on the part of both mods and users. So while a few people may have been banned quickly, it is for very specific reasons. I'm not an admin at TEF so you would need to talk to one of them about this. I can just say that as a whole the moderation over there is very different. Part of that is that we are quite a small forum. I never advocated for TIF to be more like TEF either.

 

And we ban people here for specific reasons as well. It seems to be to be a little hypocritical, that's all.

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The inputs are empty, it is up to the user to make them obey the 1:1. So they CAN break the rules, just as they CAN abide by them. It's not that hard to understand.

 

Telling us we can do something if we change our behavior amounts to a punishment. You originally said nobody was punished for having the links in their siggies. Removing them from the giggies amounts to punishment.

 

And whatever your opinions about TEF moderation are, I'm sure you can go over there and create a thread to discuss them. Discussing them here are a little offtopic.

PM me in game anytime

 

It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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The inputs are empty, it is up to the user to make them obey the 1:1. So they CAN break the rules, just as they CAN abide by them. It's not that hard to understand.

 

Telling us we can do something if we change our behavior amounts to a punishment. You originally said nobody was punished for having the links in their siggies. Removing them from the giggies amounts to punishment.

 

And whatever your opinions about TEF moderation are, I'm sure you can go over there and create a thread to discuss them. Discussing them here are a little offtopic.

 

What I'm telling you is that as these functions do more than one action it is impossible to call them in a manner that follows the rules.

 

Editing them out is not punishment. I was quite clear in my messages that no warn levels were altered and having the links were not considered an offense as they had previously been allowed.

 

If we were so against TEF, why would we have allowed these links in the first place? (Bear in mind most other fansites have strict rules against any kind of advertising for other fansites, signatures included)

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That first sentence doesn't even make sense.

 

Okay, well you can consider it whatever you want. A reasonable number of people consider it to be punishment, though not in the form of a warning or ban. I don't know how to make it any simpler for you to understand. Though it is not an official warning/ban you are taking action against our accounts by limiting what we can or cannot put in our siggies.

PM me in game anytime

 

It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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That first sentence doesn't even make sense.

 

 

On the contrary, it makes a lot of sense to anyone experienced in the programming field. I will say once again, according to Jagex(and I agree), simultaneous key presses are not multiple inputs, they are one input. It is impossible to call a function once by pressing keys separately.

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I've been on websites which ban the use of external links completely citing child safety as the reason (belief or disbelief is up to you). In fact, one such website happens to be the most popular fansite for one of Nintendo best-selling franchises.

 

The idea you guys are being picked on is really quite laughable, if we're being blunt. In being able to post ELs in the first place, you have no idea how lucky you are.

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I've been on websites which ban the use of external links completely citing child safety as the reason (belief or disbelief is up to you). In fact, one such website happens to be the most popular fansite for one of Nintendo best-selling franchises.

 

The idea you guys are being picked on is really quite laughable, if we're being blunt. In being able to post ELs in the first place, you have no idea how lucky you are.

 

Ah, so we shouldn't complain because that's how it is for other forums (Nintendo, lol), and we should just consider ourselves lucky.

 

You should, like, actually try to add to the discussion once in awhile.

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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If you think your sly back-handed insults will stop me from making an example than you're sadly mistaken.

 

I'm merely reminding you all of the liberties every TIF user already takes for granted, and that people in glasshouses should not cast stones.

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If you think your sly back-handed insults will stop me from making an example than you're sadly mistaken.

 

I'm merely reminding you all of the liberties every TIF user already takes for granted, and that people in glasshouses should not cast stones.

 

Thanks for that enlightening drivel. =D>

 

And on the subject of functions (something that's actually relevant to this discussion), are any of the TIF staff knowledgeable in AHK coding? I'm just curious as to how Wicked's proof that the functions are 1:1 can be cast aside without any counter-evidence other than "because we say so."

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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If you think your sly back-handed insults will stop me from making an example than you're sadly mistaken.

 

I'm merely reminding you all of the liberties every TIF user already takes for granted, and that people in glasshouses should not cast stones.

 

Thanks for that enlightening drivel. =D>

 

And on the subject of functions (something that's actually relevant to this discussion), are any of the TIF staff knowledgeable in AHK coding? I'm just curious as to how Wicked's proof that the functions are 1:1 can be cast aside without any counter-evidence other than "because we say so."

 

I already clearly indicated how those functions cannot be called legally according to Jagex's definition of an input.

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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this thread

 

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"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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Can TEF be the cute redhead?

 

>redhead

>redheads have no souls

>bots have no souls

>TEF is full of bots and rapists

>TEF is the redhead

 

Das did that on purpose.

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What Das didn't tell you, is that he's a ginger!

 

Oh, so you can talk about former staffs hair color but we can't talk about staff professions? :ugeek:

 

(teasing)

PM me in game anytime

 

It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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So I think the issue can boiled down to two simple script using the following four functions:

[spoiler=Functions]

function1() {
Click right
}
function2() {
MouseMove, 0, 37, 2, R
}
function3() {
Click
}

function4() {
function1()
function2()
function3()
}

 

 

and the following two scripts, the first of which we can all agree to be legal, and the second of which certain people believe to be illegal.

 

[spoiler=Legal Script]

c::function1()
a::function2()
t::function3()

 

 

With this one, typing "c a t" will drop the item under the mouse, and each letter produces a different input.

 

Here, typing "dog" will drop the item under the mouse, but instead of doing a different action after each input, it waits until the whole phrase has been typed to do anything.

 

Personally, I think the second script is legal, as it takes 3 inputs to produce 3 actions, and, if I so desired, I could add sleeps in between the function calls to make up for the time in between pressing "c" and "a" with the first script, so that the end output of the two scripts is EXACTLY the same.

Edited by Y_Guy
bad script removed
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Except that's not the way it works. You can't type "dog", you have to hold d, o, and then press g, just like CTRL+ALT+DELETE. Hence, one input. Not to mention that none of the scripts use sleeps as far as I'm aware(although I don't think that would make a difference).

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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Das flaunts his red hair to the world though :(

 

 

I'm not ginger, but Allyson Hannigan, Karen Gillian, Gillian Anderson, Heather Carolin, Faye Reagan, Jennifer Korbin, Phoebe Price, Bryce Dallas Howard, Lindy Booth, Alicia Witt, Angelica Bridges and Christina Hendricks are lovely.

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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Das flaunts his red hair to the world though :(

 

 

I'm not ginger, but Allyson Hannigan, Karen Gillian, Gillian Anderson, Heather Carolin, Faye Reagan, Jennifer Korbin, Phoebe Price, Bryce Dallas Howard, Lindy Booth, Alicia Witt, Angelica Bridges and Christina Hendricks are lovely.

How did I know you would mention Faye Reagan, das? :shades:

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

RIP Michaelangelopolous

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