soul split vs protection prayer

[michel555555]

So I've been dueling alot latly and have noticed that someone who is a low level in prayer (piety and normal prayers) and fights against someone with soul split and turmoil that the person using a protection prayer always gets called a noob ect for using protection prayers when fighting someone with soul split on.

 

So I am wondering what everyone elses views are on this since soul split and protection prayer are essentially the same thing.

 

With soul split you heal for 20% of damage you do while protection prayers block 40% of damage done. Protection prayers do block more but with turmoil a person with soul split will do more damage then someone with piety and will heal more. That and protection prayers are easy to avoid by switching styles.

 

I know there have been severeal threads about the "honor" of using protection prayers in duel and wild but I don't think i've seen one yet asking whether soul split is any different.

[SirIzenhime]

People crying about something

 

That's all it is.

[Master_Smither]

I, for one, am I large supporter of using prayers whenever you please. If someone is using a high level prayer against you and the only way to defend yourself is to use protect from whatever, then do so. It's about winning at the duel arena, not honor. As long as you don't go and cheat to win, that is. Also, it's about whining that you can't wreck the person you're dueling. Pretty simple :P.

[jjjon123]

omg ur messing up my turm naow i cant hit 600s omg u noob u such a nerd omfg

 

^ thats why

[Crossed_Body]

"All is fair in love and war." ~Mahatma Gandhi

[Veiva]

I find this topic kind of overdone...

 

Anyway, there's the side that is like "It's in the game so use it and STFU" and the other that's "This aspect is overpowered, just like <cheap gimmick in some unrelated game>." That's why, e.g., certain moves/characters/cards are banned in other games.

 

What prayers remind me of most is competitive Pokemon: using protect from melee is like using a super defensive Pokemon, just like overloads are like using a super offensive Pokemon. In competitive environments, if one Pokemon can unbalance the whole metagame, then it is banned. Just like in RuneScape, if one aspect overpowers another instead of being balanced, it's considered unfair. Overloads are more extreme (no pun intended...really) than Protect from Melee and Company, but the point still stands.

[Crossed_Body]

What prayers remind me of most is competitive Pokemon: using protect from melee is like using a super defensive Pokemon, just like overloads are like using a super offensive Pokemon.

Except that in runescape, every "pokemon" can have every "move", so all is fair.

[Veiva]

What prayers remind me of most is competitive Pokemon: using protect from melee is like using a super defensive Pokemon, just like overloads are like using a super offensive Pokemon.

Except that in runescape, every "pokemon" can have every "move", so all is fair.

 

That analogy is flawed. Pokemon is not 1v1. A better example would be that everyone has access to every Pokemon so I don't see your point. Mewtwo vs Mewtwo in RBY is still overpowered as heck.

 

Or, to refer back the card example, everyone has access to say, Triple-eyed Fire Dragon of Death with Wings of Power in the Super Card Game (say it was super common). However, what if it outclassed every other card? It would then be banned.

 

Another thing is that a level 43 prayer outclasses a level 95 one. People whine for high leveled updates, but when a low level one neuters the high level one, why are the same people not upset?

[Crossed_Body]

That analogy is flawed. Pokemon is not 1v1. A better example would be that everyone has access to every Pokemon so I don't see your point. Mewtwo vs Mewtwo in RBY is still overpowered as heck.

So... Two equally powerful pokemons facing each other lacks game balance? I don't think you understand what relativity is, let me explain it to you:

 

If one this is equal to another in power, then those two things are balanced.

If one thing, on the other hand, has an advantage over the other, then you can say that one has a power advantage. Call it "overpowered" if you will.

 

The point is, at any given point in time, any player can be perfectly balanced to match their opponent; If they choose not to do so, one player will obviously have the advantage. However, you are still at fault for going into battle with a handicap (it is your responsibility to match your opponent in power).

So, to go with your pokemon analogy;

Don't put your lvl 3 rattata against a lvl99 rattata and expect to have the right to complain.

[aspeeder]

They're probably raging because they spent the 100mil+ gp on 95 prayer and aren't seeing the gamebreaking difference they expected. If they spend 100mil+ they have the right to tear through everything else, and if they don't they'll whine the others are being unfair :rolleyes: .

[Crossed_Body]

They're probably raging because they spent the 100mil+ gp on 95 prayer and aren't seeing the gamebreaking difference they expected. If they spend 100mil+ they have the right to tear through everything else, and if they don't they'll whine the others are being unfair :rolleyes: .

Deflect + Turmoil still beats Protect + Piety by a longshot, I see no reason to whine about it. Even if it was weaker than piety on players, it'd still be worth the 100mil for PvE alone.

[Veiva]

That analogy is flawed. Pokemon is not 1v1. A better example would be that everyone has access to every Pokemon so I don't see your point. Mewtwo vs Mewtwo in RBY is still overpowered as heck.

So... Two equally powerful pokemons facing each other lacks game balance? I don't think you understand what relativity is, let me explain it to you:

 

If one this is equal to another in power, then those two things are balanced.

If one thing, on the other hand, has an advantage over the other, then you can say that one has a power advantage. Call it "overpowered" if you will.

 

The point is, at any given point in time, any player can be perfectly balanced to match their opponent; If they choose not to do so, one player will obviously have the advantage. However, you are still at fault for going into battle with a handicap (it is your responsibility to match your opponent in power).

So, to go with your pokemon analogy;

Don't put your lvl 3 rattata against a lvl99 rattata and expect to have the right to complain.

 

The game either ends in a stalemate, or a clean sweep. Mewtwo vs Mewtwo is a stalemate in RBY. No one wins. You seem to misunderstand the point. Protect prayers remove 40% or so of damage, which negates turmoil. Deflect prayers are the same.

 

The Pokemon analogy would be more akin to a level 100 Mewtwo vs a level 100 Mewtwo with a moveset the sharply raises special. They'd both be "balanced" but at the cost of neither being able to do anything. After all, if it's allowed in the game, it's all right, right? Tell that to competitive people of all kinds of video games/card games and watch them laugh and walk away.

 

A better example would be Blissey vs Blissey in games before Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. Two identical Blissey cannot kill each other, regardless of time. This is because they'll out-heal the damage done to them due to Leftovers. No one wins, literally. Therefore, such situations were (and still are) generally banned.

 

I would also like to clarify that I don't really care if someone uses protect prayers in PvP, unless it was agreed that protect prayers are disallowed. I understand both sides, but the latter side (protect prayers are bad/overpowered in PvP) is terribly misrepresented here.

 

Oh, and I do understand relativity. There is really no need to act in such a manner.

[Alphanos]

If you want to duel someone without protect prayers, use the checkbox to disable prayers. Simple as that.

[Da_Latios]

"All is fair in love and war." ~Mahatma Gandhi

John Lyly*

 

On topic: I usually use Soul Split in situations like Castle Wars and Soul Wars, simply because I use fewer bandages/I can go longer without dying.

 

I also use Soul Split in Duel Arena because fights are quick and I just enjoy using Soul Split. If someone uses protection prayers, why should I care? I can use them too.

[gspbeetle]

The game either ends in a stalemate, or a clean sweep. Mewtwo vs Mewtwo is a stalemate in RBY. No one wins. You seem to misunderstand the point. Protect prayers remove 40% or so of damage, which negates turmoil. Deflect prayers are the same.

 

The Pokemon analogy would be more akin to a level 100 Mewtwo vs a level 100 Mewtwo with a moveset the sharply raises special. They'd both be "balanced" but at the cost of neither being able to do anything. After all, if it's allowed in the game, it's all right, right? Tell that to competitive people of all kinds of video games/card games and watch them laugh and walk away.

 

A better example would be Blissey vs Blissey in games before Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. Two identical Blissey cannot kill each other, regardless of time. This is because they'll out-heal the damage done to them due to Leftovers. No one wins, literally. Therefore, such situations were (and still are) generally banned.

 

I would also like to clarify that I don't really care if someone uses protect prayers in PvP, unless it was agreed that protect prayers are disallowed. I understand both sides, but the latter side (protect prayers are bad/overpowered in PvP) is terribly misrepresented here.

 

Oh, and I do understand relativity. There is really no need to act in such a manner.

 

I am not sure why are we still in this pokemon analogy, we cant out heal damage done by players in this game without potions and food, even with 40% reduced damage and healing specials.

Besides, we only have limited inventory stocks for food and potions, so there is no true stalemate.

[Crossed_Body]

The game either ends in a stalemate, or a clean sweep. Mewtwo vs Mewtwo is a stalemate in RBY. No one wins. You seem to misunderstand the point. Protect prayers remove 40% or so of damage, which negates turmoil. Deflect prayers are the same.

But PvP in runescape is exactly that. Since the skill ceiling is so low, you arrive to a point where it is all luck based.

I don't understand, are you arguing that the game shouldn't be balanced? This thread isn't even about that.

[Wkw]

You fail to realize that as long as both players do not attack on the same tick, you can both use soul split and proteection during a fight

[Veiva]

The game either ends in a stalemate, or a clean sweep. Mewtwo vs Mewtwo is a stalemate in RBY. No one wins. You seem to misunderstand the point. Protect prayers remove 40% or so of damage, which negates turmoil. Deflect prayers are the same.

But PvP in runescape is exactly that. Since the skill ceiling is so low, you arrive to a point where it is all luck based.

I don't understand, are you arguing that the game shouldn't be balanced? This thread isn't even about that.

 

I am arguing the game should be balanced, and protect prayers, to a degree, imbalance it. Then again, so do prayers like Turmoil (in the PvP arena). And I agree, the game is too luck based. That's why I don't PvP anymore.

[pakalolo_mon]

People don't like protect prayers because it just draws the fight out unnecessarily. 2 people meleeing them without protect from melee would essentially be the same, just slower if both were to use protect from melee.

 

This may be a little irrelevant but this thread made me remember one time a top FoG friend of mine said that people who use unis are the scum of FoG.

[Quyneax]

Actually if you are going to use protect from melee and heavy melee gear, Verac's suddenly becomes rather good (at least in my experience of getting hammered).

 

Protect prayers would indeed draw out a fight rather a lot, and if you pray you're essentially forcing someone to switch styles which I guess people cba doing. A good hybrid would switch and kill you I suppose.

[Crossed_Body]

hammered

My experience on getting hammered must be very different from yours...

[Dazzuh]

hammered

My experience on getting hammered must be very different from yours...

 

You did a funny

 

I think if you're able to activate your prayers, use them. Simple as that.

[michel555555]

This topics turning into another of the protection prayers debates. I was hoping for someone to post some justification as to why soul split is any different then protection prayers in duels and why one is commonly used but people look down upon protection prays when they are essentially the same thing.

[Alphanos]

This topics turning into another of the protection prayers debates. I was hoping for someone to post some justification as to why soul split is any different then protection prayers in duels and why one is commonly used but people look down upon protection prays when they are essentially the same thing.

 

Kids to see big hits. Protect prayers mess up their big hits, and soul split doesn't.

[Blutters]

Seems to be a lot of jealousy here about how some people can buy 95+ prayer and some can't. I mean, that's what it boils down to, although feel free to argue, because I know someone will.

 

Soulsplit doesn't equal Protect prayers. Deflects are the equivalent of Protects. Soulsplit is the equivalent of Smite. Equivalent does not mean equal, however.

 

If there is some point to non-stake fun duels other than seeing big hits, please enlighten me.

 

If you're going to use Protect from Melee in a non-stake melee duel with absolutely nothing on the line just to spite me for having had trained to 92/95 Prayer, yeah, I may ridicule you.

But more likely than that, I'll throw on Deflect Melee, Chaotic Kiteshield, and Torag's.

How much fun is this long, drawn-out duel now?