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Fixing the Issue


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52 replies to this topic

#1
Nash
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Before I ask my question I want to share two stories with you guys.


Storytime 1;



Storytime 2;


So theres two different approaches to handling a similar problem. One is shutting the game down and giving up (or removing free trade and wildy), and one was a very aggressive approach to target the rule breakers and only the rule breakers.

Lets look at the solutions theyve used thus far;
-Banning botters
This only makes a difference in the short-term and doesnt do anything long-term.

-Updating the bot detection system
With every update here, the bot devs just make another update to counteract it.

-Removing free trade/wildy
This worked a little, it got rid of the gold farming bots but not the regular players from botting.

Jagex needs a different tactic with combating the bots. The Removal of Free Trade DID work but it hurt the rest of the scaper community. They need methods that will remove the bots without hurting the rest of us.

Other Solutions (things ive seen around the other threads);

-Add less grind to the game.
This would give the regular players less reason to bot as there would be fun and more rewarding methods of training.

-Test/scan for injection EVERY time a person logs in.
This would get rid of a TON of the bots since alot of them run on injection (I think they use injection still)

-Continue with the bot hunts.
Its a decent way to combat the popular botting spots.

-Add more untradeables to the game
If people needed gold less and needed to just play the game to acquire untradeable content, it would defeat the need for rwt sites selling so much gold.



Whats everyones thoughts? Obviously Jagex makes way too much money to consider shutting the game down but where do we go from here? We need methods other than banning bots and updating the random events and other botting detections they have in place now.

How do we remove the need for gold.
How do we remove the grinding, making the need for bots to do tedious tasks obsolete.
Wheres the happy median between having free trade and wildy and NOT having free trade and wildy?

All questions We and Jagex need to look into. Rather than complaining and turning on Jagex we need to suggest solutions; if they dont take any of the suggestions THEN complain about it. Spend more time in the Suggestions section of these forums rather than the RANTS section.

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#2
jijilentosmi
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Actually if the test for injection thing really works, that would be a perfect solution.
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#3
Nash
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They apparently do the injection test on people suspected for botting as part of their "bot detection" system but im not sure if thats just a rumor or not. If they do already do that why not just run the test every time somebody logs in right?

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#4
Monky
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Im not accustom to the injection thing your on about. But, wouldnt botter be able to Log in>Gets tested for this program>Passes test>Launches program? lol...

Surely they would have to run this test every so ofter, and it would lag the servers like crazy.
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#5
Sly_Wizard
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Make Runescape downloadable, which would also include a bot detection system.

#6
BabyPunchers
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Make Runescape downloadable, which would also include a bot detection system.


This.

So much this.

This.

If they make the game downloadable and, because of that, make a better bot detection system, then I'll sure as hell download it.

Too bad it will never happen as Jagex really wants Runescape to be accessible to everyone. :cry:
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#7
Nash
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Im not accustom to the injection thing your on about. But, wouldnt botter be able to Log in>Gets tested for this program>Passes test>Launches program? lol...

Surely they would have to run this test every so ofter, and it would lag the servers like crazy.



The bots inject their client into the games actual java coding. So if you do tests to look for that injection it will flag them and not let them in. Also tests while they play would be good since you do raise an interesting point. I dont know how it would effect the lags on the servers, since it would only test a fraction of the people online at any one time, not all at once.

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#8
Monky
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Thanks for clearing that up Nash. Perhaps, If Jagex were to impliment this testing in the loading of a random event? or just everytime there is a load screen. Im sure the community would rather wait half a second more on loading screens than wait 10 mins more finding a bot free world.
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#9
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Im not accustom to the injection thing your on about. But, wouldnt botter be able to Log in>Gets tested for this program>Passes test>Launches program? lol...

Surely they would have to run this test every so ofter, and it would lag the servers like crazy.



The bots inject their client into the games actual java coding. So if you do tests to look for that injection it will flag them and not let them in. Also tests while they play would be good since you do raise an interesting point. I dont know how it would effect the lags on the servers, since it would only test a fraction of the people online at any one time, not all at once.

Not exactly how bots work.

Even if they did scan for bot software, that's extremely easy to avoid.

To the idea about making the game downloadable and then adding a bot detection system, it would be just as easy, if not more, to bypass as Punkbuster/Hackshield's anti-cheat for other games. We can have a bypass for those -10 minutes after they've done an update. Now, I highly doubt Jagex's bot detection systems will even near those of Punkbuster/Hackshield. C'mon now... It's Jagex.

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#10
NoHopeLeft
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Why hasn't Jagex tried replacing random events with Captchas yet?

A money pouch would be cool. So would a remote price checker. But honestly I'm thinking an insta-Jcoins-market. LOW ON PRAYER AND DONT LIKE XP WASTE?! BUY AN ULTRA PRAYER RESTORE POTION INSTANTLY FOR JUST 75 CENTS! STAY AT BANDOS ALL DAY/AS LONG YOU HAVE MONEY!


#11
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There's already software that can tackle difficult captchas. I also doubt they'd go about this method as some people with various disabilities can struggle with them.

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#12
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You're assuming Jagex wants to end the bot problem.
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#13
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Why hasn't Jagex tried replacing random events with Captchas yet?


I remember they tried this with the 'fatigue' system... You got tired and had to rest at a bed (and later they added sleeping bags), and when you rested you had to pass a captcha. I don't remember why they ended up removing it, seemed like a good idea (with sleeping bags not the beds, that was annoying), then again, I'm sure it wouldn't take long before they could code around that too.




EDIT: My memory is foggy since this was so long ago, but upon further thought I think it was removed with the release of RS2 and replaced with the current random events. Which, IMO, seem to be much less effective.

#14
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You're assuming Jagex wants to end the bot problem.


sadly...this.


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#15
Kaida23
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You're assuming Jagex wants to end the bot problem.

I'm sure they do, but they haven't yet figured out a way to do it while still collecting membership fees from them.

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#16
Nanaboy
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Until they get that update where they ban them, and then sell the account back to the owner I don't see them doing anything else...

#17
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1. I think the whole buy-back thing was a hoax in an attempt to catch botters on their old accounts making claims for their new accounts (the system was just [developmentally delayed]ed, and I haven't heard of hardly anyone being able to buy back their banned accounts)

2. Bots use client injection because they can. If Jagex started banning all injection, 100%, then bot clients would simply use reflection. It wouldn't be as versatile, but it would work just fine.

When you create a point in click game that is based on repetition, then you are going to run into a botting problem. It's just how things are, it's not the worst thing in the world (like so many on this forum make it out to be) and it's definitely not worth ruining the game for (like Jagex has tried in the past).

With that said, there probably needs to be something done about the bots that are a little out of control (sorce garden, frost dragons, etc). Surely Jagex could hire 3-5 interns and let them go to town on fixing this problem...
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Surely Jagex could hire 3-5 interns and let them go to town on fixing this problem...


Finally someone who thinks like I do... Seems like the cheapest and most effective way of removing bots...

That or personally I'd spend 4-5 hours a week bot-banning in exchange for free membership, wouldn't be hard to implement either imo. Put a system in place that for x amounts of bans (including of course a successful ban to a misreport ratio) gets free membership for a month. I'm sure they'd have more people offering to help then they could handle.

#19
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Running with the idea of a captcha, it would exponentially increase the difficulty of scanning and interpreting the captcha if the letter each moved and rotated (along the y or z axis for example) in a word. I've worked with a prof at my university with that sort of software (computational linguistics stuff - getting computers to understand written language) and at the research level it's still tough to get a program to have even a 40% success rate, much less be even close with the interpretation. And it wouldn't even have to be that bad, just anytime you're leaving a random event you have to do one of those captchas. Your time has already been intruded upon by the random, so what's an extra 5 seconds going to be for the honest user?

It's frustrating to see (what appears to be) such a one-dimensional approach taken by jamflex when there's an entire world of possibilities that they haven't tapped yet because they're too busy pushing out updates that have the shoddiest bug and stress testing this side of the galactic plane
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#20
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You're assuming Jagex wants to end the bot problem.

I'm sure they do, but they haven't yet figured out a way to do it while still collecting membership fees from them.


This, now /endthread.

The new money loving Jagex won't remove bots if it means less money, end of story. It's clear they don't give two [cabbage]s about the quality of the game, as long as they are getting paid. Sad really.
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