15-Nov-2011 - Breaking Dicing

[Guest TrixStar]

[hide=Quote Tree]

As a rank in Mew2, I will say that we are already back in business. We have a new game to compete with Liked, Win All Day, theMilk, etc.

 

Ours is BBG x2. It is Blue, Black, Green = 2x payout. Other colors are loss for bettor. Almost the same as 60x2.

 

I know all the stuff about scammers, but we push for bettors to bet only on Ranks because no rank in Mew2 has ever scammed and all ranks are insured up to 2B.

 

Not advertising, just saying that there are legit clans out there and you shouldn't automatically get labeled "Scammer" for being a Dicer Skullballer.

 

~Rub one out and hope for the best~

 

peace,

Vann

 

P.S. Update was fun for us trying to figure out what to do, but while we were waiting I went +450M from owning ranks in another trusted cc who were dumb enough to host yes/no x2. Super easy to double. Me and 2 other Mew2 ranks won 1.5b off of them total.

What do you use for BBG?

 

Mithril Seeds

Don't they have more colors than that?

[/hide]

 

We use Skullball on Colours. There are 8 colors so it is 3/8 which is 62.5x2. Best we could come up with on short notice. but it is taking off.

 

peace,

Vann

 

or you could make it 4 colors and take the same risk as the person betting

[Robert_R]

[hide=Quote Tree]

As a rank in Mew2, I will say that we are already back in business. We have a new game to compete with Liked, Win All Day, theMilk, etc.

 

Ours is BBG x2. It is Blue, Black, Green = 2x payout. Other colors are loss for bettor. Almost the same as 60x2.

 

I know all the stuff about scammers, but we push for bettors to bet only on Ranks because no rank in Mew2 has ever scammed and all ranks are insured up to 2B.

 

Not advertising, just saying that there are legit clans out there and you shouldn't automatically get labeled "Scammer" for being a Dicer Skullballer.

 

~Rub one out and hope for the best~

 

peace,

Vann

 

P.S. Update was fun for us trying to figure out what to do, but while we were waiting I went +450M from owning ranks in another trusted cc who were dumb enough to host yes/no x2. Super easy to double. Me and 2 other Mew2 ranks won 1.5b off of them total.

What do you use for BBG?

 

Mithril Seeds

Don't they have more colors than that?

[/hide]

 

We use Skullball on Colours. There are 8 colors so it is 3/8 which is 62.5x2. Best we could come up with on short notice. but it is taking off.

 

peace,

Vann

 

or you could make it 4 colors and take the same risk as the person betting

That would be just as useless and doing yes/no on skullball. The entire purpose of hosting is to make the odds in your favor so you always end with a profit.

[NukeMarine]

Ok, I'll put my feeling aside about Jagex's weasly comments in regards to gambling and how Jagex just does not allow that :roll:

 

If I read correctly, there are actual UK laws that prohibit virtual forms of gambling in products aimed at children. Yes, it was passed in over reaction to some pokemon game or some sort, but it's a law none-the-less and applies very much so to Jagex. As such, I can see they cannot come out and say they do offer actual venues for gambling (Rat Pits, Conquest, Duel Arena).

 

The thing is, if they're honest about ridding these non venue games of chance, they have to remove items that generate random results in convenient locations.

 

First method: treat these random number generators differently in friend chat. In order for a friend to see the roll, they had to have been your friend for at least 1 week. That right there removes 99% of the current dicers. I don't know if this is feasible, but it at least keeps the items in the game for their intended purpose.

 

Second method: remove or blank out randomly generated items or images (flowers, seals, paths taken by clockwork pets, random emotes, poison/heal chance foods, etc.). Jagex knows which items are being used, so it's a minor change. Flowers for example appear white until picked.

[The Dark Lord]

Can't stop betting, there will always be alternatives. I wonder how much content Jagex is willing to remove to stop dicing, or they could just stop appeasing idiots who don't understand the concept of chance.

 

I agree.

 

Jagex is babying people too much.

[L2Pullout]

There are 8 colors so it is 3/8 which is 62.5x2.

lol @ idiots betting with these odds.

[Sir_Squab]

There are 8 colors so it is 3/8 which is 62.5x2.

lol @ idiots betting with these odds.

 

Lol @ anyone dicing who wasn't hosting...?

[L2Pullout]

There are 8 colors so it is 3/8 which is 62.5x2.

lol @ idiots betting with these odds.

 

Lol @ anyone dicing who wasn't hosting...?

Truth. Must be someone doing it tho lol.

[Utopia]

Why not regulate this so scams can't happen? Wouldn't that more effectively reduce scamming?

[Tim]

about [bleep]ing time!

 

 

@Nuke, obviously you're a dicer so let me break it down to you: Duel arena etc: It's always a 50/50 Chance, It's based on your ACTUAL SKILLS, not someone scamming with a dice in which you only have a 40% chance, you're using the weapons, armour and skills you raised for the purpose of this game, DICE HAVE NO SKILL OR GAME VALUE AT ALL.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Ezkaton
Edited out flame.

[Troacctid]

BTW, as any Magic: The Gathering player will tell you, the correct term is GUB, not BBG. :ugeek:

[Bxpprod]

TRADE LIMITS WILL SAVE US

 

No seriously, they will.

 

Idiots gunna gamble. Simple as that. And I'm all for the exploitation of stupidity.

[NukeMarine]

about [bleep]ing time!

 

 

@Nuke, obviously you're a dicer so let me break it down to you: Duel arena etc: It's always a 50/50 Chance, It's based on your ACTUAL SKILLS, not someone scamming with a dice in which you only have a 40% chance, you're using the weapons, armour and skills you raised for the purpose of this game, DICE HAVE NO SKILL OR GAME VALUE AT ALL.

 

Really, duel arena is 50/50? Fascinating. Tell you what...make a character that's 40 in all combat stats. I'll make one that's low def, high atk/str but at the same combat level (basically at least 70 str/atk). I'll also only accept wager when the rules allow for no food, pots, mage, range, armor or shields. Basically, nothing but melee 1h weapons. Oh, and I have a abyssal whip.

 

Now, in this 50/50 match, how many matches out of 100 will you win again? No, seriously try to answer 50 and not to be laughed at by anyone in this forum.

 

By the way, virtual numbers of a virtual character, even if they're termed 'skills' does not a game of skills make. Java is still a pseudo-random number generater so it's still about chance. However, you can skew those chances in your favor if you know the system. That's no more skill that saying "55x2", no matter how you try to skew it.

[Deletion]

about [bleep]ing time!

 

 

@Nuke, obviously you're a dicer so let me break it down to you: Duel arena etc: It's always a 50/50 Chance, It's based on your ACTUAL SKILLS, not someone scamming with a dice in which you only have a 40% chance, you're using the weapons, armour and skills you raised for the purpose of this game, DICE HAVE NO SKILL OR GAME VALUE AT ALL.

 

 

Really, duel arena is 50/50? Fascinating. Tell you what...make a character that's 40 in all combat stats. I'll make one that's low def, high atk/str but at the same combat level (basically at least 70 str/atk). I'll also only accept wager when the rules allow for no food, pots, mage, range, armor or shields. Basically, nothing but melee 1h weapons. Oh, and I have a abyssal whip.

 

Now, in this 50/50 match, how many matches out of 100 will you win again? No, seriously try to answer 50 and not to be laughed at by anyone in this forum.

 

By the way, virtual numbers of a virtual character, even if they're termed 'skills' does not a game of skills make. Java is still a pseudo-random number generater so it's still about chance. However, you can skew those chances in your favor if you know the system. That's no more skill that saying "55x2", no matter how you try to skew it.

 

 

I think that's the point. By dueling you are using gameplay to your advantage, which requires skill and skills, rather than just dumb-luck. Yes it is still gambling, of sorts, but as Jagex said, it involves gameplay and skill, skills and tactics.

 

We're all sorry that you lost your form of income, but good riddance.

 

If I'm honest they probably removed it due to the amount of scamming, spamming, etc that it caused rather than because it is a form of gambling.

[Amonitas]

Dueling is a wager match. Not gambling. If I challenge you do a fist fight to death on a bridge, it's not 50-50 either.

Anyways, at least I ended up profiting from dicing. Only tried it once and won 500k xD

[NukeMarine]

Dueling is a wager match. Not gambling. If I challenge you do a fist fight to death on a bridge, it's not 50-50 either.

Anyways, at least I ended up profiting from dicing. Only tried it once and won 500k xD

Seriously, grab a dictionary, look up gambling, then come back here. Even the stock market, no matter how well you study the ins and outs of it, is still gambling. Giving it a softer term like "investing" does not remove the risk aspect. Same goes when you "wager" on sporting events. Doesn't matter how well you know the stats of the teams. The most you do is mitigate the risk, not remove it. Yet, it's still called gambling all the same.

 

If you can't understand a simple concept like gambling, it's best you remove yourself from the conversation.

[Toad]

Update doesn't effect me in the slightest, they'll find alternative methods if they wish to (even outside skullballs).

[Bxpprod]

Just take money out of Runescape.

And items.

 

No more scamming

[Toad]

Just take money out of Runescape.

And items.

 

No more scamming

 

I completely agree.

[Bxpprod]

And because my posts are prone to disappearing, here's why:-

Whilst trading and items remain, there will be a way for people to scam, and stupid people to be scammed. At the end of the day, if you are going to baby people and try to prevent them being 'scammed' (exploitation of stupidity reppin'), go the whole way.

[Assume Nothing]

There's a lot of misconceptions about dicing.

 

The removal of dices itself is effectively prohibition, and it's effectiveness will be very minimal if not completely null/counterproductive - the very concept of slightly favourable odds towards the host (the incentive of hosting) to allow betters to double their wager will not disappear, since it's emergent game-play. In fact, I'd argue that it would raise scamming rates as the incentive to be legitimate has gone - with the skullball's 'Yes/No' system, there's no long-term benefit for the host, so the 'cost' of scamming won't even exist - it'll be the rational thing to do, despite moral qualms.

 

A more effective 'solution' would be to inform users about the odds of winning, and the psychological addiction that comes along with gambling. Scams do and will always occur - that's for sure, but it's far easier to regulate within a trusted establishment - it's all about the incentive.

[Singh]

Honestly, this isn't going to affect me in RS, but I do think its about they go rid of it. It was honestly just getting annoying too see players win 100m+ with a dice role, while I'm out monster hunting/slayer and cant make the same cash.

[Assume Nothing]

It's an acknowledged risk - the same risk applies to losing 100m too. The only thing that'll change would be the fact that people won't use dices anymore, they'd switch to skulls.

 

Emergent gameplay can't be killed this easily. A real solution would be to regulate it, or provide information to consumers.

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

Jagex should not fix gambling, they should just fix gamblers.

But that is not going to happen.

[Assume Nothing]

That's exactly my point. I'd say it's more likely that this effort is in fact counterproductive for their cause.

[Randox]

What I would have liked to see, is essentially a casino. The gambling isn't going to go away, so the easiest thing to do would have been to just make an npc that essentially hosts 55x2 (the most common stakes that I saw). Since its an npc, it wont scam people, and since it wont scam people, it would be more appealing than the dice hosts (and probably faster), which would have at least had a chance of killing it off.

 

You can't beat gambling, and by not even making it against the rules its like they aren't even trying, but if it is just the scamming they object to, and not the activity itself (though I suspect it might be both), the best thing they could have done would be to make a safer, more appealing alternative.

 

 

This will probably make things worse as pointed out. Most of the alternatives are either really unfavourable odds (such as 2:1 for the dunge emote), or 50/50. The 2:1 stuff might fly if the right payouts are used, but anyone hosting at 50/50 stakes is going to scam sooner or later, or they aren't going to make any money in the long run. I figure once this becomes totally fubar, Jagex might actually start taking productive attempts to solving the problem.