15-Nov-2011 - Breaking Dicing

[NukeMarine]

Wait, what was their reasoning for removal of dicing? I understand why they would want to remove the associated scamming, but legitimate hosting doesn't harm anybody - why remove it?

To be fair, since there were so many legitimate clans it allowed for easy scamming. It was mainly legit because the house was with the players which meant if you hosted you won in the long run.

 

The problems were, like always, legit with respect to spam and scam and illegit like most of the 12 year old arguments on the RSOF (children's game, illegal in real life, odds not in favor of the other player, etc.). Still, to stop the problems you also stopped those that weren't the problem.

[BiJay]

Jagex said it didn't support gambling, yet actually designed the mechanisms with the Duel Arena, Cat Arena and Conquest.

There's no real gambling in the Duel Arena or in Conquest (wtf is Cat Arena?). Do you even know what gambling is?

 

Jagex claimed that gambling was a negative activity, yet has enormous amounts of negative activity in the game and not just actions against NPCs (Wilderness is just one big area to screw over another real player).

Huh, which kind of "negative activity" do you mean? I don't understand.

 

Basically, they're spouting BS with their reasons for removing Dice. Now, there are legit reasons: Ease of scamming (though more profitable if you didn't), and loads of spamming. As such, just disable ability to dice over chat. However, don't claim this activity is some how much lower than scamming another kid into the dangerous portal at the clan duel.

Yeah, they could remove the dice over chat instead. But where do they claim dicing is somehow "lower" or "higher" than any other scamming method?

[Bxpprod]

So much rage on forums.

 

So little time to kick back and enjoy. :thumbsup:

[Askthedude]

Back to the flower games it is then I guess. People who want to make money from over the top odds in their favour will find other ways to gamble.

[NukeMarine]

Are you doing this on purpose? You seriously can't follow this line of thought? Ok, I'll try to be clearer.

Jagex said it didn't support gambling, yet actually designed the mechanisms with the Duel Arena, Cat Arena and Conquest.

There's no real gambling in the Duel Arena or in Conquest (wtf is Cat Arena?). Do you even know what gambling is?

Do I seriously need to copy and paste a definition of gambling here? Wikipedia on Gambling. Note it involves wagering item of inherent value (gp or items in RS) and event of uncertain outcome (are you 100% POSITIVE you'll win Duel Arena?).

 

Jagex claimed that gambling was a negative activity, yet has enormous amounts of negative activity in the game and not just actions against NPCs (Wilderness is just one big area to screw over another real player).

Huh, which kind of "negative activity" do you mean? I don't understand.

In the real world, killing another person is considered a negative activity. Now, Jagex is claiming something (gambling) in its fantasy world which allows murder, theft, arson and other unsavory acts is not actually not a good thing to do in a fantasy world. They have some merit when we're talking about activities that affect other players, but they still allow the wilderness which allows people to kill me when I don't want them to.

 

Basically, their current argument does not mesh with the reality they themselves have ultimate control over.

 

Basically, they're spouting BS with their reasons for removing Dice. Now, there are legit reasons: Ease of scamming (though more profitable if you didn't), and loads of spamming. As such, just disable ability to dice over chat. However, don't claim this activity is some how much lower than scamming another kid into the dangerous portal at the clan duel.

Yeah, they could remove the dice over chat instead. But where do they claim dicing is somehow "lower" or "higher" than any other scamming method?

Well, go to the Duel Arena. If you're still able to wager on an uncertain outcome then I'd say they put that in the higher category.

[Octarine]

The difference between duel arena and dicing is that (even with boxing) you are able to influence the outcome of your duel to some extent. Dicing just boils it down to odds AND the host always has the advantage, which is worse. Comparatively.

[Robert_R]

People seem to think hosts will move on the skullball but to me that doesn't make any sense because it's a 50/50 chance for the host and gambler.

[Quyneax]

The difference between duel arena and dicing is that (even with boxing) you are able to influence the outcome of your duel to some extent. Dicing just boils it down to odds AND the host always has the advantage, which is worse. Comparatively.

This. I know the w/l ratio in the Duel Arena for regular boxing can be as bad as 50.1/49.9, but that's still better than 45/55, and it depends on your style switching, which means you can determine the .2% difference that is a profit instead of a loss. For things like armour on staking, it's more dependant on strategy.

 

I can't say I'm sorry to see dicing go. Good update :).

[BiJay]

Do I seriously need to copy and paste a definition of gambling here? Wikipedia on Gambling. Note it involves wagering item of inherent value (gp or items in RS) and event of uncertain outcome (are you 100% POSITIVE you'll win Duel Arena?).

Duel Arena mostly involves skill and equipment. It's true boxing reduces this to a minimum and can be considered gambling but that's not the main intention of Duel Arena. Just because there are some random numbers involved doesn't make it mostly a gamble. RuneScape is more of a strategic game than a gambling game.

 

In the real world, killing another person is considered a negative activity. Now, Jagex is claiming something (gambling) in its fantasy world which allows murder, theft, arson and other unsavory acts is not actually not a good thing to do in a fantasy world. They have some merit when we're talking about activities that affect other players, but they still allow the wilderness which allows people to kill me when I don't want them to.

 

Basically, their current argument does not mesh with the reality they themselves have ultimate control over.

OK, I see where are you refering to. Maybe they think gambling doesn't fit in their game (game isn't real life).

 

Well, go to the Duel Arena. If you're still able to wager on an uncertain outcome then I'd say they put that in the higher category.

Huh, I thought we were talking about scamming here.

[Sly_Wizard]

I'm not so sure what people's problem with dicing was.

[NukeMarine]

The difference between duel arena and dicing is that (even with boxing) you are able to influence the outcome of your duel to some extent. Dicing just boils it down to odds AND the host always has the advantage, which is worse. Comparatively.

This. I know the w/l ratio in the Duel Arena for regular boxing can be as bad as 50.1/49.9, but that's still better than 45/55, and it depends on your style switching, which means you can determine the .2% difference that is a profit instead of a loss. For things like armour on staking, it's more dependant on strategy.

 

I can't say I'm sorry to see dicing go. Good update :).

Nope, still gambling. Unless you claim to impact the results to a 100% guarenteed outcome. Usually that's due to a bug exploit or some other scam thanks to Jagex's amazing game mechanic at the Duel Arena.

 

Let's take that one step further, you're at the duel arena with your 0.2% advantage thanks to your leet skills. However, your opponent holds your cash and promises to give you double if you win the fight. Don't try to bring the odds into it. It could have easily been 50/50 coin flip and the problem of having to depend on trust trading would remain.

 

I'll say again, it was Jagex's BS line about them not being for gambling that got me miffed. If they just left it at "we're doing this to reduce spam and a common avenue for scamming despite the legit uses of this game item" I'd have little complaint, heck I'd have cheered them. Instead, they were hypocrites on this and in a blatant way at that.

[Rotterdam]

Glad to see dicing go, it's mostly scamming, apart from a few people who actually host legit games. Odd's are in the host's favour anyway.

[FIREWORKS]

Fantastic! Now they need to do something about flower game. I'm generally against gambling in RS, but staking in duel arena shouldn't be removed in my opinion.

[Piu]

-snip-

 

Nope, still gambling. Unless you claim to impact the results to a 100% guarenteed outcome. Usually that's due to a bug exploit or some other scam thanks to Jagex's amazing game mechanic at the Duel Arena.

 

-snip-

 

It’s never supported by JAGEX unless it’s about gameplay (like the duel arena).

 

Like they said' date=' gambling isn't supported [b']unless it's about gameplay[/b], e.g. Duel Arena, Cat Arena/Pit w/e it's called. And there's little to no gameplay involved when dicing.

[Frede173]

Awesome :thumbup: Now they just need to remove skull balls.

[Saradomin_Mage]

The difference between duel arena and dicing is that (even with boxing) you are able to influence the outcome of your duel to some extent. Dicing just boils it down to odds AND the host always has the advantage, which is worse. Comparatively.

This. I know the w/l ratio in the Duel Arena for regular boxing can be as bad as 50.1/49.9, but that's still better than 45/55, and it depends on your style switching, which means you can determine the .2% difference that is a profit instead of a loss. For things like armour on staking, it's more dependant on strategy.

 

I can't say I'm sorry to see dicing go. Good update :).

Nope, still gambling. Unless you claim to impact the results to a 100% guarenteed outcome. Usually that's due to a bug exploit or some other scam thanks to Jagex's amazing game mechanic at the Duel Arena.

 

Let's take that one step further, you're at the duel arena with your 0.2% advantage thanks to your leet skills. However, your opponent holds your cash and promises to give you double if you win the fight. Don't try to bring the odds into it. It could have easily been 50/50 coin flip and the problem of having to depend on trust trading would remain.

 

I'll say again, it was Jagex's BS line about them not being for gambling that got me miffed. If they just left it at "we're doing this to reduce spam and a common avenue for scamming despite the legit uses of this game item" I'd have little complaint, heck I'd have cheered them. Instead, they were hypocrites on this and in a blatant way at that.

So, your beef right now is more of because they gave a lame excuse to remove dicing and the inherent requirement for trust trading in dicing?

[Crossed_Body]

So, your beef right now is more of because they gave a lame excuse to remove dicing and the inherent requirement for trust trading in dicing?

It just so happens to be what I am upset about too. I hate lame excuses more than... most things jagex does.

[Arcley]

Easily the best update since the bot nuke. No respect for anyone who did this, scammer or not. The so called "legit" dicing clans were just pyramid schemes.

 

I wonder why is it that the RS community makes such a big deal of gambling anyway. It's not a problem in other MMOs I've played. Lack of mods? They should have a lot more time to handle scammers now that the bot number is down...

[NukeMarine]

So, your beef right now is more of because they gave a lame excuse to remove dicing and the inherent requirement for trust trading in dicing?

 

Yeah, pretty much. It was a problem. There was loads of spam even after the fix. There was scamming thanks to trust trading being allowed back in the game via free trade (Jagex fixed that problem three years and re-introduced it for profit reasons). There was a deeper problem in that it was such a great tool at generating GP that it became a source of RWT gp.

 

If I took what they said seriously in that post, then I'm naive enough to expect them to remove original Holiday Items since these things are now being exploited not only as trading items but also revenue generators thanks to the loan system. Yet, they still remain after nearly a decade. Funny that. No, Jagex is just being a hypocrite with respect to given reasons for removing dicing. They're being realistic with respect to rares (that's an aspect beyond any method of repair).

[hatebringer]

Anyone think the flower game is gonna come back again ? :(

 

but honestly thankyou for removing this finally. thats one less reason for me to try and gable to riches lol +scammers are sad which is a win win

[Thus]

So, your beef right now is more of because they gave a lame excuse to remove dicing and the inherent requirement for trust trading in dicing?

(Wall of text removed for this main point)

No, Jagex is just being a hypocrite with respect to given reasons for removing dicing.

 

Does this really matter? They removed something that was really hurting the game. Why must people like you try to find one little detail or inconsistency and pick at it? Live and let live.

[NukeMarine]

So, your beef right now is more of because they gave a lame excuse to remove dicing and the inherent requirement for trust trading in dicing?

(Wall of text removed for this main point)

No, Jagex is just being a hypocrite with respect to given reasons for removing dicing.

 

Does this really matter? They removed something that was really hurting the game. Why must people like you try to find one little detail or inconsistency and pick at it? Live and let live.

If someone is honest with you about the reasons for a difficult decision, you're liable to back them up even if you're overall against it. Actually, I don't have to go into detail about free trade removal and how I backed that decision. I can just say I like Jagex better when they're honest with the players. Here, they were not even if the result of their actions were a net positive.

 

Call me crazy for backing honesty.

[Vann]

As a Ranked host in a legitimate Dicing Skullball clan. I don't like seeing it go.

 

Anyways. Onto "color x6". Skullball style.

 

Flowers are back up if skullballs get owned.

 

peace,

Vann

[Quyneax]

If you say something is gambling just because it's not 100% certain you could remove all pvp... the point is that in dicing there was absolutely no way to bend the odds in your favour, ignoring the problems with scamming etc. which Jagex cites as a reason.

[Krampell]

About freaking time.