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JAGEX LIMITED v.IMPULSE SOFTWARE, ERIC SNELLMAN, and MARK SNELLMAN


Mercifull

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So, for all anyone knows anything or nothing could have been said. For all you know the Jagex team couldve threatened him with the same legal action that seems to have worked here and he told you otherwise.

That's completely possible. I'm simply going by what I know and my experience that it really shuold have worked. They very well may have threatened/baited him and he caved in - we'll never know.

 

A little OT, instead of using your time to hack games why not be more creative and make them? After all its much easier to break something than to create it, or is that the idea?

I spent years on a game that was around 10 years... Not that I was on the team that entire time. I helped develop and maintain a game called Wulfram and WulframII by BoltAction and Bent Habermier.

 

Why not just tell Jagex about your ideas? :V

For the non-Java ideas, I have evidence, not just ideas. These, Jagex could not fix and my information couldn't help them. It's simply way of using and manipulating Windows in a way that allows you to interact/monitor an inactive/'not viewable' game applet - possible to run more then one at a time... Even through the Jagex client. The only way for them to find and detect this method, they'd have to use software such as PunkBuster or Hackshield... Which is very easily bypassed anyways.

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This is truly incredible. If they were able to win this clearly against them, it could mean that they're able to stop other bot developers through legal means as well :thumbsup:

 

I would never have imagined that they would be able to win such a case. Huge damn congratz to Jagex :D

 

It's very dependant on how the bot functions - it's much more difficult to take down colourbots on legal grounds.

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Powerbot is still suseptable to legal action due to the methods it uses to interact with the game. Jagex also won a case against them for trademark infringement (rsbot). They have yet to file against them in the same manner as they did with iBot. Being open-source is no immunity from a lawsuit (Oracle vs Android). I think it's just a matter of time now, after the successful case, that they will go after the bot developers and scripters of powerbot.

 

Colour bots, while not actually touching and of the Runescape code could still fall foul on the following:

-tortious interference with contract

-contributory copyright infringement

-trademark infringement (if it mentioned 'RuneScape' or 'Jagex' anywhere. There are also prior court cases now that might even prevent them using 'RS')

-circumvention of technological measures under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (could be argued that anything designed to evade random events could infringe but this is a bit tenuous)

-unfair competition

-unjust enrichment (not limited to directly selling the bot to players but also advertising income, membership fees etc)

 

Some of these are things Blizzard fought and won against WoW Glider a few years ago, some of them of relevance in the Jagex vs ImpSoft case.

 

A bot developer would also have to be careful they dont infringe copyright on other people's code too. You cant just pluck any old open-source code such as a mouse controller and put it in your own software and go on to sell it.

 

I'm a far cry from a legal expert on these things and I'm not going to argue with anyone that DOES claim to be an expert but I believe that it's just too risky to invest any time/effort/money in developing an advanced colour bot which is even half as effective as the reflection/injection bots were. Anyone trying to develop a bot is also unlikely to get any help or advice whatsoever from the Snellman bros. or else they are liable for a $1,000,000 fine or from the RSBuddy team.

 

Any sensible bot developer will have abandoned Runescape and will have moved on to another game.

 

Jagex relased an update (clusterflutterer) that they KNEW would cull 60% of their players, the other 2% (colour bot users) are small fry. Jagex are coming for you...

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Mercifull <3 Suzi

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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Powerbot is still suseptable to legal action due to the methods it uses to interact with the game. Jagex also won a case against them for trademark infringement (rsbot). They have yet to file against them in the same manner as they did with iBot. Being open-source is no immunity from a lawsuit (Oracle vs Android). I think it's just a matter of time now, after the successful case, that they will go after the bot developers and scripters of powerbot.

 

Colour bots, while not actually touching and of the Runescape code could still fall foul on the following:

-tortious interference with contract

-contributory copyright infringement

-trademark infringement (if it mentioned 'RuneScape' or 'Jagex' anywhere. There are also prior court cases now that might even prevent them using 'RS')

-circumvention of technological measures under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (could be argued that anything designed to evade random events could infringe but this is a bit tenuous)

-unfair competition

-unjust enrichment (not limited to directly selling the bot to players but also advertising income, membership fees etc)

 

Some of these are things Blizzard fought and won against WoW Glider a few years ago, some of them of relevance in the Jagex vs ImpSoft case.

 

A bot developer would also have to be careful they dont infringe copyright on other people's code too. You cant just pluck any old open-source code such as a mouse controller and put it in your own software and go on to sell it.

 

I'm a far cry from a legal expert on these things and I'm not going to argue with anyone that DOES claim to be an expert but I believe that it's just too risky to invest any time/effort/money in developing an advanced colour bot which is even half as effective as the reflection/injection bots were. Anyone trying to develop a bot is also unlikely to get any help or advice whatsoever from the Snellman bros. or else they are liable for a $1,000,000 fine or from the RSBuddy team.

 

Any sensible bot developer will have abandoned Runescape and will have moved on to another game.

 

Jagex relased an update (clusterflutterer) that they KNEW would cull 60% of their players, the other 2% (colour bot users) are small fry. Jagex are coming for you...

 

Subject, of course, to any counter-claims and/or pending appeals :unsure:

 

That said, let Notice be served that the precedent has now been put in place not only for Jagex but for pretty much EVERY video gaming operation out there such that, the companies which own the games now have the legal recourse to go after those individuals/corporations that tamper with their games, in order to adversely affect the game itself and/or make personal profit therefrom.

 

The net effect of all this is, simply this: BEWARE! If youre going to tamper with a video game in any way whatsoever, be prepared to have that games developer/owner come after you with pitchforks, torches and a rope

 

:lol:

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Remember when the botters were all screaming "oh yea well Jagex are law breaking law breakers and we're gonna sue them for this frivolous lawsuit and then take their game." Oh to see the looks on their faces now.

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Remember when the botters were all screaming "oh yea well Jagex are law breaking law breakers and we're gonna sue them for this frivolous lawsuit and then take their game." Oh to see the looks on their faces now.

 

It's right up there in the book of "facts" botters and bot devs say like

1) It's 100% legal

2) Jagex can't ban you for using it.

And, my personal favourite

3) Don't worry we will have a working version up again in/by/on x (as seen frequently in October, November, December and January; usually surfacing with 24 hours of the value of x on the previous outting)

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Like I said, Jagex knew the exact method behind injection reflection for so long and it took them years to bust them. What makes you think they'd have already broken the method he used? I'm not sure if they've already got a system to prevent it... I've not discussed it with him since about 2 weeks afterward.

 

Do you have any evidence of this regarding Jac because the last time I asked no-one could actually provide any. Rumour is one thing, fact is another. What proof do you have of this?

 

Jac had two weeks and was able to find a method which worked. These people have endless amounts of time to create and come up with different methods. Even 'screen-scraping'/pattern recognition can get very advanced. You can still run multiple clients on one machine using scraping. Resource usage would equal, or be only very slightly higher, then the previous Java clients.

 

Just like anything else in computing someone could easily devise a system to try to avoid detection. However its never undetectable. The minute someone comes out with something, a solution can be devised no matter how long it takes. Were you in the same batch that said these bots could never be stopped the last time?

 

 

Physical proof, none. I spoke to him, we exchanged a lot of thoughts and I'm not one to screeny each one of my conversations. From a coders perspective, what we spoke about should have worked. I never asked to try or even see the result as I've not been in that department for years, although I'm more then certain it would have. I was not for or against bots, as they really don't bother or affect me. I simply share my ideas, knowledge, and experience and let those who'll listen benefit from it. :P.

 

I've spent more of my time writing hacks for FPSs like Battlefield, WarRock, CA, etc, then I have spent playing RuneScape, but when ever they updated and were able to detect our hack we had a new one out and working within minutes. I know, a different area, different language, yadda yadda... But it took Jagex over 9 years to finally break 2 methods.

 

I was one that doubted they'd be able to break injection/reflection, yes. I didn't expect an update as large as they did; no one did. Mind you, the way they implemented it was terrible; laggy game play, slow to play, etc. However, I've known of other ways for bot clients to work for quite some time (knowledge isn't bannable), just lacked interest to pursue or spread them. They will take off in time, once other people grasp them, but until then enjoy RuneScape while you can still cut your yews and kill your avansies. Not a threat, I'm simply confident they'll return.

 

" but until then enjoy RuneScape while you can still cut your yews and kill your avansies. Not a threat, I'm simply confident they'll return."

 

Been to green dragons recently? or avianses? botttsss are back, in numbers. every world, they are at all green drag spots, and, last i saw, avianse bots were pile-hammering the last of armadyl's favorite race. Bots are back >.<

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Odd that they seem to be back in P2P but not F2P. I haven't seen any since the nuke.

 

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THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P.

So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually...

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Odd that they seem to be back in P2P but not F2P. I haven't seen any since the nuke.

 

I'm with Kaida on this... If they are back, it isn't nearly as bad as before (yet). I haven't seen too many.. Though there are lots of bot-like players at some popular locations. It is still possible they're real people gold-farming... (unlikely, true)

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Maxed since Sunday, January 9th, 2014
Completionist since Wednesday, June 4th, 2014

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Don't mistake bots with nolifers and chinese sweatshop workers.

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Mercifull <3 Suzi

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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Don't mistake bots with nolifers and chinese sweatshop workers.

5-10 people running round in the traditional bot outfit: ask if they are bots, no response. they also loot the baby dragon bones i am taking, and all stop atting certain dragons every now and then. They are definetly back, and if mroe proof is needed, look at d bone prices.

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"traditional bot gear" is just welfare gear for noobs not explicitly for bots.

I rarely have public on either so I wouldn't respond to you, especially if I was concentrating on killing dragons.

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Mercifull <3 Suzi

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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"traditional bot gear" is just welfare gear for noobs not explicitly for bots.

I rarely have public on either so I wouldn't respond to you, especially if I was concentrating on killing dragons.

 

when i get home later, i'll post on screenshots.

 

but, don't welfarers at least use some form of boots/amulet/gloves/cape?

and don't they have the sense to stop attacking agreen someone else has just barred?

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Ok im not going to deny that there are no bots whatsoever but very often reports for bots are false positives. And lets not forget that all the major gold selling sites also offer powerlevelling. These guys run sweatshops of chinese workers who play the game either on goldfarming characters and xfer the coins or they use your own character

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Mercifull <3 Suzi

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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Ok im not going to deny that there are no bots whatsoever but very often reports for bots are false positives.

 

I report the level 3's that I see at Daemonheim frequently. They always tele to sorceress garden and have names like "hrdcxfws"

 

I'm not exactly sure if that's true about false positives, either.

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Ok im not going to deny that there are no bots whatsoever but very often reports for bots are false positives.

 

I report the level 3's that I see at Daemonheim frequently. They always tele to sorceress garden and have names like "hrdcxfws"

 

I'm not exactly sure if that's true about false positives, either.

 

At dg you can trap the sorcess garden bots.

Clan vex under the banker = they [bleep] up banking.

So they think they did it then check for full invent and do kinship tele again getting stuck in a loop of tele and trying to bank.

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Please let the censor do its job

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Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue

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Ok im not going to deny that there are no bots whatsoever but very often reports for bots are false positives.

 

I report the level 3's that I see at Daemonheim frequently. They always tele to sorceress garden and have names like "hrdcxfws"

 

I'm not exactly sure if that's true about false positives, either.

I doubt its true.

also, i don't understand how anyone would know this.

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Ok im not going to deny that there are no bots whatsoever but very often reports for bots are false positives.

 

I report the level 3's that I see at Daemonheim frequently. They always tele to sorceress garden and have names like "hrdcxfws"

 

I'm not exactly sure if that's true about false positives, either.

I doubt its true.

also, i don't understand how anyone would know this.

There were a bunch of these level 3s on my world yesterday, and they'd keep running to a specific spot on the map before talking to the Fremmenik banker. Additionally, for some reason, they kept teleporting back to Daemonheim instead of the Sorceress' Garden, and repeated their loops for quite a period of time.

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Typical jagex... They could've kept up with cluster flutterer and updated it every month or so to get rid of more bots. But instead they're going to sit and do jack shit until 60% of their online population are bots again. Some reflection bots are definitely back up..and color bots are running rampant.

"we never make money off bots" what a blatant lie.

I would prefer even to fail with honor than to win by cheating - Sophocles

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Typical jagex... They could've kept up with cluster flutterer and updated it every month or so to get rid of more bots. But instead they're going to sit and do jack shit until 60% of their online population are bots again. Some reflection bots are definitely back up..and color bots are running rampant.

"we never make money off bots" what a blatant lie.

 

Uh. So I'm taking it that you never play RS and see how frequently the game is updated, how frequently they're shifting around interfaces, and so on.

 

"Typical naysayer"

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