18-March-2013: Dealing with games of chance

[Saradomin_Mage]

[Fallstar]

The difference between Staking and Rat Pits being that the chances of winning are 50%. It's as likely to make you very rich, very poor or just wind up with as much money as you started.

Flower gambling, however, ran on casino chances; 55:45 or more (often 60:40), guaranteeing profit in the long run.

 

But this isn't actually true. Pidded staking with drygores I have a bigger advantage than I did hosting frosty flowers. There is then the whole host of bugs and other questionable activities that come with staking. DDosing, Xlogging and general bug abuse are prevalent. And I can guarantee you that RWT from staking is both a bigger problem than RWT from dicing/flowers was, and much harder to detect to the point of being impossible to detect if done correctly.

 

For reference, the chance of the host winning with frosty flowers was 59%, based on over 300K flowers.

[Mercifull]

There are still random elements to the game, that are still public and still readily available to players.

 

Wonder how long it'll take for Jagex to change that.

They don't need to disable any other methods. The message has clearly been given that it is NOT wanted and is against the rules. Hell... why not use one of those annoying login popups to explicitly state it. That way there is no excuse for anyone to play the naieve card. Anyone caught doing it now risks instant ban or mute and the punishments now need to come down harsh not only on the hosts but also the players participating. Do so at own risk.

[constrictor]

There are still random elements to the game, that are still public and still readily available to players.

 

Wonder how long it'll take for Jagex to change that.

They don't need to disable any other methods. The message has clearly been given that it is NOT wanted and is against the rules. Hell... why not use one of those annoying login popups to explicitly state it. That way there is no excuse for anyone to play the naieve card. Anyone caught doing it now risks instant ban or mute and the punishments now need to come down harsh not only on the hosts but also the players participating. Do so at own risk.

 

And if they do implement the rules quickly and justly, everything's going to rise in price.

Buy your partyhats, my fellow players!

[sees_all1]

There are still random elements to the game, that are still public and still readily available to players.

 

Wonder how long it'll take for Jagex to change that.

They don't need to disable any other methods. The message has clearly been given that it is NOT wanted and is against the rules. Hell... why not use one of those annoying login popups to explicitly state it. That way there is no excuse for anyone to play the naieve card. Anyone caught doing it now risks instant ban or mute and the punishments now need to come down harsh not only on the hosts but also the players participating. Do so at own risk.

Using that logic, we'd have no troubles with macroing, gold farming, scamming, spamming... Yet the game still evolves to combat each of these. Why should this rule be any different?

[Mercifull]

The difference being that some random things in RuneScape are primarily used legitimately and we should avoid breaking game features unless absolutely neccesary. In contrast there are no legitimate reasons for bots, scamming and spamming.

[Sy_Accursed]

There are still random elements to the game, that are still public and still readily available to players.

 

Wonder how long it'll take for Jagex to change that.

They don't need to disable any other methods. The message has clearly been given that it is NOT wanted and is against the rules. Hell... why not use one of those annoying login popups to explicitly state it. That way there is no excuse for anyone to play the naieve card. Anyone caught doing it now risks instant ban or mute and the punishments now need to come down harsh not only on the hosts but also the players participating. Do so at own risk.

Using that logic, we'd have no troubles with macroing, gold farming, scamming, spamming... Yet the game still evolves to combat each of these. Why should this rule be any different?

Because it is very very easy to spot people running gambling games compared to bots, especially when they rely on specific items or locales that are not widely used in day-to-day scaping. Plus I'd be interested to know what these random things are?

I can't think of any left that have any practicality too them.

[V O R K]

There are plenty, recently Jagex even implented the Coin of Balance; just asking for it... Gambling not true to the historic/medieval setting scape is in? Come again?

 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Hazard_(game)

 

Wiki is wrong though, it predates the English to the Crusading armies copying it from the Islamic countries.

[Sy_Accursed]

There are plenty, recently Jagex even implented the Coin of Balance; just asking for it... Gambling not true to the historic/medieval setting scape is in? Come again?

 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Hazard_(game)

 

But the coin of balance doesn't say anything in public does it? So it's hardly practical.

[Alg]

There are plenty, recently Jagex even implented the Coin of Balance; just asking for it... Gambling not true to the historic/medieval setting scape is in? Come again?

It's not a matter of realism, it's a matter of gameplay.

[V O R K]

How so?

 

I liked the gameplay and I pay as much (if not more) as you do, i'm sorry that the crowd can't handle their losses (I know I lost more then I gained) but that doesn't have to ruin the fun for the rest who likes to wager. It's a matter of freedom of choice (player).

[jayc3399]

How so?

 

I liked the gameplay and I pay as much (if not more) as you do, i'm sorry that the crowd can't handle their losses (I know I lost more then I gained) but that doesn't have to ruin the fun for the rest who likes to wager. It's a matter of freedom of choice (player).

 

Do you ever get tired of lying to yourself? If you want wagers and risk, learn to PvP, in RS that is some of the highest risk stuff you can do.

[Alg]

I liked the gameplay and I pay as much (if not more) as you do, i'm sorry that the crowd can't handle their losses (I know I lost more then I gained) but that doesn't have to ruin the fun for the rest who likes to wager. It's a matter of freedom of choice (player).

It's also a case of one or two loud groups (Dishonest hosts, irresponsible gamblers) bringing in many of the problems that we've been talking about on this and other threads. I could go into detail about how I also think it's a matter of fairness, but I'm not sure if I can argue it well enough in a community that loves to shout 'fallacy' to the point where you can't actually discuss things like normal people.

 

You could probably liken it to the effigy nerf: It's something they had to do but they did it in the worst possible way (namely: after two or three years and without looking at why people did it in the first place). I don't think we'd be arguing nearly as much if they made it against the rules the week after they brought back free trade, rather than beating around the bush until it became a part of the game's culture.

[V O R K]

There are only non-riskers in PvP left. They completely ruined the wilderness; please don't suggest things you barely know anything of. Boxing is slow since the introduction of abilities and ability staking is ridiculous.

 

Lying to myself? About what? I'm completely aware of my actions and acknowledge the fact that I may lose or win. I'm guessing that your emotional snare is probably coming from the train of thought to "help" me but how does belittling me help with this fallacy? Where's your reasoning? Try again.

 

Don't forget my opinion stems from freedom of choice. Not from moral choice.

[Omali]

Don't forget my opinion stems from freedom of choice. Not from moral choice.

 

You have the freedom to choose to follow the rules or be banned.

[V O R K]

Enjoy your black & white box and never forget: be obedient to every authority.

[Mercifull]

[ilovecuttingyews]

I don't care about the whole 'no gambling' thing as much as the social impacts it had on the game. It turned the W7 ge microcommunity I had spent years nurturing into rubble within weeks. If you want to gamble in a dark secluded corner of the internet be my guest, but gambling had destroyed enough of the community that an all out ban makes me very happy to reclaim the W7 ge as a social gathering place, not a gambling hotspot.

[Yoko Kurama]

Enjoy your black & white box and never forget: be obedient to every authority.

 

And as a community, we have the freedom - if not the right - to determine what activities we will allow in our domain and how to shape our collective destiny.

[Ammako]

There are only non-riskers in PvP left.

http://forum.tip.it/topic/163183-post-all-rs-screenshots-videos-and-sounds-here/page__st__79020#entry5380321

[Omali]

Enjoy your black & white box and never forget: be obedient to every authority.

 

Its a video game. You're on private property, you follow the rules of the property owner. It is that black and white.

[Sy_Accursed]

Enjoy your black & white box and never forget: be obedient to every authority.

 

Its a video game. You're on private property, you follow the rules of the property owner. It is that black and white.

 

I feel like he's trying to make some philosophic point about the world not being black and white - it's just a shame it fell short of the mark because he based it off a dodgy premise (the obeying of authority). Because, well, obeying authority (that has genuine power over you in some respect eg service provider, game provider, law, boss etc.) is black and white - you obey or disobey and if the later you face the consequences.

[Fallstar]

Or:

 

It's a video game. If you can't enjoy RS without gambling, then ignore that rule. It is after all just a game. If you get banned, find another game.

[Sangrina]

Or:

 

It's a video game. If you can't enjoy RS without gambling, then ignore that rule. It is after all just a game. If you get banned, find another game.

 

Wouldn't it be faster to just find another game to begin with, where it's not against the rules and there's no risk to get banned for it? If they really can't enjoy RS without gambling as you said.

[Fire_Hawk154]

I think they've made a very weak decision actually. If they were really going to take action against the people who host those gambles, then they wouldn't have to change the easter ring and those other items. They are only making gambling harder, instead of dealing with the people who abuse "fun" items. All they had to do is temp-ban all those hosts for a couple weeks. Once the punishment is big enough for people to reconsider gambling, all the items could just be brought back in the original state. Jagex has chosen the easiest solution, they punish everyone instead of finding out who actually should be punished.