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03-Apr-2013 - Dungeoneering Dual Wielding and Charming Imp

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It doesn't really matter how it's done, but the game should be treating the three types of weapon setups (2H, Dual and Shield) as being equivalent in value, instead of just looking at the number of items involved. Another way would be to have 2H weapons take up two bind slots.

 

Or just remove the binding limit. I understand Jagex wanted people to work together to make stronger armor throughout the dungeon, but that plain doesn't happen. Instead, people are willingly passing up on otherwise good or top tier items because their current binds are good enough or better.

 

Maybe it takes too much memory to have that many binds. I don't know, no one here knows either. But if Jagex wants to refresh DG, they need to change (again) how the binds work as a start. Of course, there are many other things that need changing, but let's just talk about the binds for now.

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Although it's a failure of an update for dungeoneering, you have to feel for them. If you still consider shield as an item that can offer useful properties in combat then it's hard to kind of fix this. But, then again, it was a stupid idea from the start.


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Looking forward to pimping out double mage (best dps class in the game).

No idea why they made a ranger shield.

Sag longbow has that feature equipped with it and it's the best bow which saves you a bind spot making range the tank class.

Melee really needs some love since the EOC shafting, it's dps is much lower than range or magic because you have to run up to everything.

 

 

 

In Other News

  • We've reverted the default behaviour for depositing items in a bank. As before, you will now deposit a single item rather than depositing the entire stack of items. We are investigating a way of making deposit all a toggleable option in the future, however.

The patch notes archive can be seen here.

 

And the slow head crowd whines there way to another victory. Boo.


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Do you actually need 10 slots? Would you really die giving up 1 slot for dual wield if you really wanted it?

 

You've got what:

 

2h + platebody + BN + legs +Sagi short + hex + staff + range body + mage body

 

Thats 9, and for as often as you mage you could easily give up the mage body. Maybe you use it more as you get higher up, I'm not sure only 90 dg, but it seems to me if you wanted to dual wield you could and not suffer to much for it.


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Do you actually need 10 slots? Would you really die giving up 1 slot for dual wield if you really wanted it?

 

You've got what:

 

2h + platebody + BN + legs +Sagi short + hex + staff + range body + mage body

 

Thats 9, and for as often as you mage you could easily give up the mage body. Maybe you use it more as you get higher up, I'm not sure only 90 dg, but it seems to me if you wanted to dual wield you could and not suffer to much for it.

It's not the bank slot everyone is concerned with. When you have 4 active items, you don't want 1 of them to be basically nothing(vs having 2h).


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First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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Do you actually need 10 slots? Would you really die giving up 1 slot for dual wield if you really wanted it?

 

You've got what:

 

2h + platebody + BN + legs +Sagi short + hex + staff + range body + mage body

 

Thats 9, and for as often as you mage you could easily give up the mage body. Maybe you use it more as you get higher up, I'm not sure only 90 dg, but it seems to me if you wanted to dual wield you could and not suffer to much for it.

It's not the bank slot everyone is concerned with. When you have 4 active items, you don't want 1 of them to be basically nothing(vs having 2h).

 

Right now, I have 4 slots open, I use Maul + Bow + Platebody, I should bind legs I just haven't got there since hitting 90 dg, ideally I'd bind a BN but the odds of me seeing one of those before 5 binds is tiny. I've been doing just fine for the last ~20 or so dg levels with just a platebody so I could use that 4th slot for dw if I wanted and not see any difference to my survivability.


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None of that accounts for the fact that you still lose an active bind slot that can be used in many, much more effective ways.


First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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And the slow head crowd whines there way to another victory. Boo.

 

It's a fairly sweeping change that really had no thought put into it. What should have been done is properly implementing context-sensitive clicking.

 

Left-Click? Deposit one like it's always been.

Shift-Click? Deposit all! Yay new feature without disrupting the way it's been forever!

Ctrl-Click? Depost X!? Oh god now we've gone too far can't possibly do stuff like this, this might be considered a good change... ABORT ABORT!!

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None of that accounts for the fact that you still lose an active bind slot that can be used in many, much more effective ways.

Agreed. I'm actually a fan of DW, but it's really not useful if I have to give up a slot for the equivalent of the weapon I already have. I've got plate/hood/weapon/BN, why would I give one of them up for pretty much no reason?

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None of that accounts for the fact that you still lose an active bind slot that can be used in many, much more effective ways.

Agreed. I'm actually a fan of DW, but it's really not useful if I have to give up a slot for the equivalent of the weapon I already have. I've got plate/hood/weapon/BN, why would I give one of them up for pretty much no reason?

And that's even before the consideration that area attacks are usually more useful for dg, rendering 2h abilities more useful.


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First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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In Other News

  • We've reverted the default behaviour for depositing items in a bank. As before, you will now deposit a single item rather than depositing the entire stack of items. We are investigating a way of making deposit all a toggleable option in the future, however.

 

Why didn't they let the people that disliked it wait for a toggleable option? Aw.

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so dual melee fails...

 

any info on dual range? do we get a second ammo bind spot, is it treated as a normal bind, what?


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None of that accounts for the fact that you still lose an active bind slot that can be used in many, much more effective ways.

Agreed. I'm actually a fan of DW, but it's really not useful if I have to give up a slot for the equivalent of the weapon I already have. I've got plate/hood/weapon/BN, why would I give one of them up for pretty much no reason?

And that's even before the consideration that area attacks are usually more useful for dg, rendering 2h abilities more useful.

Ehh, in a world where Jagex didn't make such an obvious mistake with the binds, I would have liked to have seen some tests on that one.


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any info on dual range? do we get a second ammo bind spot, is it treated as a normal bind, what?

Normal bind

 

for both main and off hand? meaning we can still bind tele runes?


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[spoiler=click you know you wanna]
Me behave? Seriously? As a child I saw Tarzan almost naked, Cinderella arrived home from a party after midnight, Pinocchio told lies, Aladin was a thief, Batman drove over 200 miles an hour, Snow White lived in a house with seven men, Popeye smoked a pipe and had tattoos, Pac man ran around to digital music while eating pills that enhanced his performance, and Shaggy and Scooby were mystery solving hippies who always had the munchies. The fault is not mine! if you had this childhood and loved it put this in your signature!

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None of that accounts for the fact that you still lose an active bind slot that can be used in many, much more effective ways.

Agreed. I'm actually a fan of DW, but it's really not useful if I have to give up a slot for the equivalent of the weapon I already have. I've got plate/hood/weapon/BN, why would I give one of them up for pretty much no reason?

I was under the impression that a hood wasn't worth wearing anymore.


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cele staff and wand both have same stats and both count as all ele runes.

 

edit nvm misread cel wand has 99 damage to c staffs 772

 

what drops off hand mage?


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[spoiler=click you know you wanna]
Me behave? Seriously? As a child I saw Tarzan almost naked, Cinderella arrived home from a party after midnight, Pinocchio told lies, Aladin was a thief, Batman drove over 200 miles an hour, Snow White lived in a house with seven men, Popeye smoked a pipe and had tattoos, Pac man ran around to digital music while eating pills that enhanced his performance, and Shaggy and Scooby were mystery solving hippies who always had the munchies. The fault is not mine! if you had this childhood and loved it put this in your signature!

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For anyone wondering how throwing knives compare to a bow and arrows.

 

Assuming 99 range and too lazy to hunt for sag stuff:

 

Grave Creeper short + Promethium Arrows = 1 primary Bind, 1 Ammo bind

Promethium Throwing Knives + Offhand Promethium Throwing Knives = 2 Primary binds

Promethium Throwing Knives = 1 Primary Bind

 

Grave Creeper Short/Prom arrows = 2,080 DPS with 99 range.

Prom main and offhand knives = 2,092 DPS with 99 range.

Prom main knives only = 1,395 DPS with 99 range.

 

 

Also bows were essentially nerfed with this update, as a lot of weaknesses changed from arrows to thrown.


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I'm curious how the melee dual wields hold up against the 2h. (excluding the accuracy from rings/assuming equal rings)

As best as I can see at a glance:

Spear is average, Rapier is fast, Dagger is fastest so assuming they on par there's a fair chance for

Rapiers > Daggers > Spear to be true within stab - assuming the weakness of daggers drop it down a bit in spite of speed

Maul and war hammer are both average so I'd assume maul = war hammers for crush

Then 2h is average, battleaxe is average and long sword is fast in slashing so I'd hazard it being possible that

Long Sword > 2h/Battleaxe

 

But I suck at doing the real math and have yet to manage to smith up some promethium for comparisons.


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Necrolord drops the knives, just got Sagitarrian Chaps and Off-hand Primal Knives!

 

How many? 125?

 

Yeah, oh and there damage is 475!

 

Edit - And of course I get necrolord again and decide to use my offhand knives since I don't have any other long range weapons/spells. And you can't throw them without a mainhand range/mage item :/

 

Edit 2- Off-hand primal knives again. Maybe you get the main hand knives from the Warped Gulega Hope Devourer?

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I'm curious how the melee dual wields hold up against the 2h. (excluding the accuracy from rings/assuming equal rings)

As best as I can see at a glance:

Spear is average, Rapier is fast, Dagger is fastest so assuming they on par there's a fair chance for

Rapiers > Daggers > Spear to be true within stab - assuming the weakness of daggers drop it down a bit in spite of speed

Maul and war hammer are both average so I'd assume maul = war hammers for crush

Then 2h is average, battleaxe is average and long sword is fast in slashing so I'd hazard it being possible that

Long Sword > 2h/Battleaxe

 

But I suck at doing the real math and have yet to manage to smith up some promethium for comparisons.

 

They're almost identical.

 

(Promethium)

Daggers = 2166.75

Rapiers, Longswords = 2161.8

Maul, 2H, spear, war hammers, battle axes = 2159.5


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I'm curious how the melee dual wields hold up against the 2h. (excluding the accuracy from rings/assuming equal rings)

As best as I can see at a glance:

Spear is average, Rapier is fast, Dagger is fastest so assuming they on par there's a fair chance for

Rapiers > Daggers > Spear to be true within stab - assuming the weakness of daggers drop it down a bit in spite of speed

Maul and war hammer are both average so I'd assume maul = war hammers for crush

Then 2h is average, battleaxe is average and long sword is fast in slashing so I'd hazard it being possible that

Long Sword > 2h/Battleaxe

 

But I suck at doing the real math and have yet to manage to smith up some promethium for comparisons.

 

They're almost identical.

 

(Promethium)

Daggers = 2166.75

Rapiers, Longswords = 2161.8

Maul, 2H, spear, war hammers, battle axes = 2159.5

 

So accounting for the bias in favour of slash in monster weaknesses outside of ability related DPS Longswords seem to be the victor, though only by a small margin.


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