Future Update Discussions

[Sy_Accursed]

Jagex talk a big game but the pay off is usual lacking.

 

Our 'lore rich skill' - barely any lore.

Our '2 new skills in 2013' - one is in 2014

Our 'rs3 will have this awesome html5 engine' - html5 left in beta and not expected to be done b4 2014.

 

There is a fundamental issue with choice in story in a game like Runescape: It creates too much work further down the line if it's anything but superficial differences. I mean it's not even that long ago Temple of Ikov and Hazeel Cult choices basically got retconned out.

It's all very well saying a quest will split the story in two - but the reality is the two won;t be that far apart it's too much work to basically write and code two quests for every stage after the split to account for it.

 

Heck even look at our latest choice based quest where regardless of choices he ends up with a corrupted up because they needed that to be so for the future.

[FrankerZ]

I'm pretty sure it's been said in a podcast/Q&A that Zaros would be ressurtected through quest content and the players will decide if he comes back.

 

I'm fairly certain I saw both of those in this topic several pages ago.

[Sy_Accursed]

Interesting on Quin's Horn so we currently have:

 

The Crown Archival - Finds the other artefacts

The Stone of Jas - Precise use not really known, but its the most powerful and lets users do extreme stuff

The Elder Kiln/Tokharr - Build the land

 

As the only ones we know the real names of, but we also know of

 

Skargaroth's/Guthix's Sword - Not clear, but it certainly seems to be able to cut portals between worlds

Staff of Armadyl (which had a gemstone added to it) - Unclear, but implied to have something to do with the spark of life

Quin's Horn - Controls animals seemingly.

[HunterDexter]

Sy, I have to say Jagex' promises aren't quite what they deliver, which is a great shame. However, mod Ana and Hew said toady that they are trying to bring the next skill out this year, which will give more lore. :)

 

About Ikov, yeah, was a real shame. But Hazeel's Cult wasn't retconned I think, Hazeel is only at the Ritual if you revive him, and a few months ago Zemourgal's notes have been changed, they no langer tell that Hazeel is revived if you didn't do that in Hazeel's Cult. :)

[Sy_Accursed]

But various Jmods have said we'll have a quest about Hazeel at some point and that he is certainly alive regardless of your help.

[HunterDexter]

Ooh, I like, I adore Mahjarrat lore! :D

[Calm Koala]

 

 

Sy, I have to say Jagex' promises aren't quite what they deliver, which is a great shame. However, mod Ana and Hew said toady that they are trying to bring the next skill out this year, which will give more lore. :)

 

About Ikov, yeah, was a real shame. But Hazeel's Cult wasn't retconned I think, Hazeel is only at the Ritual if you revive him, and a few months ago Zemourgal's notes have been changed, they no langer tell that Hazeel is revived if you didn't do that in Hazeel's Cult. :)

 

All devs are saying different things

 

Mark says its within a year, osborne says they are "trying" to finish it within 12 months

[HunterDexter]

Yeah, but Ana said it today, so I'm holding on to that. :P Unless they post a new date the coming months. :)

[God Of Lego]

J-Mods need better communication between eachother. Something as big as a skill should be basic knowledge around the office.

[Calm Koala]

Yeah, but Ana said it today, so I'm holding on to that. :P Unless they post a new date the coming months. :)

 

And mod osborne said that at the same time she said it.

 

He was doing a livestream in the same room as ana and at the same time ana was doing the ama :)

[helring]

Yeah, but Ana said it today, so I'm holding on to that. :P Unless they post a new date the coming months. :)

 

And mod osborne said that at the same time she said it.

 

He was doing a livestream in the same room as ana and at the same time ana was doing the ama :)

 

Well Hew is Osborne's boss I believe, and he said they're hoping for this year. So it seems like a definite "possibly"

[Binary Mage]

The way that Mod Hew said it made it seem like there are elements to Skill 2's development or Q&A that could either take a very short time (late 2013 release) or a very long time (early 2014 release), and that the team can't estimate it well enough until later in the year. Basically, neither is set right now, and they aren't certain enough with how the development will work out to give a good estimate on which will end up happening. Mod Hew would really, really like for it to be released this year, but it may end up needing a little bit more time.

 

This could mean a lot of things, from their design direction shifting (unlikely, seems like its been cemented for a while now from how Osborne talks) to potential new additions being considered, the sheer number of items created using Skill 2 potentially creating a lot of bugs, or perhaps even the complexity of the items potentially causing lots of Q&A uncertainty.

[DownToFletch]

Got to like, level 21 in divination already quit lol. I'll continue cooking/dailies until I can use lamps and ToG on it to level it. Tooooo slow.

 

I'm not siked for a new skill yet. (Another one.) I'm trying to max, more work at the moment would be most unbearable.

[michel555555]

Interesting on Quin's Horn so we currently have:

 

The Crown Archival - Finds the other artefacts

The Stone of Jas - Precise use not really known, but its the most powerful and lets users do extreme stuff

The Elder Kiln/Tokharr - Build the land

 

As the only ones we know the real names of, but we also know of

 

Skargaroth's/Guthix's Sword - Not clear, but it certainly seems to be able to cut portals between worlds

Staff of Armadyl (which had a gemstone added to it) - Unclear, but implied to have something to do with the spark of life

Quin's Horn - Controls animals seemingly.

 

I never did get the crown to be honest now. The elder gods made the artifacts to help them build worlds, when an artifact was found wanting it was discarded on the recently built world. They then make a crown that can find said artifacts when they should know where they were in the first place? Only to then discard it in turn?

 

and thought for sure it would have been the frost horn from temple at senestien as an elder artifact. Ah well, bets that quins horn will be a port update?

[strilmus]

i'd assume from what we know that the stone of jas is capable of reshaping and manipulating matter at the fundamental level, given that everywhere it has been ended up changed in some way, and it was the primary tool guthix had when he molded gielinor to his liking

[Sy_Accursed]

I think the Crown shows a changing attitude - early on there made lots of tools some worked well, others less so. They recreated tools trying to make them better and discarded others during this time before they had them perfected it'd make sense along the way they might suddenly want one back and need to find it. But then as their final tools were developed (presumably the kiln, horn, staff and stone seeing as they were originating on Gielinor) they no longer had need to find older experiments and so discarded the crown.

[michel555555]

I think the Crown shows a changing attitude - early on there made lots of tools some worked well, others less so. They recreated tools trying to make them better and discarded others during this time before they had them perfected it'd make sense along the way they might suddenly want one back and need to find it. But then as their final tools were developed (presumably the kiln, horn, staff and stone seeing as they were originating on Gielinor) they no longer had need to find older experiments and so discarded the crown.

 

But then wouldn't the crown have been on Gilenor as well since they wouldn't know if those tools would have been their final experiment until they were actually used.

[Sy_Accursed]

No because if they perfected the final tools say 2 or 3 worlds ago but hadn't managed to make a perfect world yet they'd take the tools with them but have no more need of the Crown to find old experiments.

 

I mean we know for certain the Kiln was on at least 1 other world because the Tokharr stuff describes their master coming and picking them up to be put on Gielinor.

[Binary Mage]

Ok, time to finally do a summary/bullet point thing for the new World Gate podcast. You can listen to it here.

 

Sorry for taking so long, first few days of college have been really busy for me. :P I've barely been able to train Divination either

• New quest is in early stages--hoping to be released in next six months. Centers around the World Gate. (Will save you the details of their recap since its on the wiki page for the most part)
  
• "It would be a bit lame if you couldn't actually go through the World Gate [during the quest]"
  
• The Sixth Age centers around more than just the Gods--it also centers around moving outwards, incorporating more worlds and races than we've seen before.
  
• The World Gate quest will allow them to more easily incorporate new worlds to the game.
  
• Mental illness and isolation will be major themes--there won't be a lot of characters, and the player will be alone for most of the quest.
  
• You will get very, very deep conversations with a select few (2 or 3) characters, which will partially be characters we have seen before and will have many questions for.
  
• The Gods and Elder Gods will be featured in some way. No Dragonkin though.
  
• There will be a crazy amount of lore and narrative impact (TWW-style) in the quest, considering how storylines are effected by the World Gate.
  
• Playing this quest will, apparently, give us the idea of the direction for many quests in the next few years.
  
• It explores the nature of being a World Guardian, and what that power means. What can, can't be done, how much choice a player has in how the Gods can effect you.
  
• Divination will be included, and will have a skill requirement.
  
• Master-rank quest. Will not be another quest that has Novice requirements but than post-quest high level rewards, will be Master rank from the start.
  
• The World Wakes had the working title of "Sleeping Dog". There was a prayer update that had the working title of "Swizzle Sticks". (Working titles are fake names they use to talk about quests internally)
  
• The quest opens up some storyline elements where they had previously written themselves into a corner. Mod Rowley's mastery of the lore allowed him to resolve this problem
  
• The quest will be largely about divergent choice. "Something you can replay to see the different experiences" Much more effective use of player choice to change major parts of the quest.
  
• Specifically, "re-skinning" the quest was talked about. (This implies that graphics will be changed depending on choice. Perhaps this means that we will have a choice as to which world we go to through the gate?)
  
• Mod Rowley has a quest cape on his personal non-Jmod account.
  
• They love to introduce things (like characters) in quests that are based off what the Players have been wanting--but then not in the way they expected. The designs for Armadyl, Bandos, and other Gods will be based on what the players expect, but then have large twists that make them even cooler than we thought.
  
• "Will we get to fix the World Gate?" "I'm not entirely sure it's broken.." We will be unlocking new functions of the World Gate in the quest.
  
• Bandos will not hate us because we defeated the Avatar of Bandos. He is likely to see it as a good thing, and want to test our combat prowess further.
  
• Char is the last remaining Auspah. It was important to Zaros that she is the last of her race--it gives her more potential for power.
  
• Lizardmen will be featured in content in some way. They have another form, and it has been mentioned in content recently. KBD lore content is related to this.
  
• Bandos is one-dimensional in the eyes of the players, but is a bit deeper than that. He doesn't lie, but he does influence people.
  
• They know the answer to Zaros' origins--what race he was originally. They don't want it to be an easy answer (Mahjarrat, Human) and will be something immense and rather complicated. "He is unique"
  
• Mod Osborne's dream quest would be the final Elf Quest--turn Prifddinas into a post-quest high-level skill hub, bring back Seren, reveal who the Dark Lord is, and tie together the lore of the elf Clans. This is, however, just his dream of how it will work out, and he knows it will likely be very very different than what he would do with it with unlimited budget and time.
  
• Chaos Elemental Hint: "The number of exempli gratia who never made it to Gielinor can be measured in one-thousandth of an ampere-hour."
  

[V O R K]

As bitter and vocal as I am at times with all these changes I must say

 

"The Sixth Age centers around more than just the Gods--it also centers around moving outwards, incorporating more worlds and races than we've seen before."

Shame about no Dragonkin.

 

OMGWTFBBQSAUCE I love Jagex!

 

Did Mod Osborne work on the former Elven quests too? I like his idea but it's just that, a speculative idea with no basis.

[Sy_Accursed]

That pdocast offers another classic example (imo) of Jagex does not understand player response fully:

 

They are still harking on about how Death of Chivalry made Saradomin less 'evil' and shows a sympathetic side to him...erm yeah player base reaction mostly seems to be the exact opposite.

 

I'm not even sure how they think it supposed to make him seem less evil.

You must get the wand to stop Zamorak using it to further war > Transpires he wants it to make more troops essentially.

I was young and foolish when I decided to kill the Naragi for not following me > What you won't do as I wish? Let me blast you with my magic to try and kill you.

Oh dear I corrupted Owen > I was hoping you'd raise the centaurs for me now cause I'm asking nicely after I realised your the one who could actually use the wand safely, lets jsut forget the trying to kill you bit hey?

I was hoping to raise the centaurs because they died for me ='[ > Of course they might fight for me in the coming war, but y'know we have the wand so yolo.

 

It's like really? This is meant to make him seem less of a douche? Basically everything he says and does is counterpointed with actions that show he hasn't changed at all and/or ulterior motives.

[Binary Mage]

I think the problem with The Death of Chivalry is that you only get the options that make him seem sympathetic and morally grey if you have already supported him in previous quests and dialogue. If you think he's an evil arse (and treat him as such) he just continues being an evil arse.

 

But yeah, its definitely something that they are getting better and better at. The more information we get about the different gods the more they seem like complex characters rather than one-sided personifications of their chosen specialization.

[Sy_Accursed]

I think the problem with The Death of Chivalry is that you only get the options that make him seem sympathetic and morally grey if you have already supported him in previous quests and dialogue. If you think he's an evil arse (and treat him as such) he just continues being an evil arse.

 

Pretty much the only route that really bypasses any arsery is if you are his support in the first place AND opt to hand over the wand no questions and even with that in mind, assuming you are blind to all other dialogue choices (unlike all of people who like lore) there's still there 'we must get it to stop zammy using it for war but y'know I will use it for that' and the 'I want to raise the centaurs cause it's my fault they all died for making them fight..and they'll be great troops in the coming war' elements that aren't exactly awww I'm all sunshine and roses. Not to mention he corrupts Owen not matter want proving a lack of virtue and the fact he can just tele in at the end shows that he only used us as a tool to clear the wards since he clearly couldn't.

[Alg]

Pretty much the only route that really bypasses any arsery is if you are his support in the first place AND opt to hand over the wand no questions and even with that in mind, assuming you are blind to all other dialogue choices (unlike all of people who like lore) there's still there 'we must get it to stop zammy using it for war but y'know I will use it for that' and the 'I want to raise the centaurs cause it's my fault they all died for making them fight..and they'll be great troops in the coming war' elements that aren't exactly awww I'm all sunshine and roses. Not to mention he corrupts Owen not matter want proving a lack of virtue and the fact he can just tele in at the end shows that he only used us as a tool to clear the wards since he clearly couldn't.

And even then, you already have to like him. Some of us like the idea of a god that shows his human side, the rest of us think that makes him less worthy of godlike power. And even then, they botched that through railroading; Saradomin can accept his mistakes, but if he does anything to change them they lose their storyline. The fact that his personality changes based on your responses really makes it feel like most of the choices are cosmetic.

 

So he's either displaying very real regret for what he's done, just before doing it again... Or he's flat-out lying to us without giving us a chance to call him out on it. If your goal is to make your character likeable... That's really not how you do it.

 

Make him struggle to find a balance between his "god of wisdom" side and his "god of order" side in both paths, leave it up to the players whether he gets to redeem himself or not, or letting our actions influence which he embraces (Supporting him turns him into the god his followers want him to be, not doing so turns him into the god his enemies see). Don't give him two distinct personalities depending on whether you want him to be a good guy or not, especially not when he only gets one set of actions that's only in character for one of them.

[helring]

I think the problem with The Death of Chivalry is that you only get the options that make him seem sympathetic and morally grey if you have already supported him in previous quests and dialogue. If you think he's an evil arse (and treat him as such) he just continues being an evil arse.

 

Pretty much the only route that really bypasses any arsery is if you are his support in the first place AND opt to hand over the wand no questions and even with that in mind, assuming you are blind to all other dialogue choices (unlike all of people who like lore) there's still there 'we must get it to stop zammy using it for war but y'know I will use it for that' and the 'I want to raise the centaurs cause it's my fault they all died for making them fight..and they'll be great troops in the coming war' elements that aren't exactly awww I'm all sunshine and roses. Not to mention he corrupts Owen not matter want proving a lack of virtue and the fact he can just tele in at the end shows that he only used us as a tool to clear the wards since he clearly couldn't.

 

See, I came away with a completely different viewpoint than you did about Saradomin in this quest. You equate him demolishing a naragi city to him pushing you down a bit, I don't think the actions are equal at all. His follower, whom he had just recruited to aid him recover the wand in the quest lies dead before you. You cannot ressurect sir owen (you can try to do it by using the wand on him, it doesn't work) so the only chance owen has is if saradomin gets the wand. You stand there and tell him no, dooming one more of his followers to permanent death. He does what he feels needs to be done (a prominent character trait/flaw for him, depending upon if you view this as a good or bad thing). In this case the only way Sir Owen has a chance to live is if he takes the wand, so he knocks you over and takes it,using it to save sir owen. Sir Owen may be partially corrupted, but he isn't fully corrupted, he is fighting it and now actually has a chance at recovering later. Saradomin with the Naragi did what he did for himself (I have the crown and that means I'm in charge!). In this quest he want to use the wand to save the centaurs and Sir Owen. Will he use the centaurs as troops, yes, but with enemies as tough as the other gods, the only way his followers can truly be safe is if he wins the war he's fighting.

 

As far as the part where he corrupted Sir Owen and therefore he isn't virtuous, I have 2 things to say to that. First of all you don't have to be virtuous to be a generally good person. He feels he needs to be willing to do what it takes to ultimately protect his followers. Is he flawed, yes, but overall I believe this quest put him in a better light. Secondly, we never really get a definition as to what virtuous means within the context of the quest. We the player pass the test of virtue, and we have killed many, possibly tortured some, stolen a lot, etc. Mod Stu heavily hinted that either virtuousness is not quite what you'd normally think of or there is more to this wand than it appears.