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Dev Blog: QP master cape


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#41
Saradomin_Mage
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I believe the large pouch lasts something like ~50 trips worth of ess? If that isn't long enough idk what is lol

The giant pouch lasts for less before it starts degrading for the first time. Also, the point is that repair rune pouch lasts longer. The rune pouch could last for 1000 trips, but repairing it to last for 1100 trips would still be longer.

Ardy lodestone is definitely more than 4 seconds from the herb patch. You're completely out of touch if you can't believe that people "still" use the Trollheim herb patch.

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#42
Helical
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They could easily make Livid Farm much more bearable by just making each spell cost a certain amount of points and allow the spells to be bought in any order. Buying a spell would cause points to decrease but each spell would cost roughly the same amount. Since there are 11 spells and they currently cost 850k points total, they could make each spell cost 77k points (850k/11). The activity would still take the same amount of time, but players would probably start working on it much earlier since they could buy the spells that will be useful to them whenever those spells are useful rather than having to work extra hard to buy a bunch of spells they don't want first.


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#43
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Whilst I agree livid farm could do with some work I think it's unfair to say it has nothing useful about it.

 

Repair Rune Pouches is a very useful spell for anyone doing actual rune running still. If you're running runes it takes all of half a second to stop at the mage in the center of the abyss

North Ardougne Tele is gr8 for herb/farm runs for those without the elite cape. I don't have the elite cape yet you still get 1 free teleport a day from hard cape, plus ardy lodestone is all of 4 seconds away.

Remote Farm has a number of solid uses. Indeed this can be useful, but if you're like me and pay farmers because you aren't willing to risk xp when you don't/can't check trees it's ok. for herbs it's definitely useful. 

Make leather can be a good shortcut if you craft via hides Portable crafters make this spell pretty meh now. If you plan on sitting at black dragons or whateverr all day and tanning as you get the hides so you can make them into stuff then alch them I guess it's ok

Veng Group is useful in some combat stuff, even if not totall top end meta game,

Trollheim tele to the herb patch insanely useful. I'll be honest I didn't even know people still went to this patch lol

 

Admittedly a lot of it loses its use if you are already maxed, but I think the issue is less that the spells aren't useful and more that the gameplay is soooo grindy and sooo long that it out weighs peoples desire to unlock useful content before they have to.

 

 

Kind just echoing what others have said but:

1) Repairing pouches lasts longer when done via the spell and is therefore more efficient as you spend less time repair them overall

2) Lode stone is more than 4 seconds away from the herb patch. Admittedly it is closer than the teleport spell, but when you are trying to do a herb run before juju runs out the faster teleport really matters, unless of course you are now investing in quick charges for lodes which does decrease the spells worth

3) It's great that you pay farmers, but in the meta game you shouldn't be a lot of the time which is where this spells use comes in.

4) True portables does dent some of this spells use, but then there is still ironman accounts and not everyone has or can be bothered chasing down portable.s

5) Anyone who is doing herb runs should be going to trollheim unless they are a complete idiot. It is a herb patch guaranteed to not die. Even of the suckiest of herb runs it guarantees you get some herbs and was 100% always worth using on every single herb run ever conceived even before the convenience of a direct teleport emerged.


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#44
Miss_Kozlov
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It might be aggressive, but only because of how truly awful a piece of content Livid Farm is and because at the time it was developed they should've known better.
Back after a 5 year TIF hiatus. Please don't mind me too much.

#45
Saradomin_Mage
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Actually, what about Livid Farm is so awful in comparison to other grindy skills like Thieving (Plunder, non-Prif Pickpocketing), Mining (drop iron, granite) or Agility (every course)? All of them share the same mechanic - they're all non-afk and require your undivided attention. Perhaps you could argue that Livid Farm requires far more iterations (40 hours as opposed to maybe 3 at iron), but the core gameplay is still pretty much the same.

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#46
Hajutze
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The activity itself is not bad, it's just that you need to do it for at least 45 hours in order to get to all the stuff ... and I am sure you can actually get more than one skill on 99 for that time.

 

Sure there are a lot of useful stuff in there but the question is - is it worth 45 hours ?



#47
Saradomin_Mage
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Is a mining cape worth the 40+ hours of drop mining iron and granite?

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.


#48
Hajutze
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That's really another question ... (the uselessness of most of the skills). Being a bit more useful than something useless ... is not really an argument.



#49
Saradomin_Mage
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So why complain about Livid Farm in particular?

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.


#50
Saru Inc
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Hmm. I hate quests, but a master quest that doesn't take hundred of hours of monotonous grind sounds fun. Time to start questing so I can be close to this when it comes out. Looks like 90 Base requirement for it tho with "All chest in A Broken Home"

Just wait for Mourning's Bend Part IV, which is where you play a colorblind gnome wearing a mourner's mask that covers most of your field of sight. The quest is the exact same thing as Mourning's End Part II, except backwards, and there's a time limit. It doesn't count as grinding though, because the puzzle changes every time you die or run out of time. So, that's cool.


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#51
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Mage, those skills were developed early on and have since had the game leave them in the dust as it were.

Hence my point that by the time it was developed they should have known better and tried for better.
Back after a 5 year TIF hiatus. Please don't mind me too much.

#52
Saradomin_Mage
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Idk man, a lot of content released around that era was also pretty boring and grindy, even though it was over 7 years since the release of agility.

Advanced agility courses popped up in 2009 - you'd think they would have "known better" by then, but it was the same old agility mechanic.
Mobilising armies in 2009 was turned into a 25 hour grind for rank, despite it offering more depth for strategy.
The Champions' Challenge update later in the year was literally a rehash of the same thing from 2005.

Familiarisation is running around clicking 60 piles of shards. BIG WHOOP.
Herblore Habitat was a nice place to fight with RNG to get the seeds you needed to continue unlocking stuff in the Habitat. While training Hunter in the exact same way, of course.

Even post-Livid Farm we've seen all kinds of inane grinding activities being thrown into the game. The 2013 December Christmas event was a grindfest for points, and even now there's a sand filled crater in Lumbridge with the same old mindless grind.

Idk what you expect Jagex to do when time and again they've churned out grindy content, and yet the players happily accept some of it while calling the rest unbearable or decrying it as the worst thing ever. Jagex has "known better" for 4 years since the release of Livid Farm, and we're still getting the same shit.

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.


#53
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It's easier to make and balance. Every time they throw in something a bit different, the community throws a tantrum. I still remember the fuss after they released Dungeoneering ...



#54
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So why complain about Livid Farm in particular?

I guess the reason for that is because Livid Farm is a minigame which many don't use to get 99 in a skill, of which the rewards are not that great for most people. People like training a skill more than doing a minigame (except PvP minigames). I am not disagreeing with you, but that is probably why.

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#55
DownToFletch
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I believe the large pouch lasts something like ~50 trips worth of ess? If that isn't long enough idk what is lol

The giant pouch lasts for less before it starts degrading for the first time. Also, the point is that repair rune pouch lasts longer. The rune pouch could last for 1000 trips, but repairing it to last for 1100 trips would still be longer.

Ardy lodestone is definitely more than 4 seconds from the herb patch. You're completely out of touch if you can't believe that people "still" use the Trollheim herb patch.

 

Most people don't understand how long a second is, but I know what you're saying for the lodestone. 

 

I just feel that the trollheim patch is a little out of the way even with a teleport to trollheim, I find it to be faster to go to all the other herb patches and continue doing whatever else I want to :/

 

 

 

Whilst I agree livid farm could do with some work I think it's unfair to say it has nothing useful about it.

 

Repair Rune Pouches is a very useful spell for anyone doing actual rune running still. If you're running runes it takes all of half a second to stop at the mage in the center of the abyss

North Ardougne Tele is gr8 for herb/farm runs for those without the elite cape. I don't have the elite cape yet you still get 1 free teleport a day from hard cape, plus ardy lodestone is all of 4 seconds away.

Remote Farm has a number of solid uses. Indeed this can be useful, but if you're like me and pay farmers because you aren't willing to risk xp when you don't/can't check trees it's ok. for herbs it's definitely useful. 

Make leather can be a good shortcut if you craft via hides Portable crafters make this spell pretty meh now. If you plan on sitting at black dragons or whateverr all day and tanning as you get the hides so you can make them into stuff then alch them I guess it's ok

Veng Group is useful in some combat stuff, even if not totall top end meta game,

Trollheim tele to the herb patch insanely useful. I'll be honest I didn't even know people still went to this patch lol

 

Admittedly a lot of it loses its use if you are already maxed, but I think the issue is less that the spells aren't useful and more that the gameplay is soooo grindy and sooo long that it out weighs peoples desire to unlock useful content before they have to.

 

 

Kind just echoing what others have said but:

1) Repairing pouches lasts longer when done via the spell and is therefore more efficient as you spend less time repair them overall

2) Lode stone is more than 4 seconds away from the herb patch. Admittedly it is closer than the teleport spell, but when you are trying to do a herb run before juju runs out the faster teleport really matters, unless of course you are now investing in quick charges for lodes which does decrease the spells worth

3) It's great that you pay farmers, but in the meta game you shouldn't be a lot of the time which is where this spells use comes in.

4) True portables does dent some of this spells use, but then there is still ironman accounts and not everyone has or can be bothered chasing down portable.s

5) Anyone who is doing herb runs should be going to trollheim unless they are a complete idiot. It is a herb patch guaranteed to not die. Even of the suckiest of herb runs it guarantees you get some herbs and was 100% always worth using on every single herb run ever conceived even before the convenience of a direct teleport emerged.

 

1) I see where you're coming from but I feel as though that's a 120/200m problem... To 99 that isn't really a huge deal, am I wrong? :P

5) I guess myself and thousands of people are idiots, that's ok though

 

Idk man, a lot of content released around that era was also pretty boring and grindy, even though it was over 7 years since the release of agility.

Advanced agility courses popped up in 2009 - you'd think they would have "known better" by then, but it was the same old agility mechanic.
Mobilising armies in 2009 was turned into a 25 hour grind for rank, despite it offering more depth for strategy.
The Champions' Challenge update later in the year was literally a rehash of the same thing from 2005.

Familiarisation is running around clicking 60 piles of shards. BIG WHOOP.
Herblore Habitat was a nice place to fight with RNG to get the seeds you needed to continue unlocking stuff in the Habitat. While training Hunter in the exact same way, of course.

Even post-Livid Farm we've seen all kinds of inane grinding activities being thrown into the game. The 2013 December Christmas event was a grindfest for points, and even now there's a sand filled crater in Lumbridge with the same old mindless grind.

Idk what you expect Jagex to do when time and again they've churned out grindy content, and yet the players happily accept some of it while calling the rest unbearable or decrying it as the worst thing ever. Jagex has "known better" for 4 years since the release of Livid Farm, and we're still getting the same shit.

I'm not disagreeing with you here but when they make the game too easy, everyone and their mother has something to say about the game being too easy. There's no happy medium, I don't think.


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#56
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Efficient training is never just a 120/200m problem.

 

Pouches get 500% durability from the spell.

Giant pouches normal degrade in 12 uses, this makes it 60 uses.

 

Even if you say repairing only takes you 10 seconds thats saving you 40 seconds per 60 trips and in terms of making xp/large amounts of runes we are talking thousands of trips.

600 trips, 400 seconds saved 6.6mins

6000 trips 4000 seconds 1hr 6minutes

 

From 77 (blood rune level) to 99 you need to make around 1.2m bloods (not accounting for the new abyss xp boost and assuming master rc and clana ava 3% boost)

At maximum reasonable efficiency you can make 61 runes worth of xp in 1 run (thats 30 for the 4 standard pouches, 7 for a familiar and 24 invetory slots)

So that's 19,672 runs for 77 to 99

That's 328 lots of 60 trips.

Resulting in 13,120 seconds saved aka 219 minutes aka 3.6 hours.

And that is *just* for doing 77 to 99.

 

It is a significant time saver, which in turn boosts gp or xp per hr. Of course it does suffer from whether it is efficient to get vs just spending the time rcing, but thats my point in the first place. Livid farm has useful rewards its the process of unlocking them that is the issue.

 

As for 5 - lol thousands of people don't do herb runs without trollheim, at least not those with access to it. Every single question on fansites about herb runs and every single guide worth its salt mentions trollheim, you are very much in a minority to not be using trollheim. I mean profit/xp get 101 is to use as many patches as possible for your herb runs and thats BEFORE you factor in that trollheim can never ever ever die making it a holy grail of profit saving on bad runs.


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#57
strilmus
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So, they decided to delay the cape for now since the guy in charge got into a big fight with the users and they are doing another Invention and pushing it back while reconsidering the "guidelines" which seem to cause more issues and be waived frequently in favor of masochists anyway instead of actually helping.


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#58
DeEliteOne
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rip


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Inefficiency = fun. That's objective and can't be debated. Ever.

 

Blog to 200m in all skills.

Max cape achieved November 5th, 2011.

Completionist cape achieved December 29th, 2011.

Final Boss title achieved December 28th, 2014.

Trimmed completionist cape achieved November 7th, 2015.


#59
essiw
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So, they decided to delay the cape for now since the guy in charge got into a big fight with the users and they are doing another Invention and pushing it back while reconsidering the "guidelines" which seem to cause more issues and be waived frequently in favor of masochists anyway instead of actually helping.


Not that I was anywhere close in getting the cape, but what a bs...

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#60
Sy_Accursed
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Silver lining at least I have time to get more chompy enhancers now to abate the murderous rage that would be caused by having to kill the last 1k without them.


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