Is luring an acceptable practice?

[HiddenTruth]

 

Yes it is, it has even been confirmed by a JMod along the lines "There's the wilderness sign pop-up warning you, if you die in the wildy, it's your fault." Seriously, I've seen lurers take people past level 20 wildy, if they're that dumb they deserve to lose their items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you think its ok to prey on the vulnerable? If someone attacked you from behind is it your fault because your too stupid to have eyes in the back of your head?

 

 

 

I'm not the vulnerable, if someone attacked me from behind with my rares on, then I'd call that a hack because I don't go into the wildy with rares or valuable items.

[sir_me47]

I am seriously distraught by the amount of people who say luring is okay just because "They have the skill to do so" or "the people who are lured deserve it."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've posted before, and I believe others have to:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WHETHER OR NOT YOU DESERVE TO BE LURED DOESN'T MATTER!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're breaking a law or rule, you deserve to be punished for it, no matter whether the victim was stupid or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for saying it takes skill to lure:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It takes skill to set up corporate frauds too. It takes skill to cheat thousands and thousands of employees out of their incomes. Enron still got punished for it when they got caught, did they not? (Sorry if I spelled the companies name wrong.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you break a rule, you deserve to be punished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rule 2 clearly says deceiving another player for their items is not tolerated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are LYING to someone, telling them you want to trade, when you're trying to kill them, you are deceiving them. Yes, it's partially their fault for being stupid enough to fall for it. I won't deny that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, you STILL deserve to be punished for a violation of rule 2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yea, before someone comes on and posts that "in that case pures are violations of rule 2 as well."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The deception can not be blamed on the player. If the pure told you "I'm only 40 strength" when he's 90, that is a deception. But just because the code displays his combat level as low, and you assume that to mean he's weak, doesn't mean he is responsible for deceiving you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

deceiving= leing about there stats or tricking them into fighting them in wildy. this could be a form of luring, getting a player to skull on them then whip out there unbeleivably high mage and KO the player very easily... and when you said,

 

 

 

"But just because the code displays his combat level as low, and you assume that to mean he's weak, doesn't mean he is responsible for deceiving you."

 

 

 

this is very much decieving...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and why do people keep bringing up stealing real life money?

 

 

 

do people really not have the life to tell the difference between items and gold peices on a game, to real life money? you might say it has the same priorities. And no it doesnt not at all, some one can actually end your career in real life by putting you in so much debt you have to file for bank rupcey and lose all of your posetions. Compared to a game where you can just build up your wealth like you did in the first place...

[Soulthresher]

Rofl, its hilarious on the amount of ppl who have been lured. I mean come on, you let yourself fall for it. The wilderness is a very dangerous place and is repeated over and over. The fact that most of it looks charred, skeletons everywhere, and the fact that people can kill you in the wilderness should be a sign. The reason why luring, scamming, etc., are around is because people fall for it. You encourage them. Lurer #1 pks a santa hat. He keeps luring. Lurer #2 gets caught and ends up pked himselve. He won't lure again. Ya, someone has tried to lure me by offering Verac's set for 200k underpriced. Meet me at the bridge near Edgeville, I'm woodcutting there. Hm... :-k A little suspicious, don't you think? Ok lets check it out. The fact that he won't move to come to me is a sign. The fact that I can see the mage in the background is also a sign. What do I do? Go back to bank instead of going inside of the wilderness! Its very simple to avoid a lure. It is actually harder to lure than it is to avoid a lure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you didn't want to read that, here is the summary. Get a brain ya moron!

[Dragoon5464]

You're stupid if you fell for this! Right? WRONG.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's compare this, again, to real life, shall we? How acceptable is it to offer someone something, then lure them someplace nice and quiet to beat them up and rob them? Not very.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But then again, I'm very staunch morally--I don't think people should even PK. It's not much different than luring, really, unless you're only killing other PKers. But the fact that they exist makes, say, clue scrolls a big risk--I want rewards, but I don't want someone else getting my stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides, PKing, luring, whatever--it all stagnates the economy. Anyone with the magic to do Ice Barrage should be fighting the KBD or the KQ or something--the more d meds and d chains exist ingame, the cheaper they are for all of us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the 13 and up rule? Yes, it exists, but it's ignored and basically impossible to enforce, so...it's pointless. Yes, many players are under the age of 10, and at that age, it's not your fault if you fell for it. Now, if you're 30 and you fell for it, you're pretty stupid, but that still doesn't mean you deserved it (unless you're a lurer too, you naughty person!)

[peiffer1066]

I personally don't like lurers, I think it's a pretty rotten way to make a buck. Preying on the ignorance or sheer stupidity of other people is low. I put them into a group with people that pk at the zamorak mage, green drags, try to teleother people at barrows or dagganoth kings, etc... It really can be pretty upsetting when you are just trying to train or sell some items and people take advantage of that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That being said, it's actually a little pathetic the number of people i see on world 2 in Falador yelling things like: "Drop party follow x0x lure you x0x [i am pretty sure that is not a real rs name [sorry if it is!]]," "OMG IT'S ZEZIMA!!! FOLLOW TO SEE!!!!," or "I'll buy your whip for 10M!! FOLLOW!!" etc... But, the more pathetic figure is the amount of people actually following them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People really ought to know better. Even if you are dumb enough to follow someone yelling something like that, wouldnt you be a little suspicious of the skulled people around you as you are approaching the wild?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I have never been lured; though many people have attempted to have me follow them into the wilderness.

[majben]

I've read pages 1-4 1nd 14 and I think that I may have the perfect solution to wilderness luring. Jagex should introduce a new piece of enchantd jewerly that provides immediate teleportation in the event of pvp damage to the character or by the character. It would work at the first sign of danger as opposed to the ring of life that works at the last possible second. It would be useless to pkers and lurers but would be perfect for those that come to the wild through trickery or just to do a clue scroll.

[goretint]

First off, I don't agree with luring. However, for the most popular lure (wildy) it really is in most cases the victims fault. I know the comparisons with real life are many, and they are valid to a point (we are all real people after all) but this is a GAME. That is not to say that its right to lure into the wildy, just that it isn't really wrong either. Hence Jagex using the line "isn't in the spirit of the game" Intentionally vague.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People, however, seem to be forgetting the other lures out there. The ones that are blatant offenses. Just recently Jagex made it impossible to extinguish light sources in all the dark places. The Fally Mole was a popular lure spot(I have seen and intervened in dozens of lures to the mole while getting 80 firemaking) as most players don't know of it - even high levels(of course, there are so many ignorant high combats because of PC now that it's easy to find a victim) - and don't realize that putting out your light kills you since if a warning is present it doesn't say that bugs will swarm you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing is, with a mostly moral debate there is no one answer. The best you can do is follow what you believe to be right and "in the spirit of the game", help new players BEFORE yelling NOOB!!, have fun with your friends, and turn your computer off once in awhile and go outside.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS: I say mostly moral debate because in most cases, luring is in the gray area and Jagex has been careful to make that clear.

[carl3434]

I don't agree with luring..the reason people play games is to relax and enjoy the game. Call it stupidity if you want but if you aren't aware of how certain things work in the game it can be very easy to have advantage taken over you. The lure with the tree near edgy. The reason most people fall for it is because you dont know your in the wildy till your standing right next to them by then the mage has usually hit you. However you look at it, its still decieving another player for your own gain. Afterall that is the reason a lure works because the person being lured doesnt know how things work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

About the Dag kings, after the first lure attempt you should be able to recognise the lure and tele if you dont know how to stay down there with a lurer. There are ways down there to make a lurer useless and you can almost stay as long as normal. All it does is take the fun out of the game and eventually some people will just say "why bother the lurers just ruin it". I know I'm fed up of finding lures down there it wrecks your trips and I play for fun, that isnt fun!

[lordfizzy]

you can lead/lure a horse to water (edge of wildy) but you cannot make him drink it (step into wildy).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

everyone knows what the wilderness is in runescape ( a place where other players can kill you). and, everyone who steps into the wilderness does so after being warned of its danger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the choice to enter the wilderness is made by each player, and is not forced upon any player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you can be killed by other players in the wildy, plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this is likely why jagex does not consider the luring aspect cheating.

 

 

 

other players are allowed to kill other players in the wilderness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

whether you are 10 years old or 70 years old, we all should be prepared before going into the wilderness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, why should there be conditions on how you kill someone in the wild?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't believe it is item scamming at all. what it is, is killing someone in the wild to get their spoils. :boohoo:

[peiffer1066]

It may not be scamming, true. But the facts remain that it isn't honest, nor is it very honorable. :shame: If it is against the rules or not, it still a lowly way of playing the game. Lure if you want, I won' stop you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blame it on the people that get lured. Call them idiots or whatever. But there wouldn't be a debate if people didn't do it. Only so much blame can be put on the victim. You can take all your stuff to the wild, but someone has to attack you. Losing all your stuff is no fun at all. -.-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And isn't that what RuneScape is about, Having Fun? I think we all need a daily dose of strong moral fiber. (Sorry for being cheesy, I couldn't resist.) :

[MTP]

Let's try something... I HAD been lured before by a fletch caper (though i forgot his name) and his excuse of so was "huge drop party follow" I followed it at world 2 while trying to buy a d axe, so i had the money on me. Simple as that, i had friends on and i was talking to him when i was following the guy. Soon after, he went through the black knight fortress into the wildy. Only one person went there. He got killed by another pker, and the lurer just basically stood there. Soon after, i saw a lvl 59 who followed the lurer (lurer was level 95, pker was 89, i was 95) and asked him "Why do you do that?" the lurer said nothing. Soon after he said he can't pk on that account, so then he logged out. I don't know what happened next because i simply walked away after telling my friend that it was a lure. Well then, try thinking according to this story... We have this lurer who depends on the pker to kill. Now, according to the fact that some people thinks rules are to protect the weak "and the stupid", some people just think the people being pked deserved it. Either way, if rules are to protect those who are dumb enough to actually enter the wilderness and ignore the other people's warning (yes there was warning by other people), i would say that the person needs a brain lesson (no offense). Now, if the person who is tricked deserves it, then i doubt if anyone will ever agree that the pker DESERVES the loots. Well, just my opinion.

 

 

 

EDIT: no i didn't actually got killed before you guys ask :)

[Greedom1]

The whole point of much of law is to defend the weak, the infirm, and yes, the stupid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no such thing as "this is legal because you're a moron if you fall for it." Tell that to the conmen and scammers in white-collar prisons. Sure, the one being scammed shares part of the blame, but it doesn't absolve the scammer of moral responsibility. I'm somewhat shocked that this attitude is so prevalent on this thread. I expect that you would be somewhat ticked if you got mugged and the cops said "It's your fault for being in this part of town, so we're not going to press charges."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my personal opinion, luring as defined above is item scamming, pure and simple. It's lying to another player for your own personal gain - so rule two directly applies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with most of what you're saying except that Jagex isn't clear exactly what "item scamming" is. Clearly swapping a noted iron scim for a rune one is item scamming. Trading someone when you're on the edge of the wildy isn't as clear-cut.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think there needs to be a deeper discussion about the rules of the game before we get into castigating the behavior of individuals that are playing the game as it is currently designed. When Jagex decides to finally address these issues with a serious backbone, then I think that might be the time we can truly have a serious discussion about this. Until then, Jagex's half-measures will leave us with an incomplete discussion.

[LongestMile]

It pretty simple to me:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think of trade scamming, a person puts up 1m and switches it to 10k. Is this scamming? Yes, clearly it is. Is it the victims fault? Yes, he could have easily avoided this by paying more attention to the second trade screen. But even though the victim made a mistake, that does not make trade scamming acceptable

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What about password scamming? If you say your password outloud or give it away, your an idot, but its still scamming!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Luring is exactly the same. Its your fault for wandering into the wilderness, but just as much fault belongs to the lurer who scammed you.

[anthony7489]

 

 

Yes it is, it has even been confirmed by a JMod along the lines "There's the wilderness sign pop-up warning you, if you die in the wildy, it's your fault." Seriously, I've seen lurers take people past level 20 wildy, if they're that dumb they deserve to lose their items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you think its ok to prey on the vulnerable? If someone attacked you from behind is it your fault because your too stupid to have eyes in the back of your head?

 

 

 

I'm not the vulnerable, if someone attacked me from behind with my rares on, then I'd call that a hack because I don't go into the wildy with rares or valuable items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

does it matter if your not vulnerable? not everyone is like you get used to it.

[hackedpunk]

Ok just a little warning:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This guy once lured me (though I kinda figured it was a scam) in to wildy. He got just a few squares away, then he did this wierd emote that looks like you're calling to someone, and when you're following the person who does the emote (which I was), it you go like 5-10 squares into the wildy lol, I don't know how to stop yoursekf from doing it. Then of course he ran into wildy, froze me (well not really froze, I forgot what he did, but you get stuch for 5 seconds) a couple of times, and hes group of PKers came out and killed me. And there was this one guy obviously a strength pure, like lvl 97, and he hit 30s on me. But no harm done because I wasn't wearing anything hehe.

[Heyitsmedad]

i disagree with all of you, luring isnt nessacarily trade scamming someone into the wildy, if someone trades you and you notice on your mini map that your bounding north you can simply click decline. duh =D> also if your already in the wildy you could get mage lured into multi combat and killed by a team and complain "hey that was no fair!". face it its life, if you dont want to die avoid the wildy. if you dont want to be trade lured in edgeville only accept trades inside the bank, duh. really it is easier to be trying to bank you cash and click drop all instead of bank all, or get traded big bones instead of dragon bones, or willows instead of mage logs when buying items, then it is to get trade lured into the wildy, i mean honestly... :-w

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

people in todays day and age need to use their brains, the other day i was buying a rope 1k, and this girl trades me a whip, im thinking haha very funny lady, and click accept to go along with it. the second trade screen pops up and i wait for 5 minutes, and i see other player has accepted the trade and i say wow how nice of her and accept. so im in the bank for a few minutes and next thing i know shes like hey! what did i give you! (keep in mind this is a level 112 who has probably had years of experience at rs), she then starts calling me a grimey player and a trade scammer and starts flaming me. AT THIS POIN WAS I OBLIGATED TO RETURN HER WHIP? i think not! for 2 reasons. 1: shes lv 112 for {monkeys} sake she should have half a brain to pay attention to what she i sdoing, 2: if your trying to convince someone to return a valuable item, it may help to avoid having the entire bank flame the person whos in controll of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i think that scenario applys to luring, if your dum enough to let yourself be lured into the wildy, as an experienced player then you sort of deserve to lose your item, 2: if you do get lured why complain? the more your pitch a fit and fuss about it the less likely you are to ever see that item again. 3: by complaining about how easy it is to get lured and how you lose so many nice items and how a lurer got rich off you, you are encouraging newer players to train up to be lurers in hopes of getting a players items such as yours.

[bop_dravian]

This whole thing about luring has aggravated me than any other thing I have seen go on in three years of playing. The simple fact is that Rule 2 is very clear and unambiguous: Lying or deceiving others for personal gain is against the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just because one rogue j-mod makes a posting of an interpretation of the rules does not constitute a vaild change in the Terms & Condidtions under which we have all agreed to operate. I don't care if Andrew himself made a posting about the rules in the forums, it doesn't actually change the rules according to the contract. The T&C does NOT require anyone to read the forums to know the rules, however is does require jagex to enforce the rules as listed on the website.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this instance I actually reported the j-mod in question for a violation of Rule 9 (encouraging others to break the rules) and to my complete shock, the very same mod I complained about answered me saying his interpretation was the "official position" of Jagex. This is a completely unacceptable form of customer support.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is really annoying is the way they have perpetrated this mess from the beginning. A j-mod made a sticky posting which constitutes a MAJOR change to the Rules and the T&C and did so in a single forum read by a small percentage of players. The mods then locked almost every discussion of the change except for one thread in the Forum Feedback area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They also contradicted themselves by saying that luring is legal, but discussing it in the forums is not. Now someone really needs to explain to me why we are not allowed to discuss something in the forums if it is actually an acceptable part of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As to the luring itself, there are different definitions of exactly what constitutes luring. Trade scamming in or near the wildy should be an immediately bannable offence at all times. This should be especially true for those who abuse a known bug that allows players to be taken into the wildy against their will and without being able to see the wilderness warning screen. And yes, there is a bug that does that, and no I will not describe it in better detail here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Deception againt trusting players will get us more of the kind of people that I really don't want in the game. Much like abuse, those who are lured will become lurers. We will lose those people who would be the best players in the game. Those who are honest, trusting, and willing to work with others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have nothing against those who PK. It's a part of the game. I have a major problem with those who would lie (including lies of ommission) and deceive just to get the kill. It's only fun if everyone involved is having fun. The person who has been lured, killed, and robbed is not having fun. They are simply being abused at the hands of others for amusement and personal gain. The people who do this are exactly the kind of people the game would be better off without - bullies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I respect the idea that the wilderness is a dangerous place. I actually don't think it is dangerous enough. I think Jagex should simply stop ALL trading in the wilderness, period. The wilderness is a place where the strongest should survive, and the better player should win. If you go there, and you believe in that philosophy, then you don't need your friend to give you food or an anti-poison. You should die just like anyone else would. There are a lot of hypocrites who say the wilderness is every player for themselves, but would cry if we didn't let them trade there anymore. It's as simple as this - don't kill if your not willing to die.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Luring is a despicable practice and should continue to be a reportable and bannable offense. I really don't care if the poeple in CS don't think they can keep up with the reports, or determine what really happened. That is a problem for the programmers at Jagex to fix. Players should not be made to suffer until Jagex does their job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am disappointed in the entire response of Jagex to this situation. They have refused to give players proper notification of a major change in the rules, or they have continued to allow one of there employees to violate the rules without giving the players any kind of recourse. At least it is good to know that the company thinks they are doing well enough to open themselves up to this kind of potential liability.

[wildpownege]

 

 

I do not think it is acceptable. To be honest i don't see any difference between luring and scamming as both of them cause the victim to lose items with intention.

 

 

 

then pk'ing is also scamming, when u go on p trip u are gonna kill ppl with hte intention to make them lose items and get them for your own personal gain \

 

 

 

There's quite an obvious distinction:

 

 

 

PKing involves no deception. Anyone found wandering in the wildy without being lured is there of their own volition and therefor fair game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i strongly dissagree with this. people pk and other bs them. for an example.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"hey your a pretty good pker wanna pk with me?"

 

 

 

"sure"

 

 

 

"ok come lets go team some noobs"

 

 

 

"ok"

 

 

 

few minutes pass an d agroup of friends come and kill the kid that the other asked to pk with him. and the kid just got back stabbed wat would you say that is? hmm? luring? no the kid had a intention on killing the other person. so what would you consider that as?

[Heyitsmedad]

jagex knows what they doing, listen to the staff man, luring is fine. what they mean by deception is if someone says something like. "drop your tinderbox, dig at this mole hill, and blow out your candle and get a free p hat!" that is deception, trading and running isnt deceptive :notalk:

[PhelimReagh]

This thread has been a bit of an eye-opener.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seeing the wide-spread support/blame the naive victim mentality even among Tip.it'ers (whom rightly or wrongly I considered a cut above your average 'Scaper), I've finally come to the realization that this game isn't for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd been having a harder and harder time staying motivated, and realizing the mentality of people I'm playing with, that really made me evaluate why I played this game at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've now unsubscribed, and have 21 days member credit remaining.

[gildogg]

In my OPINION PK'ing in any way is not acceptible and Luring is the lowest of the low.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why do I think PK'ing is not acceptible? No I didn't get pk'ed and lose a ton of money or anything, I always avoid the wildy unless getting a god staff or doing a level 3 clue. The reason I think it is wrong is because the laws of our real life society say it's wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's an example: I have bigger muscles than you so give me your wallet right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know, "It's a game, it's not real life". However people, especially kids at the impressionable age that many Runescape Players are, imitate what they see on a day to day basis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's my OPINION on PK'ing and Luring, take it or leave it, it's just an OPINION

[wildpownege]

to be totally honest im kinda sick of hearing people whine about this luring. get over it lose items go back to work and get them back. or quit either way its not effecting jagex they make millions a day. but ne ways i thought i might add this. in the past i was hacked of my phat and lots of other pricey items. after that i thought id quit but i said u kno wat it gives me more reason to play i started to get bored i had just about everything i could want. but now i look back and thank the person that hacked me. because now i can enjoy the game once more.

[dino]

You must not scam or deceive other players. Lying to other players for your own personal gain is not in the spirit of the game.

 

 

 

What are some examples of item scams?

 

 

 

Misleading players by providing false or inaccurate information, for your own personal gain.

 

 

 

(knowledge base)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that's what luring is: lying to someone (telling them you will buy their item, etc. when you really don't intend to) and aiming to kill them for your own personal gain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

simple, no it's not acceptable

[rynecm]

A solution to the problem within the rules might be as simple as out scamming the scammer. Simply have your friends ready to ambush the lurer(s) before you "fall" for the lure. My much younger brother got suckered and lost a million to one of these guys. Maybe self-policing by some of the clans out there might help. Someone in each of the clans could be set to receive complaints of luring or attempted lures and mass those clans to look for the offender in the wildy while he(they) are conducting their next scam. As for me, I always "fall" for these lures....of course I have nothing on and only 3 or 4 gold coins in my inventory. :wink: If possible I will go unarmed into the wildy and become the bane of these lurers existence. I enjoy it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure there are some flaws in my suggestions but these are just ideas to be discussed. Maybe there's a solution in there somewhere. As for luring, I think it should be a mutable offense if not a temporary ban. Maybe permanent for multiple repeat offenses.

[lordmkl]

This is a small list of a few of the PL that I have seen lure PL out in the wild and every time it was a lie.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: No Naming Names at all lie or no lie ~ QueenValerie Global Tip It Mod

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and the worst one is

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I was lured I lost a good amount of money and of items. At the time, I did not know what luring was. I was trying to help a fellow PL who asked for help (eatmy23s). Now I do know what it is. I think that Jagex need to make a decision on this one way or the other. If they decide to make it legal then maybe they need to put a warning on the main page and in the wild. Maybe move the wild back a bit in some areas. If it is decide that it is illegal then they need to enforce it. I think that Jagex it partly to blame since I have seen a lot of PL get taken in to the wild for a ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅDROP PARTYÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ