Is luring an acceptable practice?

[zach312]

It doesn't matter if it warns you of course it does, they make it look innocent, so you go in only if you're really that stupid. They TRY to get you to go in, and that's all that matters. Luring is a very tricky scam to notice at first again, only if you're somewhat slow, and there's no reason it should be ignored only PvP (duel arena, wilderness) is ignored.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My comments in red.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am in no way condoning luring as a practice, but if you're honestly stupid or gullible enough to, for example, bring expensive items into the wilderness because some stranger asks you to, you don't deserve the responsibility that entails owning said items. Of course that only applies to duel arena "luring" and wilderness luring, and also anywhere that gives a warning before you enter the area, such as the Waterbirth Island dungeon. Anywhere outside the wilderness (WITHOUT a warning) is completely illegal and should be considered item scamming, and then properly dealt with.

[baalboy5]

I believe luring is a scam but not a item scam it's a lie, thats what it is a LIE. And how can you take advange of someone's brain? that like saying to a special ed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'giving him a knife and saying who's special?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it not right or even good judgement, it taking money away from none porpared people smart or dumb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A sweet deal makes the person feel a rush, likes I gotta buy this befor someone else. Lack of smarts yea but taking advange of that is right and wrong of where you sell it

[godofheaven4]

Luring is just another scam tactic loser players like to do. And, yes, it is technically against the rules for Runescape, but so far, I have seen no action that Jagex has taken against them. Luring is just wrong. They do it to alot of "noobs" (sorry, but I think it's an appropriate word since they just got in the game for the first time.). the fact is, if they lure people, some people will stop playing, because they lost their hard earned money (Or items). This will decrease the amount of players, (even though it will take a long time) and possibly make Jagex lose some money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lurers should be banned, or given at least a good amount of marks, so they can be muted, to never lure again. \

[Mithril_Max]

I personally have lured twice, but this was before i knew what it was and how badly the community looked at it. The first time my clan brought me pking and they "lured" a level 60 to us... this was also the time i learned what a "death dot" was... the second time my friends got me to go luring and we killed a few level 40 rangers... on topic though i go both ways in this discussion, I think luring should not be bannable by any means. I really dont see how anyone could ever be tricked into doing anything in the wild besides pking/various side-quests. however if this was a new player who didnt quite know about the wild and the scum that inhabit it (not talking about pkers in general just some people there that do things that should be looked down upon... i guess luring would be one but im not going all the way on this statement) they could easily be tricked. I know theres a warning at the beginning but a lurer could reassure them by saying something along the lines of "dont worry i know a secret route" or maybe "its ok I got your back" then that would be something im against... let this roll around in your mind a bit while i get back to my new membership!

[Lythiaren]

You people... You actually think it's an acceptable practice? You make me sick. Individual members of Jagex staff may have different opinions, but the rules technically forbid it. The staff has to tread carefully with it, however, because by making a rule specifically against it, they would be adding a law to what was intended to be the lawless wild.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"You deserve it" and "you're stupid for falling for that" are NOT good reasons. They're a fool's excuse to justify this kind of scam. So only stupid people get lured into the wilderness and lose things in what they THOUGHT was a legitimate trade? So if you get excited about getting a good deal or finally getting that cool item you wanted, and then stop thinking rationally out of excitement, that makes you a moron? Okay, let's look at it this way:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Children are (generally) less knowledgeable than adults. Comparatively, they are less intelligent. As you would lure someone (edit: someone you believe is "stupid" or "less intelligent") into the wilderness and kill them for their things, consider this. Would you tell a child that you would give them a coveted toy in exchange for some of their lunch money if they came to the corner of the playground, and then instead of making the fair trade, beat them senseless so you could loot their pockets while they were down?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By your reasoning, the kid in this scenario DESERVED it because they shouldn't trust strangers. They're STUPID because they TRUSTED you. But you know what? You just assaulted a kid and stole his money. That makes you a bully. That makes you lower than the scum that accumulates on your shoes as you walk away with your ill-gotten gains. You should be ashamed of yourself. Think of the poor kid.

[swampjedi]

Lythiaren, I appreciate your passion - but you forget that the scammers are probably kids too. They're immature, and I don't mean that as an excuse for the behavior.

[magician_xy]

Luring is one of those evil things that should be allowed in full RPG style game, but for it to be fair we need some sort of penalty system, so that people who decide to go evil road, could be punished inside game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this is actually a pretty good idea. Generally speaking, there is a penalty system for being "evil". (PKing is "evil", right? The penalty there is that someone can sneak up on you and kill you, resulting your loss of expensive weaponry.) However, what happens when a person lures? The victim complains: "[insert name here] is a scammer!" After that, no one trades with that person... for about an hour. Then the lurer is right back to where he started, scamming whoever he can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll admit, I like being the bad guy (PKing - not luring) every now and then. However, when I act evil, I know there are consequences for those actions. I think some consequences should be put in place for luring, too. A blacklist idea was mentioned earlier in the thread...Maybe whenever you trade with a blacklisted person, a warning pops up?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In any case, I just want to restate that I firmly believe luring is completely legal, but also completely unethical. I mean, geez, if you're gonna PK somebody, do it honestly in the Wildy of in the Duel Arena; don't hide in the shadows and be a weeny who picks on the (no offense to anyone) slower people.

[Lythiaren]

Immature or not, it's not acceptable. Being able to trick someone with words and then smash their face in to take their stuff isn't smart, it's dishonest and dishonorable. Honesty and honour are things that kids should've been taught at the age of five.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, maybe not honour in depth, but at least the moral base supporting honour. Like "tricking people for your own gain is WRONG so don't do it".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People who try to justify this kind of thing are like that eBay scammer who got owned by Judge Judy.

[zach312]

Immature or not, it's not acceptable. Being able to trick someone with words and then smash their face in to take their stuff isn't smart, it's dishonest and dishonorable. Honesty and honour are things that kids should've been taught at the age of five.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, maybe not honour in depth, but at least the moral base supporting honour. Like "tricking people for your own gain is WRONG so don't do it".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People who try to justify this kind of thing are like that eBay scammer who got owned by Judge Judy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure no one here said it was a good thing to do. And in your previous example about a child being beaten senseless because he trusted someone, yes I think the child is stupid. Know why? Because that's the kind of world we live in today. No one can truly be trusted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also in response to the eBay scams, I also say that those people are stupid. Just because you see a good deal doesn't mean you have to be an idiot and just go for it before finding out all the facts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a general maxim: If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

[hambone883]

I think swanpjedi said it very well:

 

 

 

The whole point of much of law is to defend the weak, the infirm, and yes, the stupid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no such thing as "this is legal because you're a moron if you fall for it." Tell that to the conmen and scammers in white-collar prisons. Sure, the one being scammed shares part of the blame, but it doesn't absolve the scammer of moral responsibility. I'm somewhat shocked that this attitude is so prevalent on this thread. I expect that you would be somewhat ticked if you got mugged and the cops said "It's your fault for being in this part of town, so we're not going to press charges."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my personal opinion, luring as defined above is item scamming, pure and simple. It's lying to another player for your own personal gain - so rule two directly applies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also think wolfboy is a disgrace to moderators. For having such a stance on luring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To continue I think Jagex should be more responsible. Their stance on player luring says its okay to take advantage of people who are more ignorant then your self. Jagex has a strong and wide influence on many young people and it would be good of them to set a better moral example.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I applaude Tip.it on its mature stance towards runescape.

[Zarfay]

 

erkid"]

 

Define luring, if you would?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tricking players too trade people in the wilderness while somebody else kills them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds bannable to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see nothing wrong with luring due to the fact that only a complete idiot falls for a lurer's trap. I mean even if you don't realize your on your way to the wild you should notice the huge sign in the middle of your screen saying "Warning you are about to enter the wilderness other players can attack you." Personnaly i don't lure but if you can do it succesfully i don't see a problem with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i was just looking through from when i posted this morning and when i saw this i nearly gagged in laughter at your ignorance because - not every one is as smart as you in this game im sure there was once a time when you didn't know what luring was just like many other players and the fact that you expect everyone else does is pure ignorance because when i was lured i had heard of it briefly but didn't go into it if i had known like i do now i wouldn't have been scammed so shut up and learn to respect other people who don't know as much as you do in the game because as i said before - pure ignorance

[Soma2035]

HEY GUYS LOOK AT THIS!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

luring is fun, and THIS PIC proves its not against the rules!! (as it was posed by a J-Mod.) For anyone who thought that it is rule breaking, one word to you.. OWNED! hehe

 

 

 

I support luring 100% (insert pretty button here) >.<

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have a nice day!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This proves NOTHING. There have also been pictures of other mods saying that luring IS against the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All that means is that Jagex isn't sure themselves. And it's still safer not to lure because if Jagex isn't sure, one mod may decide to ban you for it. even if others say it's okay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And finally as I stated before and I WILL state again, Mod Paul himself, probably the second "most important" mod being the co-owner of runescape, declared openly that trade lures WERE a violation of rule 2 at the height of the Oziach lure. He posted it clearly on the rants forum on RSOF as an answer to all the complaints and debates. I do not have a picture because I didn't use TIF much at that time and didn't know how to post screenies anyways so I figured it wouldn't matter, but he DID post it there.

[sir_me47]

i think luring is as perfectly legal as making a pure is. in both cases your deceiving a player. luring your deceiving a player into the wild thus getting you a large amount of cash, item, or rare. with a pure your deceiving a player to get you to fight them, take a pure obby mauler for instance. they think your a normal combat level i.e. you can have 20 attack with 90 str and 80 hp (not quite sure about the hp its probably way high for that kind of stats) and still be around 55 combat. if thats not a kind of deception then luring is certainly not, btw with that str and a obby maul you can max around 31. there fore i dont think luring is illegal.

 

 

 

*edit you can actually max 32*

[xarikadox]

Since so many people are saying that "stupid people deserve to be lured", I thought I should bring up a similar real life situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In New York, a young teenage woman goes to a party. Afterwards, she decides to walk home, alone, at midnight. On the way home she is sexually assaulted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously, she was being foolish in going home alone at night in a potentially dangerous area. To tell the truth, she may have deserved being attacked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whether or not she is at fault however, the rapist will most likely still be punished. The law punishes him for committing an unlawful act.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A similar case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A person brought a PS2 in the car with him to play on his cars television. He leaves it in clear sight when he stops at a fast food restaurant for lunch. While buying his burger, a man breaks into the car and steals the PS2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it was the persons fault because he made a stupid choice in leaving his goods out in the open for others to see. Breaking a window and walking away with a $150 piece of equipment is quite a temptation, especially for those not quite wealthy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But does that mean it was legal for the thief to break in?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whether or not a person DESERVED to be lured is inconsequential. The law, or in this case, the rules, should be enforced, whether or not the victim was "deserving".

[xarikadox]

i think luring is as perfectly legal as making a pure is. in both cases your deceiving a player. luring your deceiving a player into the wild thus getting you a large amount of cash, item, or rare. with a pure your deceiving a player to get you to fight them, take a pure obby mauler for instance. they think your a normal combat level i.e. you can have 20 attack with 90 str and 80 hp (not quite sure about the hp its probably way high for that kind of stats) and still be around 55 combat. if thats not a kind of deception then luring is certainly not, btw with that str and a obby maul you can max around 31. there fore i dont think luring is illegal.

 

 

 

*edit you can actually max 32*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not all pures are designed to fool people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know for a fact that I never kept 1 defence to surprise people. In fact if they ask I'm perfectly willing to tell them my other stats.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many pures keep their levels low because otherwise they can only fight higher level people in the wilderness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no deception because you are not actually saying anything. Anything they do is based on a PRESUMPTION.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's say I'm walking around wearing a green p hat. And WITHOUT ASKING ME, you hand me 500k and tell me to hold on to it for you for five minutes. And I leave with your money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's no "deception" there. You ASSUMED I was rich and would be willing to help you with this, or not care about the money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's the same way with pures. If you ASSUME they are weaker than you because of their combat level, it is not their fault.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I even know pures who only keep 1 defence because they dislike the idea of the skill all together.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Luring and pures are absolutely, 100% totally different issues.

[sir_me47]

 

i think luring is as perfectly legal as making a pure is. in both cases your deceiving a player. luring your deceiving a player into the wild thus getting you a large amount of cash, item, or rare. with a pure your deceiving a player to get you to fight them, take a pure obby mauler for instance. they think your a normal combat level i.e. you can have 20 attack with 90 str and 80 hp (not quite sure about the hp its probably way high for that kind of stats) and still be around 55 combat. if thats not a kind of deception then luring is certainly not, btw with that str and a obby maul you can max around 31. there fore i dont think luring is illegal.

 

 

 

*edit you can actually max 32*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not all pures are designed to fool people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know for a fact that I never kept 1 defence to surprise people. In fact if they ask I'm perfectly willing to tell them my other stats.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many pures keep their levels low because otherwise they can only fight higher level people in the wilderness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no deception because you are not actually saying anything. Anything they do is based on a PRESUMPTION.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's say I'm walking around wearing a green p hat. And WITHOUT ASKING ME, you hand me 500k and tell me to hold on to it for you for five minutes. And I leave with your money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's no "deception" there. You ASSUMED I was rich and would be willing to help you with this, or not care about the money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's the same way with pures. If you ASSUME they are weaker than you because of their combat level, it is not their fault.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I even know pures who only keep 1 defence because they dislike the idea of the skill all together.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Luring and pures are absolutely, 100% totally different issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not all pures tell the truth about there stats so should they get reported for item scamming?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and yeah i'm not that stupid you know when a pures a pure but you dont know what kind of stats they have unless you use the high scores, but they might wander off by the time your done looking especially the ones with the unpredictable amounts of spaces in there names.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and anyways if there keeping there defence at 1 there probably intending to pk or turn there account into a pking account...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*edit* and yeah a lot of pures are ment to keep there stats down to fool people into thinking i can take this "noob" and then they completely get owned and there wondering how did that "noob" win that fight???

 

 

 

then they go to the highscores and look up there stats and :shock: 94 mage 75 range and 80 hp and there combat is somewhere around 66 :ohnoes: is this not deceiving the guy into attacking him and making him lose his items?

[Anonymous256]

I actually have a frend who lures. he was lvl 58 last i checked with 82 mage. he uses ice blitz. He asked jagex if luring was bannable and this is what they sed:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you promise to buy/sell/give another player an item(s), lead them into the wilderness and then kill them, then that is bannable. However, if another player lures someone into the wilderness and you kill them, then that is just a clean pk.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i used to (i dont anymore) lure with him, both me and my brother were very good at it, with my brother or i getting the person into the wilderness and my frend killing him/her. if need be, both my brother and i would work on the one person, one on priv chat pretending to be a buyer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

there are a few things i learned about luring:

 

 

 

its best to lure as a 'seller' rather than a 'buyer', as they will keep their best items.

 

 

 

the only way to be a good lurer is to be lucky. most people (especially rich people) just arent gullible enough to be lured. for example, i once got the equivalent of about a 9m lure (some was items). it turns out the victim was breaking rule 6; his 6 year old brother was playing at the time.

 

 

 

In my days, i managed to think of an unprovable, and therefore unbannable lure, however i will not post it here or anywhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thats all i hav to say on the topic of luring.

[anthony7489]

its kinda disturbing how many people here actually agree with luring. Can I ask if these people were the ones who were bullied at school and cant take it out on anyone because they are just to weak to do anything about it? Could this be the reason they want to drag people into the wild to ruin all their hard work? Seriously if you get lured sure you shouldve known better but they are still mean little bullies who deserve everything they get for the misery they cause.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to point out that these people use loopholes in JaGEx's rules to get around the rules, much like a lawyer does in a courtroom and to be honest i don't agree with those weasels either.

[nadir]

i think the spirit of the game is:

 

 

 

pk for fun (not for cash/items)

 

 

 

merchant for cash

 

 

 

skill for smaller amounts of cash and highscores (or faster by spending

 

 

 

cash and getting faster in the highscores)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

deceivers (lurers, trade scammers, etc) break the spirit of the game,

 

 

 

make the comunity worse

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the deceivers are learning from this game only this: "NOT to hard work,

 

 

 

that is for n00bs. i deceive stupid people, and it's entirely their fault"

 

 

 

the bad thing is that they are going to do that in real life too

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you guys talk in vain about any "moral", "honor", "law", "rules",

 

 

 

"right/wrong". those deceivers are also deceiving themselves

 

 

 

in thinking "it's not a bad thing, because i feel good afterwards,

 

 

 

and rich too", so they are NOT going to listen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the deceivers don't care about having a happier comunity, they only care

 

 

 

about having all those milions

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and no matter how good some rules/laws may be, some people will

 

 

 

always try to take an unfair advantage by avoiding them

[andopolis]

 

 

 

If you promise to buy/sell/give another player an item(s), lead them into the wilderness and then kill them, then that is bannable. However, if another player lures someone into the wilderness and you kill them, then that is just a clean pk.

 

 

 

IMO it should be bannable if there is any dialogue between the PKer and the Luring player.

 

 

 

This is something that can probably be checked by Jagex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Deception is still deception (and is unacceptable), irrespective of the perceived intelligence of the hapless victim.

[PhelimReagh]

Luring and any kind of scamming is not in Jagex's best interest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

About 2-3 years ago I discovered Runescape, played a little, completely naive and in general a good person. At that point, I had no idea that RS was populated in large part by scamming and deceitful little sociopaths.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I worked for quite some time building myself up to certain level, building up my skills, accumulating gp by mining, smithg, fishing, etc., and selling to the general store. I eventually could afford full black, and bought it. It was many, many hours worth of work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have no doubt that there are/were thousands like I was then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I one day went to Varrock, and someone of a higher level than me said "let's go kill monster in the Wilderness, you get much better drops."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I said sure, and followed him out there. I clicked through the warnings, and was very nervous. I knew what I was doing and knew I was taking a risk. We got deep enough into the wilderness without seeing any monsters that I figured something was wrong, and turned to run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just as he began maging me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I died quickly, and suddenly appeared in Lumby with a only few pieces of my armor left. I actually had no idea that you lost all your items when you died.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was disheartened, logged out, and that was the end of me and Runescape. All my effort

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A year or two afterwards I went looking for a similar game to Runescape (actually, similar to Warcraft), but being unable to find anything that I couldn't sample for free online LIKE Runescape, I decided to give it another try.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This time, cynical and untrusting, I stuck it out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But basically, Runescape lost me as a customer for a long, long time because of a lurer. Sure, I "should have known better", and I was very, very nervous, knowing I was taking a risk. Some responsibility lies with me for not being cynical and untrusting when I first started playing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But is that what you need? A community of the cynical and untrusting, facing off with scamming and luring sociopaths?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God, the more I think about that above statement, I'm wonder why I play Runescape :-k

[gedderz]

I think itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s sad that this has become a major issue in the game at all! Its just people who want a quick way to get money / rare items etc rather than actually playing the game. Its meant to be a game to have fun but when people starts scamming, luring and just generally deceiving players and doing in moral things it makes the game that little less nice to play when ur having to keep in mind ok watch out there not tricking me!

[skreenname]

you gotta be pretty slow to not notice the warning on the "green" bob shirt..."Bob says, Never trade in the wilderness!" :lol:

[anthony7489]

Nadir you are absolutely right these "people" are not going to listen to talk of honour, morals or rules as they have none.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gedderz true i am really disheartened that this has become such an issue and that we have to discuss it. I have to admit that if people were luring for "sport" ie they went for an unarmed person or some1 who is 1 iteming then i really wouldent be too upset. But because people lose things that they werent really prepared to risk it really is an issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would we be talking about it if people werent losing their items? Probably, but the dialogue would most likely be that it is acceptable on the most part. Anything that hurts another player, makes them lose anything of even the slightest value, or breaks their game should not be accepted. If i was to walk in the wilderness with my most expensive items willingly and not to trade, i would say fair play to a Pk-er it is the fact that we don't want to go into the wildy that makes it so wrong and makes me want to remove heads. :twisted:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the way maybe i should find some other way to vent my anger

[anthony7489]

you gotta be pretty slow to not notice the warning on the "green" bob shirt..."Bob says, Never trade in the wilderness!" :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have 1? I want!! Meet me at wildy lever and ill give u 1m for it! :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total joke but this is what happens to some players and others fall for it. Yes you would have to be stupid to trade something that says not to trade in the wilderness in the wilderness, but that would be my fault for taking advantage of your stupidity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, I NEVER wildy trade or trade even close to the wildy because it causes too much misery.